How to pick a trustworthy Thai language school for ED Visa? (Chiang Mai)

[Airalee]

I took classes (private lessons) for almost 2 years at SEEtefl where the manner in which I was taught depended upon which teacher I had.  The first one used the phonetic method and the subsequent two used the Thai alphabet.  Like others, I recommend learning the Thai alphabet as it really helps with proper pronunciation in a much more effective way than using phonetics.  Even now, if I can’t quite “hear” what a Thai person is saying to me, I ask them to spell it in Thai for me which helps quite a bit.

 

WRT scheduling, it is possible to schedule classes somewhat to fit your desired schedule but it also depends on the individual teacher.  My best teacher there was a full time Ajarn at Payap (teaching English) so I had to wait for her to complete her normal workday and would only be able to schedule classes in the late afternoon.

[Airalee]

10 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

Here's another question that popped in my mind: if I pay for a years' ED Visa with a credit card, and get scammed somehow where the school shuts down or the Visa gets rejected  through no fault of my own, would there be any protections via my credit by perhaps a fraud complaint?

SEEtefl (the school I used for private lessons) took care of providing me with all the materials necessary for getting a visa and also facilitated all the extensions.  They are primarily a TEFL school, but are one of the most reputable ones around so you most likely won’t have the same risk of them shutting down as you would have with many of the fly by night, small language only schools.  You will have to attend the minimum hours of classes(lessons) as required by the MOE as they are by no means a “visa mill”.

[YogaVeg]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Didn't you get enough information in this thread about what schools are good and which to avoid?  It's going to take you 3 years to learn a bit of Thai.  Do you have a way to legally support yourself while you go to school for 3 years?  Maybe I missed you talking about that.

Um, I did read about 4 or 5 schools that folks like, but I do not believe a single school was identified in this thread as one to avoid, other than some generalizations about 'mall' schools...?

I think I'm pretty carefully reading thread, but feel free to redirect me if I missed something.

 

CMU has both been recommended and advised against... Still, I like their website and am a fan of big universities (I hold a BA from UC)

 

I've also no intention of going to language school for 3 years, 6 months to one year is as far as I'm willing to look at, seriously hoping take me anywhere near that length of time to acquire the basic skills I seek to enjoy the country socially as I desire.

 

Since you asked, I've worked solid for the last 3 decades to aquire enough savings to finally travel the world for a few years, so money isn't of issue. That said, I've no interest in a retirement commitment to any country, and I also just got here a month ago.

Perhaps if I really fall in love with SE Asia I will consider getting a TEFL and generating some income legally eventually but first I want to explore and settle in.

To clarify, I am not a digital nomad and have no intention of working here illegally.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, YogaVeg said:

Um, I did read about 4 or 5 schools that folks like, but I do not believe a single school was identified in this thread as one to avoid, other than some generalizations about 'mall' schools...?

I think I'm pretty carefully reading thread, but feel free to redirect me if I missed something.

 

CMU has both been recommended and advised against... Still, I like their website and am a fan of big universities (I hold a BA from UC)

 

I've also no intention of going to language school for 3 years, 6 months to one year is as far as I'm willing to look at, seriously hoping take me anywhere near that length of time to acquire the basic skills I seek to enjoy the country socially as I desire.

 

Since you asked, I've worked solid for the last 3 decades to aquire enough savings to finally travel the world for a few years, so money isn't of issue. That said, I've no interest in a retirement commitment to any country, and I also just got here a month ago.

Perhaps if I really fall in love with SE Asia I will consider getting a TEFL and generating some income legally eventually but first I want to explore and settle in.

To clarify, I am not a digital nomad and have no intention of working here illegally.

The problem you will run into (even if you don't know it) is you can't take advantage of the Thai social networks without being able to read and write Thai.  Reading and writing opens up a world that almost all of the posters on TV only dream about.  Written communication in Thai will allow you to meet nice people who are not trying to scam you in fact the opposite.  Reading ThaiVisa you get a mostly negative view of Thailand because they have no way to communicate with most upstanding Thai people.  I don't know what a TEFL is worth without a teaching degree.  I don't think much. 

