Sweden faces political deadlock after far-right gains

[simple1]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

Well you write enough simple 1

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

carry on in the cesspit Mr Cox

[ivor bigun]

carry on in the cesspit Mr Cox

Keep your head buried in the sand.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[melvinmelvin]

Busy day today in the Swedish parliament:

 

Speaker.docx

 

Speaker’s program 29th October

 

 

09.45  Speaker meets with Mr Lofven, S

12.00  Speaker meets with Mr Kristersson, M

12.30  Speaker meets with Mr Akesson, SD

13.00  Speaker meets with Ms Loof, C

13.30  Speaker meets with Mr Sjostedt, V

14.00  Speaker meets with Ms Thor, KD

14.30  Speaker meets with Mr Bjørklund, L

15.00  Speaker meets with Ms Lovin and Mr Fridolin, MP

16.30  Speaker’s conference  with MSM

 

 

Add 6 hours for Thai time.

 

Experts in Sweden express to MSM that the Speaker might do one of the following;

0 extend the time given to Mr Lofven

0 let Mr Kristersson try a 2nd time

0 give the ball to Ms Loof and let her try for 2 weeks

0 just ask the parties collectively to reflect on the situation for

   a couple of weeks and endeavor to come up with something workable

 

I have forgotten how they do this in Denmark, but rather different I think.

The process is for sure very different from the process followed in Norway.

 

[anon537687643]

I know what you mean. Take Malmo that much featured city because of its high population of immigrants and associated crime. It's got a homicide rate of 3.4 per 100,000. That's 2/3 of the average homicide rate for the USA. Shocking!
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/WP0KG/the-crime-situation-in-sweden-compared-to-the-us-in-4-charts

Interesting you had to choose USA..the most violent ! Compare it with other scandanavian countries to get a real picture !


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[melvinmelvin]

 

as expected Mr Lofven met with the speaker this morning, conveyed his report and threw in the towel.

 

now, I will take a look at Swedish msm and see what now ....

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

The Speaker has opted for an unprecedented approach rather than giving a mandate to a new person or taking proposals to a vote:

He intends to carry out discussions with the party leaders partly in plenary and partly in smaller groups and individually.

(This is unprecedented in Sweden. However, I sympathise with this approach.)

The Speaker, and others, say that the party leaders are too focused on the next election rather than on longer term policy influence.

 

(My view, for wiw, would be that they are too focused on the PM position rather than party policy impact. Seems Sweden has moved into the same trap where US has been for years and where UK is. Both voters and MPs are more focused on individuals rather than on party policy.)

 

 

It is said, in MSM, that the Speaker has 2 guiding stars for his political work, those being Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

The  Speaker comes from the largest blue party.

[melvinmelvin]

Not much movement so far, the parties are inching forward. (about 5 weeks since the election now)

The cuts below should give an idea of where they are:

 

Some party leader stances expressed on Monday and Tuesday.

(cut from MSM this morning)

 

Blue?, SD, Sweden Democrats

Will vote down any government that does not offer SD any influence. Mr Akesson said on Monday that the Speaker ought to give him the mandate.

He does not completely rule out supporting M, depending on deal it is assumed.

Red, V, Left party, Vænsterpartiet

Mr Sjostedt wishes a cabinet with Mr Lofven as PM.

Does not support that the Speaker’s ball should go to Mr Kristersson for a 2nd time.

Blue, C, Centre, Centerpartiet

Ms Loof wants to see a government with all blue parties. And she wants such a government to be supported by S and the Green party. She wants to see Mr Kristersson as PM for such government.

She is crystal clear that SD should not be given any influence.

Blue, M, Moderaterna

Mr Kristersson’s preference would be a government with all blue parties (except SD).

He is open to a government with fewer blue parties.

Blue, KD, Christian Democrats, Kristdemokraterna

Ms Thor said that her impression is that both the blue parties and S seems to be able to accept Mr Kristersson as PM.

