Protein powder - which is best?

[vinegarbase]

So much bad information on here.

 

1. DO NOT buy muscletech who is the same company that got a class action lawsuit just a few years ago for cheating their customers for protein spiking. The way protein is tested is by testing the nitrogen content. This can be artificially boosted by adding things like creatine, BCAA's and taurine. 

2. Whey protein is NOT all the same. A super low-grade cheap whey protein that is made from cheese that came from sick Chinese cows and has had it's protein denaturated 2 times is not at all the same as a high-grade whey protein (possibly organic) from New Zealand that came from the skim milk of healthy cows and was cold processed undenaturated. Most protein from the big brands just slap a fancy colorful plastic label with a famous athlete sponsor and sell you a tub full of untested cheap Chinese garbage. Did you know that Chinese free form BCAA's are made from duck feathers and human hair sometimes, these frequently show up in your nice protein blends advertising the extra BCAA's. 

3. Food is always the top choice but anyone that is a serious lifter and needs the extra protein will not be able to digest that much food fast enough so they need to supplement. The best thing to supplement with if you have to use a protein supplement is Peptopro, a protein hyrdrosylate or any type of pre digested protein peptides from a quality source. Whey Isolate's and a Micellar Casein is also ok but you need to find a quality source. 

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

No need at all to use a protein powder, get your protein from food.

 

Contrary to what  people commonly  think, there is protein in staples such as rice and bread, and in vegetables - just not complete proteins i.e. lacking 1 or more essential  amino acids but containing many others. You need only a small amount of foods with complete protein to make up for this. 

 

If you are a lacto-ovo vegtarian then eggs and milk products (inc yogurt and cheese) will easily fill this gap.

 

Even if not, soy and soy products are also complete protein so having that each day will balance you out. (soy milk, tofu etc)

 

In addition simply combining foods that contain different amino acids will provide a  complete intake. A good example is  beans  together with a cereal (rice, bread etc). Together, a complete protein.  Even combinations of starches can work: potato curry on rice, fior example, provides complete protein because the amino acids absent in the one are found in the other. Which is why this has been a staple in some Asian countries for years.

 

Nuts are also a very good protein source.

 

If you are consuming soy products, nuts, and beans - and most definitely if you are consuming any eggs or dairy - you are almost certainly already getting enough protein.

 

If you do your own cooking, meat subsititutes made of texturized soy protein are readily available here in all sorts of shoes and sizes. often called here "protein Kaset" because the nutrition dept at Kasetsart university did work on it.  If you eat at Thai vegetarian restaurants, that is what they are using in place of meat in most instances. it is a complete protein. Has little taste of its own but readily soaks up the taste of sauces and spices so does very well in Thai dishes. Also works fine in western dishes like spaghetti and chili. It is especially availabel during the annual vegetarian festival which is coming up soon, but you can usually find it other times on the main supermarket shelves, just not in as many different shapes and sizes.

 

What you may need to worry about if you are not lact-ovo  - i.e. don't eat eggs and milk - is Vitamin B12. You might need to supplement that. If you regularly consume dairy and eggs probably OK as both are good sources but if in doubt easy enough to get your levels measured, simple blood test.

 

 

All of this effort you outline is what makes WPC and WPI such wonderful supplements. You don't have to worry about cooking and amino acid profiles. You're getting the most bioavailable protein in a very convenient way.

 

Of course, nobody needs it, but it certainly makes life much easier, especially if you're right into sports, and in particular strength sports. It can also be a very good way to skip meals, if fat loss is desired, and thereby reduce overall daily calorie consumption, still being confident of getting sufficient protein. It's a great way to take a break from all the food planning, purchasing and preparation. A lazy way? Perhaps, but it works for me. I might have a couple of solid meals a day and add one or two protein drinks, which in my case often include fruit and raw eggs, plus additional supplements such as magnesium, iodine, and rock salt solution. I sweat a lot, so add quite a bit of extra salt. The good salt. My current favourite is Redmond Real Salt.

[tropo]

8 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

So much bad information on here.

 

1. DO NOT buy muscletech who is the same company that got a class action lawsuit just a few years ago for cheating their customers for protein spiking. The way protein is tested is by testing the nitrogen content. This can be artificially boosted by adding things like creatine, BCAA's and taurine. 

2. Whey protein is NOT all the same. A super low-grade cheap whey protein that is made from cheese that came from sick Chinese cows and has had it's protein denaturated 2 times is not at all the same as a high-grade whey protein (possibly organic) from New Zealand that came from the skim milk of healthy cows and was cold processed undenaturated. Most protein from the big brands just slap a fancy colorful plastic label with a famous athlete sponsor and sell you a tub full of untested cheap Chinese garbage. Did you know that Chinese free form BCAA's are made from duck feathers and human hair sometimes, these frequently show up in your nice protein blends advertising the extra BCAA's. 

3. Food is always the top choice but anyone that is a serious lifter and needs the extra protein will not be able to digest that much food fast enough so they need to supplement. The best thing to supplement with if you have to use a protein supplement is Peptopro, a protein hyrdrosylate or any type of pre digested protein peptides from a quality source. Whey Isolate's and a Micellar Casein is also ok but you need to find a quality source. 

 

That's a nice way to start a post. i.e. so much bad information here.

 

As if your information is particularly impressive.

 

I don't know where you get your information on Chinese whey. Which products readily available in Thailand use Chinese whey? All the whey protein I've been getting is from the USA, and I know where too and have checked out the sources. I also have seen chemical assays. I don't buy the fancy plastic containers with all the additives. I'm definitely not interested in added BCAA's. NZ whey is probably some of the best, but getting it in Thailand is difficult and I prefer to let other people go through the hassle of importing it, so I don't need to buy 20kg bags of it.

