There isn't the slightest chance that Labour will do anything except implode. Some of us remember the Militant Tendency aka Militant, and how Militant consigned Labour to the dustbin of politics. And it took a Thatcherite like Blair to get Labour re-elected - Blair, the biggest warmonger and liar in British politics in our living memory.

 

And now the entryist Trotskyist Momentum, the new Militant, are consigning Labour to the scrapheap of history again. The working class really deserve something better.

Isn't it about time that grown ups started behaving as such. We are actually closer to a NO DEAL Brexit than we have ever been to having a 2nd referendum, yet the melts continue banging the drum for the latter. How come no-one is talking about the seriousness of a NO DEAL Brexit? 

Maybe the self obsessed know it alls on here actually know SFA about a NO DEAL and can only talk about "its not fair if we dont get a 2nd referendum"

I couldnt believe my eyes when I read on a previous thread (similar subject) a post saying, and I quote . . . 

"Wouldn't it be the democratic thing to do to have a 2nd referendum if that is what half of the population wants"  Let that just sink in for a minute

Did anyone see that poor little luvvy on Question Time (available on BBC iPlayer) last week where her mum said there should be a 2nd referendum because her daughter was not old enough to vote the first time round and now she is old enough she would vote remain???!!!! Let that sink in for a minute

A third of the audience applauded her. Let that sink in for a minute

These are the types of idiots we have to try and educate on a daily basis. 

4 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

What a horrible nonsense. 

May tried to hide the consequences when leaving EU. 

However truth and evidence got It's way to people's head. 

The more they know the more they won't leave. 

Another poll is their democratic right 

The deception started long before May. Boris Johnson and his cronies were the chief architects of the great deception.

 

The whole Brexit campaign was based on blatant lies and deception. We were given the false impression that we were being led into the land of milk and honey, the flow of cash to the EU would immediately stop, engorging the treasury and enabling the government to redistribute the wealth into badly needed areas such as the NHS and education. Our borders would immediately be sealed with the flow of immigrants immediately cut off. We were badly duped.

 

I don't blame BJ for this deception. When a politician spouts bare faced lies to the people , it's the job of the opposition to expose the lie. This never happened. Corbyn, being a closet Brexiteer, silenced his cronies and allowed the lie to persist. He should shoulder the blame for the British people voting for Brexit.

 

However, now the lie has been exposed, we, the British people must be allowed to vote on the truth and not the great lie.

A second referendum is essential to preserve British democracy.

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by Spidey

Much of this is to detract attention from Labours big problem, "Jeremy". 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

It's hard to believe that the Labour party will commit suicide by supporting the remain cause - bearing in mind it was Labour party areas that voted leave!  Most of their MPs supported remain, leaving them in a bit of a difficult situation ????.

 

But as pointed out by Basil B above, it's all 'smoke and mirrors', as MPs look for a way to circumvent their constituents' vote - whilst pretending they're doing nothing of the sort....

Take a look at how Labour voters voted during the referendum, then factor in the swing in public away from Brexit.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/

 

65% of Labour voters who voted in the referendum voted Remain.

 

I’m not sure how you figure that Labour would be ‘committing suicide by supporting Remain’.

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

Much of this is to detract attention from Labours big problem, "Jeremy". 

Ah, ‘Project Smear’.

 

 

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

The deception started long before May. Boris Johnson and his cronies were the chief architects of the great deception.

 

The whole Brexit campaign was based on blatant lies and deception. We were given the false impression that we were being led into the land of milk and honey, the flow of cash would immediately stop, engorging the treasury and enabling the government to redistribute the wealth into badly needed areas such as the NHS and education. Our borders would immediately be sealed with the flow of immigrants immediately cut off. We were badly duped.

 

I don't blame BJ for this deception. When a politician spouts bare faced lies to the people , it's the job of the opposition to expose the lie. This never happened. Corbyn, being a closet Brexiteer, silenced his cronies and allowed the lie to persist. He should shoulder the blame for the British people voting for Brexit.

