Dealing with local corruption

[Brunolem]

My wife's village, which is also the place where I live, is controlled by one deeply corrupt family...just because its members outnumber the rest of the population.

 

Thus the village chief (phu yai baan), tambon representative (obotor), and even the "monk" belong to this same family!

 

I can tolerate their massive corruption (using their government funded budgets to enrich themselves), because it doesn't affect me personally, but I am much less inclined to tolerate the village chief's laziness when it comes to issues directly affecting our home...such as, for example, one of our neighbors releasing all its dirty water in the street, which then flows like a small river all along the street and stagnate for hours or more.

 

So, I just summoned the village chief and let him know about my feelings in no uncertain terms.

 

Needless to say that he reacted as if I had told him to build a rocket ship..."my Buddha, how am I going to deal with a family of pigs dumping their used water in the street?".

 

Of course, there are other issues, none of them big enough to require an international assistance, yet all of them needing to be delt with.

 

Now, since I am a bit fed up with this mixture of corruption and laziness, I plan for the next step, if the village chief doesn't do his job...which seems likely.

 

Of course, if I go to a higher authority, such as the provincial one (jangwat), all the shit is going to be brought to the surface...like the village monk building a house for himself with the money offered to build a temple! Or the ridiculous 10,000 baht (more or less) perfectly useless wall the village chief just had built around a piece of communal land at a cost of...200,000 baht!!!

 

I also read somewhere that there was some kind of hotline for farangs who wanted to report corruption cases...

 

In short, what do you think would be the best course of action?

[richard_smith237]

So endemic is the corruption here there exists the probability that those higher up the chain, if not equally corrupt, are moreso and have no wish to draw any unnecessary attention... 

 

As such, any confrontational approach may well draw particular resistance. Playing the game the Western way, going up the chain and expecting ethics & the moral high ground to take precedence is flawed thinking.

 

Perhaps the best approach is to go local... Rather than asking someone to do their job, take a different approach....

....Bottles of whisky & ask for the favor...

 

It's not right, but it never is here. Don't get upset, just play the game. 

[petermik]

Sadly I think  you are asking for trouble,keep well out of it......

[seajae]

 mate use the hotline for corrupt officials and report the bastards, too many just ignore what these low lifes do and go with the flow so they dont upset anyone. They just did monks for corruption adding another one too it will be good, they have been chasing down the corrupt practices officials have been doing so again adding more too it wont matter. Unless you do it no one else  will do anything about it and it will simply continue, the longer you hesitate the longer it goes on

Edited August 24, 2018 by seajae

[timendres]

2 hours ago, seajae said:

 mate use the hotline for corrupt officials and report the bastards, too many just ignore what these low lifes do and go with the flow so they dont upset anyone. They just did monks for corruption adding another one too it will be good, they have been chasing down the corrupt practices officials have been doing so again adding more too it wont matter. Unless you do it no one else  will do anything about it and it will simply continue, the longer you hesitate the longer it goes on

While I share your sentiment, this is a certain ticket to a miserable existence. Thai corruption is best dealt with by the Thai people, especially at local levels, and by Farang only in certain cases. Unless the OP is prepared to move, he is better advised to use a "local" approach as suggested by another poster.

Edited August 24, 2018 by timendres
syntax

[OmarZaid]

Hands Off !  or  Bribe The Chief . . .

[Odin Norway]

32 minutes ago, timendres said:

While I share your sentiment, this is a certain ticket to a miserable existence. Thai corruption is best dealt with by the Thai people, especially at local levels, and by Farang only in certain cases. Unless the OP is prepared to move, he is better advised to use a "local" approach as suggested by another poster.

Yea that is the normal way of thinking.Let the thais with no spine deal with it.Just like 80% of the foreigners I know say the same.Why bother right.

I say NO..There is anti-coruption people out there that can easy put any village chief( phu yai baan) of his high horse and the same for the obotor.

But you need to know theese anti coruption people for youre area to keep it anonymus.Not only one of theese corupt phu yai baans have lost their income due to the same in my area.Hidden camera and recorder is a usefull thing.Good luck.

[sam neuts]

I am always suprised by everyones fear of upsetting people in situations like this.

 

People either bury their head in the sand and pretend it's not happening, or they put up with something that is clearly wrong.

 

For evil/corruption to thrive, all it takes is for good men to do nothing.

 

Stand your ground. Prepare a proper report with photos.

 

Speak again to the head of village showing him the report and telling him what you will do next.

 

Get it translated into Thai and file a complaint at your City Hall or District Office.

 

What is it that you are all so scared of?

 

Why would you live in a country that you are too scared to stand up and be counted?

