How to pick a trustworthy Thai language school for ED Visa? (Chiang Mai)

[YogaVeg]

Hi, I have been looking into signing up for a one-year ED Visa via a Thai language school, and I wonder:

How does one determine the authenticity of a school here?

I visited 3 schools but it didn't really clear things up.

My goals:

*-to actually learn Thai and avoiding "visa mill" type schools as I am going to learn the language, not just seek the visa. Isn't it obvious to the MOE who is for real and who isn't?

That said, I'm not really that interested in a grueling schedule or work load either.

*-to have free time to do other things, I would also like to attend massage school and cooking classes, enjoy some nightlife and meet folks, travel the country a bit, and I've noticed most schools want you there school's want you there 4 days a week midday, which isn't exactly conducive to having much of a life outside of the school.

One school I visited, which I probably shouldn't name, actually told me they only require people to come 2 days a week, though they will tell immigration I came 4 days a week, as they run optional field trips and other such activities to buffer the schedule. Um, Isn't this a major red flag, that they would tell a random stranger this, won't that school eventually have trouble with the MOE?

Interestingly, this school has great reviews and has been around for years.

Does anybody know of a reputable school where you actually learn Thai, that you can come for two full days a week, or do it on weekends, or at least evenings? 

Any tips on a reputable quality school in good standing that has some flexibility with attendance?

 

Anyway, thank you for any advice, great forum btw!

[sfokevin]

I learned to speak Thai at AUA Language Center a few (7) years ago and not thru a visa program as I already had a visa... They have been teaching for years and are not a visa centered place (but do offer visa assistance)... I really liked their teachers and methods... Oversll a great experience...

 

https://www.learnthaiinchiangmai.com/

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

I learned to speak Thai at AUA Language Center a few (7) years ago and not thru a visa program as I already had a visa... They have been teaching for years and are not a visa centered place (but do offer visa assistance)... I really liked their teachers and methods... Oversll a great experience...

 

https://www.learnthaiinchiangmai.com/

I did the same thing but had to learn a made up written language as opposed to learning to write Thai. Big mistake in my opinion.  I wasted a lot of time there that would have been better spent learning to read and write Thai at the same time learning to speak. 

[sfokevin]

47 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I did the same thing but had to learn a made up written language as opposed to learning to write Thai. Big mistake in my opinion.  I wasted a lot of time there that would have been better spent learning to read and write Thai at the same time learning to speak. 

By "made up" I guess your are referring to the phonetic technic? - which most if not all schools use - It is a great way to start the basics... but I agree if you want to really learn more to learn Thai script/alphabet  (Which they offer too)...

 

Took their Thai reading & writing course as well and was quite happy with both phonetic and reading/writing courses ?

 

But stay away from Kru Oranoot!... She was a brutal (but excellent) Ajahn!?

Edited September 23, 2018 by sfokevin

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

By "made up" I guess your are referring to the phonetic technic? - which most if not all schools use - It is a great way to start the basics... but I agree if you want to really learn more to learn Thai script/alphabet  (Which they offer too)...

 

Took their Thai reading & writing course as well and was quite happy with both phonetic and reading/writing courses ?

 

But stay away from Kru Oranoot!... She was a brutal (but excellent) Ajahn!?

Right on.  That's what I meant "the phonetic technique."   It's just as easy to get flash cards and learn the real Thai sounds connected to the Thai characters like the Thai school kids use.  Instead I spent hours learning a language that has no application.  Spend a hundred hours to learn a useless phonetic language or spend 100 hours to learn half the Thai alphabet.  I was duped.  Spend a bit more time and learn how to read and write Thai as well as speak Thai.  6 months instead of 12?  I'm here 20 years now and learned the hard way.  A bit more time spent in the beginning would have saved me hours of headaches for the next 19 years. 

[YogaVeg]

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

By "made up" I guess your are referring to the phonetic technic? - which most if not all schools use - It is a great way to start the basics... but I agree if you want to really learn more to learn Thai script/alphabet  (Which they offer too)...

