UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

what would their other options be?

 

Vote as they are supposed to.

 

Vote for what they believe is in the true interests of their constituents. Their interests may not be what they think or say of course.

 

In fact, many MPs will go with what a majority of their constituents state. And thus save their seat.

 

That is how OUR representative democracy should work. See Burke et al

 

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch13s7.html

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Grouse

[adammike]

4 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

People are unaffected,  just as they have been since the Common Travel Area was created around 1923.

 

The WTO does not require a hard border, but customs controls will be necessary of course.  We already have controls operating for UK-Irish trade. Extending these without a hard border post-Brexit is considered by many to not be an issue. But May has allowed this to be turned into a key issue, for reasons best known to her. I have answered the main questions regarding the Irish border fairly extensively over the last couple of months. The links and quotes that I have posted should answer all your questions.

The UK will become a "third country" if and when they leave there will then be a land border on the Island of Ireland,it could get messy as the British and Irish may be free in theory to continue to travel unhindered between the republic and England but their will have to be checks so remind me how That's done.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

So would you rather get your news from a press that’s cynical or gullible?

For sure I would rather get my news from nutcase Conspiracy Theory websites permanently bleating on about the national press.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

So why did they vote to enact article 50?

Because the Supreme Court overruled the anti-parliamentary tactics of the Brexiteers who wanted to cut out Parliament from the process.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

I thought I explained my opinion of spineless (or ignorant) MPs. They should do the right thing and vote according to their conscience 

 

As far as the corrolation is concerned, the evidence from the statistics is compelling. Furthermore, you surely can not contest that my point is born out in practice! Watch the TV, listen to the Radio, read quality press, contribute to TV. Brighter people (excluding the cynical bastards) tend toward remain.....But you know that!

Watch out you'll have Pat Condell after you (see youtube).

 

Generally, the better educated and better off people voted for remain, and younger people too.  Age trumped education imo.

[vogie]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I thought I explained my opinion of spineless (or ignorant) MPs. They should do the right thing and vote according to their conscience 

 

As far as the corrolation is concerned, the evidence from the statistics is compelling. Furthermore, you surely can not contest that my point is born out in practice! Watch the TV, listen to the Radio, read quality press, contribute to TV. Brighter people (excluding the cynical bastards) tend toward remain.....But you know that!

And in the interest of balance, here are some of your brighter people. 

 

 

[vinny41]

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Ronald rocking but not rolling.

 

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071It

If you have checked the link the petition has already reached over 100,000 and has received a response from the 

Government responded This response was given on 6 November 2018

People adding their names now isn't going to make any  difference 

[mommysboy]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1043537/Brexit-news-update-Theresa-May-Chequers-EU-Brexit-deal-Sir-Bill-Cash

 

I must say this Brexit deal does more and more appear as a one woman show.

 

Does anyone really want this deal?

 

If it had not been so crudely contrived, I'd almost be sold on no deal being better, because at least one side gets satisfied????

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you have checked the link the petition has already reached over 100,000 and has received a response from the 

Government responded This response was given on 6 November 2018

People adding their names now isn't going to make any  difference 

I did and I must agree you are probably right.

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I thought I explained my opinion of spineless (or ignorant) MPs. They should do the right thing and vote according to their conscience 

 

As far as the corrolation is concerned, the evidence from the statistics is compelling. Furthermore, you surely can not contest that my point is born out in practice! Watch the TV, listen to the Radio, read quality press, contribute to TV. Brighter people (excluding the cynical bastards) tend toward remain.....But you know that!

If they did they could be liable for breach of contract wouldn't it interesting if MP's voted the way you want them to vote and then the supreme court overturns the vote ans states the vote results are null and void

Your part of a multi national team from a company that currently is trying to take over one of its competitors, now you have seen the proposed new 5 year plan of the merged companies and you are aware that there will be 75% job losses from the company that being taken over. now the company that is being taken over isn't aware of this 5 year plan and isn't aware of the potential job losses, now your conscience kicks in and 1 part of you thinks maybe I should advise someone off the record of the planned job losses  then the other part of you kicks in you could lose your job, you more than likely be blacklisted from every working in the same industry or any industry again as you would be known as someone that can't be trusted with confidential information even worse you could be sacked and sued by the company that you work for for full costs of the merger and subsequent losses as a result if the merger not taking place

Its simple if a MP doesn't feel they can vote in the direction that they have been given by the majority of their constituents’

they should announce that and stand down for relection  knowing they might lose their fat cats salary and other benefits that they received

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

........

Its simple if a MP doesn't feel they can vote in the direction that they have been given by the majority of their constituents’

they should announce that and stand down for relection  knowing they might lose their fat cats salary and other benefits that they received

Should do this, should do that. All irrelevant waffle.

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Should do this, should do that. All irrelevant waffle.

Yes it would be interesting if a case was taken to the supreme court and a vote to remain was overuled by the supreme court as null and void I know you would be thinking it rrelevant waffle and they can't do it.

