2nd Visit Visa Refused Uk

[cleverD]

Just been to pick up my GF.s passport after applying for her 2nd visit visa and been refused on the grounds that 2 of my bank statements only show 694 pounds in credit ( quote),this being arguably an insufficientamont of money to fund your visit.I transfer 2000 pounds a month into my private acc. from my business acc.to pay household bills etc and to justify my ability to pay I included with the documentation a copy of my business audited accounts showing nearly 100,000 pounds in stock and cash.

When I picked up the envelope from VFAC the copy of the accounts were not returned so were probably never submitted by the VFAC to the embassy.

I feel I have just been robbed of the best part of 5000 baht and had a refusal notice entered in her passport.We have travelled extesively around Asia and Australia France Spain in the last 12 months.

Is there any thing I can do to get this decision overturned as to me it is a matter of principle that I have submitted Accounts which satisfy the inland revenue as to my wealth but another Gov. dept fails to recognise.

Any advice please.......

[the scouser]

On the basis of what you written here, I would submit a written complaint to UK Visas explaining that evidence of your ability to fund the trip was submitted but appears to have either been ignored or was never passed on.

Ultimately, you may seek a judicial review of the matter in the High Court.

Scouse.

[atlastaname]

You could also fax a copy of your business account statement that you say is missing to the ECM over the weekend pointing out that it was not passed on correctly. Ask for it to be reviewed in the light of this . A judicial review is extremely expensive and should be a last resort (on monetary grounds)

When you say £100,000 in stock and cash , i guess its important to show how much is in stock . Depending on what the stock is , its often an illiquid asset so cannot be quickly converted to cash so cannot count towards the funds available to you . Cash of course can count.

[GU22]

I included with the documentation a copy of my business audited accounts showing nearly 100,000 pounds in stock and cash.

Irrelevant. It is your disposable income/cash savings which count, not how much you hold in stock or the worth of your business.

Having said that, an income of £2000pm from your business should be more than sufficient, unless you have massive debts to service or other large financial commitments.

her 2nd visit visa

I see from previous posts of yours that she had a UK visit visa last year. That, together with the Australian, French and Spanish visas, means that this application would normally have been a formality.

There must have been some very important change in your or her circumstances since last year that you are not telling us about. Care to say what it is?

Your choice, but if we don't know all the facts it is difficult to give useful advice.

[cleverD]

Absolutely no major change to my circumstances and I am a car dealer in the UK so my stock is easily changed into cash.I put 2000 pounds a month into my current account and if I need more I draw a cheque from my business acc.This was her 2nd visa so I thought it was just a formality but I still put all the documents and photos in as if it was a 1st application.I am absolutely livid about this and will do anything to get this corrected.

Unfortunately I only brought one copy of my accounts with me but I fly home tomorrow so will take up the case when I return home.Could someone please tell me what is involved in a judicial review.

Thanks to all who have answered.

[Livinginexile]

You say her passport is full of visa's?

She's allready had UK visa last year? and this year they refused?....somethings wrong.

Also you say she has had a Vietnam visa? Thai's do not need visa's to Vietnam. I have been many times with my Thai wife.

[Livinginexile]

You say her passport is full of visa's?

She's allready had UK visa last year? and this year they refused?....somethings wrong.

Also you say she has had a Vietnam visa? Thai's do not need visa's to Vietnam. I have been many times with my Thai wife.

Actually Thai's don't need visa's for Malaysia or Indonesia either.

You're telling fibs arn't you?

[Axel]

Guess he talks about stamps in the passport. Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam etc. do stamp Thai p/ports at entry and exit for visa-exempted travel.

[cleverD]

I,ve stated that we have travelled to these places in the last couple of years together to help justify our on going relationship.If you take the trouble to read the visa on arrival stamps in your passport for Malaysia,Vietnam,hong kong,Macau and Indonesia they all have a time limit, most 30 days so she has not overstayed in any of these countries and they are VISA,S.

[Livinginexile]

I,ve stated that we have travelled to these places in the last couple of years together to help justify our on going relationship.If you take the trouble to read the visa on arrival stamps in your passport for Malaysia,Vietnam,hong kong,Macau and Indonesia they all have a time limit, most 30 days so she has not overstayed in any of these countries and they are VISA,S.

Dave

Your post is full of contradictions, you say she has had numerous visa's to various countries that normally are very difficult for Thai people to get.

Then suddenly she is refused a UK visa even though you are attempting to sponsor her.

You have failed to mention...