 

No I am not a newbie to Thailand. Near 20 years.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So endemic is the corruption here there exists the probability that those higher up the chain, if not equally corrupt, are moreso and have no wish to draw any unnecessary attention... 

 

As such, any confrontational approach may well draw particular resistance. Playing the game the Western way, going up the chain and expecting ethics & the moral high ground to take precedence is flawed thinking.

 

Perhaps the best approach is to go local... Rather than asking someone to do their job, take a different approach....

....Bottles of whisky & ask for the favor...

 

It's not right, but it never is here. Don't get upset, just play the game. 

Don't start worrying about corruption in this country, just accept it, and even make it work for you.

There will be opportunities.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, seajae said:

 mate use the hotline for corrupt officials and report the bastards, too many just ignore what these low lifes do and go with the flow so they dont upset anyone. They just did monks for corruption adding another one too it will be good, they have been chasing down the corrupt practices officials have been doing so again adding more too it wont matter. Unless you do it no one else  will do anything about it and it will simply continue, the longer you hesitate the longer it goes on

 "mate use the hotline for corrupt officials and report the bastards". You have left it too late to do that, because they will know it was you, then you will have to move as your life will not be worth living.

[thailand49]

This isn't considered corruption it is a way of life. Just like China outside of the big cities over two decades ago I was at my family village and many of the guests I was sitting with I found out were the governor, mayor, police chief, this village also happened to be right next door to one of biggest and most successful economic zone city. Each year I visited and was picked up at the train station the car got bigger and better, first time it was a stolen imported VW Fox from California it still had the old plate. After a few years, I was being picked up in a Benz.

 

The concept is the same here in Thailand, also very similar as far as I'm concerned in the MiddleEast like a place like Iraq why there isn't really a stable government outside of the capital.

 

Everyone is connected and honor the other's territory and rights, going to the provincial you are opening a whole can of worms sadly when you live in a village and I do to like you unless you have some connections and real resources you should seriously think about moving and living in a confined project where others are thinking and behavior more like yourself.

It isn't about being afraid there is just a time and place for everything and priority in regards to your family how to go about it and sometimes lowering yourself and kissing a bit of ass and playing mind games goes a long way.

In a survey, the result reported a year or so ago something like 50 percent of Thais think a little corruption is o.k. or there is nothing wrong with a white lie that is why nothing is done and just accepted.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by thailand49

[Brunolem]

15 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Don't start worrying about corruption in this country, just accept it, and even make it work for you.

There will be opportunities.

As I explained, it is not corruption that bothers me most, but the laziness of the corrupted who won't do the job they get paid for.

[Lacessit]

Like it or not, we are guests in Thailand. The majority of us don't have sufficient language skills to communicate effectively with most Thais, let alone officialdom.

As the OP said, the corrupt family outnumbers everyone else in the village. So it will continue until they get to be a minority.

 

[Brunolem]

Thanks for these answers.

 

Considering this, I will try a different approach, going first to a policeman that I know, married to my wife's friend, and try to ask him who I could contact to put pressure on the corrupt village chief, while not alerting the provincial authorities for the time being.

 

When I will be ready to definitively leave the village, which will happen in the not too distant future, I will then open the floodgates and officially report everything I know...

[DJ54]

I live in a village and I think the possibility of retaliation is higher than if in the city. Usually not a lot of farang in the village and could bring along other issues. 

 

It’s not a matter of fear reporting it but it could bring a long time period of grief. If your planning to live there a long time try find a way without throwing the person under the bus. 

 

Like on posted cheap bottle of whisky casual mention it over some beers...... maybe it will get taken care of. Good luck 

 

 

[MarcIssan]

In Udon  Thani they have a Udon  website where you can post anonymously.  Maybe you have something there where you can call attention to the problem. 

[connda]

Sorry to hear.  Not all villages are like yours.  Our village is not.  But, it's got to suck for you and your wife.  The potential is there pretty much across Thailand.  Some, however, rise above it. 

[Thaidream]

Sir- I admire your ethics and while you are right- I doubt there is anything you can do to change the situation.  Thais do not like confrontation and none of them will support you even if they know you are right. In addition, you are a foreigner and have absolutely no input into how Thailand runs or should run.

 

Even if you move- you can be found and Thais once losing face- will never forgive or forget. Think of your family first.  I am speaking of almost 50 years living in Thailand in several places. 

[mogandave]

I recommend you report up and keep reporting up.

You’re already in a situation where you’re being driven off, might as well stir up as many hornets as you can before you go.

It they’re misappropriating finds, at the guy they report up to will start taking their cut...

[sam neuts]

I recommend you report up and keep reporting up.

You’re already in a situation where you’re being driven off, might as well stir up as many hornets as you can before you go.

It they’re misappropriating finds, at the guy they report up to will start taking their cut...

All these people from so many different countries.

