I just finished a 48 hour intermittent fast (IF)

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I hope you or anyone else reading my past few posts will understand I'm not playing devil's advocate with you or nit-picking.  It might sounds as though what I'm saying is inconsequential but there is a HUGE difference between simple calorie-restriction diets, and diets based on reducing insulin levels; a night and day difference actually.  Statistically, one works well and the other does not work well at all.  I provided the documentation that makes that crystal-clear.

 

I've tried to explain it as simply as I can, and provided documentation to back up what I'm saying.  If one reads the links I posted, I don't see how they could disagree.  I mean, It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to grasp the essentials here if you look at it with an open mind and a genuine desire to understand the science instead of the the unfounded mis-information and half-truths. 

 

Simply put, long term success in dieting through caloric restriction without accounting for metabolic slowdown is doomed to fail; dieting through insulin reduction where metabolic slowdown is not significantly encountered offers the best chance of long-term success.  Believe it or not; that's your choice.

Statistically you are wrong, i have read meta studies and keto / low carb wins but only a little bit. Other diets do almost as well in fat loss. 

 

Metabolic slowdown occurs in all diets you might want to fool yourself that its not true but your going against basic science. The body adapts also to low carbs. 

 

Your pushing it with your carb fear sorry I agree to disagree.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK121566/

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by robblok

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Statistically you are wrong, i have read meta studies and keto / low carb wins but only a little bit. Other diets do almost as well in fat loss. 

 

Metabolic slowdown occurs in all diets you might want to fool yourself that its not true but your going against basic science. The body adapts also to low carbs. 

 

Your pushing it with your carb fear sorry I agree to disagree.

Read the study I posted.  It makes it very clear from a statistical standpoint that caloric restriction without taking into account the metabolic slowdown does not work (i.e.: that stupid TV show where people went on diets to loose the most weight; not one of them today is not overweight) .  You are free to believe what you want, but the science is very clear on how insulin works and if it is high, you will not be able to access stored fat for fuel.  It's not a matter of debate, it's simply a metabolic fact.  That's what insulin does; it is the hormonal switch that tells the body whether to store energy or use it.  If you have high levels of insulin, that is a signal for the energy to be stored as fat and no diet in the world is going to change that unless it address insulin levels.

Edited April 15, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Read the study I posted.  It makes it very clear from a statistical standpoint that caloric restriction without taking into account the metabolic slowdown does not work (i.e.: that stupid TV show where people went on diets to loose the most weight; not one of them today is not overweight) .  You are free to believe what you want, but the science is very clear on how insulin works and if it is high, you will not burn fat.  It's not a matter of debate, it's simply a metabolic fact.  That's what insulin does; it is the hormonal switch that tells the body whether to store energy or use it.  You have high levels of insulin...it will store it; it is as simple as that.

So my 25kg weight loss on a high carb diet was fiction. Mate I like you a lot but your carb fobic. You can lose fat on all diets and there is little difference between low carb and other diets. Sometimes it wins but not by much. So you should stop stating that you can't lose fat on other diets, its simply not true. You should read my studies too. 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/409791

Edited April 15, 2019 by robblok

[robblok]

For the record I was eating two carb loaded meals a day, musli in the morning and oats in the afternoon (sometimes i switched it) and salad in the evening. I got most of my energy from carbs. I lost 25 kg. That is a fact. 

 

I think you are overstating how long insulin stays elevated. You need a caloric deficit and weight will come off. Maybe low carb goes faster but other diets work too have worked always and will keep working too. 

 

I showed you the twinkie and mc donalds diet, they were certainly high in carbs and they still lost fat. So what is it you are trying to say. That these well documented tests are frauds ? 

 

I think you are simply overstating how long insulin works on the body and you see things to short term (hours instead of a full day). Yes during high insulin you can't burn fat. But the moment the insulin is low enough you burn fat when your in a caloric deficit. 

 

Your metabolism isnt as stupid as you think it is. 

[WaveHunter]

31 minutes ago, robblok said:

So my 25kg weight loss on a high carb diet was fiction. Mate I like you a lot but your carb fobic. You can lose fat on all diets and there is little difference between low carb and other diets. Sometimes it wins but not by much. So you should stop stating that you can't lose fat on other diets, its simply not true. You should read my studies too. 

I enjoy our sometimes spirited debates and I'm not offended when we both get a little hot under the collar, but I am NOT carbophobic.  For a long time I actually believed in carb-loading, and I still do when it comes to preparing for and recovering from intense sports activities, but I am talking science here with regard to loosing body fat, not performance athletics, and high insulin levels will not allow the body to access fat.  If you restrict calories, you are absolutely going to slow down metabolism because the body must maintain homeostasis.  Accordingly, by the 1st rule of thermodynamics, "calories in" must equal "calories out". The only way that can happen, if stored fats are not accessible is to slow down the metabolism. 

 

And stored fat can not be accessed when insulin levels are high  Insulin acts as a hormonal switch that tells the body whether to store or use energy.  It can not do both at the same time.  It is an "either/or" type thing.  If insulin is high, it will store energy as body fat.  It's the body's way of saying, "I've just had a big meal and have all the energy I need; put the rest away for later use".  If insulin is low, it is because the body needs energy, and it will therefore allow stored fat to be accessed as fuel.  It simply can NOT do both at the same time, nor will it allow stored energy to be accessed if there is not a need (i.e.: when insulin levels are high).  It would make no sense for it to do that!

 

So if your insulin level is not low enough, you will be completely incapable of accessing stored fat.  If you go on a calorie-restricted diet with high insulin levels, since "calories in" must equal "calories out", the only way this can happen is to slow down the metabolism.  The only way around this conundrum is to burn fat and that meaNS low insulin levels are required.

 

In all seriousness, If you lost 25kg of fat, then there were periods of time when your insulin levels had to have been low, probably from depleted glycogen stores as a result of weight lifting workouts perhaps.  All I know for certain is that it is impossible for the body to access stored body fat when insulin levels are high since the whole purpose of insulin is to control when the body stores or access energy.  That's it's main mission.

 

And congratulations BTW; I think you've added a new work to the dictionary...and I like it ...carbophobic... it has a nice ring to it ????

 

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

23 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I enjoy our sometimes spirited debates and I'm not offended when we both get a little hot under the collar, but I am NOT carbophobic.  For a long time I actually believed in carb-loading, and I still do when it comes to preparing for and recovering from intense sports activities, but I am talking science here with regard to loosing body fat, not performance athletics, and high insulin levels will not allow the body to access fat.  If you restrict calories, you are absolutely going to slow down metabolism because the body must maintain homeostasis.  Accordingly, by the 1st rule of thermodynamics, "calories in" must equal "calories out". The only way that can happen, if stored fats are not accessible is to slow down the metabolism. 

