UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[7by7]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:27 PM, Patriot1066 said:

Actually the EU has its of form on multiple votes until,the country get to the "correct democratic vote"

Really?

 

Perhaps you can enlighten us on how many referendums the EU has run, their subject and the result.

 

What the governments of individual members do in this regard is up to them, not the EU. For example, some members had referendums on Maastricht, others, like the UK, didn't.

[7by7]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 1:28 AM, rixalex said:

Democratic decisions can indeed be changed but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about a democratic process in which the whole voting population was involved, being ignored. That's something quite different. When has that ever happened before in Britain?



Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 We had a referendum in 1975 and over 70% voted to remain in what was then the EEC; a far bigger majority than Leave obtained in 2016.

 

Using your argument, and those of all opposed to a second referendum, the 2016 referendum should never have happened!

 

Of course, you may argue that the EU now is nothing like the EEC then; and in some respects you'd be right. But all of the things Brexiteers object to about the EU were either already in place in 1975, or were being planned and were known about.

 

The majority of those who want a second referendum may be Remainers, but I have asked before and will ask again; maybe someone will answer this time.

 

What is it about a second referendum that frightens Brexiteers? The probability that you'll lose this time now that the lies of the Leave campaign have been exposed?

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Cameron did the right thing, he allowed the people to have the vote they wanted, he didn't want it so he couldn't be at the helm during the exit process, and he left, good.  I believe it should be someone who believes in it who overseas it, do you not?

Nobody really believes in it

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

What is that Cameron is to blame for, allowing the plebs the vote?

Stating unequivocally that parliament would implement whatever the people voted for. Criminally misleading.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

ticians to start keeping to their word and election

 

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

disagree strongly

 

UK should be very pleased that Cameron pissed off swiftly, well done Cameron

no point in having a PM screwing up such a project around

 

Yeah, well done Cameron. He really did turn out to be "Dodgy Dave".

 

Now May is making an even bigger screw up than Cameron would have managed.

 

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 We had a referendum in 1975 and over 70% voted to remain in what was then the EEC; a far bigger majority than Leave obtained in 2016.

 

Using your argument, and those of all opposed to a second referendum, the 2016 referendum should never have happened!

 

Of course, you may argue that the EU now is nothing like the EEC then; and in some respects you'd be right. But all of the things Brexiteers object to about the EU were either already in place in 1975, or were being planned and were known about.

 

The majority of those who want a second referendum may be Remainers, but I have asked before and will ask again; maybe someone will answer this time.

 

What is it about a second referendum that frightens Brexiteers? The probability that you'll lose this time now that the lies of the Leave campaign have been exposed?

 

The referendum in 1975 indeed concerned the EEC, which was still being broadly touted as the "Common Market" and little else. Yes a far bigger majority but it was 67%. But the EU can now been seen to be far more than just an economic arrangement - nothing like what people in the 70's envisaged.

 

I do argue that the EU now is nothing like the EEC then (see above). The things that Brexiteers object to about the EU were indeed in place in 1975, or were being planned but were NOT widely known about. If they were we would never have joined in the first place!

 

The scary thing about a second referendum on the same issue is that it will permanently undermine any remnants of British democracy. Next referendum, being fair, should be in 2047!

 

Campaign lies came from both sides. 

[Kieran00001]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

I want politicians to start keeping to their word and election manifestos!

 

Any successful exit plan is fine by me. 

 

Did Cameron's election manifesto state that he would plan the exit process?

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Did Cameron's election manifesto state that he would plan the exit process?

No but manifestos rarely deal with "what ifs". This is a question of responsibility, which Dodgy Dave ducked.

[Grouse]

Major Brexiter puts money where his mouth is

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45950377

 

Dyson, what a t**t

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

 

How can, and I am assuming you mean Cameron refute something when we have watched him say it. Maybe he was trying to scare people into voting remain by saying this, we don't know, but say it he did, you cannot unsay something once you've said it.

As i wrote in a twin posting, refuted soon after by Senior leavers.