[kwilco]

90% of the UKs fruit and veg comes through Calais in this season.....so what do Brexiteers propose to do about that?

[Patriot1066]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

90% of the UKs fruit and veg comes through Calais in this season.....so what do Brexiteers propose to do about that?

What will the EU exporters do like Spain who we buy 40% of their fruit. Do you really think they will sit back and let their produce rot at Calais?

 

They are already in a panic over their tourist trade hence the Gibralter side deal!

[Patriot1066]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Vote as they are supposed to.

 

Vote for what they believe is in the true interests of their constituents. Their interests may not be what they think or say of course.

 

In fact, many MPs will go with what a majority of their constituents state. And thus save their seat.

 

That is how OUR representative democracy should work. See Burke et al

 

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch13s7.html

 

I wish all those MPs in areas that voted leave mostly Labour, would read that, when they try to frustrate Brexit.

 

It will be interesting what happens if there is anouther vote which is unlikely but possible.

 

Further, if the vote reversed, how could that move the country on with so much division? When would the third vote be?

 

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, kwilco said:

90% of the UKs fruit and veg comes through Calais in this season.....so what do Brexiteers propose to do about that?

DIg for Victory

The ‘Dig for Victory’ campaign was set up during WWII by the British Ministry of Agriculture. Men and women across the country were encouraged to grow their own food in times of harsh rationing. Open spaces everywhere were transformed into allotments, from domestic gardens to public parks – even the lawns outside the Tower of London were turned into vegetable patches.  Leaflets, such as the one shown here, were part of a massive propaganda campaign aiming both to ensure that people had enough to eat, and that morale was kept high. The current recession, as well as a new awareness of ‘food miles’ and climate change, has increased the demand for vegetable growing plots and the trend is supported by new, comparable government initiatives.

http://www.bl.uk/learning/timeline/item107597.html

[Patriot1066]

I listened to LBC radio today and a City financier put the EU issue in the context of a three legged stool, each leg representing Germany France and the UK as the main contributors with everyone else on the stool. Sort of the three pillars. He seemed to think take away our leg I.E. our what will be 20 billion a year by 2020, it all falls over, as Germany has to contribute more and the German banks are heavily holding Itallia liabilities.

 

interstingbto listen to someone who was a remainer, but suggest the EU was probably screwed if we leave!

[Patriot1066]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

DIg for Victory

The ‘Dig for Victory’ campaign was set up during WWII by the British Ministry of Agriculture. Men and women across the country were encouraged to grow their own food in times of harsh rationing. Open spaces everywhere were transformed into allotments, from domestic gardens to public parks – even the lawns outside the Tower of London were turned into vegetable patches.  Leaflets, such as the one shown here, were part of a massive propaganda campaign aiming both to ensure that people had enough to eat, and that morale was kept high. The current recession, as well as a new awareness of ‘food miles’ and climate change, has increased the demand for vegetable growing plots and the trend is supported by new, comparable government initiatives.

http://www.bl.uk/learning/timeline/item107597.html

Yes very accurate, although I doubt it could be done now. Although allotments are becoming harder to get so maybee it could.

 

i doubt it will happen as whilst Barnier and Tusk want to make it impossible for us, their food exporters will go bankrupt if they take away our market.

 

Furthermore, when we leave the EU will not have our massive ecconomy to negotiate their trade deals as it takes a lot of their poorer small countries to equal our ecconomic clout.

[vinny41]

14 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yes very accurate, although I doubt it could be done now. Although allotments are becoming harder to get so maybee it could.

 

i doubt it will happen as whilst Barnier and Tusk want to make it impossible for us, their food exporters will go bankrupt if they take away our market.

 

Furthermore, when we leave the EU will not have our massive ecconomy to negotiate their trade deals as it takes a lot of their poorer small countries to equal our ecconomic clout.

I think it could In addition to allotments  use Royal Parks In London council parks right across the country  turn national parks into Huge Farms or for rearing lifestock During ww2 there was gardens called Victory Gardens

The Largest Problem is once everyone starts growing their own and future trade deals would be stuffed as there would be no need unless home grown supplies produce a surplus 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_garden

There would be some unhappy food supply growers in Europe plus ,Haulage companies, SuperMarkets 

 

If There was a law passed that all landowners with gardens are required by law to set aside 50% of their land for growing of Vegatables and they were required to produce a minimum amount of food but in return they would receive a 25% council tax rebate while the landowners that didn't set asdide 50% of their land would be subject to a surcharge of 25% on their council tax People would be growing Vegatables in their droves 

Edited November 10, 2018 by vinny41

[Patriot1066]

31 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I think it could In addition to allotments  use Royal Parks In London council parks right across the country  turn national parks into Huge Farms or for rearing lifestock During ww2 there was gardens called Victory Gardens

The Largest Problem is once everyone starts growing their own and future trade deals would be stuffed as there would be no need unless home grown supplies produce a surplus 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_garden

There would be some unhappy food supply growers in Europe plus ,Haulage companies, SuperMarkets 

 

If There was a law passed that all landowners with gardens are required by law to set aside 50% of their land for growing of Vegatables and they were required to produce a minimum amount of food but in return they would receive a 25% council tax rebate while the landowners that didn't set asdide 50% of their land would be subject to a surcharge of 25% on their council tax People would be growing Vegatables in their droves 

Actually we should be encouraging this in any case. But can you imagine the big farming groups like Arla and others such as Monsata, they would be lobbying to stop it!

