melvinmelvin Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 It is reported in the Swedish MSM dn.se that the reason why Ms Loof, C, called off the negotiations with Mr Lofven, S, was disagreement re workers rights. In the situation when a company / enterprise has to take steps to lay off people, who should go first/last, they could not agree upon. Important issue for employees of course, but crucial for building a government? Not uncommon in large scale negotiations, they fail on relatively minor issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Appreciate your updates melvinmelvin. I have kind of given up on this. 3 months down the road and no government. Just proves that Swedish politicians, like all others, are narcissistic megalomaniacs... No surprises there. But what is worst, they seriously believe that by totally neglecting SD they will win their own and SD will magically go away. 18% of voters, and growing... Look at the rest of Europe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 52 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said: Appreciate your updates melvinmelvin. I have kind of given up on this. 3 months down the road and no government. Just proves that Swedish politicians, like all others, are narcissistic megalomaniacs... No surprises there. But what is worst, they seriously believe that by totally neglecting SD they will win their own and SD will magically go away. 18% of voters, and growing... Look at the rest of Europe... Thank you. Agree, turning the blind eye to SD will not really solve anything, and in all likelihood, it will just strengthen SDs voter base. If this had been the situation where I come from, Norway, my honest guess is that the government issue would have been sorted long time ago. Why? Experience. Our politicians have years of experience in building governments across blue/red blocks/borders they can quickly get down to the essence and start talk practical politics and what goes / does not go. This situation is kinda new in Sweden, hence, meagre results so far. We also have a much less stringent and easier process for picking a PM if the GE does not give a clear answer. Anyway, I am somewhat surprised that the Speaker does not take a more active role in this. It is clear that these politicians need quality guidance and need to be told where the cupboard should be placed and where Adam bought his beer. The new Speaker is a very experienced politician and well respected and should be able to offer guidance. However, I am not familiar with Swedish parliamentarian practice, for all I know an active Speaker is not proper, perhaps. But it is rather obvious that these politicians are in need of guidance and assistance. The way I see it, the Speaker, number 2 man in the country, should be able to offer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceKadet Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Yes, you are right. Th Speaker is very experienced and respected politician, but this is a first. I suppose he doesn't want to be the first ever in Swedish politics to fail to create a working government. Never before is Swedish politics had they contend something they don't understand. You could just follow the pre-election debates to see how far removed from the electorate the parties were. It would seem that the other European countries are much more mature in their politics and can embrace and co-work with parties that represent a sizable portion of the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roobaa01 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 last but least the 3 rd attempt to form a gov failed for swedish people are sick of cartel party deals with left wing moral hyper sickness. new elections then the sd will rise to 20 plus, 5555 wbr roobaa01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, roobaa01 said: last but least the 3 rd attempt to form a gov failed for swedish people are sick of cartel party deals with left wing moral hyper sickness. new elections then the sd will rise to 20 plus, 5555 wbr roobaa01 fair enough, but as far as the Speaker is concerned, it was his 2nd attempt, he still has 2 of his 4 attempts left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roobaa01 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 6 hours ago, melvinmelvin said: fair enough, but as far as the Speaker is concerned, it was his 2nd attempt, he still has 2 of his 4 attempts left. no problem, so the game could be called swedish roulette instead of the russian one. i wonder no left wing tootsy came out thus far to raise russian influence. mfg roobaa01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yesterday evening on a TV program the Speaker opined; That he was disappointed that the party leaders were still pretty far apart and locked in pre election positions. He said that during the weekend he had been in contact with all the party leaders and that he early this week will inform the public about the next steps to be taken. He said that he hoped that the next candidate would be a candidate that had a real chance of flying. I find his last comment a bit strange. If I have understood the process correctly, the Speaker is the sole decision maker re candidates to be put forward. Maybe it is not supposed to be that way in Sweden, but I had expected the Speaker to take a more active role in banging heads. It is rather clear that the politicians need