[Airalee]

1 minute ago, YogaVeg said:

Um, I did read about 4 or 5 schools that folks like, but I do not believe a single school was identified in this thread as one to avoid, other than some generalizations about 'mall' schools...?

You won’t have people say specifically which schools to avoid due to the defamation laws...hence, the generalizations regarding “mall” schools.  Some of the smaller schools just don’t get enough business to remain economically viable.  That is why people are recommending the major universities (although there was a problem in the past (8-10 years ago) with CMU cancelling a program out of the blue which caused concern for the students.

[YogaVeg]

13 minutes ago, Airalee said:

SEEtefl (the school I used for private lessons) took care of providing me with all the materials necessary for getting a visa and also facilitated all the extensions.  They are primarily a TEFL school, but are one of the most reputable ones around so you most likely won’t have the same risk of them shutting down as you would have with many of the fly by night, small language only schools.  You will have to attend the minimum hours of classes(lessons) as required by the MOE as they are by no means a “visa mill”.

Yay! Thank you for your testimonial ????

I spent time on SEEtefl's website last night researching the month Tefl course and internship they offer, but I failed to investigate their Thai language study side of things.

I def liked what I saw regarding the seriousness of their TEFL program and student reviews and such. I just figured I would get a grasp on the language before going for a TEFL, I am in no hurry to work and just landed, wanna do the tourist thing for a bit...

 

This is the kind of thing I like, the possibility of doing both Thai language study and TEFL at the same time, or at least by the same school is very appealing. I love to multitask (right now I'm taking Thai massage classes and cooking classes), so this was a perfect heads-up!

 

Thank you.

[Airalee]

FWIW, the website for the Thai language section of SEEtefl is https://effectivethai.com/

 

SEEtefls website is https://seetefl.com/

 

I took their TEFL course also (back in 2012) but only for fun.  I never taught.  You can teach for a limited number of years with a non teaching/education degree (mine degree is a BS in economics).  I found the TEFL course useful and very demanding.

[YogaVeg]

10 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The problem you will run into (even if you don't know it) is you can't take advantage of the Thai social networks without being able to read and write Thai.  Reading and writing opens up a world that almost all of the posters on TV only dream about.  Written communication in Thai will allow you to meet nice people who are not trying to scam you in fact the opposite.  Reading ThaiVisa you get a mostly negative view of Thailand because they have no way to communicate with most upstanding Thai people.  I don't know what a TEFL is worth without a teaching degree.  I don't think much. 

I wholeheartedly agree. I lived and worked in Mexico for 1 1/2 years ages ago, and the difference in communication and connection once I learned some Spanish was night and day.

I've read with some amusement critiques on this forum of Thailand! But I take it all with a grain of salt. After a decade of living/working in big mean cities of California, I feel like I'm walking with angels here in Thailand. Folks here are so gracious and kind, gentle energy and big smiles...

I find approaching everyone with a Wai and a smile, saying "krap" after everything, and I get nothing but kindness in return.

Only makes me want to be able to communicate more effectively.

[1FinickyOne]

21 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

Ok, point taken. I didn't know they all start phonetically and was reacting to the critique of it being a waste of time. 

 

I think what they are referring to is the typical phonetic transliteration guides used. An upside down a fora as in apple... a double upside down e for e as in feed. I never had the patience to learn these translations. I preferred to learn Thai. 

 

But what you are asking is a bit contradictory. You want to learn a complicated language and thoroughly but don't really want to put in an intensive effort..

 

And what is MOE? What language is that?

