UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[melvinmelvin]

34 minutes ago, tebee said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/europe/brexit-theresa-may.html#click=https://t.co/z6aOsHdJiM

 

ta,

a good read

 

[tebee]

“The British politicians, who have argued for Brexit, now have a choice between reneging on their absurd political promise or an economic disaster of which the British people will be the first victim.”

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/france-calls-on-lying-uk-politicians-to-drop-brexit/

[tebee]

"[T]his is a con on the British people... It cannot be what you wanted, nor did the referendum provide any mandate for it." Strong stuff from a man who, a week ago, was a Cabinet Minister.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/92974b74-e8d9-11e8-885c-e64da4c0f981

 

The gulf between the deal and the promises made two years ago is unbridgeable.

 

Even if we do at some point nail down a customs arrangement for trade in goods, we’re fundamentally a service economy and we’ll see companies in finance, in IT, in communications and in digital technology suffer a loss of access to their biggest market.

 

 

...   : there is no evidence that the sunny uplands Brexit that has failed to materialise while we are still members can be magically agreed once the UK loses its leverage as a full member of the EU.
 

 

[Neeranam]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

We have moved on since that stuff chap...☺️

Who is, "we"? and less of the chap.

 

 

[Tweedle dee]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Who is, "we"? and less of the chap.

 

 

How about Ganesha gob ? 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Who is, "we"? and less of the chap.

 

 

Well you have been missing for a while and I thought an update may help...

 

As for the chap, well perhaps chummy is more to your liking...????

[tebee]

What do we do now then ?

 

[sandyf]

34 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Having the market of 70 million is nothing to sneeze at, particularly in a relatively affluent population.

Anyone that thinks big-business is going to throw a market that size away out of spite is not thinking clearly.

I worked for a Fortune 50 company that put a plant in Thailand just to serve the domestic market, a much smaller market than the UK.
 

 

Most of the large foreign investment used the UK as a gateway to Europe. The UK's largest single export is cars, $41.9 billion in 2017 , and the country of origin will now be questionable.

Now that gate is closing they will be looking closely at future costs and regulatory alignment. Every chance that moving goods from the UK into Europe will be become more expensive than as a member state.

When the next Airbus project hits the drawing board the UK should not be looking for a cut of the action. There is already a logistics problem and Airbus will be under no obligation to continue a problematic arrangement. Leaving the UK would be petty cash in the overall scheme of things.

[mogandave]

70 million people with vastly reduced economic stature ....
 
One quarter of young people will consider leaving Britain after brexit because of the reduced prospects there - the ones that go will be the ones that we need, those with the very same skills we need to rebuild the economy . 
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-may-head-for-exit-after-brexit-gssv3fmsk
 
The survey found a sharp generational divide in attitudes, with the 18-34 age group consistently more pessimistic about post-Brexit opportunities. About 43 per cent of younger workers said they believed that high-skilled job opportunities would move from the UK to the EU after Brexit, while only 19 per cent disagreed. 
 
Mark Brownridge, director-general of the EISA, said: “Any policy that prevents moving across the globe for work would be detrimental for UK small businesses, so it is a priority for the government to ensure that free movement of travel across borders is maintained.”

The key word being “may”

Everyone was going to leave the US when tRump was elected too.

[vinny41]

35 minutes ago, tebee said:

70 million people with vastly reduced economic stature ....

 

One quarter of young people will consider leaving Britain after brexit because of the reduced prospects there - the ones that go will be the ones that we need, those with the very same skills we need to rebuild the economy . 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-may-head-for-exit-after-brexit-gssv3fmsk

 

The survey found a sharp generational divide in attitudes, with the 18-34 age group consistently more pessimistic about post-Brexit opportunities. About 43 per cent of younger workers said they believed that high-skilled job opportunities would move from the UK to the EU after Brexit, while only 19 per cent disagreed. 

 

Mark Brownridge, director-general of the EISA, said: “Any policy that prevents moving across the globe for work would be detrimental for UK small businesses, so it is a priority for the government to ensure that free movement of travel across borders is maintained.”

Here is a good example of how one of the EU Flagship countries treats its citzens

Unemployed told to leave Ireland in desperate move to slash welfare costs

 

Ireland is asking its citizens to leave the country if they can't find a job in a desperate bid to slash welfare costs.

The Irish government has sent letters to approximately 6,000 unemployed people suggesting they should take jobs in other European countries in an effort to reduce unemployment benefits, the Financial Times has reported.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/unemployed-told-to-leave-ireland-in-desperate-move-to-slash-welfare-costs-9002720.html

[talahtnut]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

What do we do now then ?

 

I would like to see the government stop lying and making up figures to suit their agendas.

