Study raises concerns about young Muay Thai fighters

[lvr181]

5 hours ago, chopin2 said:

Perhaps less obvious is that football also can cause similar brain injuries, but in this case it's more difficult to protect oneself since you actually use your head to pass or shot for goal.

Surely caused a head injury problem for Neymar(?) shown by his onfield staged and faked injuries in order to get the other side penalised! He's not the only one. Yup, a definite brain problem there.

[wotsdermatter]

As a Clinical Psychologist, I would ask where her statistics came from, especially those concerning the numbers spouted regarding obtaining a university degree and those about finishing high school.  The normal average IQ is between 90 and 110.  Having been called in to assist students from universities, high schools, and below with problems of education, I would say that her perceptions are  incorrect about the levels stated, unless she is willing to disclose her sources.   From my observations, contradictory to many stated perceptions on this platform, Thais are no less capable  than there counterparts in other countries.  Rather, they seem that way because of the education system and the constant bombardments pertaining to Thailand, and thus Thais, as being unique and the everlasting barrage of Buddhism they must learn to live with but not necessary adhere to.  

[spermwhale]

5 hours ago, chopin2 said:

Perhaps less obvious is that football also can cause similar brain injuries, but in this case it's more difficult to protect oneself since you actually use your head to pass or shot for goal.

No comparison at all 

[oslooskar]

47 minutes ago, RobertH said:

Actually, head guards make the situation worse.

Head guards protect against accidental headbutts in sparring and that's about it.

[lvr181]

1 minute ago, spermwhale said:

No comparison at all 

Why not?

[hotchilli]

It's simply the allure of some money, not always easy money but for some families the chance of a better life...

yes I say families... not just for the boxer young or otherwise.. often extended families are looking for extra income.

But if a he's a youngster you can bet only some of the finances gained might be used for education, usually the parent/s are unscrupulous or plain lazy, then the winnings will go to running the home. 

[connda]

In 2018 you're telling me that in order for the populace to understand the physical damage that full contact martial arts do to a developing human body that an official study needs to be made?  At a minimum those 15 and under should be wearing protective gear (head-gear, heavy, oversizes gloves, foot pads) and rounds should be scored based on technical points scored as opposed to the physical damage done to the opponent.  After 18?  Then it's the individual's decision.

 

On the flip side, there is also a certain amount of risk to any sport at an early age.  How many kids playing American football, especially defensive linemen, end up with concussions at an early age?  Quite a few.  And they have helmets to boot. 

You can't bubble-wrap your kids before sending them out of the out to play sports.  Risk of injury is inherent with participating in sports.  That's just the reality of life.  The other option is to hand your kid a iPhone and watch them become a human donut.  And that ain't healthy either.

Edited August 13, 2018 by connda

[trianglechoke]

7 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

Maybe the use of a head guard might help for the younger ones. 

Not in the slightest and is proven to make the impact spread. This is EXACTLY why Olympic boxers are now head guard free.

 

As an ex-fighter myself slowly experiencing memory issues that my friends and tell me about as I can't remember them when they happen..... The truth is... if one chooses a combat sports life, one chooses brain damage.... 

Think about it, let me kick you in the head 50 times a month for a decade.... Does anyone here NOT expect damage? 

We sparred gently on the whole but the brain doesn't need much skull bounce in its liquid, couple this with the social gold u get for being a warrior..... I came back after 13 yeas out at 42, I won but the headache seemed to last weeks that time.................... Watch ko videos of guys koed and then trainers ragging their heads around to wake them u......... Can't believe I actually did all that.... ade me the man I am today............... unfortunately 

[trianglechoke]

40 minutes ago, wotsdermatter said:

As a Clinical Psychologist, I would ask where her statistics came from, especially those concerning the numbers spouted regarding obtaining a university degree and those about finishing high school.  The normal average IQ is between 90 and 110.  Having been called in to assist students from universities, high schools, and below with problems of education, I would say that her perceptions are  incorrect about the levels stated, unless she is willing to disclose her sources.   From my observations, contradictory to many stated perceptions on this platform, Thais are no less capable  than there counterparts in other countries.  Rather, they seem that way because of the education system and the constant bombardments pertaining to Thailand, and thus Thais, as being unique and the everlasting barrage of Buddhism they must learn to live with but not necessary adhere to.  

prove it, Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong blah blah.

Isn't it possible that some humans are less capable and isn't is likely that some humans have genetic differences which manifest in the brain. Isn't it possible that 90 and 110 IQ's are massively different and those at 110, which is way above world average, can operate in a way that those at 90 simply can't?

