Thailand Vs Philippines?

[stailmanki]

Always a matter of what you can sacrifice Vs what you get ; endless “brown outs” in Phils. ,,,,,,,,,, unreliable transport, risky at night & so on , , but magical destinations.

I am planning a trip to Baler (Aurora province) looks like the West coast of N.Z. In the future I plan to go to Batanes , looks like Scotland. http://www.aurora.ph/ http://www.philsite.net/batanes.htm

I’ve been in San Fernando ( must be La Union as the other ones at inland Pampanga) , You say it’s like Blackpool , haven’t been there but I remember San Fernando as being a clean & tidy place. Quite a few Australian retirees in Bauang beach area. The further north you go the better in my opinion.

Now as for working or running a business it’s going to be tough but I agree that a well-run hotel in the right location would certainly make money. I managed a small hotel in Manila & the biggest trouble I had was adjusting to the local work practices ; cooks don’t clean ?! cleaners don’t carry bags , etc. The company I worked for made money hand over fist , the mark up on food & drinks is much higher than in the west and if you have a predominantly expat customer base it’s even better. Generally I would say it’s easier in Phils. than Thai , but maybe more risky ( hold ups, kidnapping &c)

As for the charm mentioned , yes certainly Thailand has that along with an oriental vibe that Phils. does not have ( Mexico in Asia) each to their own. It may sound stupid to some but I actually like a little danger with my R&R ; if it’s too safe and too easy to get to it’s usually boring and overrun with morons. ( like Pattaya haha , I live in Jomtien)

Edited January 19, 2012 by stailmanki

[SPIKECM]

Interesting you see the same opportunities in business and have the experience. I just don't know enough about it in the Philippines. I have had enough time in Thailand to keep away from any business ventures, certainly in Chiang Mai. When I see the prices in Boracay, I feel that if I could get a proper land title there, I just cannot see how a small hotel or the likes could fail. There doesn’t seem to be the crime there either. What’s the catch? I dunno. Maybe no one can pay you as none of the bloody ATM machines on the beach work! You got clean air there, a golf course (140 dollars a round!), probably the best beach in the world (I haven’t seen them all!), seafood is great (that wonderful seafood market where you can buy your seafood and get it cooked for you in the surrounding shops. My wife is addicted to crab, so it saves me a fortune), nice people, easy access to Manila…..a lot of plusses.. but it just isn’t Thailand!

Angeles also has big potential too and I imagine easier land title, but it is all a bit Wild West. I had dinner with some people living there some time ago (some posh Italian place…fantastic.. but expensive… they make money!!) and they live encircled with barbed wire in a compound. Even there you’re not safe. It is not a great environment to live a married life either! Similar to Pattaya I guess.

San Juan, where I am now, has got a “had its day” feel to it. It was a bit of an expat place, but there’s not many left.

I think when it boils down to it, your choices to live here would be Manila, Boracay or Angeles. I guess also the biggest problem is that is you have any business here, then “the family” will all gravitate. The extended family in the Philippines knows no limit! I am blessed with the most immediate wonderful in-laws, but when you have a birthday party here it is unbelievable. They come from miles around for a slice of cake and every one is a relative. Inevitably there’s jealousy and not ever one is a good’n. I think the bottom line is that we’re better off as we are in Chiang Mai. Just that life is all a bit too easy there! Maybe you need the odd hold-up to make life exciting!

[onionluke]

If I was empowered with cash and was going to live in the Philippines I would head away down to Siargao , General Luna . I was down there in early ninties and it did feel like the end of the earth . Surf and San Miguel . There was fish and green tomatoe and onion salad every night and the generators shut down shortly after dark , but hey that was paradise . We used to stay at Dado's place . I wonder what it looks like now .

[ClareQuilty]

The Philippines is good for one thing in my opinion - a place to escape Song-Kran.

Not too far away, not too expensive, and no water-throwing.

[wileycoyote]

I'm going to add to my original post here after a little thought and reading the others.

Yes it can be a dangerous place, the police are corrupt and never around when needed. The poverty causes violent crime, scams and other anti social behavior.

But I've lived all my life safely, the city I'm from in Australia is classed as safe, where I live now I'd walk the 20kms to Chiang Rai at night with out a moments qualm, other than carrying a heavy stick to discourage the territorial dogs on the way.

The Philippines appealed to me as it brought out some sort of primeval response to be careful, a feeling of living on the edge.

