UK police find source of Novichok nerve agent in small bottle

[Morch]

 

@manarak

 

Would have been a tad more believable if your supposedly "open minded" alternative explanation would not be as focused on deflecting potential Russian (or Russian state) involvement. Like other posters going on about "rejecting" mainstream (or mainstream media, or western government propaganda), the alternative on offer seems to be parroting talking points often found on either pro-Russian or anti-Western venues.

[manarak]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@manarak

 

Would have been a tad more believable if your supposedly "open minded" alternative explanation would not be as focused on deflecting potential Russian (or Russian state) involvement. Like other posters going on about "rejecting" mainstream (or mainstream media, or western government propaganda), the alternative on offer seems to be parroting talking points often found on either pro-Russian or anti-Western venues.

 

It is quite obvious that the only "alternative explanations" acceptable to you are such which do also incriminate Russia.

 

And to come back to my former claim that UK government was also at the "forefront of telling bullshit", I just remembered what Boris Johnson said about the nerve agent originating from Russia, when in fact the lab was unable to identify the origin.

 

I'm not rejecting the story pushed by mainstream media, I think it is quite plausible, although some details don't fit 100%.

What I reject is considering it the only possible explanation!

 

I don't understand why discussing possible alternate scenarios is automatically being pro-Russian.

It's the kind of simplistic black-white rhetorics typically used when there is a political interest in "selling the story".

 

But this is an internet forum, not "Voice of America", so expect people to comment, ask questions and post their own opinion.

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, manarak said:

 

It is quite obvious that the only "alternative explanations" acceptable to you are such which do also incriminate Russia.

 

And to come back to my former claim that UK government was also at the "forefront of telling bullshit", I just remembered what Boris Johnson said about the nerve agent originating from Russia, when in fact the lab was unable to identify the origin.

 

I'm not rejecting the story pushed by mainstream media, I think it is quite plausible, although some details don't fit 100%.

What I reject is considering it the only possible explanation!

 

I don't understand why discussing possible alternate scenarios is automatically being pro-Russian.

It's the kind of simplistic black-white rhetorics typically used when there is a political interest in "selling the story".

 

But this is an internet forum, not "Voice of America", so expect people to comment, ask questions and post their own opinion.

 

 

What is obvious is that I do not accept your outlandish, far-fetched alternative explanation. That almost all of your alternative explanation are aimed at diverting blame from Russia, sorts of makes your "point" lame.

 

And coming back to the BS assertion that the UK government is at "forefront of telling bullshit", kinda doubt that quoting a single instance makes your case. There would need to be numerous similar instances, and their total should be compared with that of other governments. Since you're no about to and unable to do neither, your comment shall remain unsubstantiated.

 

I think there's a difference between trying to claim one alternative isn't the only one possible, and spewing a whole lot of far-fetched, unlikely "alternatives". The latter doesn't serve anything much other than muddying the waters. Yet to see a halfway credible "alternative" which doesn't rely on either counter-factual assertions and/or convulsed reasoning.

 

As for whining about the "pro-Russian" bit - explained in depth on several posts earlier. That you drop the "anti-west" part is rather telling, though. Whether one pushes such positions knowingly or not is of lesser relevance. Since most of the nonsense some post features on pro-Russian, anti-western venues, making the connection is rather obvious.

 

You're free to post you're opinions, and other posters are free to criticize them. What was your point?

 

[dick dasterdly]

19 hours ago, manarak said:

 

It is quite obvious that the only "alternative explanations" acceptable to you are such which do also incriminate Russia.

 

And to come back to my former claim that UK government was also at the "forefront of telling bullshit", I just remembered what Boris Johnson said about the nerve agent originating from Russia, when in fact the lab was unable to identify the origin.

 

I'm not rejecting the story pushed by mainstream media, I think it is quite plausible, although some details don't fit 100%.

What I reject is considering it the only possible explanation!

 

I don't understand why discussing possible alternate scenarios is automatically being pro-Russian.

It's the kind of simplistic black-white rhetorics typically used when there is a political interest in "selling the story".