(this is the first time I see even a hint that S could support a government with Mr Kristersson as PM)

She is prepared for a minority constellation without all the blue parties.

She wants to see a round of voting quite soon.

Red, MP, Green/Environment, Miljöpartiet

Ms Lovin would like to see a Mr Lofven, S, led government with the parties that are close to the political centre.

She said that MP in a blue government would be difficult because M and MP is quite far away from each other in some crucial questions, eg Migration.

Blue, Liberal party, Liberalerna

Mr Bjorklund‘s preference would be a government with all blue parties, he is opposed to give SD any influence.

He is open to Ms Loof be given the mandate for building a government. A constellation with the blue parties and the red MP should be studied further.

 

Red, S, Socialdemokraterna

Mr Lofven said he is prepared to lead a blue/red constellation.

Considers that the largest constellation should build a government and carry out its policies in the parliament.

[geriatrickid]

On 9/9/2018 at 7:17 PM, manarak said:

not a bad result - at least it guarantees that the worries of a significant part of the population will be taken into account.

is that the same significant part of the population who profited from the reign of terror during the glory days of the Third Reich? There are  many wealthy families who made their fortunes supplying the murderers of Europe.

Sweden has never taken responsibility for its past behavior, and instead applied  the same zeal to its embrace of extreme socialist concepts. The result was the same. If the country is to ever advance, it must own its past.

[pegman]

14 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

is that the same significant part of the population who profited from the reign of terror during the glory days of the Third Reich? There are  many wealthy families who made their fortunes supplying the murderers of Europe.

Sweden has never taken responsibility for its past behavior, and instead applied  the same zeal to its embrace of extreme socialist concepts. The result was the same. If the country is to ever advance, it must own its past.

The result Spicoli is one of the greatest nations on earth by most measures. It got there, like the other Nordic nations, by applying social democratic policies. Why pick on the Swedes? How about taking a run at the Yank plutocrats and their imperialist war in S.E. Asia seeing this forum is based there.

[Grouse]

On 10/29/2018 at 8:23 AM, melvinmelvin said:

Busy day today in the Swedish parliament:

 

Speaker.docx

 

Speaker’s program 29th October

 

 

09.45  Speaker meets with Mr Lofven, S

12.00  Speaker meets with Mr Kristersson, M

12.30  Speaker meets with Mr Akesson, SD

13.00  Speaker meets with Ms Loof, C

13.30  Speaker meets with Mr Sjostedt, V

14.00  Speaker meets with Ms Thor, KD

14.30  Speaker meets with Mr Bjørklund, L

15.00  Speaker meets with Ms Lovin and Mr Fridolin, MP

16.30  Speaker’s conference  with MSM

 

 

Add 6 hours for Thai time.

 

Experts in Sweden express to MSM that the Speaker might do one of the following;

0 extend the time given to Mr Lofven

0 let Mr Kristersson try a 2nd time

0 give the ball to Ms Loof and let her try for 2 weeks

0 just ask the parties collectively to reflect on the situation for

   a couple of weeks and endeavor to come up with something workable

 

I have forgotten how they do this in Denmark, but rather different I think.

The process is for sure very different from the process followed in Norway.

 

I read that as busty day in Sweden. I need to see a doctor!

 

Thank you very much for all your work on this MM. Very interesting. I hope Sweden comes up with a great solution  and once again resumes its position as an exemplar!

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I read that as busty day in Sweden. I need to see a doctor!

 

Thank you very much for all your work on this MM. Very interesting. I hope Sweden comes up with a great solution  and once again resumes its position as an exemplar!

doctor and doctor Ms Flower,

after all there are 6 tits on the list above

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

The Speaker has opted for an unprecedented approach rather than giving a mandate to a new person or taking proposals to a vote:

 

He intends to carry out discussions with the party leaders partly in plenary and partly in smaller groups and individually.

 

(This is unprecedented in Sweden. However, I sympathise with this approach.)

