Canada PM indicates he will not bend on key NAFTA demands at talks

[pegman]

59 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

If one includes the sentences after this reference (above), we will see this:

 

"After graduating, he worked as a teacher in Vancouver, British Columbia. He completed one year of an engineering program at Montreal's École Polytechnique, from 2002 to 2003, and one year of a master's program in environmental geography at McGill University, from 2004 to 2005. He advocated for various causes [sic], and portrayed a cousin [sic] in the 2007 TV miniseries The Great War.[7]"

 

Anyone who knows anything about university education will immediately see that little Trudeau is a dilettante....wandering from subject to subject, never quite managing to finish the course, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.... a rank amateur.

 

His original job as Drama teacher in Vancouver was the nearest kind of job to suit his personality and position in life....he is an amateur actor....a fake....and most Canadians who are not ideologically blind can see this.  

Trudeau approval 55%. Compare that to Trump's 60% disapproval reported last week. Maybe you should check with those "most Canadians" again.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4342222/liberals-polls-canadians-trudeau-trump/

[blazes]

33 minutes ago, pegman said:

Trudeau approval 55%. Compare that to Trump's 60% disapproval reported last week. Maybe you should check with those "most Canadians" again.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4342222/liberals-polls-canadians-trudeau-trump/

 

Thanks to Bully Trump, little Justin has had a temporary bump up in the polls.  [Read all your own reference above where this point is made, so that even the new (Conservative) Premier of Ontario supports Trudeau].

Many (though perhaps not most!) Canadians would rush to "protect" justin against Trump simply because Trudeau "represents" (for the time being) the Canadian nation.

 

We can have this discussion more intelligently a little over a year from now when the real poll comes around.  (Btw, if, as you say, you are a socialist, I wonder how you can rush to the defence of so grotesque a capitalist as Trudeau.  Ok, not 'grotesque'...how about "hypocritical"?)

 

In the meantime, take a look (for what it's worth) at the poll results for the last few months:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-summer-polls-1.4724388

[bristolboy]

11 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Thanks to Bully Trump, little Justin has had a temporary bump up in the polls.  [Read all your own reference above where this point is made, so that even the new (Conservative) Premier of Ontario supports Trudeau].

Many (though perhaps not most!) Canadians would rush to "protect" justin against Trump simply because Trudeau "represents" (for the time being) the Canadian nation.

 

We can have this discussion more intelligently a little over a year from now when the real poll comes around.  (Btw, if, as you say, you are a socialist, I wonder how you can rush to the defence of so grotesque a capitalist as Trudeau.  Ok, not 'grotesque'...how about "hypocritical"?)

 

In the meantime, take a look (for what it's worth) at the poll results for the last few months:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-summer-polls-1.4724388

Feeling nostalgic?

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, blazes said:

 

Excellent summary.  It is all too rare on TV to find someone able to step back and view the big picture (rather than obsessing about everyday details fed to us by CNN and other "fake news" outlets- fake, not cos they are lying necessarily, but simply cos they fail to see, like here, the larger picture and feed us what is, essentially, propaganda).

I presume you're referring to propaganda like this " Canada could offer to drop the dairy tariff, but I never see this considered. "?

[bristolboy]

8 hours ago, Ulic said:

Trudeau, is an idiot, Trump, is an even bigger idiot. The US subsidizes its agricultural industry to the tune of 24 billion dollars a year. The EU does the same. Canada supports the dairy farmers through a quota system ensuring price stability but which Canadian consumers pay a premium price for dairy products. (estimated at an extra $ 1,400 Canadian dollars a year for a family of four) The dairy farmers are no longer mom and pop family owned businesses. Milk quotas have been

consolidated by big dairy corporations. They make a fortune and have a strong political lobby.  They sell the support the small family farm message and hide the big agro-corporation reality. As for the US. They are nobodies allies. They change with the wind. If you agree/support their political view, you are an ally. The US supports only those who support their viewpoint. In the past 70 years, nobody has done more to medal in foreign governments/elections that the US.  South America, Central America, Asia, the Middle East. The number of countries that the US has installed or supported a coup de tat is endless. Russia simply plays on Facebook and there is outrage. As far as trade is concerned Canada is not Americas manufacturing decline problem.  Mexico, where the minimum wage is 65 cents an hour, and the auto industry pays $1.50 an hour  is. Big business wants to maximize profits. They don't give a crap about the American/Canadian public. Then there is China. Stealing intellectual property and forcing technology transfer. This is true, but I do laugh at the international corporations who complain. They could leave manufacturing in North America, and avoid these problems. But they want the cheap  Chinese/Asian manufacturing.