I agree with sceadugenga,

I never really felt safe in the Philippines ,I was in Manila ,Cebu & Islands,rarely in Mindanao

And thru the Marcos/Aquino & Post Aquino periods ,nothing really changed in either economic change or stability

There is corruption in Thailand,but providing you are law abiding & keep a low profile ,you are safer in Thailand.

I agree with you about living on the edge,balls of the feet at times.sorry to say sceadugenga,I believe it is a younger man's game in the Philipines,I am older and like you happier in the Land of Smiles

[SPIKECM]

....... something else I notice here compared to Thailand. There seems to be gratitude here. Like if you are nice to the Philippine people they generally appreciate respect you. If you behave with any arrogance I could imagine consequences wouldn't be too far off your back. I have seen some of the most unbelievable <deleted> in Thailand breaking every rule and they seem to get off with it. I could imagine that you could easily wind up a Filipino here and as guns are pretty ubiquitous you wouldn't last in the long run. Another reason Thailand is so attractive to so many. The Thais in general don't care as long as you are spending your money. And I've seen plenty of <deleted> with no money and they still seem to survive year after year. In Thailand you can immediately diffuse a situation by being calm, but I can't see that working quite the same here.

I can walk into any provincial entertainment place/bar in Thailand and no matter where I've been, I've never had a problem. I just can't see that being the case in the Philippines.

[SPIKECM]

The poverty here is quite unbelievable. The place is totally dependent on overseas work remittances.....but I reckon if they would give me power for 10 years I could sort the whole place out. I would make a simple start by lining all the police up against a wall and shooting them. That would get rid of most of the criminals. Next I would line up the taxi touts at the airport (who help stop a lucrative tourist industry right when they come off the plane). Eventually you can see my plan would help check the population problem. But you would be left with lots of good people. I would get the movie "religulous" translated into all the languages here, make it compulsory viewing for all and then there would surely be complete understanding when I converted all the churches and mosques to badminton courts or day care centres for kids, whilst their parents started working in the new economy which would have been kick started by shooting all of the old Spanish elite here who control all the commerce. Also as you can see there would be a bright future of employment in a burgeoning arms industry. If you own a chicken factory here, you get more money if you sell abroad, but if a chicken farmer in Thailand wants to export his cheaper produce to the hungry Filipinos, the old elite will find some way to throw a spanner into their container cooler system. I would let Tesco in with open arms. Incredibly no Tesco or the likes here as again the old elite don't want that. You get old dusty Chinese department stores which have check out lines saying "Senior Citizens, Disabled and Pregnant Women Only". Maybe I could introduce a law where every new Tesco supermarket has to have a line for "Religious People", but strictly no more than one line. A pregnant disabled dwarf with a seriously bad attitude (that probably would go without saying) could staff it. All the other lines could say "Infadels Only".

In telecommunications, there's only pseudo competition. Any start up gets swallowed up by the giants to keep prices high. Nowadays the way to get absurdly rich is to control the mobile companies. Every extra one piso a minute makes billions. Look at that Mexican, Carlos Slim. What is he? The richest man in the world? There must be the equivalent here. This is a country of the absurdly rich and the absurdly poor. It is what happens when you deny a country a free market. Nothing much will change though. A free press and a democratic system have made no difference. Once that old cancer, corruption, gets a hold there's not a lot of hope to change anything.

[stailmanki]

So sad in PI ,

The P.I. diaspora , one of the biggest expat workforces in the world , sometimes only coming home once a year. Typhoons, earthquakes, revolutions, Muslim insurgencies , corruption ,,,,,,,,,,

Doing well in business or starting any enterprise is next to impossible. As soon as anyone does well the rest pull together to bring him down.

I was in PI back in the 80s after the Aquino people power revolution , Marcos was deposed and the way forward to prosperity seemed clear , it’s been downhill ever since. 3 or 4 revolutions later ; well in the 80s they used to export rice , now they import from Thailand.

Have you heard of any other country in the world that has an industry recycling/cooking up the stinking left over from the rubbish bins of K.F.C. Mc Ds etc. and selling it again ? ( it’s called Pag Pag)

Edited January 21, 2012 by stailmanki

[TigsyTikkles]

I'm a Filipino who grew up in the Philippines, lived in America for over 5 years and stayed in Thailand for over 2.

What I can say is I initially thought Thailand is more foreigner-friendly but after living in Pattaya, I'm not so sure.

Sure, Pattaya is not the "real Thailand" but neither is Manila the "real Philippines".