 

Took their Thai reading & writing course as well and was quite happy with both phonetic and reading/writing courses

So you are saying they teach phonetics at UAU?

 

I'm confused. I've heard there is no standard phonetic system in Thailand, and marcusarelus just responded that studying phonetically was a waste of time in his opinion.

 

I would rather avoid both wasting my time and crafty tricks involving artificial languages.

 

Can anyone direct me to a credible school that actually focuses on the real (Thai language) thing?

 

I suspect lots of newbies just want to learn some basic phrases and avoid the Thai alphabet. Not me, I want to be able to read the signs as well as communicate effectively.

Am I asking too much to be able to do this in one year?

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Right on.  That's what I meant "the phonetic technique."   It's just as easy to get flash cards and learn the real Thai sounds connected to the Thai characters like the Thai school kids use.  Instead I spent hours learning a language that has no application.  Spend a hundred hours to learn a useless phonetic language or spend 100 hours to learn half the Thai alphabet.  I was duped.  Spend a bit more time and learn how to read and write Thai as well as speak Thai.  6 months instead of 12?  I'm here 20 years now and learned the hard way.  A bit more time spent in the beginning would have saved me hours of headaches for the next 19 years. 

Why cant you learn to read Thai now (or some time during the previous 19 years?)

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

So you are saying they teach phonetics at UAU?

 

I'm confused. I've heard there is no standard phonetic system in Thailand, and marcusarelus just responded that studying phonetically was a waste of time in his opinion.

 

I would rather avoid both wasting my time and crafty tricks involving artificial languages.

 

Can anyone direct me to a credible school that actually focuses on the real (Thai language) thing?

 

I suspect lots of newbies just want to learn some basic phrases and avoid the Thai alphabet. Not me, I want to be able to read the signs as well as communicate effectively.

Am I asking too much to be able to do this in one year?

Then head out to Payap University... but as you started this post with “I'm not really that interested in a grueling schedule or work load either.“ I did not initially offer this suggestion up to you... 

[sfokevin]

I do not see any reason to bash the phonetic method that is taught in ALL the for profit schools... It is what it is - fast and easy way to build a basic and broad Thai vocabulary, sentence structure as well as question words in 1-2 months and would serve as a good base for learning the alphabet and move on to reading & writing...  I recall that AUA basic beginners phonetic style classes have Thai script and phonetic included side by side on all their written material so one could learn the alphabet easily on ones own and use it in class as well... And anyone who does not continue on to reading & writing after 20 years here has only themselves to blame...

Edited September 23, 2018 by sfokevin

[YogaVeg]

 

 

23 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Then head out to Payap University... but as you started this post with “I'm not really that interested in a grueling schedule or work load either.“ I did not initially offer this suggestion up to you... 

I appreciate your advice and have heard of Payap as a 'serious school' option- but, frankly, when I look at their website, it's confusing what the deal is. They have an ED Visa page which has lots of warnings, they make it clear that the burden of getting/maintaining the visa would be MY responsibility (in contrast to others who seem to offer the visa service as part of their package) and I see no prices even. Doesn't seem like they cater to visa hopefuls.

https://inter.payap.ac.th/student-visa-information/

 

SLS Sub Panya (kinda in the same area) clearly said 20,000 baht one year visa, has some good reviews but not much of a web presence- only a FB page, so hard to judge. But they didn't respond to my email request to visit the school.

Edited September 23, 2018 by YogaVeg
Clarity

[YogaVeg]

13 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

I do not see any reason to bash the phonetic method that is taught in ALL the for profit schools... It is what it is - fast and easy way to build a basic and broad Thai vocabulary, sentence structure as well as question words in 1-2 months and would serve as a good base for learning the alphabet and move on to reading & writing...  I recall that AUA basic beginners phonetic classes have Thai writing included on all their written material so one could learn the alphabet easily on ones own and us it in class as well... And anyone who does not continue on to reading & writing after 20 years here has only themselves to blame...