 

The problem is the regulations forcing local partnerships which split profits and transfer technology to people who will soon be your competitors. Companies love to complain, even when the solution is plainly in front of them. Keep manufacturing in North America/Europe.  Take Burberry as an example. They sell a scarf for 200 Euro/Pounds. It costs 5 Pounds to manufacture

the scarf in the UK. It costs only 3.50 Pounds to manufacture the scarf in China. So they move production to China to increase profits from an already exceptionally high-profit margin product.  Then they moan and complain about counterfeit products made in China. 

 

Personally, I don't trust any politician or any political party. They all have some good ideas but they are corrupted by trying to stay in power and doing there handlers bidding. In Asia/Africa it is about lining their own pockets. In Western countries, it is about staying in power. 

So much wrong here. Basically, if Burberry's chooses not to manufacture in China or Vietenam or Bangladesh, someone else will. The real problem for workers in American society is the lack of a social safety net. If health care was treated as a right, as it mostly is in the developed economies of Europe, that alone would vastly improve their lives. Instead you have Trump and company trying to destroy health care support for the poor and working poor. And to get a university education, unless you have the foresight to be born to wealthy parents or be extraordinarily gifted you have to indenture yourself to banks. As long as the USA leads in income inequality, and Trump's tax bill only exacerbates that, the middle class and skilled blue-collar class will continue to decline.

[pegman]

1 hour ago, blazes said:

 

 

We can have this discussion more intelligently a little over a year from now when the real poll comes around.  (Btw, if, as you say, you are a socialist, I wonder how you can rush to the defence of so grotesque a capitalist as Trudeau.  Ok, not 'grotesque'...how about "hypocritical"?)

You may have missed this:

https://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/ottawa-buys-trans-mountain-pipeline-for-4-5-billion-but-can-it-sell-it

[Stargeezr]

USA has been unfair to Canada, many times in fact. When the Hudson Hope dam was built, the USA got such a deal on electricity that there was no profit for 23 years. So I consider Trump and many people as liars. I do hope that Trudeau does get a fair NAFTA deal but I certainly will not hold my breath.

Geezer

[blazes]

39 minutes ago, pegman said:

You may have missed this:

https://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/ottawa-buys-trans-mountain-pipeline-for-4-5-billion-but-can-it-sell-it

 

Well, now that I have read this May 29 article, I am left wondering what point you were trying to make.  Surely not that the Federal Government's purchase of  the Trans Mountain is evidence of ...what..their potentially socialist inclination?  Or that this state-owned capitalist enterprise may one day, if it can ever satisfy the West Coast Nimbys or the remaining indigenous communities, turn a handy buck or two?

[pegman]

4 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Well, now that I have read this May 29 article, I am left wondering what point you were trying to make.  Surely not that the Federal Government's purchase of  the Trans Mountain is evidence of ...what..their potentially socialist inclination?  Or that this state-owned capitalist enterprise may one day, if it can ever satisfy the West Coast Nimbys or the remaining indigenous communities, turn a handy buck or two?

Trudeau showed he's not immune from nationalizing private enterprise when warrented. I wish he would bring back Petro Canada. Norway started StatOil about the same time P.E.T. was blackmailed by the NDP into starting PetroCan. Norway now has a sovereign wealth fund worth $1T. We after sweet #>€^<|\ because Mulroney dismantled PetroCan.  

[HAKAPALITA]

French are a bloody pest, they caused the Vietnam War, abuse internationa fishing ground , flood Europe with Islams, make Canada look weak, Vancouver is nice though the Brits keep em out.?[emoji481]


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[pegman]

46 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

French are a bloody pest, they caused the Vietnam War, abuse internationa fishing ground , flood Europe with Islams, make Canada look weak, Vancouver is nice though the Brits keep em out.?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Chinese booted the Brits from Vancouver long ago.

[geriatrickid]

21 hours ago, pegman said:

I'm a socialist and Trudeau is no socialist. The Liberal Party of Canada has been looking after the interests of big business since it's beginning. NDP is the social democratic political party in Canada looking after the interests of our working class. I worked for Bob White in the 1990's and on numerous occasions went before Parliamentary Committees and had full out brawls with the Liberal MPs there. They hated us because of the work we did for the NDP.  I've never voted Liberal and never will but this is about the interests of Canada. Back stabbers to their country like Harper and yourself know no shame.   DON'T MESS WITH CANADA!!!!