 

My local allotment society seem quit able to expand their areas.

 

http://www.mhgas.btck.co.uk/Allotment

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Actually we should be encouraging this in any case. But can you imagine the big farming groups like Arla and others such as Monsata, they would be lobbying to stop it!

 

My local allotment society seem quit able to expand their areas.

 

http://www.mhgas.btck.co.uk/Allotment

It would be interesting would the remoners refuse to take part on principle and pay the extra 25% council tax or take part for the 25% saving on council tax

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

What will the EU exporters do like Spain who we buy 40% of their fruit. Do you really think they will sit back and let their produce rot at Calais?

 

They are already in a panic over their tourist trade hence the Gibralter side deal!

So...whatI will they do?

[kwilco]

"A project of unmitigated criminal folly"

 

Succinctly put by Matthew Parris.

[kwilco]

30 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It would be interesting would the remoners refuse to take part on principle and pay the extra 25% council tax or take part for the 25% saving on council tax

So where in the last 40 years do you get that?

[adammike]

33 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Actually we should be encouraging this in any case. But can you imagine the big farming groups like Arla and others such as Monsata, they would be lobbying to stop it!

 

My local allotment society seem quit able to expand their areas.

 

http://www.mhgas.btck.co.uk/Allotment

60 odd million Fed from gardens,where you gonna park all those cars that now park in what were once front gardens? How much smaller was this years harvest after the cold winter and record breaking hot summer? Your gonna need a lot of compost heaps.

[vinny41]

24 minutes ago, adammike said:

60 odd million Fed from gardens,where you gonna park all those cars that now park in what were once front gardens? How much smaller was this years harvest after the cold winter and record breaking hot summer? Your gonna need a lot of compost heaps.

Never known anyone to grow Vegatables or Fruit in their Front Gardens,  Most people used their large back gardens for growing Veg or Fruit, Imagine how many alloments could be created in London by using the Royal Parks and Local Authority Parks .

It must be disheartening for Project Fear when ever they find a reason not to support Brexit only for someone to come along an suggest an alternative solution which will be better for the whole country.

We are warn many times about children obesity, Children 'at risk' from not eating vegetables, education authority can't afford vegetables Simple Dig for Victory

[vinny41]

37 minutes ago, kwilco said:

So where in the last 40 years do you get that?

your post makes no sense whatever which i guess is why you posted your reply

[vinny41]

54 minutes ago, kwilco said:

"A project of unmitigated criminal folly"

 

Succinctly put by Matthew Parris.

I did wonder why you quote a phrase from someone without a link could it be you had something to hide here the link for everyone to see and understand why you didn't provide a link

https://twitter.com/RemainiacsCast

The podcast for people who won't just shut up and accept Brexit

[My Thai Life]

11 hours ago, adammike said:

The UK will become a "third country" if and when they leave there will then be a land border on the Island of Ireland,it could get messy as the British and Irish may be free in theory to continue to travel unhindered between the republic and England but their will have to be checks so remind me how That's done.

Yes the UK will become a third country. The UK-Ireland Common Travel Area has been in place since 1923 and it will continue to operate after the UK leaves the EU, as I have confirmed several times on this thread. Had you ever travelled between UK and Ireland you would be able to answer your own question.

 

This arrangement applies to UK-Ireland only. Perhaps you know that Ireland is not in Schengen, has no land border with the EU, and is an island to the west of England-Scotland-Wales.

Edited November 11, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, vinny41 said:

If they did they could be liable for breach of contract wouldn't it interesting if MP's voted the way you want them to vote and then the supreme court overturns the vote ans states the vote results are null and void

Your part of a multi national team from a company that currently is trying to take over one of its competitors, now you have seen the proposed new 5 year plan of the merged companies and you are aware that there will be 75% job losses from the company that being taken over. now the company that is being taken over isn't aware of this 5 year plan and isn't aware of the potential job losses, now your conscience kicks in and 1 part of you thinks maybe I should advise someone off the record of the planned job losses  then the other part of you kicks in you could lose your job, you more than likely be blacklisted from every working in the same industry or any industry again as you would be known as someone that can't be trusted with confidential information even worse you could be sacked and sued by the company that you work for for full costs of the merger and subsequent losses as a result if the merger not taking place

Its simple if a MP doesn't feel they can vote in the direction that they have been given by the majority of their constituents’

they should announce that and stand down for relection  knowing they might lose their fat cats salary and other benefits that they received

Once again you appear not to understand our representative democracy. May be you should educate yourself on that?

 

MPs salaries are not excessive but maybe more care should be taken in choosing which one should represent you. More well qualified independents would be good