assistance/facilitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 The Speaker has announced today that he will hold a press conference tomorrow, Wednesday, at about 11 am. The purpose; to inform about the next steps in the efforts re establishing a government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Today, Wednesday 19th, the Speaker announced that the next PM vote will take place on 16th January 2019. So far, no identified candidate. The process between now and mid January in order to destill a candidate is not clear to me. ------ Ms Loof and the Centre party is going significantly down down down in the polls after they did not manage to pull it off with Mr Lofven and the S party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roobaa01 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 46 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: Today, Wednesday 19th, the Speaker announced that the next PM vote will take place on 16th January 2019. So far, no identified candidate. The process between now and mid January in order to destill a candidate is not clear to me. ------ Ms Loof and the Centre party is going significantly down down down in the polls after they did not manage to pull it off with Mr Lofven and the S party. yep and sd up, up...... wbr roobaa01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, roobaa01 said: yep and sd up, up...... wbr roobaa01 I guess by sd you mean Social Democrats. Because they did go up on the latest Ipsos poll by 4 points. As for the Sweden Democrats, the news isn't so good. Down by 2 points. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-19/swedish-christian-democrats-overtake-center-in-latest-ipsos-poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 6 hours ago, bristolboy said: I guess by sd you mean Social Democrats. Because they did go up on the latest Ipsos poll by 4 points. As for the Sweden Democrats, the news isn't so good. Down by 2 points. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-19/swedish-christian-democrats-overtake-center-in-latest-ipsos-poll What I think this poll is saying is that the voters are not happy that the recent PM vote failed. And it seems they put the blame on the Centre party and the Liberal party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 From Bloomberg above and dn.se and svd.se today, the National Assembly will soon enter a 3 week Xmas/new year break. The Speaker will meet with party leaders on the 14th of January and there will be a PM vote on the 16th. If that vote does not produce a PM there will be another PM vote on 23rd of January. (that is assuming that the Speaker can find a willing candidate) Next step will be an extraordinary GE. The Speaker called on Mr Kristersson, M and Mr Lofven, S to show responsibility for pushing the process forward. Which in practical terms means that either potential PM would need the support of Ms Loof and the Centre party. Unless some new constellations should surface over Xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 According to dn.se the Speaker has had conversations with both Mr Kristersson, leader of M, and Mr Lofven, leader of S, to assess how their efforts re building s government is progressing. apparently no xmas quiet for the two nothing leaks from these talks, impressive - all involved are mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Yesterday the Speaker had individual talks with the leaders of the two largest parties in Sweden. Mr Lofven, S and Mr Kristersson, M. The purpose of the talks; update the Speaker on progress re building a government that the assembly can tolerate and without the need for SD support. As usual, nothing leaks from these talks but I think it is safe to assume that they both endeavour to lure the liberal parties, C and L, into supporting them. They have about another week to sort it out. ------ I wonder. Hope there is a Swede or two around. In everything I have heard from the Speaker he is totally clear on the dates for voting, not once, as far as I have heard, has he mentioned the possibility of not having a PM candidate. Can the Speaker simply decide that a party leader shall be a PM candidate and then carry out the voting process? Find it somewhat strange that the no-candidate situation never has been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Thursday morning this week the Speaker will meet (individually) with the two (currently) potential PM candidates, Mr Lofven, S, and Mr Kristersson, M. Following their reports and the talks the Speaker will be briefed in detail re conditions related to an extraordinary general election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Today the Speaker has had individual meetings with the leaders of the two largest parties in Sweden. The leaders conveying their final report of their efforts to the Speaker. The Speaker, only says; Monday next week I will meet with all party leaders, following that a PM candidate will be nominated and the vote will take place on Wednesday next week. (the way the Speaker expresses himself and the language used in Swedish msm suggests to me that relevant people cannot actually refuse to become a PM candidate, not sure if that is correct though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 It has been reported in Swedish msm that for all practical purposes the negotiations between the parties re building a functional majority coalition must be finalised before