Opened Bangkok Bank Account, tried to X-fer from US, trial ACH deposits failed

[hereforgood]

I have a account in the States with US Bank that allows me to transfer to BKBank NY 1250.00 Maximum every 30 days for a flat rate of 3 Dollars. It reaches my Thailand BKbank account in 3 business days been doing this for awhile with no problems

[moontang]

mine charges zero.

[hereforgood]

great next there will be a member that gets paid when he transfers ?

[trademarkedTM]

9 minutes ago, hereforgood said:

great next there will be a member that gets paid when he transfers ?

?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, hereforgood said:

I have a account in the States with US Bank that allows me to transfer to BKBank NY 1250.00 Maximum every 30 days for a flat rate of 3 Dollars. It reaches my Thailand BKbank account in 3 business days been doing this for awhile with no problems

 

This is the well discussed method here of a domestic ACH transfer from a U.S. bank to BKKBank's New York branch and onward to Thailand -- a current method that appears to be coming to an end.

 

[Pib]

Might be best to have a backup method for transfer of funds to Bangkok Bank (or any Thai bank) simply because banking policies change....what worked well before may no longer work well or not at all. 

 

Money transfer services such as Transferwise might be the answer for some folks.   With Transferwise you can transfer funds to "any Thai bank" at the same cost.

 

Based on my research over the past few months I don't think U.S. folks will find a money transfer service better than Transferwise when fully considering "both exchange rate and fees...total baht posted to your Thai baht."   Repeat, after the exchange rate and fee dust settles how much baht got posted to your Thai bank account at the lowest total cost to you.  Gotta fully price-out exchange rate "and" fees.

 

This morning around 11am before beginning my chores for the day I did another quick comparison of using Transferwise and the Bangkok Bank ACH transfer method...see which one puts the most baht in your account after the exchange rate and fee dust settles. 

 

I used the exchange rate in affect at Bangkok Bank and Transferwise at a little before 11am this morning.   Usually, the Transferwise exchange rate is around 0.2 baht/dollar better than the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers, but today during the time I was comparing there was only around a 0.1 baht/dollar difference so the Bangkok Bank ACH faired better for most amounts compared in below Excel snapshot. 

 

Usually the Bangkok Bank ACH method does not start beating out Transferwise until around the $3K to $4K transfer ballpark; but today due to the smaller exchange rate difference Bangkok Bank started winning around the $2K ballpark.  By winning I mean posting the most baht to your account when fully considering exchange rate and fees.

 

If you usually transfer around $2K or less then Transferwise is probably going to win every time, but beginning somewhere in the $2K to $4K transfer ballpark depending on exchange rate the Bangkok Bank ACH is probably going to win every time.

 

12 July 18 Morning Comparison of Transferwise and Bangkok Bank ACH

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, Schwab also has relatively modest fees for their wire transfers, including international ones. And even better rates if you happen to have a large balance with them.

 

Specifically, $25 fee for either domestic or intl wire transfers. And, if you have a $100,000+ account balance with them, you get three free wires per quarter, domestic or intl.

 

 

Need to make a correction to my above post re Schwab and their international wire transfers.  And it just goes to show that Thailand customer service reps are not the only ones who get things blatantly wrong.

 

I was talking with Schwab's transfers department today, and when I mentioned the info the regular customer service rep had told me in chat some months back, the transfers specialist today said that info was partially wrong.

 

In Schwab's case, for clients with accounts exceeding $100K value, the 3 free wire transfers per quarter applies only to DOMESTIC wire transfers done via the Schwab website, not international ones that also can be initiated thru their website. The transfers specialist clarified that their international wire transfers fee would be $25 per, regardless of one's account balance.

[croftrobin]

By far the best option is Transferwise.

 

If you use this link you will get a free transfer up to 500 pounds or about $650 :

 

https://transferwise.com/u/juliani

[moontang]

21 hours ago, hereforgood said:

great next there will be a member that gets paid when he transfers ?

nope, but about 15 free roundtrips to the US...60 US to go home on ANA, 20 to come back on JAL.  Just for getting their credit cards, and using them a small amount.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hope I can provide an update here on what's going on with the current Bangkok Bank domestic U.S. ACH transfer system thru their New York branch to Thailand.

 

After going thru some lengths and efforts to get answers from bank staff here in Thailand (all unsuccessful), I finally managed today to communicate with a staff person in BKKB's New York branch who provided the following information.  Please bear in mind, this is one BKKB contact, and hasn't been confirmed beyond that as yet:

 

1. My source advised that U.S. customers right now who try to create NEW ACH links between their U.S. bank accounts and the BKKB New York branch WILL NOT be able to do so any longer. My source said the bank has cut off those new ACH link connections, because of the coming changes to their system required by U.S. federal banking regulations.