 

And stored fat can not be accessed when insulin levels are high  Insulin acts as a hormonal switch that tells the body whether to store or use energy.  It can not do both at the same time.  It is an "either/or" type thing.  If insulin is high, it will store energy as body fat.  It's the body's way of saying, "I've just had a big meal and have all the energy I need; put the rest away for later use".  If insulin is low, it is because the body needs energy, and it will therefore allow stored fat to be accessed as fuel.  It simply can NOT do both at the same time.  So if your insulin level is not low enough, you will be completely incapable of accessing stored fat.  If you go on a calorie-restricted diet with high insulin levels, since "calories in" must equal "calories out", the only way this can happen is to slow down the metabolism.  The only way around this conundrum is to burn fat and that meaNS low insulin levels are required.

 

In all seriousness, If you lost 25kg of fat, then there were periods of time when your insulin levels had to have been low, probably from depleted glycogen stores as a result of weight lifting workouts perhaps.  All I know for certain is that it is impossible for the body to access stored body fat when insulin levels are high since the whole purpose of insulin is to control when the body stores or access energy.  That's it's main mission.

 

And congratulations BTW; I think you've added a new work to the dictionary...and I like it ...carbophobic... it has a nice ring to it ????

 

 

Good I am like you I like heated debates and I don't take it personal. I just worried as i like you a lot and like our debate.

 

What I am trying to say and what your missing is that your insulin levels don't stay elevated forever. And your body does not work hour by hour but closer to day by day. Your looking at it hour by hour. Do you really think your body is going to slow down metabolic rate based on an hour or high insulin and not being able to access fat.

 

Metabolic slowdown does not only occur because of shortage in food, but also because of your fat levels. The body measures those with leptin and ghrelin. Also your body will slow down burn less because you have less body mass to walk around with. Its not just food that makes it slow.

 

Of course my insulin levels were low, i had blood tests done on myself to see how i handled carb meals. (i was really into it then). I took tests half hour / one hour and then two hours. You could see levels going down fast. (i wanted to know what foods had what effect on me) I stated it before muscle helps you a lot. All the glycogen you burn you need to replace and that happens when you ingest carbs it gets put in the muscles again.  This brings your levels down quite fast. 

 

Those days it was lifting too, but main thing I did was up to 45 minutes (did go higher but not often) on a concept 2 model D rowing machine. It bored the hell out of me but I was intent on getting slim. 

 

There was enough time for my body to access the fat stored otherwise I would never have lost that much. 109 kg to 84 kg. Took me a year. At first it went fast but the leaner i got the slower it went. The picture i showed you was when i was 84 kg I was pretty lean then. Now I am getting pretty lean too but at a much higher weight and with a lot less carbs.

 

But I can't say its going any faster now I reach this point as back then when I was going for the last bits. The only thing is that now I might be a bit less hungry (trying to remember back then). 

 

My dad.. huge carb eater lost also quite a lot of weight with biking after a heart attack. He did not go low carb just biked a lot. I am a believer in calories in vs calories out (not 100% of course as I stated the body slows down for multiple reasons). 

 

I think low carb is probably more effective but that does not mean other diets don't work like you seem to think. I think the best diet is the diet you can stick with. For some that is low carb (working ok for me now) for others that is not low carb (worked good last time too).

 

I would advise lowering carbs  (and cutting processed carbs) to everyone, but I would not say its the only way especially for those who like their carbs or who like other stuff. 

[VincentRJ]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Fasting is quite different than calorie reduction.  Fasting by its nature reduces insulin drastically and immediately; calorie restriction does not.  Fasting results in production of ketone bodies which can fuel the brain directly and cause release of fatty acids from stored fat WITHOUT reducing metabolism; calorie reduction by itself can not.  What we're really debating here is calorie reduction vs insulin reduction.

I can appreciate that a body which has become accustomed to being overweight might initially strive to maintain its fat reserves when the overweight person reduces his calorie intake. In a sense, it would be like the body 'stealing' a portion of the energy normally expended for physical activities, for the purpose of maintaining fat reserves.

 

Such a person would initially feel lethargic and would be disappointed with the initial, negligible weight loss. However, as Robblok has mentioned, the body will soon adapt. Perseverance is the key.
 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

I can appreciate that a body which has become accustomed to being overweight might initially strive to maintain its fat reserves when the overweight person reduces his calorie intake. In a sense, it would be like the body 'stealing' a portion of the energy normally expended for physical activities, for the purpose of maintaining fat reserves.

 

Such a person would initially feel lethargic and would be disappointed with the initial, negligible weight loss. However, as Robblok has mentioned, the body will soon adapt. Perseverance is the key.
 

The body also has a certain fat set point that it will defend no matter what. Unfortunately that fat set point differs from person to person and never goes down (been reading about it looking for ways to change it) Though some say staying at a lower weight for a few years would help. 

 

The body is real smart in care of a caloric deficit it will down regulate NEAT (things like tapping your foot or other things you normally do will be stopped you wont notice it). That is why when once hits a plateau in weight los something has to change, sometimes when going lower in calories is not an option extra exercise helps or certain supplements. 

 

As i said i read many meta studies and while low carb often comes off better on the long run its just 1 or two kilos (over a year) that does not suggest that the metabolic rate stays high at low carb otherwise the differences would be much higher. 

[robblok]

@wavehunter

 

You yourself says that fasting does not slow the metabolic rate down even at start when there are no ketones. Then why would the body slow down if it can't access fuel for an hour. It can still burn glycogen and that glycogen will be replenished by the carbs.  So those carbs are not stored into fat. 

 

Once insulin is gone it switches back to fat burning and problem solved. You don't have to be in ketoses to burn fat. Fat is burned always when your doing medium intensity exercise movement bodily processes. 

 

Just think about it logically, how else did i and the Mc Donalds diet guy and the twinky guy lose weight. 

 

I certainly don't say its the most effective way to lose weight as over a year you might burn a kg more fat or maybe 2 if you do low carb. But on 25 kg that would just be 10% (and the 2 kg extra was one of the highest outcomes i saw in studies most showed not that much of a difference)

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The body also has a certain fat set point that it will defend no matter what. Unfortunately that fat set point differs from person to person and never goes down (been reading about it looking for ways to change it) Though some say staying at a lower weight for a few years would help. 

 

The body is real smart in care of a caloric deficit it will down regulate NEAT (things like tapping your foot or other things you normally do will be stopped you wont notice it). That is why when once hits a plateau in weight los something has to change, sometimes when going lower in calories is not an option extra exercise helps or certain supplements. 

 

As i said i read many meta studies and while low carb often comes off better on the long run its just 1 or two kilos (over a year) that does not suggest that the metabolic rate stays high at low carb otherwise the differences would be much higher. 