 

However, now the lie has been exposed, we, the British people must be allowed to vote on the truth and not the great lie.

A second referendum is essential to preserve British democracy.

Yes I agree but I can not see it happening.   May won't be deposed until after Brexit and Corbyn cronies will just do nothing and say a lot as always.   Now if Labour could force a General Election soon there may be a chance but only if a vote of no confidence is successful and also they would have to include a clear cut promise in their election manifesto that they would hold another referendum within 6 weeks of being elected.  That referendum must be straightforward;   Leave the EEC or stay within it. Anything else would be a fudge leaving the UK as much in the poo poo then as it is currently.

Another referendum without an option to Remain is pointless. Corbyn needs to get his act together or get out.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

15 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Yes I agree but I can not see it happening.   May won't be deposed until after Brexit and Corbyn cronies will just do nothing and say a lot as always.   Now if Labour could force a General Election soon there may be a chance but only if a vote of no confidence is successful and also they would have to include a clear cut promise in their election manifesto that they would hold another referendum within 6 weeks of being elected.  That referendum must be straightforward;   Leave the EEC or stay within it. Anything else would be a fudge leaving the UK as much in the poo poo then as it is currently.

 

I agree with you on the proviso that the referendum this time has set questions, parameters of the pass/fail ratio 60%. 2/3, 75% or whatever and the stipulation that if that pass mark is not reached then the original result stands.

 

It will have to be agreed to by ALL political parties before and election is called.

6 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Another referendum without an option to Remain is pointless. Corbyn needs to get his act together or get out.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

If he resigns, who do you think will replace him?

8 hours ago, DoctorG said:

So, will the nearly half that lose next time be getting a third ballot? Fourth? etc.

 

Probably not.

 

Sorry about that.

 

 

8 hours ago, DoctorG said:

So, will the nearly half that lose next time be getting a third ballot? Fourth? etc.

 

You can certainly campaign for one.

 

It's a free country.

 

 

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by Enoon

11 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Probably not.

 

Sorry about that.

 

 

 

Why not? It is called democracy.

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I agree with you on the proviso that the referendum this time has set questions, parameters of the pass/fail ratio 60%. 2/3, 75% or whatever and the stipulation that if that pass mark is not reached then the original result stands.

 

It will have to be agreed to by ALL political parties before and election is called.

Come on ! that last proviso of yours is the killer. You know the political parties will never agree.  The only thing that all political parties have ever agreed to in the UK is MP's expense entitlements.

9 hours ago, terryw said:

Labour will ignore a democratic vote to get into power. A slippery slope to dictatorship.

 

A vote which has no strength or legitimacy in constitutional law.

 

Effectively not part of the process of democracy in the UK.

 

Thus UK democracy is not in the least bit threatened with dictatorship as a result of ignoring it.

 

Perversely it was the Conservatives who threatened to usurp UK democracy, by attempting to push Brexit through without consulting parliament, as if the referendum was a legitimate instrument.

 

UK democracy is, you see, Representative Democracy.

 

That is that the mob elect MPs to make decisions for them .

 

If you want to make a Direct Democratic vote, one that changes policy, you need to apply for Swiss citizenship.

 

Or move for constitutional change in the UK that changes our system to one of Direct Democracy.

 

You were misled and lied to by the Conservative Government, purely to serve their own, internal, party needs.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by Enoon

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Why not? It is called democracy.

 

Because by that time the "cause" will have "shot it's bolt".

 

But that is not guaranteed.

 

Which is why I said probably not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

The whole Brexit campaign was based on blatant lies and deception.

Actually the whole EU project has been based on lies and deceit, for 70 years:

 

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually lead to federation.” – Jean Monnet, one of the founders of the EU, 1952.

 

The major British political parties conspired with this deceit by telling the British electorate to vote to remain, using taxpayers' money to do so. The Voters ignored them and said "leave".