[Stuber]

My girlfriend and I came to Chiang Mai last year to study Thai and and tried several of the schools. We started out at Pro Language which also did our ED-visas for us and found that the level was very varied, depending on who the teacher was, and more importantly, how motivated the other students were. I was in a class of 15 and frequently found myself as the only student there, which meant that I was effectively getting private lessons. Lessons were two hours, twice a week. The teaching level for group work was very basic for the early classes and slow, but the advanced classes set quite a high standard and we were able to watch and translate "la khon" TV series. 

 

I also signed up to AUA, which I really enjoyed. We had lessons for two hours every day, where I started in group three for speaking. This was mostly taught in a combination of Thai and phonetic script. Group four was taught only in Thai script including all handouts, although you got them the day before in order to be able to prepare the day before. The scripts allowed you to discuss wider topics such as politics, natural catastrophes, poverty, economics, environment, so that you got a wider vocabulary than the usual food and family topics. 

 

When I finished group four at AUA, there was no other option to continue there, so I went to TSL and had a few months of group lessons and found them also pretty good. I only had three in my advanced class, and the pace was pretty fast. I can't remember, but think this was about 6-8 hours a week. 

 

I'm now in Bangkok, and speak pretty good Thai, read it comfortably, albeit way too slowly to be able to read Thai subtitles on movies (I only get around halfway before they change) and am glad I spent the time on it in Chiang Mai. 

 

Incidentally, my girlfriend also went to Payap, but found the pace far too slow and ended up going back to AUA again. I know that they have a good reputation, so this may have been a one-off with her particular class. 

 

If you take the time to do the work, then all of these schools will teach you Thai. It all comes down to whether you do the homework or not, how many timewasters you have in your class and how much you're motivated to learn. 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, YogaVeg said:

I wholeheartedly agree. I lived and worked in Mexico for 1 1/2 years ages ago, and the difference in communication and connection once I learned some Spanish was night and day.

I've read with some amusement critiques on this forum of Thailand! But I take it all with a grain of salt. After a decade of living/working in big mean cities of California, I feel like I'm walking with angels here in Thailand. Folks here are so gracious and kind, gentle energy and big smiles...

I find approaching everyone with a Wai and a smile, saying "krap" after everything, and I get nothing but kindness in return.

Only makes me want to be able to communicate more effectively.

It is even more fun when you get out into the countryside and small cities. 

[Airalee]

31 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

I think what they are referring to is the typical phonetic transliteration guides used. An upside down a fora as in apple... a double upside down e for e as in feed. I never had the patience to learn these translations. I preferred to learn Thai. 

 

But what you are asking is a bit contradictory. You want to learn a complicated language and thoroughly but don't really want to put in an intensive effort..

 

And what is MOE? What language is that?

MOE is Ministry of Education

 

I have had 4 different teachers and two of them used the simple English transliteration instead of the official phonetic alphabet.  The phonetic alphabet would have been better but then I would have had to learn that also.  Simple English just made it more confusing.

[YogaVeg]

32 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

 

But what you are asking is a bit contradictory. You want to learn a complicated language and thoroughly but don't really want to put in an intensive effort..

 

And what is MOE? What language is that?

Perhaps there is confusion in the way I ask? 

I totally get that Thai is a complicated language, and am willing and able to put in the intensive effort, in fact I think to spend the money and not put in the effort is silly. 

 

What I don't like tho, is the idea of going 4 or 5 days a week to 2 hour classes. That, coupled with the commute, eats up the week in a way I find undesirable. I want to do a lot of things other than just study the language. Like travel and study other things, have a social life, ect.

 

I don't see why (yet I don't see available) language schools don't offer something like 2 days a week full time, then 5 days off. I would love to sit in the classroom for 2 solid days then have 5 to do whatever I want, like fly to a southern beach or go to Pai or whatever. It's not like I wouldn't be practicing my language skills on my days off.

Or even just night time classes, so I could do massage school during the day. 

But I'm not seeing it.

I see Mon-Fri 1pm to 3pm.

That eats up the day, eats up the week, and gives me less freedom than I'd like.

Does that make sense? 

I can't be the only one thinking this way...