So let me compare the 2 shitholes first, Manila vs Pattaya: I've seen an old foreign man beaten until he was unconscious (possibly dead) by 5 local men here in Thailand. I've never seen anyone beaten up even just mildly while living in Manila (and I lived there longer) let alone an old guy versus 5 thugs until he could pass for dead.

Petty crime however is higher in Manila than Pattaya or Bangkok. Expect your mobile phones and bags to be snatched much quicker in Manila than in Pattaya.

But as for violent crimes (murders, random violence), they are by far more prevalent in Pattaya. After only 2 years here: (1) I’ve seen the aforementioned old guy beaten up; (2) Know someone personally who was smashed on the head with a bottle in Pattaya. He woke up the next morning and ended up in a hospital for over a week; and (3) know another guy who was stabbed with a knife while simply walking at night, another random crime in Pattaya.

Remember, I’m comparing the two craziest cities in both countries, Pattaya vs Manila.

As for the provinces, I’d say provinces in Thailand and the Philippines are awesome. To show I’m not biased just because I’m Filipino, I’ll tell you what I like about Thailand more than the PI first.

Thailand has:

• Better food. I really like Thai food. Even though I’m Filipino I do find most of our dishes too oily. I like the clean feeling I get after eating Thai food. I also like how it’s so easy to find cheap and clean food in Thailand.
  
• Cheaper and more diverse shopping (except in the case of Western grocery supplies. You can find more of these in the Philippines). I can’t get over the fabulous night markets here in Thailand. I wish we had them in the Philippines.
  
• Cleaner streets and bathrooms. It’s common to see Filipinos urinate in public areas in the Philippines, sometimes right under a big sign that forbids it!
  
• Better public transportation system. Too crowded in the Philippines and the vehicles are more run down.
  
• International airport. BKK has an amazing airport while NAIA in Manila is horrible.
  
• Better maintenance of beaches and other natural wonders. Note the word “maintenance”. I think Philippine beaches are naturally far more stunning but the government is so corrupt they don’t manage the properties well.
  

The Philippines has:

• Better work ethics. I’ve worked with Filipinos, Americans, Japanese, South Americans and Thais. I’m sorry to say I can get along with them all professionally except for Thais. I have Thai friends but I will never work with a Thai ever again. This is my only main pet peeve in Thailand though.
  
• Better beer. I don’t like Thai beer. I even prefer Lao Beer a lot more than Thai beer. For Asian beer I love Filipino, Japanese and Laotian.
  
• The most gorgeous beaches I’ve seen
  
• Better education (I taught in a private school in Thailand. The teachers were not allowed to flunk students whereas in the Philippines students could easily be set back a grade if they don’t perform well.) I’m talking about private schools here though, could be different if we’re talking public.
  
• Better English and grasp of local and international events
  
• Freedom of Speech and Religion. We can talk crap about our government all day as long as we’re not being libelous. Our Internet is not restricted at all. The best freedom of speech in all of Asia, I dare say. We can choose whatever religion we want. We can make up our own religion every week if we want to! The Catholic Church has a tight grip on the country but nobody is arresting you if you speak against the Church either. Filipinos complain about the RC all the time in public.
  

I’m sure there are more but these are what comes to mind. That being said, I love living in both countries. I even prefer living in either Thailand or the Philippines over America. But I’m one of the lucky ones since I’m materially comfortable here in Asia (not rich, just comfortable). I’ll be moving back to the Philippines this year. I’ll miss Thailand but I’m looking forward to public signs in English as well as not having to do a visa run. LOL J

Edited January 21, 2012 by TigsyTikkles

[PattayaParent]

^I know more people in Manila that have been robbed at knife point and gun point than in Thailand, and also know someone who has been car jacked.

Manila is also famous for kidknappings.

I'd say Manila is much worse than Pattaya, although I never had any problems myself in 4 years there.

[stailmanki]

Thanks to Tigsy Tikkles for a very frank & honest comparison of PI/Thai.

I think that Pattaya/Angeles rather than MNL/Pattaya may have been an interesting pair of cities to compare & maybe BKK/MNL would have been fairer as they are both capitals.

I agree with what Tigsy has written with the exception of the point on the beach enviroment ; I don't think Thailand looks after it's beaches any better than PI.

