UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[bomber]

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

One of our esteemed fellows here continues to postulate that it's a case of the UK against the 27. Many other posters, regardless of which side of the debate they position themselves, know that a united 27 has never been the case, and never will be. There have been many dissenters, not just the Greece, Italy, Poland and Hungary, etc of today. But here's an interesting view from Iceland, which I chanced upon today:

 

"Everyone wants to trade with Britain, says Iceland's foreign minister"

 

“You’re the fifth largest economy in the world. Everyone wants to sell you goods and services. It’s just as simple as that.”

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/05/everyone-wants-trade-britain-says-icelands-foreign-minister/

 

iceland <deleted>,one of the smallest nations on earth,hardly going create 100,000s of lost jobs lost because of brexit.

[Grouse]

48 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

Exactly. Nobody seems to get that. Without that issue they would have made a deal a year ago. There is no real solution. There are regulatory and customs issues even with the best of free trade deals. Canada and US have a very comprehensive free trade deal, but a very hard border in between. It is easy to criticize, but I have not seen a single workable plan put forward on this forum or anywhere else.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Remain

[Guest]

Get the F out Elisabeth. It's Thatcher time! - according to Jacob Rees-Mogg.

 

"Putting Lady Thatcher’s picture on the £50 note would be a timely reminder of how to negotiate with the EU."

 

 

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I found this on the BBC News site today.

 

Look at the top 30 countries, see where the UK is and where the rest of the EU countries are. Go back over the years and see where the UK stood and stands now.

 

Global Competitiveness Report

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Competitiveness_Report#2018–2019_rankings

 

 

OK, you win!

 

What point are you making?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I found this on the BBC News site today.

 

Look at the top 30 countries, see where the UK is and where the rest of the EU countries are. Go back over the years and see where the UK stood and stands now.

 

Global Competitiveness Report

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Competitiveness_Report#2018–2019_rankings

These ratings are going to be interesting to see 1, 3, 5 and 10 years from now. 

 

Btw. I'm not surprised my country dropped few places over the last couple of years. We had a really nonfunctional government for some years prior the drop. It was still far more functional than UK has now.

 

 

[tebee]

37 minutes ago, Grouse said:

To reiterate the whole Brexit farce is indeed stupid.

 

The original idea was imbecilic, asking the general population for their opinion was idiotic, the negotiations are being carried out by self serving morons. The UK has been made a laughing stock ????

 

I blame the dumbing down of the UK generally and the inadequate education of the underprivileged in particular

 

I'm glad you noticed my condescending tone; how perspicacious of you!

 

If if this continues I may start sneering!

What I fail to understand is why anyone expects us to get any sort of beneficial deal, given that the brexiters trying to negotiate it such incompetent, mendacious fools. The obviously have no idea about what they are trying to do. TM is a very stupid person too, listens to far too much bad advice, is xenophobic and without an ounce of compassion. She is doing this for the glory she thinks will come her way.    

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Get the F out Elisabeth. It's Thatcher time! - according to Jacob Rees-Mogg.

 

"Putting Lady Thatcher’s picture on the £50 note would be a timely reminder of how to negotiate with the EU."

 

 

Is it legal to burn £50 notes?

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Get the F out Elisabeth. It's Thatcher time! - according to Jacob Rees-Mogg.

 

"Putting Lady Thatcher’s picture on the £50 note would be a timely reminder of how to negotiate with the EU."

 

 

Actually, Thatcher negotiated very well with the EU. She kept the UK out of the Eurozone. In fact the EU, despite being composed of evil and merciless control freaks, has made many big concessions to the UK.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

These ratings are going to be interesting to see 1, 3, 5 and 10 years from now. 

 

Btw. I'm not surprised my country dropped few places over the last couple of years. We had a really nonfunctional government for some years prior the drop. It was still far more functional than UK has now.

 

 

Italy?

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, oilinki said:

These ratings are going to be interesting to see 1, 3, 5 and 10 years from now. 

 

Btw. I'm not surprised my country dropped few places over the last couple of years. We had a really nonfunctional government for some years prior the drop. It was still far more functional than UK has now.

 

 

6 out of the top 10 nations are in the EU. Don't they understand that they are merely slaves subject to the whims, red tape and regulation of the unelected EU bureaucrats sitting high in their tower in Brussels? Whilst in the penthouse, the Eye of Sauron burns more brightly than ever.

Edited October 18, 2018 by bristolboy

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Italy?

I was about to reply to your insult, do I really give an impression of a person, who moves his hands like a puppet when he talks, behaves like a bi-polar in his manic phase, talks emotionally without higher understanding how the world works!!?

 

Then it hit me, as my fingers were pouncing the keyboard frantically. I'm in the internets. We all are Italians in the internets.. 