They ALL had the b***s to leave their own country and start a new life here.

Learn about a different culture.

Spend their money here.

Sign on like criminals every 90 days.

And when something is wrong (ie a health hazard outside their own home) they are too scared of upsetting people to speak out.

Do you really think they are going to come and kill you when you are sleeping for reporting a problem to the head of the village, city hall or district office?

So the locals ignore you after, and speak behind your back. Nothing new there.

Obviously you try your best to resolve it with your neighbour, then head of village, then any local connections you have.

If nothing works then why be scared to push it further?

I wouldn't go the corruption, big issue path but i would ensure the health risk is sorted.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Sir- I admire your ethics and while you are right- I doubt there is anything you can do to change the situation.  Thais do not like confrontation and none of them will support you even if they know you are right. In addition, you are a foreigner and have absolutely no input into how Thailand runs or should run.

 

Even if you move- you can be found and Thais once losing face- will never forgive or forget. Think of your family first.  I am speaking of almost 50 years living in Thailand in several places. 

Thais do not like confrontations...with other Thais!

Yet, as you say, they have no problem confronting foreigners, even when the latter are actually trying protect them...allegiance to the tribe, no matter what!

This is the reason why I am not much interested in exposing corruption...after all the Thais get what they deserve...

Yet, when it comes to not doing their job and in the process causing nuisance for myself and my family, then I am much less tolerant.

 

I have been confronting Thai men from time to time, for noise nuisance for example, and until now I have survived, even after using the worst of their vocabulary against them...they somehow generally know when they are wrong...and my interventions are nothing compared to what they get from their angry wives!

Edited August 24, 2018 by Brunolem

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Don't start worrying about corruption in this country, just accept it, and even make it work for you.

There will be opportunities.

Yeah.

Or understand the tradition and go with it......vacant of the invented angst that is predictably Farang in these instances.

 

It is what it is.

[sam neuts]

Yeah.
Or understand the tradition and go with it......vacant of the invented angst that is predictably Farang in these instances.
 
It is what it is.

Agreed.

Forget about the corruption.

Deal with the health hazard.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[thaiguzzi]

8 hours ago, Brunolem said:

My wife's village, which is also the place where I live, is controlled by one deeply corrupt family...just because its members outnumber the rest of the population.

Not to belittle your post with important observations, but, either the village is pretty damn small or that family is pretty damn large.

 Regards,

  TG.

ps, IMO, don't fight a brick wall, it's gonna get awkward.

[Media1]

Somchai would ask 1 time..The next time he shoots you. And from experience that normally ends it. Back in Australia a debt collector told me come on son get in the car. Friend of dad's. 

He said don't let anybody rob you or intimidate you. Strength projects fear. And today son this prik owes 10000 AU. He stopped the car got the screw driver out and went to the house door and drove it into the blokes leg. 

He said to me later that normally does the job. The old man said he got paid the next day lol.

[Media1]

2 hours ago, DJ54 said:

I live in a village and I think the possibility of retaliation is higher than if in the city. Usually not a lot of farang in the village and could bring along other issues. 

 

It’s not a matter of fear reporting it but it could bring a long time period of grief. If your planning to live there a long time try find a way without throwing the person under the bus. 

 

Like on posted cheap bottle of whisky casual mention it over some beers...... maybe it will get taken care of. Good luck 

 

 

Village hill billy's. Go hang on the door and ask him to stop Man up bro 

[Dene16]

3 hours ago, sam neuts said:

Speak again to the head of village showing him the report and telling him what you will do next.

Good advice !!!!!

Why don't you just stick the gun to his head yourself and pull the trigger.

And that is not an exaggeration by a long way

You may of lived here for 20 years but you have obviously learn't nothing in that time 

 

[Cletus]

By your approach it seems you may be looking for troubles. I can understand your feeling but remember this is not your country and you have no rights to change things you don't like. Just follow their way or leave.

 

[NCC1701A]

I would ask myself is this what I came to Thailand for.

[SOTIRIOS]

...buddy....sorry to say...you are dreaming...

 

...and it will soon become a nightmare......

 

...when push comes to shove...guess who will feel the full impact...

 

...you cannot reason with a gang of corrupt locals....to be polite about it....

 

....skim over the horror stories of what has befallen foreigners that 'aspired to greater things'....

 

...case in point....we were dumb enough to think that we could 'transcend differences' and marry a Thai woman...

 

...in the end....I would guess that less than 10% of those arrangements had any 'genuine elements' in them...

 

...pose a threat to a gang of local 'VIP's'...who have been blinded by greed and corruption...for ages....???

 

...here we read daily...about 'entitled individuals'....or those with connections....'getting away with murder'...

 

...figuratively....and literally....

 

...good luck...