 

I posted a list of the quotes together with an interview with Sir John Major about 2 weeks ago.  You either didn't read the posting, or didn't reply.  David Davies was one of the villains, Boris Johnson the other.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by mommysboy

[bomber]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Major Brexiter puts money where his mouth is

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45950377

 

Dyson, what a t**t

what a traitor,always been a <deleted> that bloke andfor good measure his hovers were <deleted>.

[RuamRudy]

32 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Major Brexiter puts money where his mouth is

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45950377

 

Dyson, what a t**t

Have any of the leading Brexiteers not shown themselves to be utter hypocrites? Lawson moving to France, Redwood advising people to move their cash from the UK, Rees Mogg taking his cash to Ireland, etc etc. 

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Major Brexiter puts money where his mouth is

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45950377

 

Dyson, what a t**t

Think about it. The market and practicality for electric cars (and trucks) will be particularly significant in Singapore. A small island, no resources, crazy high vehicle tax and licensing for big hydrocarbon burners yet only short distances to travel nationally. Easy to charge at your apartment CP overnight and batteries will probably be good enough by then for a whole day (unless you want to drive out of Singapore). Most of the taxis will be electric too. A big market in a small place.

 

Smart move - but then he's a Brexiteer!

[tebee]

19 hours ago, rixalex said:

Well of course I didn't for a minute expect a remainer to accept or acknowledge the remain side's part in putting us where we are now.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

With Brexiters someone else always has to be to blame for their frustration. If you take on a course of action such as Brexit without any plan, or even any clear objective of where you want to go, it just generates endless frustration.

 

If one has an argument with one’s partner, shouts 'I am leaving' and, with that, exits slamming the door and finds oneself in the street in the rain without a raincoat, I suspect some Brexiters would blame the weather forecasters or the local council for their predicament.

 

At the moment the blame for Brexit not being delivered with endless cake in order of importance appears to be, Remainers, the EU and the UK Civil Service. Clueless Johnson, Fox, Davis and now Rabb negotiating this are blameless for lack of cake delivery?
 

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Major Brexiter puts money where his mouth is

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45950377

 

Dyson, what a t**t

Yes, what a t**t eh?

Turnover grew by 40% in 2017 reaching £3.5 billion resulting in record high profits, a growth of 27% £801 million.

In 2017 Dyson produced its 100 millionth machine with a manufacturing boom hitting 80000 machines a day.

In the last 5 years the company has increased its British workforce 2.5 times and now employs 4600 people in the UK.

Dyson is looking to hire 300 engineers to help develop his car and to this end has invested £31 million in the UK to aid in their education.

Dyson is now participating in aerospace projects.

Yes definitely a t**t 

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Major Brexiter puts money where his mouth is

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45950377

 

Dyson, what a t**t

I don't see what is confusing about this.

 

Dyson is investing 2 billion in Singapore instead of the UK.

 

We have battery technology in spades and are phasing out combustion engines quite rapidly.

 

He bangs on about Brexit and then fails to support the UK. Malaysia I could understand but Singapore? What?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Yes, what a t**t eh?

Turnover grew by 40% in 2017 reaching £3.5 billion resulting in record high profits, a growth of 27% £801 million.

In 2017 Dyson produced its 100 millionth machine with a manufacturing boom hitting 80000 machines a day.

In the last 5 years the company has increased its British workforce 2.5 times and now employs 4600 people in the UK.

Dyson is looking to hire 300 engineers to help develop his car and to this end has invested £31 million in the UK to aid in their education.

Dyson is now participating in aerospace projects.

Yes definitely a t**t 

 

 

Presumably he will educate his engineers in Singapore ????

 

What a traitor

 

If you know anything about Singapore you will know that it is no exemplar of a civilised country. Good to hear he's vacuuming up lots of profits. He will need them when I start my social media boycott of Dyson gadgets.

[Huayrat]

I'm sure 52% is a higher number than 48% hmmmm

[Grouse]

Quote from upthe clarets

 

Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:32 pm 

He's a prick of the highest order. Bangs on about Brexit but gets all his gear made abroad. Traitor.