 

MOE = The Ministry of Education is the Thai governmental body responsible for the oversight of education in Thailand.

 

[Airalee]

4 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

Perhaps there is confusion in the way I ask? 

I totally get that Thai is a complicated language, and am willing and able to put in the intensive effort, in fact I think to spend the money and not put in the effort is silly. 

 

What I don't like tho, is the idea of going 4 or 5 days a week to 2 hour classes. That, coupled with the commute, eats up the week in a way I find undesirable. I want to do a lot of things other than just study the language. Like travel and study other things, have a social life, ect.

 

I don't see why (yet I don't see available) language schools don't offer something like 2 days a week full time, then 5 days off. I would love to sit in the classroom for 2 solid days then have 5 to do whatever I want, like fly to a southern beach or go to Pai or whatever. It's not like I wouldn't be practicing my language skills on my days off.

Or even just night time classes, so I could do massage school during the day. 

But I'm not seeing it.

I see Mon-Fri 1pm to 3pm.

That eats up the day, eats up the week, and gives me less freedom than I'd like.

Does that make sense? 

I can't be the only one thinking this way...

 

MOE = The Ministry of Education is the Thai governmental body responsible for the oversight of education in Thailand.

 

The day/time requirements changed after I was a student but SEE is pretty flexible.  I’d suggest giving Neung a call there.

[dundas]

Sounds like you want the flexibility of individual lessons. 

 

FWIW, I attended CMU In 2010 and although I liked my teacher, I didn't have such a great time at the hands of the admin ... yes, I remember having to make a trip to KL and back in order to stay legally in the country (visa waiver on my return from KL), because my Ed Visa was no longer valid  .... I would never go back to CMU. Enough said. 

 

 

[YogaVeg]

14 minutes ago, Airalee said:

The day/time requirements changed after I was a student but SEE is pretty flexible.  I’d suggest giving Neung a call there.

Thank you, I will.

[watcharacters]

3 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

A careful read of my post should inform:

-Yes, I want the ED Visa

-Yes, I intend to learn Thai

-Yes, I would like some flexibility with schedule as I want to do other things also

 

I do not mean to imply I am not "prepared to do the hours or comply with the legal requirements of attending class" (your words)

 

 

The casual poster on THV is destined to misread your post and reply in a biting fashion.

 

Good luck to you..

[YogaVeg]

15 minutes ago, dundas said:

Sounds like you want the flexibility of individual lessons. 

 

FWIW, I attended CMU In 2010 and although I liked my teacher, I didn't have such a great time at the hands of the admin ... yes, I remember having to make a trip to KL and back in order to stay legally in the country (visa waiver on my return from KL), because my Ed Visa was no longer valid  .... I would never go back to CMU. Enough said. 

 

 

Yes I like everything about the idea of private classes except the cost $$$

 

You aren't the first to caution against the lack of support/compassion with CMU's admin ????

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Don't agree with the above at all.  Tones are practice and the writing can be mastered by a 6 year old Thai child.  Talk to kids for clear pronunciation of words and tones  Bangkok is the easiest dialect to learn IMHO.  

 

This is from my own observation of YMCA higher level classes. I asked some of them and they say they have been living in Thailand for about 5 to 7 years.

 

English phonetics can also be mastered by a 6 year old English child but try teaching an average Thai adult to pronounce 'this' or 'stall' or 'fish' properly. 

 

Learning a second language as an adult is way different from learning it as a first language as a child.

[EricTh]

7 hours ago, EL159 said:

 

 

I observed quite an interesting exchange at immigration last year as follows:

Officer: So you ve been at a school learning Thai for 3 months?

Applicant: Thats correct.

Officer: Say something to me in Thai?

Applicant: Err, Err, Err......

Officer: Next please!

????

[marcusarelus]

18 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

This is from my own observation of YMCA higher level classes. I asked some of them and they say they have been living in Thailand for about 5 to 7 years.