 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Most of the large foreign investment used the UK as a gateway to Europe. The UK's largest single export is cars, $41.9 billion in 2017 , and the country of origin will now be questionable.

Now that gate is closing they will be looking closely at future costs and regulatory alignment. Every chance that moving goods from the UK into Europe will be become more expensive than as a member state.

When the next Airbus project hits the drawing board the UK should not be looking for a cut of the action. There is already a logistics problem and Airbus will be under no obligation to continue a problematic arrangement. Leaving the UK would be petty cash in the overall scheme of things.

Incorrect  Mechanical machinery was the most valuable commodity with exports being worth 48.5 billion British pounds. Cars and electrical machinery came in second, at 32.7 billion

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

What do we do now then ?

 

I voted in that poll, guess which option.

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

What do we do now then ?

 

Just 8% of Brits support the idea of having a second referendum, according to the latest poll by YouGov. Added to the people who want to stop Brexit by other means, only 36% of voters would like to see the result of the referendum reversed. By contrast adding together the different Brexit options sees 46% of voters in favour of EU withdrawal. Nothing has changed…

[talahtnut]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I voted in that poll, guess which option.

Dont know?

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Incorrect  Mechanical machinery was the most valuable commodity with exports being worth 48.5 billion British pounds. Cars and electrical machinery came in second, at 32.7 billion

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

You are looking at the top 10 categories, and they have it wrong, second should be vehicles.

Cars heads the top 200.

[mogandave]

Most of the large foreign investment used the UK as a gateway to Europe. The UK's largest single export is cars, $41.9 billion in 2017 , and the country of origin will now be questionable.
Now that gate is closing they will be looking closely at future costs and regulatory alignment. Every chance that moving goods from the UK into Europe will be become more expensive than as a member state.
When the next Airbus project hits the drawing board the UK should not be looking for a cut of the action. There is already a logistics problem and Airbus will be under no obligation to continue a problematic arrangement. Leaving the UK would be petty cash in the overall scheme of things.

Well than Britain can trade cars and aircraft with countries that want to trade with them.

Europe is pretty much a developed market, not a growth market. Lowering domestic costs could make Britain more competitive in growth markets, rather than fighting with the other EU members over market share.

The CEO of the company I worked for had a big sales strategy meeting. He went over Asia, NA, SA, AU, ME etc.

At the end of the meeting someone asked “What about Europe?”

The CEO answered: “Europe? That’s where we refuel the plane on the way to China.”

There it’s like the US, the market is pretty well developed.

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are looking at the top 10 categories, and they have it wrong, second should be vehicles.

Cars heads the top 200.

The issue is remainers don't provide links to support their claims you posted"The UK's largest single export is cars, $41.9 billion in 2017 , and the country of origin will now be questionable."

Clearly this is incorrect as these stats show

This statistic shows the 30 largest export commodities of the United Kingdom (UK) in 2017. This ranges from machinery and pharmaceutical products to paper, textile and crude materials. Mechanical machinery was the most valuable commodity with exports being worth 48.5 billion British pounds. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Yes, May to blame again, to say she messed up the General Election would be an understatement. JC and the rest of the Marxist movement should be history. When she needed the support of the country she decided to up taxes, mess about with the pensions whilst J Corbyn was offering free everything (Corbynomics). She listened to her advisors, who was promptly sacked after the election, she has been the worst PM in history (probably), she has lied and not fulfilled her promises.

Now she won't listen to anybody, I just hope for the countrys sake she is replaced very soon, but in the back of my mind, I fear she will linger on.

"Yes, May to blame again, to say she messed up the General Election would be an understatement."

 

Couldn't agree more, and am still wondering why she and her advisors/ministers came up with such an obviously bad election manifesto that was guaranteed to lose votes??!....

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The Brexit Short: How Hedge Funds Used Private Polls to Make Millions

"Private polls—and a timely ‘concession’ from the face of Leave—allowed the funds to make millions off the pound’s collapse."

Sadly, it wouldn't suprise me at all ☹️.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I have no problem with Labour, Labour have some fine MPs, I would struggle to find any in JCs cabinet at the moment. Don't forget when JC was voted in to the leaders job, nobody but nobody wanted to work with him, only misfits Dianne Abbott and John Mcdonnall.

Do not forget JC has been saying for all his political career how much he hates the EU, now all of a sudden he's a born again europhile, "all brexit options are on the table" I just wonder sometimes if he is being worked from behind by Kier Starmer.

"Do not forget JC has been saying for all his political career how much he hates the EU, now all of a sudden he's a born again europhile, "all brexit options are on the table"

 

In other words, he's a typical politician saying whatever he needs to maintain his position....

