UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

 

Interesting info, I am guessing it's correct?

 

If so

Do you think this made much of a difference in the way it went?????

I think RR has explained this beyond reasonable doubt. Scottish people voted for independence 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Incidentally:

 

referendum : singular

referenda : plural

referendi : plural latin

 

referendums- popular but mistaken plural.

 

I think anyway!

It's a gerund so does not have a plural in Latin

 

Many decisions on one topic should be refererendums

 

Multiple decisions on different topics would be referenda in Latin 

 

I reckon

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think RR has explained this beyond reasonable doubt. Scottish people voted for independence 

To be fair to you both, you could well be right. I don't have deep knowledge of that referendum or the electorate demographics etc. and haven't looked in to in a big way, at all.

 

The info given earlier was cited as being from the BBC. I would rather see some information (stats) originating from both governmental and NGO sources and compare before I form an opinion either way. As they'd probably be less open to bias or interpretation than anything coming from the BBC. I wonder who the Beeb's source was in the report RR quoted earlier? 

Edited November 2, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[billd766]

11 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Actually, Brexiteers knew what they were voting for - but Remainers had less of a clue

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/31/actually-brexiteers-knew-voting-remainers-had-much-less-clue/

 

They still don't.

[melvinmelvin]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's a gerund so does not have a plural in Latin

 

Many decisions on one topic should be refererendums

 

Multiple decisions on different topics would be referenda in Latin 

 

I reckon

 

my Oxford says

referendum - noun

plural referendums or referenda

 

 

[Patriot1066]

2 hours ago, Orac said:

 

 

I believe the phrase the Institute of Economic Affairs use is “greater labour force participation at older ages” .


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Well done we are all working longer.

[Patriot1066]

12 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

my Oxford says

referendum - noun

plural referendums or referenda

 

 

Impressive?

[tebee]

15 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

my Oxford says

referendum - noun

plural referendums or referenda

 

 

Because there isn’t a plural gerund in Latin, the two different options for pluralisation have an actual impact on the meaning of the word itself.

 

If ‘referendum’ means ‘referral’, then ‘referendums’ – by its inherent definition – pluralises the actual act of voting, according to the Oxford English Dictionary anyway. Using ‘referendums’, therefore, implies having several ballots on a single issue.

 

The alternative – the attempt to pluralise a Latin word that can’t be pluralised, turning it into ‘referenda’ (just like ‘memoranda’) – implies the other option: the idea of having separate ‘referrals’, i.e. for separate measures.

 

So, going by the Oxford school: ‘referendums’ means separate votes on a single (or perhaps related) issues, while ‘referenda’ means votes on separate issues.

 

 

Source:https://www.dailyedge.ie/lets-figure-this-out-whats-the-real-plural-of-referendum-261522-Oct2013/

 

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

my Oxford says

referendum - noun

plural referendums or referenda

 

 

Nynorsk or Bokmals Oxford dictionary?

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

Because there isn’t a plural gerund in Latin, the two different options for pluralisation have an actual impact on the meaning of the word itself.

 

If ‘referendum’ means ‘referral’, then ‘referendums’ – by its inherent definition – pluralises the actual act of voting, according to the Oxford English Dictionary anyway. Using ‘referendums’, therefore, implies having several ballots on a single issue.

 

The alternative – the attempt to pluralise a Latin word that can’t be pluralised, turning it into ‘referenda’ (just like ‘memoranda’) – implies the other option: the idea of having separate ‘referrals’, i.e. for separate measures.

 

So, going by the Oxford school: ‘referendums’ means separate votes on a single (or perhaps related) issues, while ‘referenda’ means votes on separate issues.

 

 

Source:https://www.dailyedge.ie/lets-figure-this-out-whats-the-real-plural-of-referendum-261522-Oct2013/

 

 

right, ta krap

thy shall learn a lot before the eyes falls out

 

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nynorsk or Bokmals Oxford dictionary?

55555

dunno really, the lot is in English, just have the laptop bit here the paper is in Norway

 

you know,

I liked this comment from tebee re ref/refa/refm/s etc, a comment in my style actually

however, people our age often forget that language is a live animal, it develops - quite rapidly actually

stylus-stylii-stulyses / campus-campii-campuses are different to 60 years olds and 20 years olds,

must accept this

 

bloody silly and costly - small country like Norway having two official languages

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

17 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

right, ta krap

thy shall learn a lot before the eyes falls out

 

having looked around a bit,

 

does gerund and referendum go together at all?

gerund and referending - yes -but we dont say referending

gerund and voting - yes, but vote is sorted in English grammar already

 

have nee problem with tebee's flexing of ref.

but not sure I appreciate the term gerund in his exercises

 

never mind - now - Belhaven and Brexit ..