I very much liked the music scene in PI & also playing 8 ball/pool with the locals ( getting thrashed most times! )

[Debothai]

I have visited the Philippines twice and it is a much much poorer place than Thailand and this is apparent the moment you step into NAIA,. Also, the costs of everything are a bit more than Thailand. The traffic is worse, the dirty streets and rubbish is everywhere, thought the Philippinos on the whole have clean habits at their homes. Lots of beggars, always vigilance for robbers. Dismal food, and everything is run down. Beautiful mountains and beaches. Weather is not so hot as Thailand. Everybody can speak english, but not between themselves, so one can't know what is going on. Everybody wants to extract money and gifts from you. Philippinos usually don't sit on floors as do thais and keep time at their tasteless meals (unlike some thais who eat all day long) Fanatical about religion. Low quality products, nothing worthwile to buy...Nothing worthwhile at their 7-11 s unlike the thai 7-11s. The pinoys are very proud of jolibee a very greasy junk-junk food chain which is by FAR worse than KFC, MacDonalds and Burger King. The San Miguel beer is not bad though...I would recommend the Philippines for a week two weeks visit and maybe to visit the resort islands, where simple accommodation can be found. Philippino ladies very fun-loving and warm...but not for a serious realtionship, in fact they alone can brighten up dull places such as Doha and Dubai...

[PattayaParent]

I haven't been back to visit Phiippines in 12 years (2000) but after being there 4 years I moved to Thailand in 1994 and found Thailand to be more expensive than Philippines but everything to be of better quality, except the beer. San Miguel Super Dry is better than any of the Thai beers and (was) cheaper.

[TigsyTikkles]

Thanks to Tigsy Tikkles for a very frank & honest comparison of PI/Thai.

I think that Pattaya/Angeles rather than MNL/Pattaya may have been an interesting pair of cities to compare & maybe BKK/MNL would have been fairer as they are both capitals.

I agree with what Tigsy has written with the exception of the point on the beach enviroment ; I don't think Thailand looks after it's beaches any better than PI.

I very much liked the music scene in PI & also playing 8 ball/pool with the locals ( getting thrashed most times! )

Thank you as well.

Yes I was thinking too that Angeles is the Pattaya of the Philippines but (1) I've only visited Angeles briefly and (2) Since most people complain about Pattaya as the stinkhole of Thailand and Manila as the stinkhole of the Philippines, I thought it would be easy to compare the worst of the worst in both countries hehe

Yes, Filipinos are great at pool usually as well as singing. What can I say, we're the Hobbits if this was Middle Earth! We like our food, drinks, singing and most of us are short yet can put up a fight hahah

[TigsyTikkles]

^I know more people in Manila that have been robbed at knife point and gun point than in Thailand, and also know someone who has been car jacked.

Manila is also famous for kidknappings.

I'd say Manila is much worse than Pattaya, although I never had any problems myself in 4 years there.

Yes kidnapping true is more common in Manila than Pattaya. But I wouldn't say it's a daily occurence, far from it.

Check out PattayaOne dot net (Which I think is the most honest newspaper in Pattaya. The other publications usually aim to print just the good side of Pattaya to attract more tourists and/or not offfend the police)- the daily news of Pattaya read like a grisly crime novel almost everyday. Decapitated heads, random violence, mob beat up...

In Manila, you'll hear about daily pickpocketing but not violent crimes. This agian is just comparing daily news because I do know Manila has violent crimes too...they're just not as common as Pattaya's. Petty crime is though.

Also, Manila is massive and an older city compared to Pattaya. Imagine, if things don't change, what Pattaya would be like in the future with more people in a denser area.

That being said, I find most of Manila disgusting, it's so dirty. Pattaya is cleaner but has more psychos because of the pool of expats (not all are respectable after all) and local addicts, mafia etc. It's funny though, after living in Manila and Pattaya, the one place in the world I would least dare to walk in alone at night is Downtown Los Angeles! All the crackheads and psychos out there.

[TigsyTikkles]

I haven't been back to visit Phiippines in 12 years (2000) but after being there 4 years I moved to Thailand in 1994 and found Thailand to be more expensive than Philippines but everything to be of better quality, except the beer. San Miguel Super Dry is better than any of the Thai beers and (was) cheaper.

I'm curious, where did you live in the Philippines? I lived on Negros island. Very cheap and clean...a city called Bacolod there was declared cleanest city in all of the Philippines more than once. It's much cleaner than Chiang Mai and other Thai cities outside BKK and Pattaya.