1) Did you also sponsor her to the other countries you mention she has visited? Spain, Australia, UK?

2) You say her passport is nearly full of Visa's... how did she get them? on her own applications? or help from yourself or other farangs?

3) What are you're G/F's financial-family situations?

If what you say in your posts is true then this woman would not have difficulty obtaining a visa on her own merrits, yet even with you as sponsor she is declined.

If you would like our advice Dave, we really need the whole picture.

[Mahout Angrit]

It is highly unusual for a second visa to be refused especially with the extra evidence that she has always returned to Thailand from every other country she has visited (it doesn't matter how she obtained the visas only that she did). Maybe evidence was lost during the application (it wont be the first time) as you say below

When I picked up the envelope from VFAC the copy of the accounts were not returned so were probably never submitted by the VFAC to the embassy.

and if that is all that is mentioned as a reason for refusal on their letter then you should first confirm that with the ECO and ask if you can submit the documents required again. If you are sure there is nothing else then follow the appeals proceedures as outlined above

[the scouser]

Could someone please tell me what is involved in a judicial review.

If you want to apply for judicial review, you should really get legal advice. The cost, unfortunately, is enough to put off most potential litigants. Even if you "win" there is no guarantee that you will be awarded costs. Indeed, in my experience, it is common for the flawed decision to be withdrawn and the visa issued before the matter actually reaches court, in which case you will generally be responsible for your own costs up to that point.

A solicitor will be aware of the procedure to follow, but essentially, you have to issue what's called a letter before claim in which you set out the reasons why you think the decision is wrong, and give the respondent (i.e. the embassy) two weeks in which to reply. If they either do not reply or their response is unsatisfactory, you can then lodge the judicial review application at the High Court. The court will give the respondent a set amount of time to file their defence and once that's in, a judge will consider whether the matter merits a judicial review. This process is called being given leave to move. Once leave to move is given, a date will be allocated for a hearing. This may be either a table or an oral hearing.

By the way, I'm not touting for business, as I'm not a solicitor, so am unable to assist in judicial review matters.

Scouse.

[atlastaname]

There does seem to be a lot of people doubting you here. They may or may not be right. However if you care to post the text of the WHOLE refusal notice in the exact wording used , then it usually becomes clear exactly where the problem lies. I can't believe that they would refuse this JUST on the point you made. There is always more than 1 thing in any refusal i have ever seen. We could all be wrong but if you post the exact notice of refusal then you can prove we all are

[cleverD]

You are right there are a few doubters about me!!! I have just called to an internet shop to see if there are any useful replies before I head off to the airport to fly to the UK.I will post the actual wording on the refusal when I get home tomorrow.To answer some of your questions yes I have sponsered her on all applications and I know if I make another application after transfering a couple of thousand pounds from my business account into my private then I am sure the application would be successful,but that is not the point of this thread.The only difference between this application and the first was I had a higher credit balance (2000 pounds) than this time as I use my money in my business.As stated before I transfer 2000 a month and my fixed outgoings are about 1000 the rest pays credit card bills which are used in Thailand and to pay for flights etc and I have been to Thailand 3 times oct,nov and dec so there has been a few expenses recently but only gone overdrawn twice by about 80 quid in my opinion the bank statement doesn't look too bad but this is why I included a copy of my accounts with a turnover of over a million a year means on average I bank 80,000 a month which I think gives me more than adequate access to funds to sponser my GF.Got to go or will miss my flight!!

[GU22]

I included a copy of my accounts with a turnover of over a million a year means on average I bank 80,000 a month which I think gives me more than adequate access to funds to sponser my GF.

Turnover is irrelevant. Monthly income is irrelevant. It's the profit and the actual net income you draw from the business that counts.

However, as I said before, I am sure that there is more to this than meets the eye, so look forward to you posting the exact wording of the whole refusal notice. No edited highlights, please; we need the whole thing if we are to offer any worthwhile advice.

[cleverD]

Here is the exact wording of the refusal

You have applied for an entryclearance to the United Kingdomas a visitor.however I am not satisfiedyou meet the requirements of paragraph 41of the immigration rulesand in particular that:

You can maintain and accomodate yourself adequately from resources available to you,or from relatives or friends,without recourse to public funds or taking employment.

Because

You also failed to demonstratehow you will finance your holiday in the UK of 5 weeks.You have provided two bank statementsof your sponserwhich indicates he has just £694.51 of available funds.This is arguably,an insufficientamount of money to fund your visit.I am therefore not satisfied that you can maintain and accomodate yourself adequately from resources available to you,or from relatives or friends,without recourse to public funds or taking employment.