 

The Speaker, and others, say that the party leaders are too focused on the next election rather than on longer term policy influence.

 

 

 

(My view, for wiw, would be that they are too focused on the PM position rather than party policy impact. Seems Sweden has moved into the same trap where US has been for years and where UK is. Both voters and MPs are more focused on individuals rather than on party policy.)

 

 

 

 

 

It is said, in MSM, that the Speaker has 2 guiding stars for his political work, those being Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

 

The  Speaker comes from the largest blue party.

 

????

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I read that as busty day in Sweden. I need to see a doctor!

 

Thank you very much for all your work on this MM. Very interesting. I hope Sweden comes up with a great solution  and once again resumes its position as an exemplar!

 

well, I don't have a lot better to do right now while waiting for muscles and ailments to heal

so I can continue with my hobbies

 

also, I am pretty interested in this myself

both re what they will come up with - handling of SD

and the process itself

 

after having spent heaps of years in the intergovernmental policy scene

I think I can spot some tendencies here that I recognize

when problems are getting steep, in my view, you need to open up for pragmatism and innovation to get passed,

however, many Swedes have a hang for the opposite, they dig into their trenches and cling to their principles

thus blocking progress of any significance

 

hence, I am all for this "group therapy" and head banging that the Speaker is aiming for now

 

a possibility that I played with right after the election was Ms Loof, C, as PM backed by S in the cabinet

and Mr Lofven as Speaker - that is off now

 

 

[geriatrickid]

23 hours ago, pegman said:

The result Spicoli is one of the greatest nations on earth by most measures. It got there, like the other Nordic nations, by applying social democratic policies. Why pick on the Swedes? How about taking a run at the Yank plutocrats and their imperialist war in S.E. Asia seeing this forum is based there.

No it didn't. They got there through the plunder and exploitation of what was once called the developing world. Anyone need a Bofors gun? The point that you did not  get because of your inherent  prejudice is that the country never went through  a period of introspection and review of its own actions. Denmark did. The Netherlands did. Even Germany did. You bought the myth of social egalitarianism, when there was none. Profiteers still profited and instead of corrupt capitalists it was corrupt union bosses. The youth of Sweden are fed up with the lies of the union bullies and "social" experts, and have turned to something that promises a quick fix. Perhaps if the social engineers and union bureaucrats had not been so dictatorial and unwilling to listen,  Sweden would not be so quick to try something so extreme.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

No it didn't. They got there through the plunder and exploitation of what was once called the developing world. Anyone need a Bofors gun? The point that you did not  get because of your inherent  prejudice is that the country never went through  a period of introspection and review of its own actions. Denmark did. The Netherlands did. Even Germany did. You bought the myth of social egalitarianism, when there was none. Profiteers still profited and instead of corrupt capitalists it was corrupt union bosses. The youth of Sweden are fed up with the lies of the union bullies and "social" experts, and have turned to something that promises a quick fix. Perhaps if the social engineers and union bureaucrats had not been so dictatorial and unwilling to listen,  Sweden would not be so quick to try something so extreme.

To what extreme socialist policies do the Swedes subscribe to that the Danes don't?

And what extreme something is Sweden so quick to try?

[melvinmelvin]

Found a kinda good editorial in Dagens Nyheter (very big Swedish Newspaper) earlier this week,

have tried to convert the more relevant parts into readable and hopefully understandable English:

 

Some cuts ad translations from an editorial in Dagens Nyheter on 31st October:

The blue block seems to be scared stiff of the possibility that Mr Lofven, S continues as PM. However, a red, S, minority government might be the least evil result for the blue block.

Djengis Kahn constantly conquered new territories, set fire to them, and left them in ashes. Mr Lofven has not done that or anything else. That is why it would be nice with someone else as PM. On the other hand, it would not be a catastrophe if Mr Lofven continues.