[TigsyTikkles]

To add to places I like in the Philippines: (I cannot stand Manila at all. I didn't grow up there - went to college in the old part of Manila City) I love Bacolod and Sagada. I actually haven't traveled much around the Philippines even though I grew up there. When I return this year I plan to see more of my country.

I heard great things about Bohol. I want to see the chocolate hills, the tarsier and the beaches.

I also heard really amazing things about Davao, it's a big city in Mindanao. A mayor called Duterte used to run it and now his son is the vice mayor and the Dutertes apparently rule with an iron fist. Criminals take fewer risks in Davao. My brother-in-law told me it is the one big city in the Philippines where he knows his cell phone won't be snatched. I heard it's also really clean with a great agriculture industry. The fruits there are delicious and so are the local delicacies like candy made from Davao fruits. My best friend is from Davao and brings me goodies from his city all the time.

Palawan of course is a prime destination too.

Most of all, I love the city of Bacolod. I grew up there. Whereas some people don't miss their hometown, people who grew up in Bacolod always return to this city no matter if they lived for decades in America or Europe. It's not touristy but if I imagine myself to be a Western expat looking to retire in the Philippines, Bacolod will be top of my list. It's cheap and clean. There are taxi cabs to take you places - even two family-owned cab companies you can call 24/7 to pick you up and take you anywhere with no extra cost. The local delicacy is Chicken Inasal, grilled chicken..a far cry from the oily taste associated with most Filipino dishes. Tinola is also served there - chicken stew mixed with local vegetables. Again, not oily and very healthy. A lot of the local cuisines are boiled or grilled with plenty of vegetables.

As soon as your plane lands in Bacolod you'll see it's a far cry from landing in Manila...we're talking a whole other universe. Land in NAIA, Manila and you'll be greeted with traffic jams, pollution, beggars, etc. Land in Negros island (where Bacolod is, it shares the same island with Dumaguete but they’re at opposite ends of this sock-shaped island) and you'll see lush green fields as far as your eyes can see and mountains.