 

[vinny41]

HANDOUTS FREEZE 

EU migrants should have to wait five years before they can claim benefits in the UK, says Iain Duncan Smith

Report by the European Research Group and launched by the former welfare minister proposes tough new regime post-Brexit

Indeed, the MAC report that of the net fiscal contribution of £4.7bn attributed to EEA migrants, only £300 million came from Eastern Europeans

Working-age benefit payments to EEA nationals 3. The information from HMRC can be combined with data from the DWP released at the same times to give a picture of working-age benefit expenditure on EEA nationals. This amounted to £4.1bn in 2013/14, rising to £4.5bn in 2014/15, and £4.7bn in 2015/16

Free movement for EU tourists, students and the self-sufficient (e.g.: many pensioners) should continue in both directions as they are not competing for work, and have little impact on the permanent population. There should be no restrictions on genuine marriage, (although robust checks should be in place), this could entail the same income requirements as those in place for non EU spouses after the implementation phase

http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ERG-Migration-Final1.pdf

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7387621/eu-migrants-should-have-to-wait-five-years-after-coming-to-the-uk-before-they-can-claim-benefits-says-iain-duncan-smith/

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by vinny41
forgot link

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Why?

When you join a club and later your find out that people born in your country have less rights than foreigners coming into the country  its time to leave that club

[Patriot1066]

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

HANDOUTS FREEZE 

EU migrants should have to wait five years before they can claim benefits in the UK, says Iain Duncan Smith

Report by the European Research Group and launched by the former welfare minister proposes tough new regime post-Brexit

Indeed, the MAC report that of the net fiscal contribution of £4.7bn attributed to EEA migrants, only £300 million came from Eastern Europeans

Working-age benefit payments to EEA nationals 3. The information from HMRC can be combined with data from the DWP released at the same times to give a picture of working-age benefit expenditure on EEA nationals. This amounted to £4.1bn in 2013/14, rising to £4.5bn in 2014/15, and £4.7bn in 2015/16

Free movement for EU tourists, students and the self-sufficient (e.g.: many pensioners) should continue in both directions as they are not competing for work, and have little impact on the permanent population. There should be no restrictions on genuine marriage, (although robust checks should be in place), this could entail the same income requirements as those in place for non EU spouses after the implementation phase

http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ERG-Migration-Final1.pdf

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7387621/eu-migrants-should-have-to-wait-five-years-after-coming-to-the-uk-before-they-can-claim-benefits-says-iain-duncan-smith/

 

 

They should as can come and effectively after three months claim as much as someone who has lived in the UK paying taxes all their life. That cant be fair can it?

[Patriot1066]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

When you join a club and later your find out that people born in your country have less rights than foreigners coming into the country  its time to leave that club

Yes we originally joined a trading partnership not a charity give away?

 

Here is some more information the media tend to forget to tell us about

 

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/facts-migration-immigration-impact-uk-tabloids/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-YORu9W13gIVSrftCh1JygjkEAAYASAAEgJ0j_D_BwE

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

having looked around a bit,

 

does gerund and referendum go together at all?

gerund and referending - yes -but we dont say referending

gerund and voting - yes, but vote is sorted in English grammar already

 

have nee problem with tebee's flexing of ref.

but not sure I appreciate the term gerund in his exercises

 

never mind - now - Belhaven and Brexit ..

 

 

Belhaven in hand, may Scott allow another language "rant",

 

alternative - actually means a choice of two

waddya fancy for brekkie, hotdog or burger? that is 1 alternative

omelette or pancakes? that is another alternative

ie not 4 alternatives

 

-------------

 

at the age of 54 I took a lengthy leave of absence and went back to university to do my 3rd bachelor degree,

great fun, most in my group were 20-25 years of age, some between 25-30, worked out just fine, I can drink the young ones under the table

anyway, in final year a dissertation was required, I did mine with 2 other guys in the group

produced roughly 4-5 hundred quality pages in 5 months, resulting in a *A

but: writing text with 25 year olds was quite an experience

they handled my mother tongue quite differently from me, I was quite shocked actually, they were no nitwits,

we agreed that I would do all the actual typing (most readers would be in my age frame) worked out fine

 

 

 

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

They still don't.

For any remainers' not sure what we voted for here's a link for you to the Government who told us everything we needed to know.

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160815143715/http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160815143715/https://www.eureferendum.gov.uk/

 

Now how could anyone not know that voting leave meant leaving the EU institutions including the customs union?

[Patriot1066]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

That's a huge hairy hat BTW

If Scotland leaves which in my opinion a very good option what about your islands?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-indyref2-shetland-islands-uk-norman-lamont-referendum-a7675666.html

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

To be fair to you both, you could well be right. I don't have deep knowledge of that referendum or the electorate demographics etc. and haven't looked in to in a big way, at all.

 

The info given earlier was cited as being from the BBC. I would rather see some information (stats) originating from both governmental and NGO sources and compare before I form an opinion either way. As they'd probably be less open to bias or interpretation than anything coming from the BBC. I wonder who the Beeb's source was in the report RR quoted earlier?