Sweden is in need of a government that is able to both saddle and ride. There is a large portfolio of reforms, which wait for solutions and implementations. Hence, a potent blue block government would be preferable.

You may say a lot about Djengis Kahn and S, but during the past 100 years, S has many times had the opportunity to turn Sweden into smoking ruins, so far they have not done that.

The need for pragmatism.

Tuesday this week, the Speaker introduced 4 possible government constellations to the party leaders.

In 2 of these 4 S is a key factor, and S is a necessary cooperation partner in the 2 other constellations. Purely based on the GE results S will be a key power in any constellation.

Hence, the conservatives should now play down their Halloween hysterics and start thinking about which of the not good government alternatives would offer the best opportunities for blue politics.

The social democrats have not turned Sweden into smoking ruins, yet.

Paradox.

Perhaps a red S minority government could be the solution, which would offer the best opportunities for conservative politics.

However, it should always be kept in mind that SD is not a conservative or blue party. In several respects, SD is closer to red politics than blue. Hence, building a blue government with their support is not recommendable,

Constellation.

A constellation with S and one or more blue parties is not impossible, but somewhat risky.

Even though the conservatives have a skewed picture of S as Djengis Kahn in mind, the social democrats, on the other hand, tend to picture themselves as government of God’s will. Mr Lofven woos the parties Centre and Liberals. In our view, they should let Mr Lofven stay single and rather invite him to cooperate on concrete political projects.

If all goes well this could lead to a scenario like; a certain room for conservative politics, the Left party being marginalized, SD being isolated, S being dragged somewhat to the right, the blue block can be kept and try to do better at the next GE.

 

[melvinmelvin]

read on www.dn.se today:

 

one month ago 53% of the Swedish voters supporting S would accept the C party in an S led government,

a poll this week measured 64%.

 

+++

the blue block seems to develop cracks between the conservative side, M and KD, and the liberal side, C and L,

the wedge being SD.

 

+++

cooperation between M and SD on the local level frustrates the central M management in Stockholm.

 

+++

Ms Loof, C, wants to keep the blue block intact and at the same time cooperate with S,

the conservatives in the block, M and KD, are not comfortable with this approach.

 

[roobaa01]

two more attempts are given to form a government next in the line are the swedish dems....anyway there will be new elections.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[melvinmelvin]

The Speaker announced today that he will hold a press conference Monday morning

at which he will lay out his plans for the near future.

 

(and I suppose it will be followed by another group therapy/headbanging session with party leaders)

 

Obstacle:

a budget for 2019 must be in place by 15th November

(the caretaker government has prepared a "standard" budget free from their political ambitions, according to S.)

 

me; time to get out of the trenches now and show some pragmatism and innovative thinking

 

[roobaa01]

actually the media is pushing anni loeof centre to becoming the next candidate hyped as a saviour like friedrich merz in germany after merkel retreat.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[melvinmelvin]

 

The Speaker has spoken (I'm kinda surprised - but never mind - I am not Swedish)

Mr Kristersson the leader of M, the largest conservative/blue party, will be submitted as a formal

PM candidate to the parliament next week, probably on the 14th.

 

(I am not suggesting that the speaker is biased. But readers should know that the newly elected

 Speaker comes from the same party as Mr Kristersson.)

 

The Speaker opined that Ms Loof, C, will not be given a mandate to seek building a government

because the M party objected to that.

 

Seems safe to conclude that the Speaker's group therapy and head banging did not work.

 

Me; kinda surprised.

What the heck, am not Swedish - just enjoy Spendrups as well as Belhaven.

 

NOTE:

This will be the first of the 4 formal tries/votes the Speaker has in order to clinch a government with parliamentary support.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

Ought to add that the entry above is based on what I did read

in the Swedish MSM Dagens Nyheter today.

 

[melvinmelvin]

interesting reading in Swedish MSM today, lively re building a government

 

The Speaker is a very experienced politician, hardly naive when it comes to politics,

I wonder how he sees his PM votation next week, as a serious alternative or as a stepping stone

and wedge to use in further group therapy and head banging.