 

Interesting to note that Dyson fans, all solid Brexiters, you know, the Ones who bang on about loyalty to the UK, just love a traitor 

[vinny41]

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

And others were told it didn'r mean that, and there would be a Free Trade Deal on par with the present arrangement plus all manner of other things. 

 

You can't be so selective.  The fact is there was a polyphonic message from Leave who promised everything to everyone.

 

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

And I have posted quotes from senior leavers who promised a replacement free trade deal. Face it, 'pie in the sky' promises were made to everyone.

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

And I have posted quotes from senior leavers who promised a replacement free trade deal. Face it, 'pie in the sky' promises were made to everyone.

Do you have any links from before the EU referendum to support your posts

Talk about Free Trades deals were items that Vote leave hoping to achieve as part of the post brexit eu negotiations not promises

19 April 2016 EU referendum: Assessing what Michael Gove said on trade deals

Michael Gove, the cabinet's leading Eurosceptic, has refused to commit the campaign to quit the EU to the goal of uninterrupted membership of the European single market.

 

In an interview with Nick Robinson on Radio 4's Today programme, the justice secretary would only say the UK would "be part of the EU free trade zone" and would "have access to the countries of the single market being in a free trade zone".

Mr Gove's remarks further clarify the Leave campaign's approach to any future trade deal between Britain and the EU.

His comments rule out any idea of a post-Brexit UK government seeking to replicate a trade deal on the lines of Norway or Switzerland, which offer free access to EU markets, but which also commit those countries to pay contributions to the EU budget and free movement of EU citizens across borders.

• Live: EU referendum debate

Sources in the Vote Leave campaign make clear that Mr Gove's and their own vision of a future trading relationship amounts to "redefining the single market, not walking away from it".

In other words, they hope to realise an unprecedented deal in which the UK trades with European states free of tariff and non-tariff barriers, but without commitment to the full range of EU trading rules which, in turn, would expose the UK to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36080568

[aright]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I don't see what is confusing about this.

 

Dyson is investing 2 billion in Singapore instead of the UK.

 

We have battery technology in spades and are phasing out combustion engines quite rapidly.

 

He bangs on about Brexit and then fails to support the UK. Malaysia I could understand but Singapore? What?

Nothing confusing about it. He owns the business and knows better than you and me what is best for his business. I pointed out to you some time ago I am not in the business of providing employment for people that's the governments job by providing the right financial, social and political(????) environment. . I am in the business of providing quality competitive widgets. I am sure he feels the same way.

Brexit has nothing to do with it , I suspect he chose Singapore because of its proximity to China and a major source of parts and 73% of his growth was in Asia in 2017. Because he feels Brexit is good for the UK it does not follow it is necessarily good for his business.

As for battery technology he has it in spades as well He no longer produces mains powered machines all future production will be battery driven.

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

 

With Brexiters someone else always has to be to blame for their frustration. If you take on a course of action such as Brexit without any plan, or even any clear objective of where you want to go, it just generates endless frustration.

 

If one has an argument with one’s partner, shouts 'I am leaving' and, with that, exits slamming the door and finds oneself in the street in the rain without a raincoat, I suspect some Brexiters would blame the weather forecasters or the local council for their predicament.

 

At the moment the blame for Brexit not being delivered with endless cake in order of importance appears to be, Remainers, the EU and the UK Civil Service. Clueless Johnson, Fox, Davis and now Rabb negotiating this are blameless for lack of cake delivery?
 

[Grouse]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/23/dyson-to-build-electric-cars-in-singapore-with-launch-planned-for-2021

 

Ill leave it to others to pick the bones out of that 

 

However, if I may be permitted by our Brexiter interlocutors, I note a key reason for Dyson (who will never be sir) was that he wanted to be close to his markets! Anybody recall the gravitational theory of international trade and how the Brexiters claim it to be nonsense? You know, that underlying principle of Japanese automotive investment in the U.K.?

 

Im off for a beer. I may be some time. If I see a Dyson handrier it may not survive the encounter 

[aright]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Presumably he will educate his engineers in Singapore ????