[My Thai Life]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

And considering that Brexit was driven in large part by resentment of immigrants from other EU nations,

The fact that you believe this demonstrates what a racist you are.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The fact that you believe this demonstrates what a racist you are.

No it doesn't and you know it.

 

As you brexiters like to say, 17 million people, the vast majority in England (and therefore UK), wanted to get rid of the pesky foreigners and take control of your borders. Should we forget that in anytime soon? Do we forget that anytime soon?

 

 

[Grouse]

29 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I was about to reply to your insult, do I really give an impression of a person, who moves his hands like a puppet when he talks, behaves like a bi-polar in his manic phase, talks emotionally without higher understanding how the world works!!?

 

Then it hit me, as my fingers were pouncing the keyboard frantically. I'm in the internets. We all are Italians in the internets.. 

Miscommunication. Italy was missing from the list of countries by competitiveness!

[My Thai Life]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Really? The EU has some major trade treaties under its belt or nearly complete. In addition it's average tariff rate is currently slightly less than 2 percent.

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/european-union/tariff-rate

For those of us who understand international trade in this modern age of low tariffs, borderless trade is a a far more important to than lowering tariff rates than are already very low. You think the USA is going to make the UK part of Nafta or whatever Trump is calling it now.

For those of us who understanding negotiating, the bigger the gorilla in the negotiating room the more clout it has.

You've missed the point. The UK has voted to negotiate its own trade agreements, not to participate in the EU's. British people want control of British trade policy; this shouldn't surprise you. Evidently you only support democracy when it suits you.

 

As a matter of fact the weighted EU average tariff is just over 5%. But averages mean very little. The tariff on dairy is 35%. And 40% of the EU budget goes to maintaining the subsidies on agriculture that are protected by this 35% tariff. Those of us that understand economics know that this doesn't make sense (unless you're an inefficient French farmer for whose benefit this farce was originally concocted). I have posted at greater length than anyone on this forum regarding the CAP, and with numerous and varying sources. I've had to repeat this for several posters, but I'm not going to repeat it again for you.

 

You imply you understand international trade, but the only personal info that you've divulged was that you stayed in the UK with a mining family during the miner's strike. You evidently learnt nothing from that holiday because those communities voted overwhelmingly in support of Brexit. Your fantasy about Nafta indicates what sort of knowledge you really have of trade.

 

The gorilla analogy is a gross oversimplification, and I've already responded to this argument from another poster. I'll simplify it even further: 28 countries to not have common interests in trade, therefore it is better for individual countries no negotiate individual trade agreements that are tailored to their own particular interests. Most EU countries are too small to negotiate effective trade deals alone, the UK is not.

Edited October 18, 2018 by My Thai Life

[tebee]

48 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I was about to reply to your insult, do I really give an impression of a person, who moves his hands like a puppet when he talks, behaves like a bi-polar in his manic phase, talks emotionally without higher understanding how the world works!!?

 

Then it hit me, as my fingers were pouncing the keyboard frantically. I'm in the internets. We all are Italians in the internets.. 

My excuse is I'm one quarter Italian by blood ...

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Miscommunication. Italy was missing from the list of countries by competitiveness!

I figured that one out, even before I posted my reply. I still couldn't resist of lightening up the topic a bit with some silliness ????

 

This whole Brexit process is very long one. It's taxing each of us. Sometimes we get all protective for our rights, sometimes we throw up insults towards each others. 

 

Even when the negotiations become tough, actually specially then, it's good to have a bit of fun occasionally. To remind us all, regardless which side we are, that we are actually very, very similar kind of people. 

 

 

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, oilinki said:

No it doesn't and you know it.

 

As you brexiters like to say, 17 million people, the vast majority in England (and therefore UK), wanted to get rid of the pesky foreigners and take control of your borders. Should we forget that in anytime soon? Do we forget that anytime soon?

 

 

The 17 million people came from Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland and England, No one other than a very small minority want to get rid of those pesky foreigners ( my understanding is that your country also has a small minority that wants to get rid of all pesky foreigners, Control our borders and Control immigration is what people want

If the entire population of the UK upsticks and relocated to Finland  would you fellow countrymen say no problem although we only have a population of 5.503 million your country could cope with  an additional 66.57 million people

you know the 1st thing is the 66 million people would demand that the national language would change to English other changes would soon follow

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, I pretty much agree with your thinking. 

 

I have said all along there are in fact only two options and one choice: single market (soft Brexit), or a simple no deal (for the time being).  The one is eminently workable and the other actually quite cunning.

 

The problem is the latter requires the will of the people and a strong government- we simply don't have this.  What's more there is a real danger Scotland and N.Ireland would go their own way.

 

The problem with Brexit is not so much the result or the doing of it, but the hysteria that surrounds it, but that hysteria is almost palpable.

 

It won't happen, it can't happen, but the best solution is to ditch Brexit for the time being.