 

Mr Kristersson's, M, plan is a minority government with M and KD (Ms Thor),

possibly enlarged to what was previously presented as 3-2-1.

 

So far,

SD says we will vote down any government that does not give us any influence.

 

Ms Loof, C, and Mr Bjorklund, L, have said that thyey do not support building a minority blue block government.

 

Social democrats, S, will not support a pure blue government.

 

With that background, the Speaker's approach may have wee hopes of clinching it.

 

NOW TODAY

 

Ms Loof, C, says she is disappointed that she did not get the ball from the Speaker to try and build a government,

 

Ms Thor, KD, says that she would find it weird indeed if L (and C?) could not support

a blue block PM candidate.

 

The PM candidate says that he hopes not to be voted down by SD.

He also says that his intention is to pursue politics that should be palatable to both C and L.

 

----

So far I have not seen any views expressed by S or SD.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

At 6 am today (Swedish time) an editorial in the MSM Dagens Nyheter states that it

will be good for the national assembly to vote down the proposed government, Mr Kristersson M, supported by KD.

The newspaper recommends that MPs vote this down.

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

said in Swedish MSMs today;

 

 

 

 

Mr Akesson, SD, we may or may not support such a conservative government, the decisive factor being guarantees for our demands, We will vote down any government not including SD.

Mr Kristersson, M (the PM candidate), right now this is what I can do, am out of ideas/options.

Ms Thor KD, both C and L are aware of the consequences of not supporting this effort.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

said in Swedish MSMs today;

 

 

 

 

Mr Akesson, SD, we may or may not support such a conservative government, the decisive factor being guarantees for our demands, We will vote down any government not including SD.

Mr Kristersson, M (the PM candidate), right now this is what I can do, am out of ideas/options.

Ms Thor KD, both C and L are aware of the consequences of not supporting this effort.

 

 

 

not sure what is going on, I am in a battle with TVF software and it seems I am losing

 

anyway

 

Ms Loof, C, is pressing the present blue block PM candidate re how he can possibly run a government

without getting into clinch with SD and their support.

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

been somewhat quiet re new government in Swedish MSM yesterday and today,

midterm elections in the US have dominated in the MSM

 

anyway

today 4 high profile prominent Social democrat members went public with their views,

advocating that Mr Lofven, S, should carefully open up for cooperation with the conservative parties.

they claim that such seems to be the only way out of a locked situation.

 

(I would disagree with that, there are  still constellations to be tried out)

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

Last week Mr Bjorklund, Liberal, stated that he would formally propose to the Speaker that

Ms Loof, Centre  will be given the mandate to try build a government.

 

Today the Speaker met with party leaders

and announced that on Wednesday this week there will be a formal PM vote.

The proposed PM is Mr Kristersson, M and his government is

the minority government of M and KD (Ms Thor).

 

This will be the first of the 4 tries the Speaker has to his availability.

 

It has never before happened in Sweden that the Speaker's first proposal has been voted down.

However, everybody seems to expect this vote to fail.

 

 

It is not at all clear to me why the Speaker does this, he is no inexperienced nitwit politician.

Maybe he has a longer term plan re group therapy and head banging.

dunno

 

we will see

 

[melvinmelvin]

Just now I read in the Swedish MSM Dagens Nyheter

that Ms Loof, the leader of the blue block Centre Party

 

announced in a TV interview this early morning (Swedish time)  that she and her party will (tomorrow)

vote NO to the proposed PM and his conservative government proposal.

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

I also read that the Liberal party, L, Mr Bjorklund, has confirmed that L will vote NO to the proposed PM

and his minority M+KD government.

 

The PM candidate expresses his concern on Facebook.

 

Mr Akesson, leader of the far right party SD informs media that they will vote YES to the proposal.

He reckons that SD will achieve influence over a M+KD government.