Your application has been considered on the basis of the papers and documents submitted and without an interview.I am aware that you have been given every opportunity to provide any documents you wish in support of your application.

Well thats it word for word and I just love the last paragraph !!!!!!

[the scouser]

In which case you can either submit the documents which demonstrate that you do have the resources, and ask that the decision be overturned, or apply again.

Scouse.

[fisherd3]

Go to your member of Parliament and tell him what happenned, he will be aware of the chaos existing at the British home office, clearly acknowledged by the current Home Secretary and no doubt contributed to by the previous two Home secretaries who resigned as a result of their own corrupt activities in the area of visa administration , which no doubt seeps into its fabric world wide.

Get the matter outside the jurisdiction of the Home Office in a way that does not cost you an arm and a leg, as long as you are inside their jurisdiction you are being taken as a sucker as you already know.

Edited February 12, 2007 by fisherd3

[cleverD]

I still think my bank statements should have been ok,I dont know where they get a figure of£694.51 from because there is not one statement submitted with this amount showing.There is no cash shown as drawn from this account as I draw it from my business acc.

I am very doubtful now of the VFS office in Bangkok as to what documentation is being forwarded my mates girlfriend submitted an application on the same day and her letter from her employer was not submitted and she is doing an open university degree and that paperwork was not seen again.

I am assuming that the paperwork that you pick up from the VFS in their envelope is the only documentation that the Embassy have seen,so the days of put everything in which you think may help are gone?

If I get the decision overturned what about the refusal stamp in her passport and when I apply in the future what do I write on the application form when it asks have you ever been refused a visa to the UK?

[the scouser]

Go to your member of Parliament and tell him what happenned, he will be aware of the chaos existing at the British home office, clearly acknowledged by the current Home Secretary and no doubt contributed to by the previous two Home secretaries who resigned as a result of their own corrupt activities in the area of visa administration , which no doubt seeps into its fabric world wide.

Get the matter outside the jurisdiction of the Home Office in a way that does not cost you an arm and a leg, as long as you are inside their jurisdiction you are being taken as a sucker as you already know.

This matter has got nothing to do with the Home Office, which deals only with immigration applications from within the UK.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

If I get the decision overturned what about the refusal stamp in her passport and when I apply in the future what do I write on the application form when it asks have you ever been refused a visa to the UK?

You won't be able to have the refusal stamp removed and you will need to declare the refusal. However, you are free to also explain the circumstances in which the refusal occurred.

If you believe that the VFS failed to submit various documents, then re-submit those that you think are relevant and ask that they review the decision.

Scouse.

[atlastaname]

Though you state that no one account has that figure of £694, in your initial post you do say that "2" of your statements show a balance of £694 in credit so obviously they have added together the 2 balances to come to that figure. They would not make that up. We have already explained why stock does not count (illiquid asset) so you can kind of see why it was refused. Being a VV the ECM/ECO is unliklely to overturn it because even if they did have that evidence showing the £100000 they would have disregarded it (in fact they probably do have it and have disregarded it ). As a VV is so easy to apply again for i think it would be quicker to re-apply properly this time than try to get it overturned.

This one really is a no-brainer . You just apply again showing that you do have adequate funds (go a bit overboard if you can just to be sure). The good news is that they didn't pick any other faults with your application so if you address this very easily addressed issue , how can they then refuse it ? Piece of cake

[cleverD]

Yes it was my fault for not making sure there was enough money showing in the account,will be transfering £3000 in today and looks like will have to let it sit there just to please the Embassy.I sent them downloaded copies of on line banking and have noted there is no mention on them of an agreed overdraft of £1000 which does show on the paper statements the bank send me.perhaps a lesson for us to learn.

[GU22]

Why did you only submit 2 bank statements? Why did you not submit statements for the account from which you will be transferring this £3k? In fact, don't transfer it, simply submit statements for the account it is currently in.

It seems that you can satisfy the financial requirement, but simply failed to show that you do.

Re apply, this time submitting evidence of all your available cash.

An yes, you were given every opportunity to provide the necessary evidence with the application. The ECO can only make a judgement based on the evidence submitted. If that evidence is incomplete, it is the fault of the applicant/sponsor, not the ECO.

[cleverD]

I did submit 6 months statements most of which had credit balances of around £1000 and I thought that would be adequate.The money is in my business account which normally runs in overdraft and I wonder if this is acceptable way of showing funds.I think better I transfer the money making sure it shows as a transfer from my business acc.