Hi MB. I completely agree about the hysteria. I survey a few of the "quality" press every day, and the hysteria in the comments sections is mounting daily. This forum has its moments too ????

 

About options for Brexit. It seems to me there are two ways to look at this: (1) what's theoretically possible (2) what's really likely to happen.

 

Re (1) I found this analysis of EEA v EFTA https://brexitcentral.com/britain-consider-efta-stay-clear-eea/

The writer Hjörtur J. Guðmundsson is a historian and MA in International Relations living in Iceland. The link also lead to a research paper he wrote on the topic. It's very interesting, but to me at least it's in the realm of theory, rather than what's likely to happen. Cheers.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

6 out of the top 10 nations are in the EU. Don't they understand that they are merely slaves subject to the whims, red tape and regulation of the unelected EU bureaucrats sitting high in their tower in Brussels? Whilst in the penthouse, the Eye of Sauron burns more brightly than ever.

Wrong..  5...soon to be 4.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The 17 million people came from Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland and England, No one other than a very small minority want to get rid of those pesky foreigners ( my understanding is that your country also has a small minority that wants to get rid of all pesky foreigners, Control our borders and Control immigration is what people want

If the entire population of the UK upsticks and relocated to Finland  would you fellow countrymen say no problem although we only have a population of 5.503 million your country could cope with  an additional 66.57 million people

you know the 1st thing is the 66 million people would demand that the national language would change to English other changes would soon follow

Well it depends. Can we use them Englishmen as our servants to do all the hard outdoor work, while we Finns can watch them from the patio, drinking screwdrivers?

 

That's actually an intriguing idea! Why not? You.. oh, the English folks.. would make pretty good pool of servants. We could hire some more organised ones as butlers who keep the lads in control. 

 

When can they start? 

 

Ps. When you copy stuff from Wikipedia or St Petersbourg database, remember to change the font. 

[vinny41]

Just now, oilinki said:

Well it depends. Can we use them Englishmen as our servants to do all the hard outdoor work, while we Finns can watch them from the patio, drinking screwdrivers?

 

That's actually an intriguing idea! Why not? You.. oh, the English folks.. would make pretty good pool of servants. We could hire some more organised ones as butlers who keep the lads in control. 

 

When can they start? 

 

Ps. When you copy stuff from Wikipedia or St Petersbourg database, remember to change the font. 

It seems your the only person on this forum that keeps Referencing to St Petersbourg database,  I don't mind because I know you have lost the argument and can only resort to personal attacks

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Well it depends. Can we use them Englishmen as our servants to do all the hard outdoor work, while we Finns can watch them from the patio, drinking screwdrivers?

 

That's actually an intriguing idea! Why not? You.. oh, the English folks.. would make pretty good pool of servants. We could hire some more organised ones as butlers who keep the lads in control. 

 

When can they start? 

 

Ps. When you copy stuff from Wikipedia or St Petersbourg database, remember to change the font. 

England - the 21st century India for Finns. Cheap labour, servants, spicy booze, silly talking head politicians - you name it, we'll provide it for you. 

 

I kind of start to like Brexit already. 

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Well it depends. Can we use them Englishmen as our servants to do all the hard outdoor work, while we Finns can watch them from the patio, drinking screwdrivers?

 

That's actually an intriguing idea! Why not? You.. oh, the English folks.. would make pretty good pool of servants. We could hire some more organised ones as butlers who keep the lads in control. 

 

When can they start? 

 

Ps. When you copy stuff from Wikipedia or St Petersbourg database, remember to change the font. 

Screwdrivers, Finnish drunks are arely that refined! 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It seems your the only person on this forum that keeps Referencing to St Petersbourg database,  I don't mind because I know you have lost the argument and can only resort to personal attacks

Should I create additional accounts not to be the only one who Referencing to ?

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, adammike said:

I read that in a few years the Catholic population of northern Ireland will be in a majority.A referendum is held over unification and a majority is for it,well it's the will of the people and all that.The trouble with Ireland is the threat of bombs and guns at the first hint of a break from the UK for NI or unification,that problem will definitely be above the ability of anybody in the present government.

Not all catholics want unity with Ireland- there are other factors.  Likewise not all Irish people south of the border want unification.

[vinny41]

23 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Should I create additional accounts not to be the only one who Referencing to ?

Upto your choice you will be just making yourself out to a bigger idiot that you are now

[bristolboy]

48 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Wrong..  5...soon to be 4.

You got me there.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

The fact that you believe this demonstrates what a racist you are.

Are you saying that there was no resentment among Britons of immigrants from other EU nations?  And that this wasn't a big factor in the Brexit vote? That freedom of movement wasn't a problem for lots of UK citizens?

And how does pointing that out make me a racist?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

My excuse is I'm one quarter Italian by blood ...

And it shows, you don't talk like a proper Englishman.