110 to 90 represents almost a 20% difference and u are saying it has no effect?

 

One struggles to believe u sir

[sawadee1947]

Well, this problem exists since centuries. That is why IQs are so low in Thailand. Maybe PM even did too much Thai Boxing in early years? 

[wheelin]

Child muaythai is a very difficult subject. Muaythai fighter is a breed, similar to Siamese fighting fish or fighting cocks.  Law preventing children from this sport is cruel, and shows ignorance to the way of life by these people. A better solution would be regulating how the fight is arranged, and what medical precaution should be made prior to and after the fight.  Referee should be well trained  for refereeing a child bout. Head guard may be manditory for fighters under 15 years of age etc.  But passing law forbidding younger fighters from competition is not a solution.  Some young fighters even cry, girl fighters included, when the stadium cannot match them with a similar weight fighter.

Edited August 13, 2018 by wheelin

[jenny2017]

The study estimated that 200,000 to 300,000 children – some as young as four – were taking part in these boxing competitions nationwide and were getting exposed to injuries, especially to the brain.

 

  It doesn't say something about the amazing "6th round", where the trainer who believes he owns them, beats the <deleted> out of them when they lose a fight. 

[TKDfella]

Well, I suppose all competitive sport can be dangerous in one way or another but of course any type pugilistic sport targets certain areas with the intention of bodily disruption. With youngsters it isn't only the brain that can suffer, bone and muscle development also suffer as bones are not yet in their final stage. Muay Thai is well known for attacks to the lower leg parts as a means of toppling but in youngsters muscle and tendons can get restricted.

[Snow Leopard]

33 minutes ago, trianglechoke said:

Not in the slightest and is proven to make the impact spread. This is EXACTLY why Olympic boxers are now head guard free.

 

As an ex-fighter myself slowly experiencing memory issues that my friends and tell me about as I can't remember them when they happen..... The truth is... if one chooses a combat sports life, one chooses brain damage.... 

Think about it, let me kick you in the head 50 times a month for a decade.... Does anyone here NOT expect damage? 

We sparred gently on the whole but the brain doesn't need much skull bounce in its liquid, couple this with the social gold u get for being a warrior..... I came back after 13 yeas out at 42, I won but the headache seemed to last weeks that time.................... Watch ko videos of guys koed and then trainers ragging their heads around to wake them u......... Can't believe I actually did all that.... ade me the man I am today............... unfortunately 

I take your point. Is the one used in Rugby different? Just asking.

[Bob12345]

4 hours ago, bananafish said:

4 year olds cannot hit hard enough to cause harm. I'm not sure what age kids start to be able to hit hard enough to cause potential injury, but it sure as shit isn't 4. 

Well, the 4-year old fight with other 4-year olds.

Maybe they wont be able to hit you hard enough to cause harm, they sure can hit each other hard enough to cause harm, proven by the fact some fights end in KO's.

 

2 hours ago, wazzupnow said:

u ever consider that the kids like it as a sport?? i do! i did the same when i was young never regretted it, i am fine with the remaining parts  of my brain

You started full-contact martial arts competitively at age 4/5? 

And you also reached 100, 200, or over 200 fights at age 18-20?

 

Or did you do some martial arts as a sport once or twice a week, without competing till age 15/16, and even then it was under close supervision?

[kannot]

6 hours ago, chopin2 said:

Perhaps less obvious is that football also can cause similar brain injuries, but in this case it's more difficult to protect oneself since you actually use your head to pass or shot for goal.

and  just how many times in any match would you be using your head to take an impact as opposed to someone trying to smack you in the head with Muay Thai?

[spermwhale]

1 hour ago, lvr181 said:

Why not?

Headers are only occasional in Football. Getting punched and kicked to the head happens constantly in boxing. Most football players ever head the ball in a game. But every muay thai fighter is going to get hit and kicked multiple times in the noggin everytime they are in the ring, not to mentioned practice. 

 

[starky]

5 hours ago, erkho said:

Even if you are correct your posit condemns them to a stereotype and suggests they should live within it. Because there IS NO safe way for children to participate in full contact sports that involve sharp blows to the head,  only people who are of age and have an understanding of the long term effects should be allowed these ridiculous activities. I see kids who look like they are 5 or 6 running and training for Muay Thai and I’m sorry but it’s flat wrong. Receiving continued blows during the development of the brain, does that even sound like that’s ok somehow? Pathetic.

So what options would you suggest for these dirt poor kids with next to zero education? What would you suggest for them to have some chance at fame or opportunity. Or would you prefer they just never got hit (cos boys everywhere fight, play contact sports and do stupid shit) and then just stay in that dirt poor village and take one of the multitude of options that poor uneducated boys have in this country.