The human body and its processes are so complex that there are many things we don't fully understand and cannot be certain about. I recall many years ago, when the human genome was cracked and around 20-30,000 protein-encoding genes were identified, there was great excitement. Unfortunately, those protein-encoding genes represented only a tiny percentage of the total human genome, about 1.5%. The rest were thought to serve no purpose and were called 'junk' DNA (or RNA), and thought to be a leftover from our evolutionary past.

 

We are now gradually realizing that the so-called junk DNA is not necessarily junk and might serve some purpose in regulating the expression of the protein-encoding genes. There is a lot more to learn before we can be certain about the many processes and interactions in the human body.
 

[partington]

13 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

So if your insulin level is not low enough, you will be completely incapable of accessing stored fat.  If you go on a calorie-restricted diet with high insulin levels, since "calories in" must equal "calories out", the only way this can happen is to slow down the metabolism.  The only way around this conundrum is to burn fat and that meaNS low insulin levels are required.

 

In all seriousness, If you lost 25kg of fat, then there were periods of time when your insulin levels had to have been low, probably from depleted glycogen stores as a result of weight lifting workouts perhaps.  All I know for certain is that it is impossible for the body to access stored body fat when insulin levels are high since the whole purpose of insulin is to control when the body stores or access energy.  That's it's main mission.

If you are talking about normal subjects, not in a disease state, and not with metabolic syndrome or other recognised defects in insulin metabolism, there is no significant difficulty or implausibility  in losing weight when eating carbohydrates.

 

Most people spend most of a 24 hour day in a low insulin state because insulin is released in a pulsatile way in response to eating.  

 

Normal people have little circulating insulin two hours after a meal. If you don't eat carbohydrates insulin is broken down, and more is not released until you eat again.

 

Thus you spend perhaps 6-8 hours out of every 24 with significant insulin levels and twice to

three times as long with low insulin, plenty of time to mobilise fats.

 

Clear from this :

 

 

[WaveHunter]

10 hours ago, robblok said:

Good I am like you I like heated debates and I don't take it personal. I just worried as i like you a lot and like our debate.

 

What I am trying to say and what your missing is that your insulin levels don't stay elevated forever. And your body does not work hour by hour but closer to day by day. Your looking at it hour by hour. Do you really think your body is going to slow down metabolic rate based on an hour or high insulin and not being able to access fat.

 

Metabolic slowdown does not only occur because of shortage in food, but also because of your fat levels. The body measures those with leptin and ghrelin. Also your body will slow down burn less because you have less body mass to walk around with. Its not just food that makes it slow.

 

Of course my insulin levels were low, i had blood tests done on myself to see how i handled carb meals. (i was really into it then). I took tests half hour / one hour and then two hours. You could see levels going down fast. (i wanted to know what foods had what effect on me) I stated it before muscle helps you a lot. All the glycogen you burn you need to replace and that happens when you ingest carbs it gets put in the muscles again.  This brings your levels down quite fast. 

 

Those days it was lifting too, but main thing I did was up to 45 minutes (did go higher but not often) on a concept 2 model D rowing machine. It bored the hell out of me but I was intent on getting slim. 

 

There was enough time for my body to access the fat stored otherwise I would never have lost that much. 109 kg to 84 kg. Took me a year. At first it went fast but the leaner i got the slower it went. The picture i showed you was when i was 84 kg I was pretty lean then. Now I am getting pretty lean too but at a much higher weight and with a lot less carbs.

 

But I can't say its going any faster now I reach this point as back then when I was going for the last bits. The only thing is that now I might be a bit less hungry (trying to remember back then). 

 

My dad.. huge carb eater lost also quite a lot of weight with biking after a heart attack. He did not go low carb just biked a lot. I am a believer in calories in vs calories out (not 100% of course as I stated the body slows down for multiple reasons). 

 

I think low carb is probably more effective but that does not mean other diets don't work like you seem to think. I think the best diet is the diet you can stick with. For some that is low carb (working ok for me now) for others that is not low carb (worked good last time too).

 

I would advise lowering carbs  (and cutting processed carbs) to everyone, but I would not say its the only way especially for those who like their carbs or who like other stuff. 

  

OK, we're probably closer in agreement than either of us care to admit.  I think the missing element in this discussion is whether or not carbs are being stored as energy or used as energy.  There's a big difference and we're not discussing that.  For the person who eats massive amounts of carbs but regularly burns them off through physical activity, the situation is quite different from the person who is more sedentary and tends to mostly store them.  Sadly, these days most people fit into the latter category, and that is what I'm really discussing.  Also, I should have been clearer when I discussed the role insulin plays, because the term I really should have used was "insulin resistance" so indulge me here.

 


For overweight, sedentary people who eat far more carbs than they can burn off, the excess energy of course will be stored as fat.  I don't think anyone will argue that point.  It's also important to consider that carbohydrates cause a far greater insulin response than any other macronutrient, and also that carbs result in the least satiety of any macronutrient.  Therefore, people who's diets are high in carbohydrates tend to eat far more of them than they will possibly burn, and never really feel satiated.  This leads to "grazing" behavior where they tend to eat multiple meals throughout the day with frequent snacks between them.  It's not uncommon these days for many people to be consuming food in one form or another from the time they awake to the time to go to bed.  The net result is that an abnormally high level of insulin exists throughout the day in these people, and when they eat formal meals, it spikes even higher.

 

The significance of this is that insulin is the hormone that signals the body on whether to use or store energy, and it essentially acts as an on/off switch in this capacity.  If insulin is high as would be normal if glycogen stores are full like after a good meal, it signals the body to store any excess energy for future use as fat.  If it is low, it signals the body to access stored fat as fuel.  That's really the main job of insulin.

 

The problem is that, as is the case with most hormones, insulin is highly susceptible to habituation (or sensitization) so if overstimulated over time, it requires higher and higher levels for it to do its' job.  So, for the person over-indulging in carbs and not burning them off, the situation is like that of an alcoholic or drug abuser, it takes more and more alcohol, or drugs, or in the case, insulin to have the same effect. 

 

When this occurs it's referred to as "insulin resistance", and over time will become greater and greater, eventually leading to diabetes.  Far before this occurs however, one of the first things that will happen is that the body will have an increasingly difficult time accessing stored body fat.  The reason is that the set-point for insulin has changed drastically. In over-simplified terms, the switch is stuck in energy storage mode.   

 

So, I guess what I should have said in previous posts is that insulin "insensitivity" will prevent body fat from being accessed when entering into a caloric-restricted diet.  And therefore, if insulin insensitivity is preventing access to stored body fat, CICO ("calories in" must equal "calories out") dictates that the only option is to reduce metabolism in order to maintain homeostasis.  Would you agree?

 

Therefore, for the vast majority of dieters who are basically overweight and fairly sedentary, they are probably insulin-insensitive to some degree.  For them, in order for any type of diet to work they must first restore insulin levels from their abnormally high level to a more normal level that will allow access to stored fat.