 

2. However, my source also advised that U.S. customers with EXISTING ACH links between their U.S. bank accounts and the BKKB New York branch should be able to continue using those for normal ACH transfers as they have done in the past, perhaps for a few more months. No specific cutoff date has been set, but it is likely to be sometime toward the end of the calendar year, perhaps September to December timeframe.

 

3. Part of the reason for an uncertain cutoff date is BKKB has not yet settled on what kind of system, if any, they will be able to enact to successfully replace the current domestic ACH system. The email Pib received from BKKB above talking about the IAT method apparently is out-of-date, as my source said BKKB later realized that U.S. banks don't typically make available IAT transfers for their consumer customers. Thus BKKB has had to continue looking for some other solution, and not found it yet.

 

4. Lastly, apart from the ACH transfers, the New York branch also serves as the gateway for U.S. government Social Security payments that end up in people's BKKB Thailand accounts via direct deposit. My source indicated that those current Social Security direct deposit arrangements should continue un-affected, because the feds include in their sending information the extra accountholder details now required for international funds transfers.   Whether that same situation applies to any other direct deposit senders probably depends on the individual paying entity and how their payments are configured.

 

Hope the above is helpful for those interested in this topic.  If I get any further info, I'll of course pass it along here.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Hank Gunn]

Thanks TallGuy, that's good info.

 

I really hope this methodology ("domestic" ACH transfer from a US Bank to a Thai BKKB acct. through the NY branch of BKKB) continues. I just set this all up a year ago after moving here for retirement. I did just successfully (about four-five days ago) transfer some funds from my US Bank (Charles Schwab checking acct.) to my Thai BKKB, so I'm hoping it will continue.

 

For those with a Schwab brokerage acct. you can do ATM withdrawals from your Schwab checking acct. debit card, anywhere in the world. They don't have any foreign transaction fees, and they refund all ATM fees at the end of each month. The obvious caveat to this methodology is the daily limit on ATM withdrawals, so for larger sums you'd have to do some planning I guess and do a series of withdrawals. (I did just that for the deposit on my new Ford truck.)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

Thanks TallGuy, that's good info.

 

I really hope this methodology ("domestic" ACH transfer from a US Bank to a Thai BKKB acct. through the NY branch of BKKB) continues. I just set this all up a year ago after moving here for retirement. I did just successfully (about four-five days ago) transfer some funds from my US Bank (Charles Schwab checking acct.) to my Thai BKKB, so I'm hoping it will continue.

 

 

It's going to be interesting to see how this BKKB NY process plays out.

 

The problem is, the U.S. feds these days want all kinds of accountholder details and info to be presented electronically as part of any international funds transfer, so they and/or the bank can scrutinize them for money laundering and other unsavory activities. Unfortunately, the current U.S. domestic ACH system is more limited in the info that gets sent along as part of transactions, fine for domestic, but apparently not nearly enough for international. Hence the regulatory crackdown.

 

For me, it's kind of hard to see how any of this is going to end up in a good place for current U.S. ACH users of BKKB NY. The current system is going away/ending, that much seems pretty clear. And there still will be, and always has been, the traditional international wire transfer available, though usually more expensive and can be complicated to initiate, depending on the sending institution.

 

So whether BKKB can find a way to thread the needle between the prying eyes of federal banking regulators on one side, and their U.S. customers seeking a convenient and reasonably priced international transfer method on the other side, remains to be seen.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

 

For me, it's kind of hard to see how any of this is going to end up in a good place for current U.S. ACH users of BKKB NY. The current system is going away/ending, that much seems pretty clear.

Amen Brother!!!!

Trial deposits to setup new ibanking ACH transfer links already being rejected by Bangkok Bank.

Transfers from established ibanking ACH transfer links still being accepted but the clock is surely clicking down to where they will also start being rejected by Bangkok Bank just like trial deposits.

Hopefully U.S. govt benefit payments such as social security, military retirement, etc., from U.S. govt agencies to a person's Bangkok Bank special Direct Deposit accounts will still be allowed since there is additional info associated with those transfers and accounts which may satisfy regulatory requirements/effectively meet transfer info requirements of an IAT.

[trademarkedTM]

I just did a Schwab wire to Bangkok Bank via the Swift code, but could I have done it via the Routing number, or is that only for ACH?  

 

 

[moontang]

routing number is for ACH.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

routing number is for ACH.

 

And Swift is for international wire transfers. I'm not sure about domestic U.S. transfers.