 

But this is an internet forum, not "Voice of America", so expect people to comment, ask questions and post their own opinion.

 

"I don't understand why discussing possible alternate scenarios is automatically being pro-Russian.

It's the kind of simplistic black-white rhetorics typically used when there is a political interest in "selling the story".

 

Agree entirely, which brings us back to the uk demanding an explanation from russia after two civilians were affected - even though they were unable to provide any proof that russia was responsible for the first contamination, far less the second!

 

Some are prepared to believe anything that supports 'their cause', whilst others amongst us distrust all politicians, and so ask questions.

[dick dasterdly]

There are zero believable scenarios offered at the moment, which is why there is a debate on the topic.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I don't understand why discussing possible alternate scenarios is automatically being pro-Russian.

It's the kind of simplistic black-white rhetorics typically used when there is a political interest in "selling the story".

 

Agree entirely, which brings us back to the uk demanding an explanation from russia after two civilians were affected - even though they were unable to provide any proof that russia was responsible for the first contamination, far less the second!

 

Some are prepared to believe anything that supports 'their cause', whilst others amongst us distrust all politicians, and so ask questions.

 

The questions you ask are kinda leading. Most of your efforts are invested in spreading doubts about one-side's narrative, while giving the other a free-pass. Try harder. The false equivalency of "all politicians" doesn't make your "arguments" stronger.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

There are zero believable scenarios offered at the moment, which is why there is a debate on the topic.

 

BS.

There are actually some plausible scenarios. That you do not believe them, for unclear reasons, is another matter.

[ChouDoufu]

26 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The questions you ask are kinda leading. Most of your efforts are invested in spreading doubts about one-side's narrative, while giving the other a free-pass. Try harder. The false equivalency of "all politicians" doesn't make your "arguments" stronger.

one side has a narrative consisting of an evidence-free conspiracy theory.

the other side has no narrative, and needs none.

 

pointing out inconsistencies, false logic, and lack of evidence is warranted.   "trying harder" would mean fabricating one or more competing conspiracy theories.

 

but why bother?  you would not accept any explanation that did not blame russia.  don't understand why you would expect russia to provide an alternate theory that also holds putin responsible.

 

 

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

one side has a narrative consisting of an evidence-free conspiracy theory.

the other side has no narrative, and needs none.

 

pointing out inconsistencies, false logic, and lack of evidence is warranted.   "trying harder" would mean fabricating one or more competing conspiracy theories.

 

but why bother?  you would not accept any explanation that did not blame russia.  don't understand why you would expect russia to provide an alternate theory that also holds putin responsible.

 

 

 

You keep claiming there's no evidence, despite this not being the case. More like you reject what evidence is publicly available, and refuse to accept the notion that such cases are not normally fully exposed to public scrutiny. As for the "no-narrative" claim - there's quite a lot of insinuations alleging government conspiracy of one sort or another, and the arguments used bear similarity to those found on pro-Russian venues. 

 

Trying harder would be dropping the pretense of objectivity, and the apparent assumption that other posters do not recall previous posts from past topics. As for "fabricating" conspiracy theories, don't see you having much issues with these, so long as they are labeled "questioning the mainstream narrative" etc. This "position" would need some more effort as well to be half-believable.

 

I would accept (or at least, consider) explanations which do not rely on nonsense arguments or premises. For example, claims that I "expect Russia to provide an alternate theory that also holds Putin responsible"m are rejected. There wasn't anything of the sort suggested in my posts.

[Scott]

Conspiracy post and reply removed.  

[RuamRudy]

Sky News Breaking twitter account:

 

"Press Association reports a source with knowledge of the investigation says police are believed to have identified the suspected perpetrators of the Novishok nerve agent attack on former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia"

[Chomper Higgot]

Let’s see if this gets through the ‘Denial Glasses’ some folk are wearing.

 

https://apple.news/APMdiUyHOR0qt6DX3sHwBTg

[evadgib]

https://news.sky.com/story/suspected-perpetrators-of-skripal-novichok-attack-identified-11441349