[WaveHunter]

12 minutes ago, partington said:

If you are talking about normal subjects, not in a disease state, and not with metabolic syndrome or other recognised defects in insulin metabolism, there is no significant difficulty or implausibility  in losing weight when eating carbohydrates.

 

Most people spend most of a 24 hour day in a low insulin state because insulin is released in a pulsatile way in response to eating.  

 

Normal people have little circulating insulin two hours after a meal. If you don't eat carbohydrates insulin is broken down, and more is not released until you eat again.

 

Thus you spend perhaps 6-8 hours out of every 24 with significant insulin levels and twice to

three times as long with low insulin, plenty of time to mobilise fats.

 

Clear from this :

 

 

Unfortunately most overweight people don't eat that way.  Instead they graze primarily on carbohydrate snacks throughout the day  in addition to the standard three meals a day.  The result is that their insulin levels are abnormally high throughout the entire day, and then spike even higher at meal times.  Therefore, they are essentially in "energy storage" mode except when asleep.  Furthermore, this type of abusive eating will lead to insulin resistance, thus requiring greater amounts of insulin just to maintain a homeostatic state and eventually they will be incapable of accessing stored fat at all, because if they attempt to diet through caloric restriction with insulin levels that are through the roof like this, all that will be achieved is a slowed down metabolism UNTIL they first get their insulin levels under control again.

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

@wavehunter

 

You yourself says that fasting does not slow the metabolic rate down even at start when there are no ketones. Then why would the body slow down if it can't access fuel for an hour. It can still burn glycogen and that glycogen will be replenished by the carbs.  So those carbs are not stored into fat. 

 

Once insulin is gone it switches back to fat burning and problem solved. You don't have to be in ketoses to burn fat. Fat is burned always when your doing medium intensity exercise movement bodily processes. 

 

Just think about it logically, how else did i and the Mc Donalds diet guy and the twinky guy lose weight. 

 

I certainly don't say its the most effective way to lose weight as over a year you might burn a kg more fat or maybe 2 if you do low carb. But on 25 kg that would just be 10% (and the 2 kg extra was one of the highest outcomes i saw in studies most showed not that much of a difference)

Before I saw this post of yours I posted trying to clarify my position on all of this.  Frankly we've been discussing apples and oranges, so check out my post from earlier this morning.  Basically I have been discussing the "typical" overweight sedentary individual who is beginning to develop signs of insulin resistance (which happens to be the majority of the population these days, believe it or not), not the active person who may consume large amounts of carbs but tends to burn through most of them through physical activity.

[partington]

27 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

When this occurs it's referred to as "insulin resistance", and over time will become greater and greater, eventually leading to diabetes.  Far before this occurs however, one of the first things that will happen is that the body will have an increasingly difficult time accessing stored body fat.  The reason is that the set-point for insulin has changed drastically. In over-simplified terms, the switch is stuck in energy storage mode.   

 

This seems to be a bit backwards: if insulin action causes you to store fat, then a resistance to the action of insulin will cause you to release more fat, because the cells it acts on become resistant to the message "store fat".

 

This is why obese people who are insulin resistant have very high plasma free fatty acid levels. Their fat cells break down triglycerides because they are resistant to insulin telling them to store fat not break it down!

 

See for example:

Biochimie. 2016 Jun;125:259-66. 
Adipocyte lipolysis and insulin resistance.

Morigny P(1), Houssier M(1), Mouisel E(1), Langin D(2).

.

Obesity-induced insulin resistance is a major risk factor for the development of type 2 diabetes. Basal fat cell lipolysis (i.e., fat cell triacylglycerol
breakdown into fatty acids and glycerol in the absence of stimulatory factors) is elevated during obesity and is closely associated with insulin resistance.

In any case you seem to be changing the goalposts of your discussion, from talking about a typical person who wants to lose 4 or 5 kilos, to someone who eats all day, is already obese, and is insulin resistant.

 

Of course the latter person will find it more difficult to lose weight, especially if he doesn't stop " "grazing" behavior where they tend to eat multiple meals throughout the day with frequent snacks between them. [...] consuming food in one form or another from the time they awake to the time to go to bed." !

Edited April 16, 2019 by partington

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Before I saw this post of yours I posted trying to clarify my position on all of this.  Frankly we've been discussing apples and oranges, so check out my post from earlier this morning.  Basically I have been discussing the "typical" overweight sedentary individual who is beginning to develop signs of insulin resistance (which happens to be the majority of the population these days, believe it or not), not the active person who may consume large amounts of carbs but tends to burn through most of them through physical activity.

I told you before that for people who are sedentary and overweight a good first step is to cut carbs until they are back in a normal state. Yes if you have people who keep grazing then that is the end. But that is not what happens with people who are on a diet. They don't have a chance to keep grazing. 

 

But I said it before once someone has a normal insulin response then there is no problems with a moderate amount of carbs.

[villagefarang]

So I haven’t eaten anything for the last 48 hours.  I did have a double espresso the last two mornings but other than that only water.  Fasting is the only thing which has worked for me but it has become more difficult over the last few months.

 

Initially I was highly motivated and lost 10 kilos and began lifting weights again.  As my workouts have intensified and my muscles have returned, it has been harder for me to do more than my normal 4/20 or one meal per day.  I have even crept up 2 kilos which I assume is at least partially muscle mass.

 

Since I feel better and look better perhaps my motivation has dropped off and I have made excuses while focussing on more muscle.  With Songkran here, I have decided to try another 72 hour fast which means no food until tomorrow.  I prefer staying home during this holiday, while my wife is out attending all the required village rituals and ceremonies.  The pollution levels are still quite high as well so staying home with the air conditioner on is very attractive and I find it easier to fast when I am not pushing the physical activity.

 

I am really not into charts, logs or measuring things.  I am fairly intuitive when it comes to eating and weightlifting.  Generally I am plant based these days with almost no beef, pork or chicken.  If we are out socially I may cheat a bit and have fish outside of my normal fasting window.

 

I don’t really consult anyone or read about this stuff, I just do what feels right to me.  So I am fascinated by the back and forth on this topic.  I can’t tell if it is self motivation, competition or dominance but it is interesting to watch.  Surely at some point one runs out of debate points and just gets back to doing what one thinks works for them.

[TravelerEastWest]

15 hours ago, robblok said:

So my 25kg weight loss on a high carb diet was fiction. Mate I like you a lot but your carb fobic. You can lose fat on all diets and there is little difference between low carb and other diets. Sometimes it wins but not by much. So you should stop stating that you can't lose fat on other diets, its simply not true. You should read my studies too. 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/409791

Robblok,

 

You are clearly correct -based on my experience - high carb diet whole plant based diet with light exercise daily equal lots of weight loss which has stayed off.