 

And the only routing number that exists for public use with BKKB is for their New York branch, since routing numbers/ABAs are strictly a U.S. banking thing.

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[trademarkedTM]

10 minutes ago, moontang said:

routing number is for ACH.

Oh ok, I ask because I have sent many wires to routing #'s (in the US)

 

edit: nevermind, i see response above

Edited July 15, 2018 by trademarkedTM

[Pib]

You can send funds via Domestic Wire (routing number used) or International Wire (SWIFT code used).

[watcharacters]

On 7/11/2018 at 10:59 PM, trademarkedTM said:

It's $100 to transfer $10,000 from transferwise.. hrmm...  It's probably only $50 for an international wire, and if I wire to the BKK bank NY routing number its probably considered a domestic wire at $30.  

 

Worst case I just make a Schwab withdrawl every day and walk over to the BKK bank deposit machine.  That will cost nothing but time. 

 

 

Did you give Schwab a transfer attempt @ $25.   unlimited amount.

[trademarkedTM]

5 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Did you give Schwab a transfer attempt @ $25.   unlimited amount.

it's pending now and they say it will be free, we'll see

[Pib]

Below fee snapshots from the Schwab pricing guide.  Talks 3 free "domestic" wire transfers per quarter for household with at least $100K balances.  Since it does not mention "international" wire transfers I must assume they are not free.    Please note the Thai bank 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) would still apply for incoming international transfers whether it arrives by Wire/SWIFT or ACH or carrier pigeon.

 

The pricing guide is in sync with what the Schwab rep told TallGuy in TallGuy's post #37....a partial quote from his post below.

 

Quote

In Schwab's case, for clients with accounts exceeding $100K value, the 3 free wire transfers per quarter applies only to DOMESTIC wire transfers done via the Schwab website, not international ones that also can be initiated thru their website. The transfers specialist clarified that their international wire transfers fee would be $25 per, regardless of one's account balance.

 

Snapshots for Schwab Pricing Guide

https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/agreements/schwab_pricing_guide_for_individual_investors.html

 

[trademarkedTM]

15 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Did you give Schwab a transfer attempt @ $25.   unlimited amount.

They told me twice in the last week that international would be free.  In a written conversation they stated that if I was still charged by accident they would remove it.  I'll post the results. 

[watcharacters]

10 minutes ago, Pib said:

Below fee snapshots from the Schwab pricing guide.  Talks 3 free "domestic" wire transfers per quarter for household with at least $100K balances.  Since it does not mention "international" wire transfers I must assume they are not free.    Please note the Thai bank 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) would still apply for incoming international transfers whether it arrives by Wire/SWIFT or ACH or carrier pigeon.

 

The pricing guide is in sync with what the Schwab rep told TallGuy in TallGuy's post #37....a partial quote from his post below.

 

 

Snapshots for Schwab Pricing Guide

https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/agreements/schwab_pricing_guide_for_individual_investors.html

 

 

 

Schwab has been known to waive the fee,  Pib

 

[zlodnick]

A few months ago, my wife wanted to apply for ach transfers from our US bank (Morgan Stanley), to her BKKB account here. I have been using the ach transfers to our joint account here for a few years now and it was very easy to set up and there was no problem with the trial transfers.

 

 However, this time, the trial transfers would not go through. I called my US bank and explained the situation. They didn't know what the problem was, but emailed me a form where I checked the box saying it was for outgoing transfers only. My wife signed the form and emailed it back. It was approved, no trial transfers, and she successfully made a transfer the next day.

 

Not sure if that would work now, but did a few months ago.

[Pib]

Above is another example that proves Bangkok Bank NY has cutoff the flow of "trial deposits" which are used by many U.S. banks to setup an ibanking ACH transfer link....this cutoff seems to have happened around the Apr 18 time frame based on info contained in other/this thread from folks experiencing the same problem from their U.S. banks.    When the trial deposits are rejected by the NY branch a person's bank can not/will not approve the link which means the person can not do an actual transfer.

 

However, if a person's bank also allows alternate methods to setup an ACH ibanking transfer link such as mailing-in a form with VOIDed check attached (many banks still offer this method) or setting of the ibanking transfer link as Deposit Only (vs Deposit & Withdrawal) where trial deposits are "not" used (some banks also offer this method) then the transfer link will setup.   In these cases the bank you want to send/deposit money to such as Bangkok Bank NY is not involved in the transfer link setup/validation; only your Sending bank.  And all your Sending bank really wants to finalized the transfer link setup is being absolutely sure you have the routing and account number correct and it's indeed you establishing the transfer link.