[starky]

2 hours ago, kcpattaya said:

Wow. So many brain specialists here...

Well I would say everyone loves to toss Ali up as a reason against so how many of his contempories not just the pros and all the guys he fought against every single kid that grew up boxing in the era who wanted to fight like them. How many of those thousands? Have debilitating brain damage or dysfunction that can be solely related to their involvement in boxing? Just curious. 

[lvr181]

23 minutes ago, spermwhale said:

Headers are only occasional in Football. Getting punched and kicked to the head happens constantly in boxing. Most football players ever head the ball in a game. But every muay thai fighter is going to get hit and kicked multiple times in the noggin everytime they are in the ring, not to mentioned practice. 

 

I understand you but it is not only about "totals" but also what is the cause. Therefore the correlation between Football and boxing (as mentioned by another poster). Just the same as the fitting of air bags to vehicles to decrease head injury trauma. Any head trauma can be dangerous but more likely in some sports more than others.

[starky]

2 hours ago, connda said:

In 2018 you're telling me that in order for the populace to understand the physical damage that full contact martial arts do to a developing human body that an official study needs to be made?  At a minimum those 15 and under should be wearing protective gear (head-gear, heavy, oversizes gloves, foot pads) and rounds should be scored based on technical points scored as opposed to the physical damage done to the opponent.  After 18?  Then it's the individual's decision.

 

On the flip side, there is also a certain amount of risk to any sport at an early age.  How many kids playing American football, especially defensive linemen, end up with concussions at an early age?  Quite a few.  And they have helmets to boot. 

You can't bubble-wrap your kids before sending them out of the out to play sports.  Risk of injury is inherent with participating in sports.  That's just the reality of life.  The other option is to hand your kid a iPhone and watch them become a human donut.  And that ain't healthy either.

I don't know about American football but I grew up playing rugby league. Started playing comp at 5 years old and the whole point was to smash each other as hard as possible. Started karate at 5 boxing at 8 and moved over here at 19 to study Muay Thai. I don't think it is the ideal solution but most boys, at least where I grew up copped thousands of knocks to the head. To extrapolate a bit look at the schools and technical colleges here they are punching on all the time at least with a grounding in a fight sport you may have the discipline to not get stabbed, iron barred or shot when you are 15. Further to that I don't think these studies are extensive enough literally millions of kids are involved in some form of full contact sport, fight sport or martial art worldwide how many of them have a debilitating brain injury?

Edited August 13, 2018 by starky

[Jonmarleesco]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

It also found that young fighters’ IQ scores were lower by 10 points.

No doubt why they're in the ring in the first place.

[kannot]

15 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

I understand you but it is not only about "totals" but also what is the cause. Therefore the correlation between Football and boxing (as mentioned by another poster). Just the same as the fitting of air bags to vehicles to decrease head injury trauma. Any head trauma can be dangerous but more likely in some sports more than others.

it IS  totally  about  "totals"

[BigC]

They make it illegal it shall be forced underground with even more danger as they won’t have to take wounded fighters to hospitals 

[DJ54]

 Mike Tyson would be a good example although I don’t know what his

thought process was prior to boxing....... watched an interview and didn’t seem like a lot going on in the bird cage. 

[pacovl46]

They forgot to mention CTE which all of them will get if they fight long enough.

Edited August 13, 2018 by pacovl46
Fixed typo

[Leef]

Head guards protect against cuts and broken noses but not concussions. When I used them I felt more at risk from concussion due to a limited peripheral vision. 

The figures regarding IQ and child fighters seem unlikely to be caused by actual fighting. Correlation is not the same as causation. Children coming from poor socioeconomic backgrounds living in Thai boxing gyms who lack education are likely to do perform badly on IQ tests. Neurodegenerative problems are likely to manifest later in life. There is no way of making Thai boxing safer for children’s brains unless you change the rules to prohibit head contact below a certain age. Less and shorter rounds would help as it does in amateur boxing compared to professional but unless head shots are banned there will always be concussions and brain disorders. 

[GTgrizzly]

so they want to protect these young ones from getting belted in a fight but don't do anything about protecting them from sickos and podophiles who want the attention of young boys and girls 

[SOTIRIOS]

...that would explain at least a small percentage of 'phenomena' we observe here on a daily basis...

 

...these people grow up.....and.....voila....

[Cereal]

Seriously, how stupid do you have to be, to be incapable of cheating and bribing your way through the complete joke that's the Thai education system? Maybe boxing is their best option. Chances are there isn't a seat waiting for them on the board somewhere.