 

low carb diets can give good short term results (really don't know about long term) but not better than a high carb diet.

 

I think lifestyle changes are what we are after and not a diet - which can be hard to maintain.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Robblok,

 

You are clearly correct -based on my experience - high carb diet whole plant based diet with light exercise daily equal lots of weight loss which has stayed off.

 

low carb diets can give good short term results (really don't know about long term) but not better than a high carb diet.

 

I think lifestyle changes are what we are after and not a diet - which can be hard to maintain.

You are so right, i changed my life after i lost the 25 kg, i did fall of the wagon last year because of sleeping problems and sometimes my weight goes up a few kgs and then I adjust again. But it is all about changing ones life.

 

My diet was not only plant based there was meat in it too. I am certainly no vegetarian. (would not want to be one.

 

Now I am back in good shape but want to go from good shape to super lean, that last little bit is hard. When i fell off the wagon last year i corrected it with going lower carb with fat and high proteins. It works better against hunger. 

 

I think I am now back where i started and would like to see 5 more KG off.. but those last 5 KG would bring me in the super lean athlete level (and that is a totally different thing from normal weight loss)  (maybe its less then 5 kg maybe more.. hard to say)

Edited April 16, 2019 by robblok

[robblok]

1 hour ago, villagefarang said:

So I haven’t eaten anything for the last 48 hours.  I did have a double espresso the last two mornings but other than that only water.  Fasting is the only thing which has worked for me but it has become more difficult over the last few months.

 

Initially I was highly motivated and lost 10 kilos and began lifting weights again.  As my workouts have intensified and my muscles have returned, it has been harder for me to do more than my normal 4/20 or one meal per day.  I have even crept up 2 kilos which I assume is at least partially muscle mass.

 

Since I feel better and look better perhaps my motivation has dropped off and I have made excuses while focussing on more muscle.  With Songkran here, I have decided to try another 72 hour fast which means no food until tomorrow.  I prefer staying home during this holiday, while my wife is out attending all the required village rituals and ceremonies.  The pollution levels are still quite high as well so staying home with the air conditioner on is very attractive and I find it easier to fast when I am not pushing the physical activity.

 

I am really not into charts, logs or measuring things.  I am fairly intuitive when it comes to eating and weightlifting.  Generally I am plant based these days with almost no beef, pork or chicken.  If we are out socially I may cheat a bit and have fish outside of my normal fasting window.

 

I don’t really consult anyone or read about this stuff, I just do what feels right to me.  So I am fascinated by the back and forth on this topic.  I can’t tell if it is self motivation, competition or dominance but it is interesting to watch.  Surely at some point one runs out of debate points and just gets back to doing what one thinks works for them.

In my case self motivation, keeps me focused. No need to dominate anyone about diets too many unknowns. Besides the best diet is the one you stick too and that does not always mean the most effective one. For me carbs are important around my training sessions. 

 

Still if I were you id take some measurements weight is nice but a centimeter around your waist helps a lot more especially when your busy gaining muscle. You need to know if your progressing (easy if you see more weight on the bar of course)

 

As for the lifting as long as you go for progressive overload you will be ok. Though it pays to shake it up once in a while. 

 

I have more then once made the mistake of going to heavy for a long time thus destroying my progress. I am a full throttle kind of guy that finds it real hard to plan in less heavy workouts. 

 

There is a lot to learn about lifting that you should really look into. I wish i had done that earlier it could have enhanced my gains a lot. I think i wasted some time by not doing deloads. I have forever been stuck at certain weight lifting plateaus. Now that I am trying to get the last little bit of fat off I can't of course increase lifts as you need more food (not that much more) to progress and loads of rest.

 

The stronger you get the more rest you need.

Edited April 16, 2019 by robblok

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, partington said:

This seems to be a bit backwards: if insulin action causes you to store fat, then a resistance to the action of insulin will cause you to release more fat, because the cells it acts on become resistant to the message "store fat".

 

This is why obese people who are insulin resistant have very high plasma free fatty acid levels. Their fat cells break down triglycerides because they are resistant to insulin telling them to store fat not break it down!

 

See for example:

Biochimie. 2016 Jun;125:259-66. 
Adipocyte lipolysis and insulin resistance.

Morigny P(1), Houssier M(1), Mouisel E(1), Langin D(2).

.

Obesity-induced insulin resistance is a major risk factor for the development of type 2 diabetes. Basal fat cell lipolysis (i.e., fat cell triacylglycerol
breakdown into fatty acids and glycerol in the absence of stimulatory factors) is elevated during obesity and is closely associated with insulin resistance.

Sorry but I can't keep talking about this.  Not pissed off or anything, just tired of defending what should be pretty obvious.  Everyone is free to believe what they want. 

 

It's a well established fact that excessive carbohydrates lead to obesity, and because of it's underlying link with high insulin, this is a hormonal problem, and not one that can simply be addressed through caloric restriction alone for the truly overweight and sedentary individual. 

 

Caloric Restriction as Primary (CRaP) theory has been around for decades but has been proven to be false simply because it violates the first law of thermodynamics with regard to metabolic homeostasis. 

 

A fat loss strategy based on modifying insulin levels however DOES take this into account!  So, it's insulin levels not calories that really count!

 

I've already posted numerous links to science-based and highly regarded studies that support my views, not just bits and pieces of mis-information, half-truths, and unscientific anecdotal accounts.   If some of you actually check out those links, you might be surprised at what you could learn.

 

At any rate, that's all I have to say on this.   

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

26 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Sorry but I can't keep talking about this.  Not pissed off or anything, just tired of defending what should be pretty obvious.  Everyone is free to believe what they want. 

 

It's a well established fact that excessive carbohydrates lead to obesity, and because of it's underlying link with high insulin, this is a hormonal problem, and not one that can simply be addressed through caloric restriction alone for the truly overweight and sedentary individual. 

 

Caloric Restriction as Primary (CRaP) theory has been around for decades but has been proven to be false simply because it violates the first law of thermodynamics with regard to metabolic homeostasis. 

 

A fat loss strategy based on modifying insulin levels however DOES take this into account!  So, it's insulin levels not calories that really count!

 

I've already posted numerous links to science-based and highly regarded studies that support my views, not just bits and pieces of mis-information, half-truths, and unscientific anecdotal accounts.   If some of you actually check out those links, you might be surprised at what you could learn.

 

At any rate, that's all I have to say on this.   

 

I certainly agree that for the truly obese they first need to go lo carb to get insulin functioning normal, then after a while it does not matter anymore what diet they choose. 

[TravelerEastWest]

"It's a well established fact that excessive carbohydrates lead to obesity,.."

 

Sorry, but it is not clearly established - just the opposite based on my readings and personal experience. Unless you define excessive as processed junk food carbs in that case I am with you - but you can eat healthy carbs as much as you like - maybe because they fill you up quickly?