 

Once the transfer link is setup a person can still accomplish ACH transfers using the Bangkok Bank NY branch routing because Bangkok Bank has not starting blocking actual ACH transfers "yet."   Or at least based on some posts, actual transfers were still getting through as of a few weeks ago.  Only trial deposits are being blocked at this time.   

 

By actual transfers I mean where a person already has the ACH transfer link established with their U.S. bank and then sends X-dollars like a $1000, $5000, etc.    An actual transfer is not to be confused with a "trial deposits" transfer which is coded differently in the ACH file format which makes it easy for Bangkok Bank NY to catch as it tries to flow through them.  

 

Time will tell when actual ACH transfers may also be blocked if not transmitted in the "International ACH Transfer" (IAT) format by our sending back.....or Bangkok Bank NY comes up with an alternate method which satisfies the U.S. govt requirements regarding the info that must be contained in transfers leaving the U.S.   

 

And no one needs to waste their time contacting their Sending bank asking can they transfer funds in IAT format as IAT is pretty much only used in some cooperate transfers for foreign payment of goods/services, foreign payroll, etc.  For the typical retail account the common man has only Domestic or International Wire transfers, SWIFT transfers, or Domestic ACH transfers will be available.    International Wire/SWIFT transfers will reach your Bangkok Bank account no problem as such transfers include the additional transfer info required by U.S. Treasury Dept regulations...the same info that would be included in an IAT. 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

Schwab has been known to waive the fee,  Pib

 

 

It certainly seems like either A] their various reps are very confused or ignorant about just what their policies are, or B] they may well have flexibility to waive or cancel the fee upon request.

 

This situation reminds me of another parallel example where you have the Fidelity website that says they'll charge a 1% foreign currency transaction on foreign use of their debit card, but member users here repeatedly have posted and documented that their Fidelity ATM withdrawals in Thailand don't incur the 1% fee..

 

All I know is, if Schwab has it as a policy for the $100K crowd, that's great. But if it involves having to verbally request a fee waiver every time I might need to do a foreign wire, I'd be less sanguine about that.

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

However, if a person's bank also allows alternate methods to setup an ACH ibanking transfer link such as mailing-in a form with VOIDed check attached (many banks still offer this method) or setting of the ibanking transfer link as Deposit Only (vs Deposit & Withdrawal) where trial deposits are "not" used (some banks also offer this method) then the transfer link will setup.

 

 

Pib, as you mention, some U.S. institutions do allow using a voided check from the other institution you want to connect to as a means of verifying/creating the ACH link. Schwab used to offer that, maybe even still does.

 

But I'm not sure what relevance that has to people looking to create new ACH links from their U.S. home bank to BKKB NY, because no one's running around with paper checks from BKKB imprinted with the NY branch's routing number and their Thai BKKB account number that they could provide to their home bank.

 

On the other hand, as you also note, there also is a minority of U.S. banks that will allow ACH account linking without requiring trial deposits so long as the link is a SEND only one, which is all you can do with BKKB NY anyway. That method is relevant to the BKKB situation. But in my experience, these days, trial deposits are required more often than not.

 

 

[Ahab]

I have had zero issues transferring money from my Navy Federal Credit Union account to my Bangkok Bank account through the NYC routing number. I just sent $2000 USD the other day. Same set up as before, no changes, nor issues.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Ahab said:

I have had zero issues transferring money from my Navy Federal Credit Union account to my Bangkok Bank account through the NYC routing number. I just sent $2000 USD the other day. Same set up as before, no changes, nor issues.

 

You're obviously not reading, or having comprehension problems.

 

All that's been reported here is that attempted NEW links to BKKB are being denied/rejected these days.

 

and, that a cutoff to ACH transfers for people with EXISTING links is coming, probably later this year.

 

None of that would have stopped your or anyone else's BKKB NY transfer today or tomorrow or in the immediate future as long as they had an existing link between their two banks.

 

It's down the road beyond that that's going to be the change and potential problem.

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[joealx]

Was your name In the US bank the same name with Bangkok Bank? That could be the problem.

 

trademarkedTM

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Posted Wednesday at 09:29 PM

I recently opened my first Thai bank account at Bangkok Bank, a standard savings account.  In the US I use Wells Fargo and added a non-Wells Fargo account for ACH transfers, with the New York Bangkok Bank routing number.  In order to do this it requires two test deposits for verification, and then later withdrawals them.  After 3 days Wells Fargo sent me a notification that the ACH transfer failed, but only vague information was provided and they cannot tell me if this was a Wells Fargo problem or a Bangkok Bank problem.  The only idea that Wells Fargo could come up with is that possibly the Bangkok Bank account does not allow debits (needed to take back the Wells Fargo test money).  

 

Any ideas?