Crackdown on tattoo shops after death of four women

[Development at Khaoyai]

Not all 4 at more or less the same time.  Weakened immune system, certainly, but not death.  Must be gastro-intestinal infection as well, at the very least.  RIP all 4 in any case.

[tandor]

2 hours ago, SoNowWhat said:

Cite your sources for cadavers with viable HIV samples 3 years on?  As for being transmitted via saliva its hypothetical and a raft of conditions must be met.

..i said 3 months..not 3 years!...reference any Forensic Pathology Manual..sorry dont have the author or reference for you, but a standard in Forensic Pathology...re saliva, definitely possible but improbable..one can never discount the chances however remote..satisfied? 

[tandor]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Only if you had an open sore in your mouth or an open wound and the person infected had blood in their saliva and were extremely contagious with high viral load. Chance ? probably 1 in a million

..well you should say low probability then...i doubt it feasible you could stick your tongue in the mouths of a million infected people!

Infected people have been known to spit in the faces of law enforcement officers..a bit like a spitting cobra.aiming for the eye soft tissue and mouth..don't you know.

[atyclb]

theoretically fulminant hepatitis can kill a person in a matter of days.  can also be transmitted by infected blood needle, hollow needles more likely to transmit infection.

[greenmonkey]

This is such a spurious story on so many levels - where do you begin!!!??? The odds are that it's a coverup... for what I am not sure.

 

Firstly - All 4 girls died since contracting HIV in March... total and utter BS! No need to explore this point further.

Secondly - Why are police chasing this tattoist on the father's say so, even when medical science has proven the daughter had HIV for at least one year!??? Already science has proven that a) the tattoist did not give the daughter HIV and b) she most certainly did not die from AIDS. And yet the police are still pointing the finger at him and concentrating their efforts on cleaning up the tattoo industry.... weird to say the least!? Wouldn't they be better served by actually trying to find out the real cause of death to all 4 girls!?

Thirdly - All 4 girls worked at the same establishment.... suspicious.

Fourthly - The sister makes a point saying that they worked as 'food servers only'.... even more suspicious.

Finally - the father doesn't want to press charges against the tattooist - Hmmmn I wonder why..(probably because he know's he is innocent)!?

 

I have my own theory on what really happened here but will keep that to myself as is pure speculation!

 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

theoretically fulminant hepatitis can kill a person in a matter of days.  can also be transmitted by infected blood needle, hollow needles more likely to transmit infection.

As they appear to have died as a result of Sepsis, this is probably the most likely cause.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, greenmonkey said:

I have my own theory on what really happened here but will keep that to myself as is pure speculation!

Oh, do tell, you've got us all on the edge of our seats.

[oldlakey]

22 hours ago, CanuckThai said:

This is unbelievable (as in atrocious).  How does a tattoo business open and operate without the BiB sticking their nose in (rhetorical question).  Can you imagine how many tourists get a souvenir tattoo in BKK...holy crap

More fool them

[Media1]

6 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Agreed - its virtually impossible for all three to have passed away from HIV within 6 months after primary infection.  Post primary infection the virus has a dormant period of between 6 to 16 years.  The ridiculous chance that all three would have died of primary infection is absurd.  They wouldn't have been aware of it for years after infection.  They may well have contracted HIV from the street vendor but would have been very unlikely to have died of it in that period and the evidence for contraction from a single source is scarce.  Further adding doubt is the fathers reluctance to pursue the matter.

The thing is so many people know so little about this virus. Secondly the stories l hear are laughable. Thirdly they did not die within 6 months of contact unless they were drug addicts and starved. 

This story is incomplete. Thais print all types of shit. 

Shingles is a early sign or a flu symptom that is hard to shake off. Regardless the CD4 count will still be sufficient..Any GP would conduct a HIV screen based on the symptoms. Antivirals would commence. As I said the story is full of holes. THAI LOL

[crazygreg44]

it is theoretically 99,99% not possible to infect people with the HIV virus by a tattoo needle. The virus has a shelf life of only 4-5 minutes outside the human body or it's liquids.  So in order to get infected with HIV by tattooing, the needle with fresh blood on it from one customers has to be used immdiately on a second customer.  No tattoo shop, even not a "scratcher" on a motorcycle mobile shop, is doing this.  When I don't doubt that infections might have occured due to bad hygiene from this tattoo stall,  the accusation of catching AIDS from the tattooing is  unjustified and can absolutely not get scientifically backed.  I'd rather believe these 4 girls caugth the virus earlier by having or sharing sex with an infected person, and now, a year later, are shifting the accusations towards the tattoo shop.