Ok, point taken. I didn't know they all start phonetically and was reacting to the critique of it being a waste of time. 

 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Why cant you learn to read Thai now (or some time during the previous 19 years?)

I can but it means starting all over again.  When I first came to Thailand I was alone and able to go to college all day long and study at night.  I wasted the time and money on a silly language because I was scared off by the complicated look of Thai characters.  Now I have work and family responsibilities that make going to college 8 hours a day difficult plus 20 years ago I had more energy and life expectancy.  Why would I want to read Thai?  The social apps are all in written Thai.  20 years ago I could have used that.  Now I'm married. 

[marcusarelus]

38 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Then head out to Payap University... but as you started this post with “I'm not really that interested in a grueling schedule or work load either.“ I did not initially offer this suggestion up to you... 

I got scared away by Payap when I first got to CM and AUA was central, easy to get to and had a lady who also taught at the Univ or Minnesota or Wisconsin or something like that.  I should have gotten a Thai speaker and made the trip to Payap and found out more about it but I took what looked like the easier option at the time.  Doing it again no question I would go to Payap.  I don't know anything about the ED visa as I'm retired. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by marcusarelus

[sanemax]

23 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

SLS Sub Panya (kinda in the same area) clearly said 20,000 baht one year visa, has some good reviews but not much of a web presence- only a FB page, so hard to judge. But they didn't respond to my email request to visit the school.

That maybe old information , they doubled the required hours per week and thuse that one year became six months

[EricTh]

There are only a few options for the reputable schools with visa given

 

1. Payap University

This course is for serious learners. You WILL learn Thai after the course

 

2. Chiang Mai University

This course is more relaxing, it is meant to indulge yourself in Thai culture while learning some basic Thai. 

 

3. AUA

The environment and classrooms here is small when compared to the two above. I am not impressed with the teachers here either. Although it's supposed to be American Alumni but their English language is insufficient to teach Thai. Sorry, AUA lovers but that is my opinion.

 

4. There are some less reputable crammed-shops in shopping malls or shoplots but if you want to go this route. You might try this.

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by EricTh

[NaamGin]

14 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Then head out to Payap University... but as you started this post with “I'm not really that interested in a grueling schedule or work load either.“ I did not initially offer this suggestion up to you... 

I went to AUA for Thai 1 & 2, but for a variety of reasons I did not return. After asking around, the consensus in my circle of friends is that if you want to speak and understand Thai like a Thai, then go to Payap, so I did and am happy with my progression. Finishing the classroom learning process is just beginning as Thai idioms, slang, dialects and usage take years to master.  

[EricTh]

17 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

So you are saying they teach phonetics at UAU?

 

I'm confused. I've heard there is no standard phonetic system in Thailand, and marcusarelus just responded that studying phonetically was a waste of time in his opinion.

 

The reason some schools used phonetic to teach is because the Thai writing system is just too complicated to master for beginners or basic Thai learners.

 

One phonetic can correspond to many Thai alphabets and there are many rules to determine the tones and actual sounds. It's not as simple as mapping one-to-one between English and Thai, many students have felt intimidated after starting it.

 

It is better to master your speaking and listening skills before starting on the complicated writing system.

 

I've observed that 95% of foreigners who speak Indo-European languages or Japanese still can't speak the tones correctly or pronounce properly after years of study. 

 

 

 

[theoldgit]

Troll post removed.

[amexpat]

21 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Took their Thai reading & writing course as well and was quite happy with both phonetic and reading/writing courses ?

 

But stay away from Kru Oranoot!... She was a brutal (but excellent) Ajahn!?

I found that serious students liked Oranoot.  You really get your money's worth. I had reading/writing with her.

The phonetic system is necessary to get started but it's better to transition to script asap. I find my reading (limited) very

helpful but writing darn near impossible. It you don't know how it is spelled, good luck guessing. Amazing Thailand. 

 

A problem with the spoken classes at AUA is/was that the teacher would introduce some phrases, concepts, words, then

tell the students to practice speaking to each other.  Blind leading the blind. British, Japanese, French, etc trying to learn

by speaking terrible Thai to each other while the teacher does ???  I hope this has changed but it's been that way a long time. 