The Cons of Bacolod: (1) There are power outages for a few hours weekly. If you can afford a generator then you’re ok. (2) If a very vibrant night life is what you want, Bacolod isn't for you. There are clubs but they're more like bars. People do enjoy barhopping every weekend but the bars are more cozy than pumping like Walking Street, Pattaya (not a bad thing for some, boring for party animals). It makes for a more quiet and laidback drinking atmosphere. But then again, most retirees would love this. I'm far from retiring but I prefer quiet cities over big cities with a bustling nightlife anytime. (3) There aren’t a lot of expats yet. Koreans come to study English in Bacolod, a lot of them preferring it over Manila since it’s much safer and cheaper. But the expat community will take some time to grow. Maybe not also a bad thing in some respects since locals keep the prices down.

~~~~~~~

I asked a German recently who lived in Bacolod for a whole year if he liked it. He said yes because it not a big city but it’s not a small town either. There are several hospitals. A family member went through a major operation, an organ transplant, in Bacolod last year and it went very well. Medical care by SE Asian standards is very good. The best doctors train in America regularly. There are some very wealthy families who live in this city and invest in it.

Last, a big pro for beer-lovers and those with sweet tooth, the island Bacolod is on has a lot of sugarcane plantations. Expect delicious sweet delicacies found only in this part of the world. Beer tastes very fresh because the San Miguel plantation right in Bacolod is made with the local sugar and delivered to the bars straight from the factory.

October is the best time to go as a tourist because of the festive Maskara festival. A beer garden is put up on major street, which is blocked off for days.

I highly suggest going to Wikipedia's site and searching "Bacolod Philippines". The city's standard of living is ranked higher than that of any other mid-sized city in the Philippines including Baguio. It was also called "Best place to live in the Philippines" by a financial magazine.Etc...

Edited January 23, 2012 by TigsyTikkles

[SPIKECM]

I heard great things about Bohol. I want to see the chocolate hills, the tarsier and the beaches.

The Chocolate Hills as far as I remember isn’t something to get too excited about. It was a 3 hour drive from where we were and at the end of the journey we were attacked by kids selling all the usual tourist rubbish. We saw some nicely strange round hills above their heads, then it was time to go back home. This must have been about 17 years ago, but I doubt if anything has changed! Even the kids won’t have gotten any older. Just their faces will have changed.

Incidentally I seem to remember diving in either Moalboal in Cebu or in Bohol. I can’t remember which. There was an older guy there with the ironic name of Mr Goodman. Everyone there laughed at his name. He was an old Vietnam Vet married to some young girl and he had a young kid to her. Just by looking at him, you could tell he had quite obviously seen some horrible stuff in his life and I suspect from his face, had done something awful too. He lived in Thailand previously but was proud to say that he was banned from that country. It would be interesting if anyone knows what happened to him. I guess he will be dead and there’s some 18 year old Mr Goodman in his place. He will be spared the draft this time round and his face won't have a terrible story to tell. I thought the diving centre was in Moalboal, but as the Chocolate Hills are in Bohol and I thought we did a trip to the Chocolate Hills from the diving place, this doesn’t work.

Anyway, we had a great time there in these islands, but the Chocolate Hills was a big disappointment.

[TigsyTikkles]

I heard great things about Bohol. I want to see the chocolate hills, the tarsier and the beaches.

The Chocolate Hills as far as I remember isn’t something to get too excited about. It was a 3 hour drive from where we were and at the end of the journey we were attacked by kids selling all the usual tourist rubbish. We saw some nicely strange round hills above their heads, then it was time to go back home. This must have been about 17 years ago, but I doubt if anything has changed! Even the kids won’t have gotten any older. Just their faces will have changed.

Incidentally I seem to remember diving in either Moalboal in Cebu or in Bohol. I can’t remember which. There was an older guy there with the ironic name of Mr Goodman. Everyone there laughed at his name. He was an old Vietnam Vet married to some young girl and he had a young kid to her. Just by looking at him, you could tell he had quite obviously seen some horrible stuff in his life and I suspect from his face, had done something awful too. He lived in Thailand previously but was proud to say that he was banned from that country. It would be interesting if anyone knows what happened to him. I guess he will be dead and there’s some 18 year old Mr Goodman in his place. He will be spared the draft this time round and his face won't have a terrible story to tell. I thought the diving centre was in Moalboal, but as the Chocolate Hills are in Bohol and I thought we did a trip to the Chocolate Hills from the diving place, this doesn’t work.

Anyway, we had a great time there in these islands, but the Chocolate Hills was a big disappointment.

Sorry to hear you didn't like the Chocolate Hills. But that was 17 years go.

My European friend just got back from the Chocolate Hills last month and she absolutely loved it. She was not just saying she liked it after I asked her, but raved about it.

People have varying taste so I always make sure to see places myself 17 years ago is way too long ago to say a place isn't worth seeing.

[PattayaParent]

I haven't been back to visit Phiippines in 12 years (2000) but after being there 4 years I moved to Thailand in 1994 and found Thailand to be more expensive than Philippines but everything to be of better quality, except the beer. San Miguel Super Dry is better than any of the Thai beers and (was) cheaper.