Anyways nobody nowadays has to die from AIDS. Medication is available thoughout the whole of Thailand, it actually is FREE of charge and available in government hospitals. The chance of surviving AIDS 20 years and more after an infection is very high

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by crazygreg44

[Esso49]

7 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said:

it is theoretically 99,99% not possible to infect people with the HIV virus by a tattoo needle. The virus has a shelf life of only 4-5 minutes outside the human body or it's liquids.  So in order to get infected with HIV by tattooing, the needle with fresh blood on it from one customers has to be used immdiately on a second customer and so on.  No tattoo shop, even not a "scratcher" on a motorcycle mobile shop, is doing this.  When I don't doubt that infections occured due to bad hygiene from this tattoo stall,  the accusations of catching AIDS from the tattoos is  unjustified and cannot be scientifically backed.  I'd rather believe these 4 girls caugth the virus earlier by having or sharing sex with an infected person, and now, a year later, are shifting the accusations towards the tattoo shop.

Anyways nobody nowadays has to die from AIDS. Medication is available thoughout the whole of Thailand, it actually is FREE of charge and available in government hospitals. The chance of surviving AIDS 20 years and more after an infection is very high

 

 

That's extremely interesting.  However I fail to understand the logic for people to willingly allow their skin to be inflected with some ink.   My own personal opinion is that tattoos are abhorrent.  Only my opinion mind you but those that suffer from their effects only have themselves to blame so let's not go over the top with sympathy for those that undertake this stone age practice of body mutilation.

[SoNowWhat]

5 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Really ? You do talk rubbish. I know it to be true, but maybe you can read this too if you like. As for Pneumonia- feel free to look up PCP pneumonia, this is a common pneumonia caused by lowering cd4 count on people with HIV/AIDS in lter stages.

Infection with Human Immunodeficiency Virus Type 1 (HIV-1) is nearly always fatal without treatment; however, the time from infection to death varies from less than one year to more than two decades [5,6]. Uncovering the factors behind this variation in HIV virulence (rate of disease progression) might provide important clues for the understanding and management of the disease.

(from US national library of medicine)

Provide the citation. You are talking utter rubbish a link to a library is not a reference. Your ignorance is showing. Show your sources...its basic virology 101 so pretty easy to find the real facts. Anyone can see you are wrong.

[SoNowWhat]

7 hours ago, tandor said:

..wrong..the HIV virus has been detected in a cadaver exhumed after three months. HIV can also be contracted via saliva.

 

Cite your sources for your erroneous assertions...all literature points to HIV remaining active in blood drawn from cadavers at about 14 to 16 days if they have been refrigerated at low temperatures. And so what? Why are you throwing out your spurious info? How does it relate to tattooing supposedly linked to HIV infections? Where the women cadavers? Had they been refrigerated? What's your point?

[Jonathan Swift]

"said he had never had a problem with any customer in the 10 years he had been providing the service." well, now he has 4

[Netease]

16 hours ago, tandor said:

..wrong..the HIV virus has been detected in a cadaver exhumed after three months. HIV can also be contracted via saliva.

 

You don't know what you are talking about

[crazygreg44]

10 hours ago, Esso49 said:

That's extremely interesting.  However I fail to understand the logic for people to willingly allow their skin to be inflected with some ink.   My own personal opinion is that tattoos are abhorrent.  Only my opinion mind you but those that suffer from their effects only have themselves to blame so let's not go over the top with sympathy for those that undertake this stone age practice of body mutilation.

I respect your total dislike against tattooing.  Tattooed people do not rule over people who are not tattooed, while people not tattooed seem to like to rule over people tattooed.  Suum Cuique, the ancient Greek & Romans said. Each to it's Own. Even Oetzi the glacier mummy from 3500 years ago decided to have his skin tattooed. And he did not have to go to BoomBoom Town to have it done.