 

High carb diets have been around for thousands of years all over the world.

 

What is bad is a junk food diet high in carbs and protein and fat and processed foods.

 

But I 100% respect your beliefs and personal experience...

[robblok]

@wavehunter

 

I think you are assuming that everyone who wants to lose weight is obese and has insulin problems. That is not the case, and for those of use with a normal functioning insulin mechanism there is no real need to go low carb. There is enough time without high insulin in the body to make it lose fat. 

 

You should not look at the body in an hour to hour way but better day by day energy balance. 

 

For those who have insulin problems they should of course go low carb to solve the problem otherwise it will be hard for them to lose weight. 

 

Those of use who have no such problems and are on a diet are also not grazing whole day long. The grazing is what the people do who are not on a diet, those on a diet can't graze as they will then eat too many calories and the diet will fail. 

 

Basically you can lose fat with any diet you want IF you have no insulin problems. I have posted you the examples of such so there is no denying that. 

 

There is also no denying that the moment there is insulin you can't lose fat but that is not a state normal people who are on a diet are in for a long period. It is a state for those who have insulin problems and they respond much better to low carb to solve the insulin problem.

 

When you post you come over like someone saying that only low carb works and that is not the case in normal people wanting to lose some weight. Your argument works for those with insulin problems the more severe cases. 

 

I send you a picture of me at 109 kg, that was before I dropped on a high carb diet to 84 kilo. You already seen the lean picture of me after that high carb diet. Or course I exercised a lot during that time and if I had any insulin problems that cured it.

 

The sad thing is even when i was so fat i was still exercising lifting weights and all but my diet was totally wrong and I drank alcohol. I told you before i have a slow thyroid so just a little too much makes me balloon up. 

 

Now I am doing low carb and it works too it seems I have less hunger then when I was on the high carb diet. But its hard to recall from 8 years ago. But i remember feeling hungrier. But now I am taking some supplements like berberine and I even take 3 times a day a nicotine chewing gum that is proven to curb appetite and enhance metabolic rate. (not everyone approves of it but I stopped this a few times cold turkey without any problems).

 

I have even tried the "dangerous" appetite supresser sibutramine (still available in some pharmacies). But that just made me sleep real bad and as I have told you before I already am sensitive about sleeping so i won't try that again.

 

Tried the even more dangerous one DNP but it did not work as good on me as on others. Plus I could not function i was sweating all the time in airconditioned rooms and in bed. I could not train as i did not sleep good so maybe the extra burn was negated by me not being able to train. It is not something I would advise anyone as the lethal dose is relatively close to the recommended dose. Plus the 36 hour half life makes calculating it all harder. I would advise people to stay away from it if they can even find it. If i lived at the north pole I might consider it.

 

Both things I tried during that year that i lost the 25 kg.

Edited April 17, 2019 by robblok

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

@wavehunter

 

I think you are assuming that everyone who wants to lose weight is obese and has insulin problems. That is not the case, and for those of use with a normal functioning insulin mechanism there is no real need to go low carb. There is enough time without high insulin in the body to make it lose fat. 

 

You should not look at the body in an hour to hour way but better day by day energy balance. 

 

For those who have insulin problems they should of course go low carb to solve the problem otherwise it will be hard for them to lose weight. 

 

Those of use who have no such problems and are on a diet are also not grazing whole day long. The grazing is what the people do who are not on a diet, those on a diet can't graze as they will then eat too many calories and the diet will fail. 

 

Basically you can lose fat with any diet you want IF you have no insulin problems. I have posted you the examples of such so there is no denying that. 

 

There is also no denying that the moment there is insulin you can't lose fat but that is not a state normal people who are on a diet are in for a long period. It is a state for those who have insulin problems and they respond much better to low carb to solve the insulin problem.

 

When you post you come over like someone saying that only low carb works and that is not the case in normal people wanting to lose some weight. Your argument works for those with insulin problems the more severe cases. 

 

I send you a picture of me at 109 kg, that was before I dropped on a high carb diet to 84 kilo. You already seen the lean picture of me after that high carb diet. Or course I exercised a lot during that time and if I had any insulin problems that cured it.

 

The sad thing is even when i was so fat i was still exercising lifting weights and all but my diet was totally wrong and I drank alcohol. I told you before i have a slow thyroid so just a little too much makes me balloon up. 

 

Now I am doing low carb and it works too it seems I have less hunger then when I was on the high carb diet. But its hard to recall from 8 years ago. But i remember feeling hungrier. But now I am taking some supplements like berberine and I even take 3 times a day a nicotine chewing gum that is proven to curb appetite and enhance metabolic rate. (not everyone approves of it but I stopped this a few times cold turkey without any problems).

 

I have even tried the "dangerous" appetite supresser sibutramine (still available in some pharmacies). But that just made me sleep real bad and as I have told you before I already am sensitive about sleeping so i won't try that again.

 

Tried the even more dangerous one DNP but it did not work as good on me as on others. Plus I could not function i was sweating all the time in airconditioned rooms and in bed. I could not train as i did not sleep good so maybe the extra burn was negated by me not being able to train. It is not something I would advise anyone as the lethal dose is relatively close to the recommended dose. Plus the 36 hour half life makes calculating it all harder. I would advise people to stay away from it if they can even find it. If i lived at the north pole I might consider it.

 

Both things I tried during that year that i lost the 25 kg.

I don't disagree with anything you have said.  I understand that what you're really saying is that, the correct nutritional strategy is whatever is right for the particular individual, and I agree with that.  That is up to every person to decide for themselves.  My point though is that to make that decision, you need to be informed; truly informed, and that information needs to come from reliable, science-based sources.  To base it only on anecdotal accounts, or even "the way you feel" is not good enough.  You can feel fine smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating cake...but that doesn't make it good for you, and it doesn't mean you're going to feel fine in the future.  Basing your health decision on science is clearly the way to go.

 

I am not "carbophobic".  Truth is, I actually "carb load" often when I need to...but ONLY when I need to (unless I'm having a bad day and wind up at McDonalds (hey, sh*t happens, nobody is perfect ???? )  For instance, if I'm road cycling on a long ride or hill climbing, I will definitely rely on carbs because I need explosive energy...but how often do you really need that kind of energy?  Certainly not when you are sitting at your desk working on the computer, or sitting on the couch watching TV, yet that is when people often snack on carbs.  I try to think of carbs as a useful "fuel" and nothing more.

 

My point is simply that most people these days have horrible nutritional habits.  The acronym, SAD (Standard American Diet) says it all.  The nutritional habits of the majority of the population, young and old alike is absolutely atrocious these days.  I am into road cycling and hill climbing and I regularly do long rides and hill climbs with younger riders (in their teens and 20's) who have no concept of proper nutrition.  They literally carb-load by mixing table sugar into their water, stuff their pockets with Cliff bars to eat, and are Vegans so they believe that carb-rich / low fat food is the most healthy way to eat.