I'm curious, where did you live in the Philippines? I lived on Negros island. Very cheap and clean...a city called Bacolod there was declared cleanest city in all of the Philippines more than once. It's much cleaner than Chiang Mai and other Thai cities outside BKK and Pattaya.

Roxas Boulevard, Harrison, Manila

[58130]

The poverty here is quite unbelievable. The place is totally dependent on overseas work remittances.....but I reckon if they would give me power for 10 years I could sort the whole place out. I would make a simple start by lining all the police up against a wall and shooting them. That would get rid of most of the criminals. Next I would line up the taxi touts at the airport (who help stop a lucrative tourist industry right when they come off the plane). Eventually you can see my plan would help check the population problem. But you would be left with lots of good people. I would get the movie "religulous" translated into all the languages here, make it compulsory viewing for all and then there would surely be complete understanding when I converted all the churches and mosques to badminton courts or day care centres for kids, whilst their parents started working in the new economy which would have been kick started by shooting all of the old Spanish elite here who control all the commerce. Also as you can see there would be a bright future of employment in a burgeoning arms industry. If you own a chicken factory here, you get more money if you sell abroad, but if a chicken farmer in Thailand wants to export his cheaper produce to the hungry Filipinos, the old elite will find some way to throw a spanner into their container cooler system. I would let Tesco in with open arms. Incredibly no Tesco or the likes here as again the old elite don't want that. You get old dusty Chinese department stores which have check out lines saying "Senior Citizens, Disabled and Pregnant Women Only". Maybe I could introduce a law where every new Tesco supermarket has to have a line for "Religious People", but strictly no more than one line. A pregnant disabled dwarf with a seriously bad attitude (that probably would go without saying) could staff it. All the other lines could say "Infadels Only".

In telecommunications, there's only pseudo competition. Any start up gets swallowed up by the giants to keep prices high. Nowadays the way to get absurdly rich is to control the mobile companies. Every extra one piso a minute makes billions. Look at that Mexican, Carlos Slim. What is he? The richest man in the world? There must be the equivalent here. This is a country of the absurdly rich and the absurdly poor. It is what happens when you deny a country a free market. Nothing much will change though. A free press and a democratic system have made no difference. Once that old cancer, corruption, gets a hold there's not a lot of hope to change anything.

Great ideas you have here. Most of the old Spanish elite are already inactive except maybe for one or 2 families. The Chinese Filipinos now control most of the big industries. I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 or so years time, a few Koreans would also join the mix.

Re your thoughts about a small hotel - they have been my thoughts exactly for the past few years. Say in Manila, there isn't a single hotel or bnb or guesthouse that anybody ever raves about unlike say Bali or Chiang Mai or even Bangkok where there are at least 20 such establishments getting rather iconic reviews. Same for Cebu and possibly Angeles. No one knows how to run such an establishment and they only get business bec all other options are crap too.

[bangkokburning]

You are a walking target in Philippines. Any Pinoy can make a charge against you and you end up in jail for which the greasy local cops can ajudicate this for the Pinoy. can range from swearing at someone for being so stupid (and they are stupid) to fake rape of a girl who has never even been inside your hotel let alone your room. John in 512 - yup, he raped me.

I had seen on some TV documentary 10% of the nation is on Ya-Ice.

They are the laziest, unclever, slow, cautious (as in not chance takers) people I have ever met.

The women can be charming until they wear on you, then the accent /cadance is beyond annoying.

Food is a disaster. I would rather eat foetus. Many Phillipinos might as well.

Poverty is crushing and only getting worse. A throughly broken nation.

Philippinos are not really East Asians, they are Pacific Islanders and the mentality really follows.

It is expensive and a poor value. Only people living there anymore are Koreans, dodgy Austrailans, a few very sketchy English and a tiny pack of old US servicemen. They are all alcoholics. That in addition to the odd and creepy old German/Dutch guy, the old eccentric European woman and a handful of divers that hang on touting an experience long since dead and gone - beautiful reef and loads of fish.

Edited January 25, 2012 by bangkokburning

[monty1412]

Food is absolute crap in PI.. think about it .. how many Filipino restaurants do you see around.

[bangkokburning]

The Chinese control EVERYTHING and that whole spanish-mixing thing is by and large a myth perpetuated by guys that don't know anything. The only mixing that well to do Europeans two centuries ago would do would be with the whores and the very elite. Maybe you ought to have a look at colonial history of Europe. My hunch is that at best 3% could claim any sort of European linkage that honetly dates back 100s of years so the claim is really quite tenous in any regard.

Philippinos - always wishing they were anywhere but and anyone but a Philippino.

I made a joke when I was there...

Q: What do you call a smart Philippino?

A: An expatriate.

[bangkokburning]

I've been to Bacolad and for Phils, its OK. The other place one might check is Dumaguete - but they are both not worth living in. They are just places. Nothing special about them.

[bangkokburning]

My hunch is the job is up in Angeles City on base in the economic zone. Equally bad as Manila in many ways.

[bangkokburning]

I used to laugh that even Cambodia had higher arrival numbers than Philippines. That is passe, I bet now even Lao PDR has higher numbers.

It's dirty, dangerous, unpleasant for all but the punter in search of cheap beer and cheaper women. Despite all the islands, nowhere has really lovely beaches and what exist they have ruined thru overbuilding and or scams. Then there is the dyanmite and cyanide fishing...