 

What has to be said: You cannot contract HIV from a tattoer.  No tattooer will tattoo a person and then switch to another person immediately using the same needle setup.  There is no other contamination which is apt to transmit HIV Virus.  All other news or stories are faked

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by crazygreg44

[kiwikeith]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 2:09 AM, Nyezhov said:

Sounds like more than just tattoo needles involved

Yes, dyeing from aids takes a long time, over one year for the first symptoms to show up sometimes.

Having a blood test after a casual is a waste of money, Dr's say at least 3 months for any anti body to show in blood.

More likely these 4 friends may have had the same boyfriend circle.

I know of a friend of family who is HIV positive and does not care, even has had 2 kids since to a new GF, lucky the kids were not infected.

Does not give a dam, had a big party circle of GF's and his mates, so be aware in LOS you are not safe, you are playing Russian Roulette, use the old rubber sleeve boys!!

[SoNowWhat]

3 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

Having a blood test after a casual is a waste of money, Dr's say at least 3 months for any anti body to show in blood.

This is incorrect depending upon the tests, there will be reactive results in as little as 10 days. After about 3 weeks many tests will be accurate. Second confirmatory tests are often done again later. However it is advocated to go and get tested immediately after a presumed exposure for two reasons: 1-because unless you have not had sex in the last thirty days since your last test, you might already have been exposed. 2-the more medical information that you have, will facilitate your care in the event of a positive diagnosis and early detection is the key to living a perfectly normal life after testing positive. Testing regularly if you are sexually active is extremely important. HIV tests are only B200 so cost is not an issue. If you are engaging in regular risky activities you can look into PrEP.

Edited September 5, 2018 by SoNowWhat
Spelling error

[tandor]

13 hours ago, SoNowWhat said:

Cite your sources for your erroneous assertions...all literature points to HIV remaining active in blood drawn from cadavers at about 14 to 16 days if they have been refrigerated at low temperatures. And so what? Why are you throwing out your spurious info? How does it relate to tattooing supposedly linked to HIV infections? Where the women cadavers? Had they been refrigerated? What's your point?

..exhumed means the coffin dug up and the remains re-visited..(you dont refrigerate coffins in the ground)..source is any Forensic Pathology Manual and historical studies since the HIV virus was first detected i think back in early 1960s in Africa..common knowledge...and very relative to the OP original post as he/they made ridiculous unfounded statements.

[Ks45672]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:10 AM, Chris Lawrence said:

Don't go near anyone doing tattooing in the streets. Make sure the premises is run properly.

You would be crazy to get a tattoo done in Thailand anyways 

About a decade ago I knew a girl who got one near khao San Rd and the guy made a balls of it and it didn't look like the picture it was supposed to be 

She complained about it and they gave her a 100thb discount 

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, Ks45672 said:

You would be crazy to get a tattoo done in Thailand anyways 

About a decade ago I knew a girl who got one near khao San Rd and the guy made a balls of it and it didn't look like the picture it was supposed to be 

She complained about it and they gave her a 100thb discount 

Surprised they didn't give her a plaster to stick over it - that would have been cheaper for them.

 

[Nyezhov]

14 hours ago, Esso49 said:

That's extremely interesting.  However I fail to understand the logic for people to willingly allow their skin to be inflected with some ink.   My own personal opinion is that tattoos are abhorrent.  Only my opinion mind you but those that suffer from their effects only have themselves to blame so let's not go over the top with sympathy for those that undertake this stone age practice of body mutilation.

Aw come on dude, couldnt we just say that tattooing is the oldest form of human ornamentation then? One of the oldest traditions still extant? How about its religions significance over god knows how many years...lets see...Ozzie the Iceman? 3000 BC... Thats over 5,000 years. Considering the Shamanistic elements of tattooing, is there a religious element to your personal opinion, or is it aesthetic reason?

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed for breaking forum rules. 

 

[Spidey]

17 minutes ago, tandor said:

the HIV virus was first detected i think back in early 1960s in Africa..common knowledge...

Yes. Apparently some randy git dinged a monkey in the jungle in the Congo basin.

 

Don't rush to judge the guy, happens daily in Pattaya.

[SoNowWhat]

1 hour ago, tandor said:

.exhumed means the coffin dug up and the remains re-visited..(you dont refrigerate coffins in the ground)..source is any Forensic Pathology Manual and historical studies since the HIV virus was first detected i think back in early 1960s in Africa..common knowledge...and very relative to the OP original post as he/they made ridiculous unfounded statements.

