10 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

How is offering the people a vote a “slippery road to dictatorship”?

There's already been a vote.

 

10 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

That’s democracy. 

No, THAT'S democracy

They have not agreed on anything yet, all hot air, trying to pinch the Lib Dems colours with u-turn turn on brexit. 

 

Now saying they will re-nationalise Rail, Royal Mail,  energy companies and more... all within 5 years, haven't we heard this before? yes, and did they do it? 

 

And was it only 9 years since Gordon Brown sold off Royal Mail?

 

 

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

People are free to call for a vote. 

 

It’s a democratic right. 

How many?  You obviously do not mind how many votes are demanded, because as long as the issue of EU membership is unresolved, we remain a member by default, and you will be happy.

41 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

There's already been a vote.

 

No, THAT'S democracy

The fact there’s been a vote does not preclude another if called for. 

 

That’s Democracy

7 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

The electorate are far better informed now and once a final deal (or no deal) has been reached it should be that deal that then goes to a referendum with the full knowledge of 'this is what Brexit actually means'.

I'm not sure the electorate are 'far better informed now'.

All we hear are predictions of doom and gloom, and all from pro-EU people / bodies. Inevitably this might scare many people into voting Remain.

 

41 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

How many?  You obviously do not mind how many votes are demanded, because as long as the issue of EU membership is unresolved, we remain a member by default, and you will be happy.

I didn’t vote first time as I don’t live in the U.K.  

 

To vote on an issue that does not affect my life is wrong. 

 

By that measure I will also not vote if there is another vote. 

 

Nonetheless I still oppose the authoritarian, anti democratic voices that would deny the democratic rights of others to call for another vote. 

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by Bluespunk

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

The major British political parties conspired with this deceit by telling the British electorate to vote to remain, using taxpayers' money to do so.

I must have missed that. When did that happen?

That was quite a fundamental miss Spidey!

The British Prime Minister and his Chancellor of the Exchequer campaigned for us to Remain during the referendum. Our government used £9m of taxpayers money to send a leaflet to every household supporting Remain (and spreading fear about leaving the EU).

Don't get too excited all you Remainers  - I posted this on another thread earlier:

 

New Brexit referendum only on 'nature' of a deal

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell dashes pro-EU campaigners' hopes by ruling out having the option to stay in the EU on the ballot.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-new-brexit-referendum-should-only-be-on-nature-of-a-deal-11507247

 

 

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

If he resigns, who do you think will replace him?

Chances of Corbyn resigning: 0%

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm not sure the electorate are 'far better informed now'.

All we hear are predictions of doom and gloom, and all from pro-EU people / bodies. Inevitably this might scare many people into voting Remain.

More likely scare Brexiteers into talking more nonsense.

3 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

How many?  You obviously do not mind how many votes are demanded, because as long as the issue of EU membership is unresolved, we remain a member by default, and you will be happy.

How many? As many as Parliament decides in its wisdom.

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Don't get too excited all you Remainers  - I posted this on another thread earlier:

 

New Brexit referendum only on 'nature' of a deal

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell dashes pro-EU campaigners' hopes by ruling out having the option to stay in the EU on the ballot.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-new-brexit-referendum-should-only-be-on-nature-of-a-deal-11507247

 

 

Starmer says different. Nothing has been ruled out. 

8 hours ago, Basil B said:

Much of this is to detract attention from Labours big problem, "Jeremy". 

 

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ah, ‘Project Smear’.

 

 

More like 'Project Reality'

The Future 'A' Team

 

Diane Abbott - Home Secretary; Emily Thornberry - Foreign Secretary; Jeremy Corbyn - Prime Minister and First Lord of Anti-Semitism; John McDonnell - Chancellor of  Emptying the Exchequer; Shami Chakrabati - Minister for Whitewash.  I wonder what position they will find for Dawn Butler

In March 2009, Butler came under criticism for claiming almost the full £23,000 annual second home allowance, despite her other home in Stratford  being the same distance from Parliament as her Brent South home. She had claimed £2,650 for new central heating and £2,308 for a suite including a whirlpool bath.

Dawn Butler.....a fine example of the socialist practice of redistribution of wealth ........so long as it's redistributed their way.

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by aright

9 minutes ago, aright said:

 

 

In March 2009, Butler came under criticism for claiming almost the full £23,000 annual second home allowance, despite her other home in Stratford  being the same distance from Parliament as her Brent South home. She had claimed £2,650 for new central heating and £2,308 for a suite including a whirlpool bath.

Dawn Butler.....a fine example of the socialist practice of redistribution of wealth ........so long as it's redistributed their way.

As opposed to the Torres who of course have no history of such shenanigans

6 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

As opposed to the Torres who of course have no history of such shenanigans

What's a Spanish football player got to do with it?

5 minutes ago, aright said:

What's a Spanish football player got to do with it?

He’s probably doing the same. 

????  I think the difference is, unlike the Labour Party the Tories don't bang on about redistribution of wealth.

Also the Tories wouldn't dream of having someone like Diane Abbott (as intelligent as a house brick) in the Cabinet.

IMO Labour plans a massive tax raid on the middle class, much higher rates of income tax for those earning over £46000 pa, huge inheritance tax rises, taxes on home ownership and businesses, VAT on private school fees etc. If you combine this with the  nationalization of huge swathes of the economy the impact will be severe.

History says it will take a generation and a reelected Tory Government to repair the damage.

For maybe the first time the lower middle class will be made to hurt as much as the working class imo.