tomorrow morning. Saturday and Sunday the MP groups and the decision making bodies with the C and L parties will meet and see if they can accept what has been negotiated. Monday morning the Speaker has scheduled meetings will the party leaders following which he will launch a PM candidate to be voted over on Wednesday next week. The Speaker now has 2 attempts left to find a PM candidate that survives the voting process, of these two attempts both fail the constitution stipulates a new general election. The date 7th April has been picked for such, if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said: It has been reported in Swedish msm that for all practical purposes the negotiations between the parties re building a functional majority coalition must be finalised before tomorrow morning. Saturday and Sunday the MP groups and the decision making bodies with the C and L parties will meet and see if they can accept what has been negotiated. Monday morning the Speaker has scheduled meetings will the party leaders following which he will launch a PM candidate to be voted over on Wednesday next week. The Speaker now has 2 attempts left to find a PM candidate that survives the voting process, of these two attempts both fail the constitution stipulates a new general election. The date 7th April has been picked for such, if necessary. Thanks again for the continued updates Melvin. They are much appreciated even though very few comment on the thread as we know nothing about the Swedish political system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Thanks again for the continued updates Melvin. They are much appreciated even though very few comment on the thread as we know nothing about the Swedish political system. alas, too many typos in my previous post, too late to edit now my pleasure DD, didn't know much myself either before I started to follow this process, caught my interest to see how they manage to sort a functional majority government not dependent on support from the populist, SD, party I just happen to be pretty good at reading and listening to Swedish, so it is easy for me to follow their MSM, some of the MSM are actually quite good It is quite clear, to me - I think, that Swedish politicians have much much less experience in building cross blue-red coalitions than Norwegian politicians, Norwegian politicians are in my view pretty good at such and can normally conclude within a reasonable timeframe, they have of course plenty plenty experience in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 6 hours ago, melvinmelvin said: The Speaker now has 2 attempts left to find a PM candidate that survives the voting process, of these two attempts both fail the constitution stipulates a new general election. The date 7th April has been picked for such, if necessary. The Swedes don't like to hurry things. That's 7 months since the last elections were hold. Here is a story about the snap elections in English. https://www.thelocal.se/20190111/swedish-snap-election-could-be-held-on-april-7th?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=thelocaleurope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, oilinki said: The Swedes don't like to hurry things. That's 7 months since the last elections were hold. Here is a story about the snap elections in English. https://www.thelocal.se/20190111/swedish-snap-election-could-be-held-on-april-7th?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=thelocaleurope ta, good stuff as far as I understand you cannot refuse to become a PM candidate in Sweden, the possibility of not having a PM candidate has NEVER been mentioned (in Norway, you cannot refuse to become a MP, at least it used to be that way, but becoming a PM is a kinda private deal between the relevant person and the Head of State) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Now, at last, it seems that the PM hunting galore has been finalised. Mr Lofven, S-Socialdemocrats as PM backed by C-Centre and L-Liberal and MP-Green. This represents a solid majority government. C concluded last Friday evening L concluded yesterday afternoon. This is what will be presented to the Speaker Monday morning and voted over on Wednesday. Something really extraordinary would have to happen in order to derail this, but you should never say never in politics. The SD-Sweden Democrats seem to be safely outmanoeuvred and sidelined, this was very important for both S and C. The two conservative parties, M and KD, are now in a clear minority. Not sure what has happened to the red V (Left) party in this game, long since I have even heard it mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Further to my post above. Political happiness in Sweden is rather moderate I think you could say. Some comments heard; earlier V politician and MP says V has been treated unfairly in this process the Swedendemocrats are of course disappointed that they have been sidelined, but the degree of surprise ought to be moderate, it was not unexpected MP/Green, not sure, but probably comfortable with the result Mr Lofven, S, has received quite some criticism with the party, this for giving up too much S principles in order to lure C and L into support. It has been argued that it would have been better to let the PM post fly and keep the S principles. C and L are fairly pleased is my guess, C more so than L, but ..... Ms Loof, the leader of C has received quite some praise within the