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/opinion/21751-philippine-tourism-fixing-the-paradox

[PattayaParent]

Food is absolute crap in PI.. think about it .. how many Filipino restaurants do you see around.

In PI? Loads.

One time working in Saudi a Filipino colleague told me about a new restaurant opened up serving Filipino food. I quite like adobo and Bicol express so asked excitedly what food they serve.

He replied, hot dog, hamburgers, fried chicken, pizzas.

[TigsyTikkles]

The Chinese control EVERYTHING and that whole spanish-mixing thing is by and large a myth perpetuated by guys that don't know anything. The only mixing that well to do Europeans two centuries ago would do would be with the whores and the very elite. Maybe you ought to have a look at colonial history of Europe. My hunch is that at best 3% could claim any sort of European linkage that honetly dates back 100s of years so the claim is really quite tenous in any regard.

Philippinos - always wishing they were anywhere but and anyone but a Philippino.

I made a joke when I was there...

Q: What do you call a smart Philippino?

A: An expatriate.

I dont know about the Filipinos you have met (it's ok to criticize the Philippines. I'm not sensitive about it, there are many problems there for sure. But at least spell "Filipino" correctly LOL) but I know a lot of Filipinos who are happy to be Filipinos. I myself am due to apply for a US citizenship but I'm opting out. I'm very comfortable in the Philippines and I refuse to pay American taxes. The people I know who are traveling a lot right now are Filipinos. Sure, we need to apply for visas to go to Europe etc but with money in the bank a visa is no problem. Why travel to Europe, Japan, US etc anyway if you can't afford it?

My Filipino friends range from middle class to the wealthy. I have Filipino-American friends who moved out of the US and are happy being back home.

Citing a joke claiming "Philippinos" are stupid while writing with the English skills of a retard - now that is funnier than the joke itself

Again, it's ok to criticize but you can't even spell Filipino right let alone have a good grasp about how we think. Don't assume all of us want to be someone else. There are lots of FIlipinos sure who want to leave the country. But a lot doesn't equate to all.

[hermespan]

Based on only two visits to Philippines (Manila, Angeles, Luzon, Cebu City) and many years sojourning in Thailand - plus having travelled and worked in 17 other Asian countries...

Philippines

Pros

- service staff are very polite, not exectly sweet, but much more polite than in Thailand. They call you 'Sir'

- better educated, although a minority of the population, the upper class has been to university and has real job skills too

- Much better English. I have never been to a nation as developed as Thailand where English skills are so poor.

- Keep their religion to themselves. Whether they are Catholic or Eglisia Cristos, they don't wear it on their sleeves as in Siam. I find them less superficial in keeping their religion. If they are secular or irreligious they don't make a show of it to impress others.

- Much easier to get a regular girlfriend and wife

- Beer significantly cheaper (I am a non-drinker and could care less, but for some this is a draw).

- Good value academic education in English. Want to finish your university studies?

- Much easier language to learn than tonal Thai

- It is possible to make local male friends?

- some religious variety - Catholics, Protestants, Muslims

- P4P is better value (short time' means 2 hours, and the service girls are more accomodating)

- they can read and do

- filipinas/os have artistic talents

- Filipinas/os are more broad-minded, even uneducated people can see the perspectives of people of other beliefs. Thais are too close-minded and provincial.

- Filipinas/os are less superstitious, more practical

- you can have a conversation with a Filipina/o, and not just because of language - you are not from Mars.

- there is less homosexuality and *much* less transvestitism

Cons

- food the worst in Asia. I am a 'foodie' and loathe going to the restaurants there. It is bad American fast food plus mediocre local food.

- Thais know how to use some spices

- you can eat on the street in Thailand and you are not likely to end up in the hospital

- medical care is worse value than in Thailand

- unhealthy food - Thailand is a million miles more advanced regarding sugar-free and natural foods.

- more crime. A friend there has had 16 friends and aquaintances murdered in a year and a half in Angeles. I was robbed by stealth twice in Manila and Ageles during 2 months on my first trip. I have *never* been robbed in Thailand and I have been coming here since 1989.

- cops are much more corrupt and will happily set you up with an of-age girl claiming she is 17 unless you pay up $10,000

- worse poverty

- worse infrastructure such as power and transportation

- women aren't as good looking as Thais

- overseas postage is extortionate

- more exxpensive to get to. Manila is not much of an international gateway

- harder to get long term visas for most?

- fewer sophisicated expats

- for a vegetarian, Philippines is a real problem, even getting fish is not easy

- poorer hygiene

- hotels are more expensive (one month rentals - they might be closer)

- groceries, such as fruits and vegetables, are more costly than in Thailand. it's as if it is one big plantation for mega-industrials like Dole.

- more of the working girls are lesbian

- Manila is not an international capital the way Bangkok is

- women get pregnant a lot more often and younger

- the government and law enforcment is much less humane (demanding unrealistic moral standards)

- budget accommodation in provincial capitals is rare?

A more realistic comparison is between PI and Indonesia. Economic development is more meaningful than religion.

Personally, I wouldn't retire or try to run a business in Philippines or Thailand.

I will not spend any significant time in Philippines unless it is upcountry. I loathe Manila almost as much as Jakarta.

Edited January 25, 2012 by hermespan