 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

The reason some schools used phonetic to teach is because the Thai writing system is just too complicated to master for beginners or basic Thai learners.

 

One phonetic can correspond to many Thai alphabets and there are many rules to determine the tones and actual sounds. It's not as simple as mapping one-to-one between English and Thai, many students have felt intimidated after starting it.

 

It is better to master your speaking and listening skills before starting on the complicated writing system.

 

I've observed that 95% of foreigners who speak Indo-European languages or Japanese still can't speak the tones correctly or pronounce properly after years of study. 

 

Don't agree with the above at all.  Tones are practice and the writing can be mastered by a 6 year old Thai child.  Talk to kids for clear pronunciation of words and tones  Bangkok is the easiest dialect to learn IMHO.  

[Thailand]

Plenty of places to learn Thai but the OP is asking to combine that with an ed visa.

[jak2002003]

OP.  I went to a school in Chiang Mai called Pro Language.  Its on Nimmanhemin Road.

 

It's just a small private language school, but very professional and it was a real school... never set up just to get ED visas.

 

I learnt in a group class... which was fun. I studied there 3 years.  After a while I moved to have a private one to one class, because I found the pace of learning was slowed down in a group class (as some people kept asking off topic questions, or started to have chats with each other).

 

In the private class you can tell the teacher what exactly you want out of and they will change the lesson to suit you.

 

Best advise about learning the language here is 'learn the reading and writing at the same time as speaking'.  It look complicated (and I am not a smart person) but it's not as bad as you might think.. and will soon all click together and really speeds up the real understanding of how to pronounce the words and the correct tones... also its fun when you can easily read a page of Thai to a Thai friend.  

 

 

[lordblackader]

So let me get this right- you "really" want to learn Thai but aren't prepared to do the hours or comply with the legal requirements of attending class.

Good luck with that. 

[YogaVeg]

1 minute ago, lordblackader said:

So let me get this right- you "really" want to learn Thai but aren't prepared to do the hours or comply with the legal requirements of attending class.

Good luck with that. 

Nope, you got it wrong, so allow me to clarify ☺

 

A careful read of my post should inform:

-Yes, I want the ED Visa

-Yes, I intend to learn Thai

-Yes, I would like some flexibility with schedule as I want to do other things also

 

I do not mean to imply I am not "prepared to do the hours or comply with the legal requirements of attending class" (your words)

 

I just re-read my original post and don't see reason to edit it, but to reiterate: having to go to a 2 hour class in the middle of the day 4 times a week is not conducive for travel, nor advantageous for taking other kinds of classes which all seem to be middle of the day...

I am asking advice for:

-reputable language schools in good standing with the MOE, who are good at teaching the language yet not militant, and especially those that might have evening/weekend/long days, to free up other days for other things. 

 

Here is an example: the Self Defence ED Visa requires meeting on Saturdays and Sundays, for a year. This schedule allows the student to pursue other activities 5 prime days a week, while presumably satisfying the government's requirements.

Perhaps something similar exists in the language study offerings?

 

Thanks in advance!

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Don't agree with the above at all.  Tones are practice and the writing can be mastered by a 6 year old Thai child.  Talk to kids for clear pronunciation of words and tones  Bangkok is the easiest dialect to learn IMHO.  

Didn’t you tell us in a previous post that you have been here 20 years and still not mastered reading & writing...

[EL159]

Beware of the many fake language schools whos sole aim is to provide a cover for people wanting to live here illegally ie with a 12 month visa, which then gets renewed again...and again.....Heard about a young chap recently, thought he was being really smart signing up to one of those schools at a cost I believe of around 25,000 baht. Within a few weeks of signing up and paying he had to leave back to his country.  The authorities know which of the language schools are fake and do fairly regular checks these days.

 

I observed quite an interesting exchange at immigration last year as follows:

Officer: So you ve been at a school learning Thai for 3 months?