 

OK, sure, when you are a teen or in your 20's you can get away with eating that way and you will seem to be the model of fitness as many of them are.  HOWEVER, there is a growing trend taking place in the last few decades with young people like that developing Diabetes type-2 without any warning signs whatsoever.  It's actually taking on epidemic proportions!  And I'm talking about kids in their teens and even pre-teens!  Diabetes type-2 in kids that young was unheard of before the 1970's-1980's!  

 

So, the question becomes, "What's the reason for that?".  When you think about it, you have to consider that's just about the same timeframe when fast foods really took off, and that's when the "food pyramid" started emphasizing that carbs should be the foundation of good nutrition.  It's when there was a big revolution in going "fat-free". 

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the rise in diabetes type-2 more or less matches these landmark changes in how the average person eats.  The way the food industry and major health organizations like the American Heart Association and the American Diabetes Association promote Fat-free foods is nearly criminal IMHO! 

 

There is nothing wrong with healthy fats and yet they are vilified.  Essential fats are important to good health, yet practically everything you see in supermarkets these days is labelled fat-free.  When you take the fat out of a food, it is practically unpalatable, so what do they do...they add sugar, and not just normal sugar but highly processed high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) !  If you read the food labels on practically any processed food you'll see HFCS as an ingredient, and it is in almost EVERYTHING (products you would normally not even expect there to be sugar in it like salad dressing for instance...and it's all there so the food can be labelled (marketed) as being fat free.  Why fat-free...because high fructose corn syrup is dirt-cheap to produce compared with foods with unprocessed fat-content.

 

So, the average person is getting huge amounts of sugar (carbs) without even realizing it!.  Thus, there is an epidemic these days in metabolic diseases such as diabetes type 2.  I was one of those people and got the shock of my life when my doctor told me I was pre-diabetic and had extremely high blood pressure!  My doctor did NOT ask me about my nutritional habits or council me on changing my diet.  He simply whipped out his prescription pad and wrote me a prescription for Metformin and statins.

 

I had to do my own research to figure out if there was a better way to deal with my condition, and long story short, that eventually led me to a low-carbohydrate lifestyle.  You call me "carb-phobic"; I call it "carb aware"  I read everything I could get my hands on.  I explored plant-based Vegan nutrition, Paleo, then I decided that combining the two was the best way to go and started thinking of myself as a "Pagan".  It took months and months of researching on my own and trial & error before I decided on Low Carb; it wasn't a snap decision or the result of some dopey YouTube guru video.  THAT'S what I'm advocating; not that others adopt a low-carb lifestyle but rather they do their due diligence using truly science-based sources, and do it with an open mind.

 

My situation improved as a result of plant-based, Vegan and "pegan" eating ...but not enough that I could do without the prescribed drugs.  It was only when I started exploring low-carb and fasting did things really change, and the change was dramatic and it literally happened in a matter of weeks!  I am completely off of all prescribed medications, even though my doctor and the American Diabetes Association claim that Diabetes is not reversible...so much for the so-called experts!

 

So yeah, I am a huge advocate of a low-carb lifestyle.  What's more, I don't think it's just for people who have been diagnosed with a metabolic issue.  Nobody knows when they may be diagnosed with Diabetes type 2.  The human body is pretty resilient and can put up with a lot of abuse for a long time...but eventually there usually is a price to pay.  Many of the leading researchers claim that the current alarming rise in type 2 diabetes / Obesity is likely to be the biggest epidemic in human history within the next decade, and I don't think simply unfounded hype!

 

IMHO, of all the nutritional strategies I've researched and tried for myself, one that is based primarily on low carbohydrates works best for me.  More and more people are beginning to adopt this view, and it's not just people with Diabetes either. 

 

There are increasing numbers of elite world-class athletes who are turning to low-carb to optimize their athletic performance because they are finding that fueling their bodies with fats can, in many cases, be even more effective than fueling them primarily with carbs (i.e.: less issues with bonking).  Of course, carbs are important for athletes requiring sudden, explosive power, but fats can adequately provide for the fuel needs in all other situations just as effectively as carbs once the body has become fat-adapted. 

 

Personally, I also don't feel deprived on a low-carb diet.  Nor do I feel weak or tired.  In fact, when I get up each morning I feel energized and rejuvenated in a way I never felt when I ate a carb-heavy diet.  

 

So personally, I see very little downside to a low-carb lifestyle, and quite a bit on the positive side for adopting it as a sound and healthy nutritional lifestyle.  You can call me carbophobic if you want, but I am simply carb-aware and much more healthy as a result.

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

@wavehunter

 

You just come across as comparing carbs with Hitler at times. I see them as on other kind of fuel and nothing wrong with them. That is unless you have an insulin problem. 

 

I will call you carb-aware. I don't feel bad on my low carb days but I doubt I ever truly go through all my glycogen I would see that on the scales. Today I am eating carbs as soon ill exercise.

 

But as said most people could do with a lot less processed carbs.

[WaveHunter]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

@wavehunter

 

You just come across as comparing carbs with Hitler at times. I see them as on other kind of fuel and nothing wrong with them. That is unless you have an insulin problem. 

 

I will call you carb-aware. I don't feel bad on my low carb days but I doubt I ever truly go through all my glycogen I would see that on the scales. Today I am eating carbs as soon ill exercise.

 

But as said most people could do with a lot less processed carbs.

OK, fine.  Your reply came back so fast I suspect you didn't even read my post in its' entirety or grasp my points, if that's all you have to say about them .  That's OK though; no worries.

Edited April 17, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

OK, fine.  Your reply came back so fast I suspect you didn't even read my post in its' entirety, if that's all you have to say about it .  That's OK though; no worries.

I have read all of it gave it a praise as i agree with much of it I read quite fast. If i did not agree with it id counter it and post much longer. 

[robblok]

@wavehunter

 

Your talking to someone who swallows books a day when I have a holiday and loves his E reader. I read real fast and all the books I read are in English even though I am Dutch..

 

Your about diabetic is exactly my view, but your more extreme in your views. I say leave the processed carbs and you will be fine you take it a step further. (but fail at times just like all of us in your own diet, I did it you did it)

 

We already discussed athletes and you made the distinction that i can live with. No need to argue about that I might not 100% agree but close enough.

 

I come from a family that prepared their own meals so all that processed crap almost never hits me. I cook my own meals so I don't have much opinion on it besides to say that people are better off without it just like you said.

 

So there you have it i was in agreement just did not see why I had to tell you i was in agreement as we covered much of those points before and we were in agreement then. 