 

English phonetics can also be mastered by a 6 year old English child but try teaching an average Thai adult to pronounce 'this' or 'stall' or 'fish' properly. 

 

Learning a second language as an adult is way different from learning it as a first language as a child.

 

Recording_2.m4a

[YogaVeg]

7 hours ago, EL159 said:

 

I observed quite an interesting exchange at immigration last year as follows:

Officer: So you ve been at a school learning Thai for 3 months?

Applicant: Thats correct.

Officer: Say something to me in Thai?

Applicant: Err, Err, Err......

Officer: Next please!

Which is dumber: paying 25,000 baht to study a language then not bothering, or approaching an IO with a big stupid bluff that he did indeed study?

 

I imagine that clown walked away seriously questioning his life choices! ????

Talk about losing face ????????

and prob lost all the tuition money and who knows what else...

[Myshkin]

You may give a try to Walen International Thai School. I believe their method is exactly what you are looking for:

http://www.thaiwalen.com/en/The_Method

 

 

 

[YogaVeg]

Interestingly enough, I see patterns. Disheartening ones. The highly recommended schools tend to cost almost double that of the smaller newer schools...

 

And they all come at a premium when the word "visa" gets involved. And they all have strict 'pay the majority in advance' and 'non-refundable' language, the bigger and better the school, the more harsh the term (the more to gamble/lose) so it seems.

 

Frankly, and I've spent hours looking, the strong-arm language is a turn-off. Makes me wonder if the smartest/safest approach is just border runs and the private class here and there, on my time/terms not theirs...

 

 

[Airalee]

Just now, YogaVeg said:

Interestingly enough, I see a pattern. The highly recommended schools tend to cost almost double that of the smaller newer schools...

 

And they all come at a premium when the word "visa" gets involved. And they all have strict 'pay the majority in advance' and 'non-refundable' language, the bigger and better the school, the more harsh the term (the more to gamble/lose) so it seems.

 

Frankly, and I've spent hours looking, the strong-arm language is a turn-off. Makes me wonder if the smartest/safest approach is just border runs and the private class here and there, on my time/terms not theirs...

 

 

That makes complete sense.  You may want to consider getting a 6 month METV (multiple entry tourist visa) from your home countries embassy.  That can ultimately, depending upon your border run schedule, be extended for up to a 9 month stay. Then bounce out and grab a 60 (extendable to 90) day SETV and you’re good for a year. 

 

I was lucky when I took my class as the new requirements weren’t in effect and I was able to go to school Tuesday and Thursday for 2 hours sessions (4hr per week) leaving me plenty of time to put even more money into the economy through additional travel/tourism, tennis lessons and lots of cheap healthcare too.

[Ulysses G.]

On 9/22/2018 at 9:52 PM, sfokevin said:

 

But stay away from Kru Oranoot!... She was a brutal (but excellent) Ajahn!?

I'm guessing that is the same one that was teaching there around 30 years ago when I learned Thai. It K. Malee still there? She raised exotic cats with her farang husband (Ed?). 

[lordblackader]

On 9/24/2018 at 12:19 PM, YogaVeg said:

I just re-read my original post and don't see reason to edit it, but to reiterate: having to go to a 2 hour class in the middle of the day 4 times a week is not conducive for travel, nor advantageous for taking other kinds of classes which all seem to be middle of the day...

 

Which part of you're signing up for a full time Thai language course and hence having to put in the hours do you not get?

 

An ED visa isn't a free pass for you to stay in Thailand for as long as you want and travel. The government requires a minimum amount of study. 

 

There is a non-Thai course with ED visa in Chiang Mai that will allow you to do so, however, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention it here. Lets just say it doesn't involve learning a language and the requirements of turning up are minimal. 

[YogaVeg]

26 minutes ago, lordblackader said:

Which part of you're signing up for a full time Thai language course and hence having to put in the hours do you not get?

 

An ED visa isn't a free pass for you to stay in Thailand for as long as you want and travel. The government requires a minimum amount of study. 