No the results were quiet clear?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/results

 

Unless you are proposing that those that voted had no legitimate right?

 

Also how will you deal with a hard border with the UK and the removal of all our defence spending in your ship yards. I assume you would try to Join the EU and your citizens would then have to apply for work permits?

 

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

If Scotland leaves which in my opinion a very good option what about your islands?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-indyref2-shetland-islands-uk-norman-lamont-referendum-a7675666.html

Shetlands and Orkneys?

 

Scotland I would guess.

 

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yes we originally joined a trading partnership not a charity give away?

 

Here is some more information the media tend to forget to tell us about

 

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/facts-migration-immigration-impact-uk-tabloids/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-YORu9W13gIVSrftCh1JygjkEAAYASAAEgJ0j_D_BwE

I think your missing the point

How is this fair?': readers on the non-European spouses income ruling

We hear from citizens as the UK’s supreme court ruling backed the £18,600 earning threshold for non-European spouses

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/how-is-this-fair-readers-on-the-non-european-spouses-income-ruling

 

Example 2 British passport holders got married in BKK last week to 2 Thai women

1 of the British passport holder is British born live in the UK all his life earns approx £15,000 per year

the other British passport holder was born In Germany Move to the UK acquired  British citizenship also earns £15,000 per year

Which British passport holder will be allowed to bring their spouse to the UK

 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

It's a gerund so does not have a plural in Latin

 

Many decisions on one topic should be refererendums

 

Multiple decisions on different topics would be referenda in Latin 

 

I reckon

I hate 'em anyway.  And indeed the correct word proves as ill-defined as Brexit.  You're about right:

 

This is a good piece I googled:

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/why-the-plural-of-referendum-must-be-referendums/

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

having looked around a bit,

 

does gerund and referendum go together at all?

gerund and referending - yes -but we dont say referending

gerund and voting - yes, but vote is sorted in English grammar already

 

have nee problem with tebee's flexing of ref.

but not sure I appreciate the term gerund in his exercises

 

never mind - now - Belhaven and Brexit ..

 

Yes, I am having trouble accepting it as a gerund/gerund phrase-  as in swimming or playing football.

 

Can anyone provide a 'dummy's explanation?'

 

Edit: Just seen it is derived from a verb: to refer.  It has only in recent times been used as a pure noun.

Edited November 2, 2018 by mommysboy

[Patriot1066]

15 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Shetlands and Orkneys?

 

Scotland I would guess.

 

Orkney? looks like they might go independent?

 

 

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Orkney? looks like they might go independent?

 

 

This has been overlooked.  Not only is Scotland as split on independence as UK is on Brexit, but some regions are staunchly pro UK.

 

Any further referendum would surely have to be by super-majority and by block (as the ill starred Brexit should have been).  Otherwise we're in a bugger's muddle again.

[Patriot1066]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I think your missing the point

How is this fair?': readers on the non-European spouses income ruling

We hear from citizens as the UK’s supreme court ruling backed the £18,600 earning threshold for non-European spouses

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/how-is-this-fair-readers-on-the-non-european-spouses-income-ruling

 

Example 2 British passport holders got married in BKK last week to 2 Thai women

1 of the British passport holder is British born live in the UK all his life earns approx £15,000 per year

the other British passport holder was born In Germany Move to the UK acquired  British citizenship also earns £15,000 per year

Which British passport holder will be allowed to bring their spouse to the UK

 

No sorry I was not criticising you, the rules are unfair as EU citizens have more rights than we do that is perfectly a true argument and quiet correct. Sorry if my comment was not clear ????

 

Unfortunately, we were netted in what was a rule designed to stop mainly Pakistanis in the North of England marrying from little villages on the Indian Sub Continent, bringing their 'partners' in who they had not even met divorcing them once the passport was issued doing it again and again. Possibly the reason we now have so many 'Asian' sorry predominantly 'Pakistani men' raping so many English white girls. They generally have some connection from their villages they originated from.

 

The rule is unfair but before it was horrendous in our Northern towns with 'New English' appearing on a massive scale.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/19/immigration-proxy-marriage-misuse

Or

https://www.stopukmarriagefraud.com/

Or

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944306/One-thousand-fraudsters-wed-British-women-visas-not-ONE-deported-Home-Office-shambles.html

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

This has been overlooked.  Not only is Scotland as split on independence as UK is on Brexit, but some regions are staunchly pro UK.

 

Any further referendum would surely have to be by super-majority and by block (as the ill starred Brexit should have been).  Otherwise we're in a bugger's muddle again.

Agreed

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Orkney? looks like they might go independent?

 

 

 

dunno but I have read some pretty elaborate newspaper features re this, this year

seems to be a rather large and growing group in the Orkneys (and Shetlands) desiring independence,

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

When you join a club and later your find out that people born in your country have less rights than foreigners coming into the country  its time to leave that club

What tosh

 

Its an international club

 

You think we should have more rights than others?

 

You are 100 years out of date