Yes I know the meaning of exhumed...but since the survival of the HIV virus in corpses is only a few weeks under refrigeration your idea is impossible. You have also neglected to factor in the embalming that most corpses have undergone (as I am not an undertaker I wont be looking it up.)  Cite your source if it is so easy or admit you are wrong. A basic search easily finds the facts. Again it has nothing to do with the story.

 

https://nccc.ucsf.edu/2015/11/23/pep-tips-laboratory-cadaver-exposures/ 

 

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Q210844.html

 

All searches all return this same answer from multiple reliable sources. Cite your source or stop lying. You are trying to stigmatize HIV with urban myths and falsehoods, educate yourself.

[tandor]

5 hours ago, SoNowWhat said:

Yes I know the meaning of exhumed...but since the survival of the HIV virus in corpses is only a few weeks under refrigeration your idea is impossible. You have also neglected to factor in the embalming that most corpses have undergone (as I am not an undertaker I wont be looking it up.)  Cite your source if it is so easy or admit you are wrong. A basic search easily finds the facts. Again it has nothing to do with the story.

 

https://nccc.ucsf.edu/2015/11/23/pep-tips-laboratory-cadaver-exposures/ 

 

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Q210844.html

 

All searches all return this same answer from multiple reliable sources. Cite your source or stop lying. You are trying to stigmatize HIV with urban myths and falsehoods, educate yourself.

..you got confused with refrigerating the body and the virus living for a short period, whereas i am referring to common medical knowledge by Forensic Pathologist who have taught many that the HIV virus could live up to three months in a cadaver buried in the ground..as the virus is aerobic it would have enough air to survive..this information appeared in all Forensic Pathology manuals and i dare say was taken from relevant textbooks and references at the time..this is what was stated at lectures and were the instructions to be adhered to take additional precautions ie double glove, filtered air helmets/masks etc and to destroy all clothing after. Any exhumed cadavers are routinely screened for HIV and Hepatitis 'C' before any second or subsequent autopsy is performed. PS. I dont have to defend myself, so withdraw your accusation. I am educated and have considerable experience in this field. Another point you made was most cadavers are embalmed; this is grossly untrue and is only ever done at the specific request of the family; the majority of whom do not wish to add this considerable expense to the funeral cost.

[quadperfect]

On 9/3/2018 at 5:23 PM, bluesofa said:

While I wouldn't know about the real cause of death, I do know that once someone becomes infected with HIV, it takes up to 90 days before a blood test can confirm this.

After that, even if no medication to control the infection was taken, you can't say that after being confirmed as HIV positive, someone (or rather all four) will then die with three months, as reported in this article?

 

Exactly. The average is 10 years from infection of hiv to death from aids related illness if not treated. No one has ever died in just a few months. Such bogus news in thailand on a constant daily basis,

Now maybe hepatitis or some other nasty bacterial infection could work in that short time.

[Scott]

Please get back on topic.   Although the viability of the virus in a corpse is interesting, it is not germane to this thread.  

[SoNowWhat]

12 hours ago, tandor said:

..source is any Forensic Pathology Manual and historical studies since the HIV virus was first detected i think back in early 1960s in Africa..

HIV was first isolated in 1983 in France/USA so no pathology journals prior to this date would have any information about it.  Again cite your source if it is common knowledge. 

 

4 hours ago, tandor said:

you got confused with refrigerating the body and the virus living for a short period,

I am not confused you are...if the body is not refrigerated the HIV will not remain viable very long, if it is refrigerated it will remain for around 2 weeks. Provide your source for this 'alternative fact' you are pushing because 2 posters now have said you are wrong can you prove us wrong? 

 

There I will say no more.

Edited September 5, 2018 by SoNowWhat

[sanemax]

On 9/3/2018 at 8:37 PM, snoop1130 said:

The 50-year-old father of one of the women, Som (not her real name), aged 22, had earlier told reporters he suspected that his daughter might have contracted HIV from a dirty tattoo needle. His story is in itself contentious, however, because the death certificate he showed reporters states that she had been HIV-positive for more than one year.

 

Why do posters keep repeating the nonsense about them getting HIV from the tattooist , when at least one of the girls was already HIV + before she had the tattoo done ?