Several off-topic posts with personal remarks have been removed. 

 

Please stay on topic and cease with the personal commentary.  

So the fact that more people voted for Brexit initially than didn't counts for Nothing? Do they keep having a referendums until the outcome is what they want?

19 hours ago, leither69 said:

3rd, 4th?? What happened to democracy? It's done,. People are being manipulated into fear.  There's a real reason why!! the EU is running scared and other "controlling influences" are pushing for a status quo. They don't like citizens taking ownership of their future.

And so if you had a second Vote would they demand a clearer majority e.g 60/40 in favour. And if not 60/40 then the leave vote stands? I think Corbyn is as lost as May . The cast is set you leave and make your way. No turning back.

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Come up with a better idea then.

Call the whole thing off, it's beyond a joke now.

12 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

The fact there’s been a vote does not preclude another if called for. 

 

That’s Democracy

 And if the Leavers lose, They also are entitled to another vote and so on, ad finitum,

 

That is also Democracy according to you.

 

12 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I didn’t vote first time as I don’t live in the U.K.  

 

To vote on an issue that does not affect my life is wrong. 

 

By that measure I will also not vote if there is another vote. 

 

Nonetheless I still oppose the authoritarian, anti democratic voices that would deny the democratic rights of others to call for another vote. 

 

I live in Thailand and I am entitled to vote, so I voted to leave which is MY democratic right.

 

Very few people are opposing another vote but if it goes to the Remainers then the Leavers are also entitled to call for another vote which brings us to how MANY referendums should we have until there is a clear winner?

5 hours ago, Spidey said:

Call the whole thing off, it's beyond a joke now.

 

Why should they?

 

More people voted to leave than stay.

 

Don't their votes and democratic rights mean anything to you?

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 And if the Leavers lose, They also are entitled to another vote and so on, ad finitum,

 

That is also Democracy according to you.

 

 

I live in Thailand and I am entitled to vote, so I voted to leave which is MY democratic right.

 

Very few people are opposing another vote but if it goes to the Remainers then the Leavers are also entitled to call for another vote which brings us to how MANY referendums should we have until there is a clear winner?

For me it would be wrong to vote in a vote that does not affect my life.

 

Not denying your right to do so.

 

Just as I would not deny others the right to call for another vote.

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Bluespunk
spelling

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Why should they?

 

More people voted to leave than stay.

 

Don't their votes and democratic rights mean anything to you?

As I've already said, the pre referendum campaign was a farce. Now that voters realise the implications of leaving, they should be allowed to make an informed vote.

13 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

The fact there’s been a vote does not preclude another if called for. 

 

That’s Democracy

Ooooohhh... watch for that slippery slope now.

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As I've already said, the pre referendum campaign was a farce. Now that voters realise the implications of leaving, they should be allowed to make an informed vote.

 

I can remember a few years ago that the Labour Party leader at the time, Tony Blair to the UK into a war and that was based on lies and confusion but I don't remember the Labour Party arguing about that. Nor do I remember being allowed to challenge that decision.

 

Was that also democracy?

Just now, billd766 said:

 

I can remember a few years ago that the Labour Party leader at the time, Tony Blair to the UK into a war and that was based on lies and confusion but I don't remember the Labour Party arguing about that. Nor do I remember being allowed to challenge that decision.

 

Was that also democracy?

Good analogy. It was also based on a lie (WMD) which wasn't sufficiently challenged by the opposition.

 

Once the lie was exposed Blair was history.

 

We should bin Brexit, which was based on a lie, just as Blair was binned.

Just now, Spidey said:

Good analogy. It was also based on a lie (WMD) which wasn't sufficiently challenged by the opposition.

 

Once the lie was exposed Blair was history.

 

We should bin Brexit, which was based on a lie, just as Blair was binned.

 

But he wasn't binned for quite a while later and after many thousands of people died.

 

He is still waltzing around with his ex PMs pension the pension that the EU gave him.

 

He also charges an incredibly high price for any speech he gives.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/11670425/Revealed-Tony-Blair-worth-a-staggering-60m.html

 

Back in 2015 according to the Telegraph 

 

Tony Blair’s fortune now stands at some £60 million – three times the amount he has previously claimed, detailed analysis by the Telegraph has found.

Despite receiving tens of millions of pounds in fees from private clients around the world, his financial affairs can appear as complex and opaque as his global influence is remarkable.

• In pictures: Tony Blair's £25m property empire

The former prime minister, his wife Cherie and older children Euan, Nicky and Kathryn, now control a property empire covering some 10 homes across England and worth in excess of £25 million.

 

Mr and Mrs Blair jointly hold title deeds to a £7.5 million Grade II listed townhouse close to Hyde Park, the £1.7 million mews house behind it, and an £8 million Grade I-listed 17th century manor house, formerly owned by Sir John Gielgud, near Aylesbury, Bucks.

Cherie and Euan, 31, own the £4.4 million Georgian townhouse in Marylebone, West London, where he lives with wife Suzanne.

Mrs Blair and her son also own 24 rented flats spread across properties in Stockport and Manchester, and purchased under the name Oldbury Residential Limited.

 

And there's where that came from.

 

Tony Blair, Champagne Socialist.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/11547808/Revealed-how-Tony-Blair-makes-his-millions.html

 

But that's democracy folks.

52 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As I've already said, the pre referendum campaign was a farce. Now that voters realise the implications of leaving, they should be allowed to make an informed vote.