[tebee]

interesting comparison, worth reading 

 

 

[sandyf]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The issue is remainers don't provide links to support their claims you posted"The UK's largest single export is cars, $41.9 billion in 2017 , and the country of origin will now be questionable."

Clearly this is incorrect as these stats show

This statistic shows the 30 largest export commodities of the United Kingdom (UK) in 2017. This ranges from machinery and pharmaceutical products to paper, textile and crude materials. Mechanical machinery was the most valuable commodity with exports being worth 48.5 billion British pounds. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

The following searchable table displays 200 of the most in-demand goods shipped from the United Kingdom during 2017. Shown beside each product label is its total export value then the percentage increase or decrease since 2016.

Show 102550100 entries

Search:

Rank	UK Export Product	2017 Value (US$)	Change
1	Cars	$41.9 billion	+2.7%
2	Turbo-jets	$25.2 billion	+29.9%
3	Medication mixes in dosage	$20.4 billion	-6.1%
4	Crude oil	$19 billion	+44.1%
5	Gold (unwrought)	$17 billion	+9.3%
6	Aircraft parts	$16.1 billion	+7.6%
7	Processed petroleum oils	$11.3 billion	+23.7%
8	Blood fractions (including antisera)	$9.7 billion	+11.5%
9	Alcohol (including spirits, liqueurs)	$7.3 billion	+3.5%
10	Automobile parts/accessories	$6.6 billion	+4.7%

Showing 1 to 10 of 200 entries

PreviousNext

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/

 

Happy, and as for origin, cars exported from the UK are classed as made in the EU, no doubt you will dispute that, and then try and claim that post brexit they will be made in the UK, ignoring the composition ruling.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I voted in that poll, guess which option.

I've never yet been asked to participate in a poll - apart from tories outside an election station after voting.

 

I declined to answer their question as to how I had voted.

 

Edit - I assume that I don't 'fit in' with any pollsters preferred 'targets'.

Edited November 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[sandyf]

There is no constructive argument for leaving the EU. If there was, why is Theresa May so wound up about the future trading relationship with an entity that is about to implode.

 

There can be no better deal on the table than the one available as a member of the EU.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

maybe not,

I think an interesting question is,

 

would the deal look the same today if Tory enjoyed a clear majority without any DUP support?

 

 

guys,

any views on this?

 

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The following searchable table displays 200 of the most in-demand goods shipped from the United Kingdom during 2017. Shown beside each product label is its total export value then the percentage increase or decrease since 2016.

Show 102550100 entries

Search:

Rank	UK Export Product	2017 Value (US$)	Change
1	Cars	$41.9 billion	+2.7%
2	Turbo-jets	$25.2 billion	+29.9%
3	Medication mixes in dosage	$20.4 billion	-6.1%
4	Crude oil	$19 billion	+44.1%
5	Gold (unwrought)	$17 billion	+9.3%
6	Aircraft parts	$16.1 billion	+7.6%
7	Processed petroleum oils	$11.3 billion	+23.7%
8	Blood fractions (including antisera)	$9.7 billion	+11.5%
9	Alcohol (including spirits, liqueurs)	$7.3 billion	+3.5%
10	Automobile parts/accessories	$6.6 billion	+4.7%

Showing 1 to 10 of 200 entries

PreviousNext

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/

 

Happy, and as for origin, cars exported from the UK are classed as made in the EU, no doubt you will dispute that, and then try and claim that post brexit they will be made in the UK, ignoring the composition ruling.

From your own link 

The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in UK global shipments during 2017. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from United Kingdom.

1. Machinery including computers: US$68 billion (15.3% of total exports)
2. Vehicles: $53.7 billion (12.1%)

[talahtnut]

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are looking at the top 10 categories, and they have it wrong, second should be vehicles.

Cars heads the top 200.

We don't have a car industry, we put bits and bobs together on

foreign manufactures cars.

Another fiddle to make the figures look nice.

I would guess that our biggest export is Offshore Tax Fraud.

For technical reasons there are no figures available.

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've never yet been asked to participate in a poll - apart from tories outside an election station after voting.

 

I declined to answer their question as to how I had voted.

 

Edit - I assume that I don't 'fit in' with any pollsters preferred 'targets'.

Absolutely nothing to do with "preferred targets". You have to be registered with YouGov and you get paid to do it, not a lot, takes me about 2 years to get £50.

Before you say anything I am not commenting on the validity of said polls.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

From your own link 

The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in UK global shipments during 2017. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from United Kingdom.

1. Machinery including computers: US$68 billion (15.3% of total exports)
2. Vehicles: $53.7 billion (12.1%)

I  originally said "single export" and I have already said I used the top 200 figure, what exactly are you finding so difficult.