Applicant: Thats correct.

Officer: Say something to me in Thai?

Applicant: Err, Err, Err......

Officer: Next please!

[YogaVeg]

2 minutes ago, EL159 said:

Beware of the many fake language schools whos sole aim is to provide a cover for people wanting to live here illegally ie with a 12 month visa, which then gets renewed again...and again.....Heard about a young chap recently, thought he was being really smart signing up to one of those schools at a cost I believe of around 25,000 baht. Within a few weeks of signing up and paying he had to leave back to his country.  The authorities know which of the language schools are fake and do fairly regular checks these days.

 

I observed quite an interesting exchange at immigration last year as follows:

Officer: So you ve been at a school learning Thai for 3 months?

Applicant: Thats correct.

Officer: Say something to me in Thai?

Applicant: Err, Err, Err......

Officer: Next please!

Ha! Exactly what I want to avoid. I can't imagine why anyone would shell out 25,000 baht and not try to learn something! Nor can i fathom how someone would feel ok approaching an IO with blatantly false pretenses, so easy to get caught.

Probably, Immigration should just have standard tests they give to ED applicants, to sort the wheat from the chaff.

The honest folks would have no problem passing the tests, and the sneaks would have to go back to the TVs where they belong.

 

I wish there was a good current list of schools to avoid...

[YogaVeg]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Don't agree with the above at all.  Tones are practice and the writing can be mastered by a 6 year old Thai child.  Talk to kids for clear pronunciation of words and tones  Bangkok is the easiest dialect to learn IMHO.  

Wow. This is an interesting and inspiring way of looking at things. If a 6 year old can grasp it, why couldn't I?

 

Thanks for this thought! ????????

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

Ha! Exactly what I want to avoid. I can't imagine why anyone would shell out 25,000 baht and not try to learn something! Nor can i fathom how someone would feel ok approaching an IO with blatantly false pretenses, so easy to get caught.

Probably, Immigration should just have standard tests they give to ED applicants, to sort the wheat from the chaff.

The honest folks would have no problem passing the tests, and the sneaks would have to go back to the TVs where they belong.

 

I wish there was a good current list of schools to avoid...

Didn't you get enough information in this thread about what schools are good and which to avoid?  It's going to take you 3 years to learn a bit of Thai.  Do you have a way to legally support yourself while you go to school for 3 years?  Maybe I missed you talking about that.

Edited September 24, 2018 by marcusarelus

[YogaVeg]

4 hours ago, EricTh said:

There are only a few options for the reputable schools with visa given

 

1. Payap University

This course is for serious learners. You WILL learn Thai after the course

 

2. Chiang Mai University

This course is more relaxing, it is meant to indulge yourself in Thai culture while learning some basic Thai. 

 

3. AUA

The environment and classrooms here is small when compared to the two above. I am not impressed with the teachers here either. Although it's supposed to be American Alumni but their English language is insufficient to teach Thai. Sorry, AUA lovers but that is my opinion.

 

4. There are some less reputable crammed-shops in shopping malls or shoplots but if you want to go this route. You might try this.

 

 

 

Thank you for this. I am going to TSL to sit in on a class and sign up for one of their "cultural" Sat classes. I enjoyed the video and the teacher seems really good-natured and fun plus speaks excellent English. Also, there are a few other 'mall' schools nearby to check out.

 

I took a hard look at CMU's offerings, and they look great on their website, but soo many other sites keep referring to the debacle a few years ago where students got stripped of their visas and no refunds... Perhaps it isn't fair to judge them presently from one bad episode? I noticed that some of the current teachers were there when it happened (2010?)

My guess is teachers weren't even involved in a bad management scenario?

 

Brings me back to the question: how does one ascertain where a school stands, Visa wise, in the eyes of the MOE?

 

Here's another question that popped in my mind: if I pay for a years' ED Visa with a credit card, and get scammed somehow where the school shuts down or the Visa gets rejected  through no fault of my own, would there be any protections via my credit by perhaps a fraud complaint?