 

What a traitor

 

If you know anything about Singapore you will know that it is no exemplar of a civilised country. Good to hear he's vacuuming up lots of profits. He will need them when I start my social media boycott of Dyson gadgets.

You need to keep up

 

https://www.dysoninstitute.com/

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Nothing confusing about it. He owns the business and knows better than you and me what is best for his business. I pointed out to you some time ago I am not in the business of providing employment for people that's the governments job by providing the right financial, social and political(????) environment. . I am in the business of providing quality competitive widgets. I am sure he feels the same way.

Brexit has nothing to do with it , I suspect he chose Singapore because of its proximity to China and a major source of parts and 73% of his growth was in Asia in 2017. Because he feels Brexit is good for the UK it does not follow it is necessarily good for his business.

As for battery technology he has it in spades as well He no longer produces mains powered machines all future production will be battery driven.

 

He just took a 50M hit on a battery investment. He thought U2 was a battery.

 

Only 72% growth? I heard he sold 4 vacuums in Bhutan, up from 2. Now that's real growth.

 

you do realise that 78% of statistics are just made up?

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, aright said:

You need to keep up

 

https://www.dysoninstitute.com/

Oh, I'm ahead of all that

 

I know the Imperial connection ( ironic eh?)

 

Dyson is an arts man. He doesn't really understand the difference between technicians and engineers

 

He doesn't realise that an electric motor and battery is a small part of an automobile.

 

He should develop his car in the UK where we have world class expertise and manufacture in several locations

 

I shan't be buying an orange plastic cart from him.

 

"The Dyson Institute of Engineering and Technology is unlike any university"

 

Nicely put. Nothing wrong with polytechnics though. Pass the screwdriver!

Edited October 23, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, aright said:

Nothing confusing about it. He owns the business and knows better than you and me what is best for his business. I pointed out to you some time ago I am not in the business of providing employment for people that's the governments job by providing the right financial, social and political(????) environment. . I am in the business of providing quality competitive widgets. I am sure he feels the same way.

Brexit has nothing to do with it , I suspect he chose Singapore because of its proximity to China and a major source of parts and 73% of his growth was in Asia in 2017. Because he feels Brexit is good for the UK it does not follow it is necessarily good for his business.

As for battery technology he has it in spades as well He no longer produces mains powered machines all future production will be battery driven.

 

Ah! Solar powered and wind powered vacuum cleaners. Splendid!

[mommysboy]

23 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

Do you have any links from before the EU referendum to support your posts

Talk about Free Trades deals were items that Vote leave hoping to achieve as part of the post brexit eu negotiations not promises

19 April 2016 EU referendum: Assessing what Michael Gove said on trade deals

Michael Gove, the cabinet's leading Eurosceptic, has refused to commit the campaign to quit the EU to the goal of uninterrupted membership of the European single market.

 

In an interview with Nick Robinson on Radio 4's Today programme, the justice secretary would only say the UK would "be part of the EU free trade zone" and would "have access to the countries of the single market being in a free trade zone".

Mr Gove's remarks further clarify the Leave campaign's approach to any future trade deal between Britain and the EU.

His comments rule out any idea of a post-Brexit UK government seeking to replicate a trade deal on the lines of Norway or Switzerland, which offer free access to EU markets, but which also commit those countries to pay contributions to the EU budget and free movement of EU citizens across borders.

• Live: EU referendum debate

Sources in the Vote Leave campaign make clear that Mr Gove's and their own vision of a future trading relationship amounts to "redefining the single market, not walking away from it".

In other words, they hope to realise an unprecedented deal in which the UK trades with European states free of tariff and non-tariff barriers, but without commitment to the full range of EU trading rules which, in turn, would expose the UK to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36080568

Yes I posted them on the forum about 2 weeks ago. There were a couple before and after.

[aright]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Ah! Solar powered and wind powered vacuum cleaners. Splendid!

Indirectly yes!

Are you out of tablets?????

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Indirectly yes!

Are you out of tablets?????

Funnily enough I'm after an iPad Pro! What a great piece of kit!