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by My Thai Life

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I agree with you on the proviso that the referendum this time has set questions, parameters of the pass/fail ratio 60%. 2/3, 75% or whatever and the stipulation that if that pass mark is not reached then the original result stands.

 

It will have to be agreed to by ALL political parties before and election is called.

None of which is democratic or in the public interest.

16 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The major British political parties conspired with this deceit by telling the British electorate to vote to remain, using taxpayers' money to do so.

I must have missed that. When did that happen?

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I must have missed that. When did that happen?

Wow you missed that, really! I believe it was called the referen dum.

Just now, My Thai Life said:

Wow you missed that, really! I believe it was called the referen dum.

Conservatives campaigned to leave. Labour sat on the fence and gave the leavers ammunition. Which major party campaigned to remain? The Green party?

Just now, Spidey said:

Conservatives campaigned to leave. Labour sat on the fence and gave the leavers ammunition. Which major party campaigned to remain? The Green party?

Perhaps you should re-read the history. I believe there were even pamphlets paid for by taxpayers.

 

All history now though isn't. You're leaving.

2 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Perhaps you should re-read the history. I believe there were even pamphlets paid for by taxpayers.

 

All history now though isn't. You're leaving.

Yes, we're leaving with a hard Brexit and many years of austerity (possibly a lifetime) for the British taxpayer. But don't worry at least the big conglomerates will make a killing. They need to thank you for not seeing the wood for the trees.

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Conservatives campaigned to leave. Labour sat on the fence and gave the leavers ammunition.

Oh I get it, you're talking about the GE campaign rather than the original campaign. They flipped didn't they, to get in line with their constituencies.

 

Now the entryist Trotskyist Momentum are trying to flip Labour again. Flipped or not Labour are flipping well f****ed. Sad really,  I want an effective opposition, but I also want an effective government. Neither seems to be in the offing!

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Yes, we're leaving with a hard Brexit and many years of austerity (possibly a lifetime) for the British taxpayer. But don't worry at least the big conglomerates will make a killing. They need to thank you for not seeing the wood for the trees.

The personal attacks as ever the hallmark of the leaver. Yes we are leaving. The economic outcome is not clear to anyone, except perhaps yourself. The net cumulative effect has been estimated to be +7% to -10% of GDP over 15 years. Work that out at GDP per head, and see what a small price it is to pay for our sovereignty.

56 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Actually the whole EU project has been based on lies and deceit, for 70 years:

 

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually lead to federation.” – Jean Monnet, one of the founders of the EU, 1952.

 

The major British political parties conspired with this deceit by telling the British electorate to vote to remain, using taxpayers' money to do so. The Voters ignored them and said "leave".

Jean Monnet never said that, although he was very clearly in favour of a European federation.

The quote is from an anti-EU Conservative MP who was facetiously misquoting Monnet.

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

Actually the whole EU project has been based on lies and deceit, for 70 years:

 

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually lead to federation.” – Jean Monnet, one of the founders of the EU, 1952.

 

The major British political parties conspired with this deceit by telling the British electorate to vote to remain, using taxpayers' money to do so. The Voters ignored them and said "leave".

More hogwash and once again I refer you to the first page of The Treaty of Rome.

 

No conspiracy, no deceit, Black and white text translated into the language of every nation signing the treaty.

27 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The personal attacks as ever the hallmark of the leaver. Yes we are leaving. The economic outcome is not clear to anyone, except perhaps yourself. The net cumulative effect has been estimated to be +7% to -10% of GDP over 15 years. Work that out at GDP per head, and see what a small price it is to pay for our sovereignty.

The U.K. maintains its sovereignty and always has done.

 

 

2 hours ago, Esso49 said:

Come on ! that last proviso of yours is the killer. You know the political parties will never agree.  The only thing that all political parties have ever agreed to in the UK is MP's expense entitlements.

 

So what do you suggest?

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

None of which is democratic or in the public interest.

 

Come up with a better idea then.