 

Before I was just not in agreement with your statement about not being able to lose fat on high carb diets, we are on agreement there too that its possible unless you have insulin issues.

 

Your probably from the US and I am from the Netherlands so i see things different as we had less processed foods and so on. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by robblok

[GarryP]

31 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I don't disagree with anything you have said.  I understand that what you're really saying is that, the correct nutritional strategy is whatever is right for the particular individual, and I agree with that.  That is up to every person to decide for themselves.  My point though is that to make that decision, you need to be informed; truly informed, and that information needs to come from reliable, science-based sources.  To base it only on anecdotal accounts, or even "the way you feel" is not good enough.  You can feel fine smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and eating cake...but that doesn't make it good for you, and it doesn't mean you're going to feel fine in the future.  Basing your health decision on science is clearly the way to go.

 

I am not "carbophobic".  Truth is, I actually "carb load" often when I need to...but ONLY when I need to (unless I'm having a bad day and wind up at McDonalds (hey, sh*t happens, nobody is perfect ???? )  For instance, if I'm road cycling on a long ride or hill climbing, I will definitely rely on carbs because I need explosive energy...but how often do you really need that kind of energy?  Certainly not when you are sitting at your desk working on the computer, or sitting on the couch watching TV, yet that is when people often snack on carbs.  I try to think of carbs as a useful "fuel" and nothing more.

 

My point is simply that most people these days have horrible nutritional habits.  The acronym, SAD (Standard American Diet) says it all.  The nutritional habits of the majority of the population, young and old alike is absolutely atrocious these days.  I am into road cycling and hill climbing and I regularly do long rides and hill climbs with younger riders (in their teens and 20's) who have no concept of proper nutrition.  They literally carb-load by mixing table sugar into their water, stuff their pockets with Cliff bars to eat, and are Vegans so they believe that carb-rich / low fat food is the most healthy way to eat.

 

OK, sure, when you are a teen or in your 20's you can get away with eating that way and you will seem to be the model of fitness as many of them are.  HOWEVER, there is a growing trend taking place in the last few decades with young people like that developing Diabetes type-2 without any warning signs whatsoever.  It's actually taking on epidemic proportions!  And I'm talking about kids in their teens and even pre-teens!  Diabetes type-2 in kids that young was unheard of before the 1970's-1980's!  

 

So, the question becomes, "What's the reason for that?".  When you think about it, you have to consider that's just about the same timeframe when fast foods really took off, and that's when the "food pyramid" started emphasizing that carbs should be the foundation of good nutrition.  It's when there was a big revolution in going "fat-free". 

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the rise in diabetes type-2 more or less matches these landmark changes in how the average person eats.  The way the food industry and major health organizations like the American Heart Association and the American Diabetes Association promote Fat-free foods is nearly criminal IMHO! 

 

There is nothing wrong with healthy fats and yet they are vilified.  Essential fats are important to good health, yet practically everything you see in supermarkets these days is labelled fat-free.  When you take the fat out of a food, it is practically unpalatable, so what do they do...they add sugar, and not just normal sugar but highly processed high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) !  If you read the food labels on practically any processed food you'll see HFCS as an ingredient, and it is in almost EVERYTHING (products you would normally not even expect there to be sugar in it like salad dressing for instance...and it's all there so the food can be labelled (marketed) as being fat free.  Why fat-free...because high fructose corn syrup is dirt-cheap to produce compared with foods with unprocessed fat-content.

 

So, the average person is getting huge amounts of sugar (carbs) without even realizing it!.  Thus, there is an epidemic these days in metabolic diseases such as diabetes type 2.  I was one of those people and got the shock of my life when my doctor told me I was pre-diabetic and had extremely high blood pressure!  My doctor did NOT ask me about my nutritional habits or council me on changing my diet.  He simply whipped out his prescription pad and wrote me a prescription for Metformin and statins.

 

I had to do my own research to figure out if there was a better way to deal with my condition, and long story short, that eventually led me to a low-carbohydrate lifestyle.  You call me "carb-phobic"; I call it "carb aware"  I read everything I could get my hands on.  I explored plant-based Vegan nutrition, Paleo, then I decided that combining the two was the best way to go and started thinking of myself as a "Pagan".  It took months and months of researching on my own and trial & error before I decided on Low Carb; it wasn't a snap decision or the result of some dopey YouTube guru video.  THAT'S what I'm advocating; not that others adopt a low-carb lifestyle but rather they do their due diligence using truly science-based sources, and do it with an open mind.

 

My situation improved as a result of plant-based, Vegan and "pegan" eating ...but not enough that I could do without the prescribed drugs.  It was only when I started exploring low-carb and fasting did things really change, and the change was dramatic and it literally happened in a matter of weeks!  I am completely off of all prescribed medications, even though my doctor and the American Diabetes Association claim that Diabetes is not reversible...so much for the so-called experts!

 

So yeah, I am a huge advocate of a low-carb lifestyle.  What's more, I don't think it's just for people who have been diagnosed with a metabolic issue.  Nobody knows when they may be diagnosed with Diabetes type 2.  The human body is pretty resilient and can put up with a lot of abuse for a long time...but eventually there usually is a price to pay.  Many of the leading researchers claim that the current alarming rise in type 2 diabetes / Obesity is likely to be the biggest epidemic in human history within the next decade, and I don't think simply unfounded hype!

 

IMHO, of all the nutritional strategies I've researched and tried for myself, one that is based primarily on low carbohydrates works best for me.  More and more people are beginning to adopt this view, and it's not just people with Diabetes either. 

 

There are increasing numbers of elite world-class athletes who are turning to low-carb to optimize their athletic performance because they are finding that fueling their bodies with fats can, in many cases, be even more effective than fueling them primarily with carbs (i.e.: less issues with bonking).  Of course, carbs are important for athletes requiring sudden, explosive power, but fats can adequately provide for the fuel needs in all other situations just as effectively as carbs once the body has become fat-adapted. 

 

Personally, I also don't feel deprived on a low-carb diet.  Nor do I feel weak or tired.  In fact, when I get up each morning I feel energized and rejuvenated in a way I never felt when I ate a carb-heavy diet.  

 

So personally, I see very little downside to a low-carb lifestyle, and quite a bit on the positive side for adopting it as a sound and healthy nutritional lifestyle.  You can call me carbophobic if you want, but I am simply carb-aware and much more healthy as a result.

 

I'd love to be able to get off my blood pressure meds, only 5mg amlopine a day, but have sort of resigned myself that it is not going to happen. Would also like to reduce my fasting blood sugar levels but it has been the same 100 mg/dl for many years. I have reduced my carb intake considerably over the past 3 years but my blood sugar levels remain unchanged. 

 

I also exercise 5 days a week, mainly, rowing and am averaging more than 4 kms a day over the past year.  So increased exercise does not seem to have improved blood sugar levels either.