party for the results of the process. The two conservative parties, M and KD are quite simply VERY ANGRY. They take their aggression out on Ms Loof. Words like traitor and Nazi are frequently heard. Over the past 2-3 months, Ms Loof has quickly become the most hated politician in Sweden. Social media are full of very very harsh criticism directed at her. Four letter words and threats are flying all over the place. Wouldn't surprise me if the security police is watching her. Couple of days ago, Dagens Nyheter (dn.se), I think the largest newspaper in Sweden, had a very lengthy editorial about the process and in particular the roles of the C party and Ms Loof, the editors of DN praised her and her doings in this process. so; some hate - some praise, can't win 'em all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Further to the above, as I said, never say never in politics "civil war" has just broken out within the L party, the body of the upper political echelons are debating the issue right now, broad casted live, here https://www.dn.se/nyheter/politik/live-liberalernas-partirad/ in Swedish of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I see now that my post above summing up majority / minority is incorrect to say the least, sorry, will have a go at doing better in a post below just a few observations first; the large labour unions in Sweden are not really happy with the coalition Mr Lofven is building, the call it toothless and too far to the right The upper echelons (the manifesto bosses) in the Liberal party have now concluded, they are split but the majority concluded to support Mr Lofven, S as PM. looks to me from what I read that they make decision dependent on the leftmost party, V, also joining (will have a go at explaining why below) In the MP party (the green party) the organisation for the young members are starting to make a fuss, they do not think it is appropriate that MP joins such a coalition. "civil unrest" to some extent in V, they are still debating whether to join and support Mr Lofven's efforts, without V's support Mr Lofven's prospect would look bleak. it is worth remembering that it is today that the Speaker will meet with all party leaders and establish a candidate to be voted on, (can be delayed I would guess). It is now 3 am in Sweden - so they still have some hours to get this sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 sorry for my sloppiness above - will have a go at explaining seats and groups in a better way here Sweden has 349 seats in its national assembly. Computed majority is 175. In order to pass the PM/government voting process you must ensure that less than the computed majority vote against you, (yes/support - votes do not count). seat overview: left, V (red) - 28 seats / MP (green) - 16 seats S (red) - 100 seats / C (blue) -31 seats / L (blue) - 20 seats M (blue) - 70 seats / KD (blue) - 22 seats / SD (blue/brown?) 62 seats Now, it is reasonable to expect that SD, KD and M will vote reject to Mr Lofven as PM, that is a group of 70+22+62=154 votes/seats - 21 votes short of computed majority Mr Lofven's current coalition is S+C+L+MP with 100+31+20+16=167 seats, 8 seats short of computed majority If V with its 28 seats should conclude to support Mr Lofven the coalition would command votes way above computed majority. It is worth noting that that will be the case even if MP (green) should pull out of the coalition. And, furthermore it is worth noting that MP's 16 seats will not suffice re bringing the conservative group passed computed majority. (can only hope, that this was at least a wee bit better) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Right now, the Swedish Speaker is conducting his series of individual meetings with all party leaders, before pointing to a PM candidate. Mr Lofven has concluded his meeting and is now holding a press conference, he looks very very tired, has probably been working 24 hours since before Xmas. broadcasted live on dn.se the meetings with the Speaker are mum, but the press conferences are broadcasted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: Right now, the Swedish Speaker is conducting his series of individual meetings with all party leaders, before pointing to a PM candidate. Mr Lofven has concluded his meeting and is now holding a press conference, he looks very very tired, has probably been working 24 hours since before Xmas. broadcasted live on dn.se the meetings with the Speaker are mum, but the press conferences are broadcasted I was quite impressed with that press conference, first the way in which he reported to the press and secondly the way in he responded to questions. Very very clear concise and to the point, and not least open and friendly. Both UK and Norway could do with PMs with comparable qualities. It seems clear now that the open question here is the leftwing V party, will they support the social/centre coalition or vote it down? This seems to be open, so far. Will see what the Speaker comes up with this (Swedish) afternoon. ( my guess; if V should vote down Mr Lofven's coalition this will lead to a new election. can't see any meaning in a leftwing party propping up a government of KD, M and SD alternatively if this week's vote goes down the drain the Speaker allows ample time for trying to negotiate V into the coalition.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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