 

There is a non-Thai course with ED visa in Chiang Mai that will allow you to do so, however, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention it here. Lets just say it doesn't involve learning a language and the requirements of turning up are minimal. 

What part of my earlier comments are you failing to understand lordblackader? (such as the following, I posted some time ago)

"A careful read of my post should inform:

-Yes, I want the ED Visa

-Yes, I intend to learn Thai

-Yes, I would like some flexibility with schedule as I want to do other things also

 

I do not mean to imply I am not "prepared to do the hours or comply with the legal requirements of attending class"

 

Lordblackader, I do not mean to be rude here, but it is apparent that you are simply not bothering to follow the thread. Commenting multiple times the same thing, and not even being aware of it because you don't bother to read the comments, frankly gets annoying to deal with.

 

I've made it very clear I fully intend on putting in the hours, and I fully intend on learning language, and I don't want to have to go to school Monday through Friday for 2 hours each day plus the commute time, I'd rather do it say on the weekend or at least a couple of full-time days a week.

And I think that's the last time I'm going to say that ????

 

I appreciate everyone's mindful feedback, but if you're going to keep regurgitating the same statements not applicable to my situation, making it apparent that you just can't be bothered to read what I'm writing, I will just stop responding to you at all.

 

Whew! Glad we got that settled ????

 

Regarding your vague referral, I assume you're talking about the self-defense ED Visa acquired through Hand2hand Combat. I'm not afraid to mention it, and I'm not sure why you would be either. However, had you mindfully read the thread, you would see that this is hardly applicable to this conversation. Thanks!

[1FinickyOne]

23 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

Perhaps there is confusion in the way I ask? 

I totally get that Thai is a complicated language, and am willing and able to put in the intensive effort, in fact I think to spend the money and not put in the effort is silly. 

 

What I don't like tho, is the idea of going 4 or 5 days a week to 2 hour classes. That, coupled with the commute, eats up the week in a way I find undesirable. I want to do a lot of things other than just study the language. Like travel and study other things, have a social life, ect.

 

I don't see why (yet I don't see available) language schools don't offer something like 2 days a week full time, then 5 days off. I would love to sit in the classroom for 2 solid days then have 5 to do whatever I want, like fly to a southern beach or go to Pai or whatever. It's not like I wouldn't be practicing my language skills on my days off.

Or even just night time classes, so I could do massage school during the day. 

But I'm not seeing it.

I see Mon-Fri 1pm to 3pm.

That eats up the day, eats up the week, and gives me less freedom than I'd like.

Does that make sense? 

I can't be the only one thinking this way...

 

MOE = The Ministry of Education is the Thai governmental body responsible for the oversight of education in Thailand.

 

I would guess you are not going to be able to tell a school when to have classes, but you could with a private tutor or you could learn on your own. I don't care much for formal schooling and have learned on my own. I don't remember if you are looking for an ed visa as part of it. I have surely seen a few friends who were doing ok on their own and went to a school and totally lost interest due to bad teachers and bad programs. If the ed visa is part of it see if you can work something out with a school that will be to your liking. 

[Genericnic]

The transliteration that has been talked about here is the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA). It is what linguists use. It will take you at least as long to learn it - if not much longer - than to learn to read the Thai alphabet. While I hate to recommend it only because I think it is seriously overpriced, the quickest and easiest way to learn to read and pronounce Thai is at Learn Thai From A White Guy. Google it to find the website. If you do an hour or so a day, you will have the entire alphabet including tones and pronunciation down in less than 2 weeks. Your vocabulary will grow much faster once you learn to read. As for writing, there are a number of YouTube videos that give you the basics of writing. Here is a good place to start. As with every other skill, the more you practice, the better you get. 

 

Payap is where I started. They had originally started teaching reading from day one but a year or so before I started there they moved the reading and writing to module 4. I really think that slowed down my learning. That said, for serious students, I highly recommend Payap. 

 

Just my thoughts on it.

 

David