The NDP does not look after the interests of the "working class". Rather, it is dominated by urban "liberals"  and the big unions who represents their own interests. 

 It probably has not dawned on you, but business owners, and entrepreneurs and others who form the backbone of the national economy are workers, and are working class. The use of outdated hackneyed terms such as "working class" to label a population segment speaks to a mindset rooted in the wasted decades of the 70's. Regurgitating  bankrupt slogans from a failed bygone era doesn't change the fact that it is 2018 and that times changed.  This is probably why you frame so many issues like NAFTA in the  narrow constraints of a political bias.

 

The NDP of the prairies  is rooted in the hardscrabble lives of those who started the CCF. In case you forgot,  many of the founders of the CCF were devout Christians, and a large part of the CCF manifesto came from the self reliant conservative, but co-operative views of the agrarian rural poor of Alberta, and Saskatchewan (e.g. United Farmers party).  It probably causes you conniptions when reminded that some of the stalwarts of the CCF were zionists.  The NDP of rural western Canada is quite different than the armchair self identifying left wing wackos of metro Toronto and Vancouver.  This is why there are different views on NAFTA within the  NDP.  

 

You disparage the federal Liberals, but Bob White was in their political pocket. In his role at the Canadian Auto Workers he laid the foundation for the Canadian auto industry's uncompetitive labour problems. At the CLC, he presided over the death of the Canadian  manufacturing industry with his intransigent wage demands and working conditions that forced companies to shift their manufacturing elsewhere.  

 

19 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Canada could offer to drop the dairy tariff, but I never see this considered.

The dairy farmers have significant political clout and  the rural areas where dairy farmers hold sway, delivers some important safe seats. The use of protectionist quotas on dairy and poultry have split all the political parties. Now that the grain board monopolies  are abolished, the grain farmers have seen benefits, so the assumption that all farmers will support  ongoing  dairy protections is shaky. There are however some legitimate reasons why a country must protect some of its key agricultural sectors, the chief being national security. A nation must be able to feed itself to be truly secure.

 

12 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

The Canadian Dairy Supply Management system should not be undermined. The dairy farmers are given a fair and guaranteed return while the consumer pays a reasonable price. The milk is superior to that of US milk, without chemicals and antibiotics etc. The US system is that the American gov't subsidizes dairy to a huge extent, they over produce, and try to dump the glut onto the Canadian market. Inferior milk at cheap prices.

 

The price US farmers make is minimal as the over production causes prices to tumble. Why so many farms going tits up in Wisconsin? Obvious.

I would counter that Trump has done a service for Canada. He has put a spot light on the dependency that Canada has on the US markets. Canadians can complain all they want about Trump, but until they are willing to pay the additional costs of domestically sourced products, they are just greedy whingers.

 

The Canadian manufacturing sector suffers from no strategy. There are few if any training programs, or apprenticeships, and limited support for technical schools. Skilled trades training should be subsidized and financial support given to those who wish to learn the trades whether it be in the aviation industry or health care.   However, the left wing politicians ignore that and instead  promise free education for anyone who wants to go to "university" to study gender politics or radical feminism special topics etc.  One would think that the left wing political parties would support the skilled trades, but they don't.

One of the hurdles NAFTA has faced in Canada are the labour unions resistance to allow changes in pay and benefits to make Canada more competitive.  Trump has done more for Mexican workers, by insisting that their auto sector wages be increased, than any  union or left winger in Canada ever did. It wasn't intentional, but that is the result.

 

Trudeau bungled the  NAFTA negotiations and was arrogant to assume that he had influence in  Washington DC. Economic conditions change and trade treaties must be amended to reflect those changes.  It doesn't matter if Trump is right or wrong. Trump is there to further US interests. Trudeau and his collection of burn outs and recycled highly paid hacks are there to protect the advantages Canada had. You modify your negotiating strategies to accommodate the people  one has to deal with. Canada did not do that. It dropped the ball. Unfortunately, the Canadian team has been blindsided too many times. They were abandoned by the Mexicans, because the Canadians were sending inconsistent and mixed messages to Mexico. The Mexicans just schooled Canada in realpolitik. It is easy to blame Trump and the USA, but this could have been much better managed.   Instead of marching in Gay parades or making a fool of himself in India or running to the US border to welcome the tens of thousands of economic migrants the USA  has dumped in Canada, junior should have been keeping an eye on  NAFTA. This is what happens when one has a  middle school drama teacher and part time snow boarding instructor working as PM.