 

I've have seen certificates of analysis for most of the whey I've consumed over the years. Here's an example: 

 

https://s3.images-iherb.com/cms/pdf/cgn-01064-01167-itested-wheyproteinisolate-83118.pdf

[JacChang]

11 hours ago, robblok said:

You do understand that all whey protein is basically the same ?

Sure, just like all the cars on the road are the same. All metal boxes with 4 wheels. It's your choice how you want to understand things.

[JacChang]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

If you're going to lecture us about protein supplements, we could do without the Amway plug. Just the name Amway puts me off without knowing anything about the formula.

 

What you should do is explain why you think it's good. What benefits are you getting compared to other formulas you've tried? How do you determine your benefits? "Try it - you'll like it - I guarantee it", doesn't cut it. We need scientific information.

 

WPI and WPC are pure supplements made from the whey part of whole milk. Same with Casein which is made from the curds of whole milk.

 

Whey protein is one of the best-studied supplements in the world with loads of science to back up its benefits.

 

Start here and learn: (there are 45 scientific studies referenced in this article to back up the claims):

 

10 Evidence-Based Health Benefits of Whey Protein

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-health-benefits-of-whey-protein#section1

 

 

 

Go Re-read what I wrote and get your attitude in check. Nobody is lecturing anyone or saying whose idea is better. Life isn't always about competing. You starting the reply with "Just the name Amway puts me off". How's that for ignorance? How is your behavior appropriate? Have you thought about that? Imagine you bringing up GNC, and I just go "Ohhh GNC, alright end of story. Don't tell me further. I don't even care about the ingredient list."

The post wasn't for you to read if you aren't interested. If you aren't interested in Amway, that's your decision to choose not to know about something. Other readers may be interested and would like to know what the better options out there are.

If WPI and WPC works for you, that's great. Nobody going to argue with you on that.

I've been through those as well, finally settle on the two I prefer. Amway's protein is in smaller sizes and more expensive. So I prefer Garden of Life's protein, this I source from iherb as well. Same saying goes, try it, could be the only protein you will buy this lifetime.

[JacChang]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No need at all to use a protein powder, get your protein from food.

 

Contrary to what  people commonly  think, there is protein in staples such as rice and bread, and in vegetables - just not complete proteins i.e. lacking 1 or more essential  amino acids but containing many others. You need only a small amount of foods with complete protein to make up for this. 

 

If you are a lacto-ovo vegtarian then eggs and milk products (inc yogurt and cheese) will easily fill this gap.

 

Even if not, soy and soy products are also complete protein so having that each day will balance you out. (soy milk, tofu etc)

 

In addition simply combining foods that contain different amino acids will provide a  complete intake. A good example is  beans  together with a cereal (rice, bread etc). Together, a complete protein.  Even combinations of starches can work: potato curry on rice, fior example, provides complete protein because the amino acids absent in the one are found in the other. Which is why this has been a staple in some Asian countries for years.

 

Nuts are also a very good protein source.

 

If you are consuming soy products, nuts, and beans - and most definitely if you are consuming any eggs or dairy - you are almost certainly already getting enough protein.

 

If you do your own cooking, meat subsititutes made of texturized soy protein are readily available here in all sorts of shoes and sizes. often called here "protein Kaset" because the nutrition dept at Kasetsart university did work on it.  If you eat at Thai vegetarian restaurants, that is what they are using in place of meat in most instances. it is a complete protein. Has little taste of its own but readily soaks up the taste of sauces and spices so does very well in Thai dishes. Also works fine in western dishes like spaghetti and chili. It is especially availabel during the annual vegetarian festival which is coming up soon, but you can usually find it other times on the main supermarket shelves, just not in as many different shapes and sizes.

 

What you may need to worry about if you are not lact-ovo  - i.e. don't eat eggs and milk - is Vitamin B12. You might need to supplement that. If you regularly consume dairy and eggs probably OK as both are good sources but if in doubt easy enough to get your levels measured, simple blood test.

 

 

Thanks for the great infos ????
Being adding large servings of yoghurt to the daily diet recently. Home made yoghurt with just milk and probiotics, no artificial addictive. Way better than the ones bought at the supermarket.

Natural food will always be the best for the human body. Protein powder like vitamin supplements, will always be secondary supplements to fill up the missing holes of our primary real food diet.

[tropo]

1 minute ago, JacChang said:

Go Re-read what I wrote and get your attitude in check. Nobody is lecturing anyone or saying whose idea is better. Life isn't always about competing. You starting the reply with "Just the name Amway puts me off". How's that for ignorance? How is your behavior appropriate? Have you thought about that? Imagine you bringing up GNC, and I just go "Ohhh GNC, alright end of story. Don't tell me further. I don't even care about the ingredient list."

The post wasn't for you to read if you aren't interested. If you aren't interested in Amway, that's your decision to choose not to know about something. Other readers may be interested and would like to know what the better options out there are.

If WPI and WPC works for you, that's great. Nobody going to argue with you on that.

I've been through those as well, finally settle on the two I prefer. Amway's protein is in smaller sizes and more expensive. So I prefer Garden of Life's protein, this I source from iherb as well. Same saying goes, try it, could be the only protein you will buy this lifetime.

You should do some re-reading too. My attitude will remain the same about Amway due to their marketing practices. When you push Amway, you're pushing a brand, with all the hyped up propaganda used to promote overpriced multi-level marketed products. Amway is all about brainwashing people to buy overpriced products and they've obviously done a good job on you. Anyone who buys multi-level marketed products is paying ridiculous prices too because it's all about making a profit for your upline. It's virtually a religion. They make it so expensive that you have great incentive to push the costs downline. You have no empirical evidence to show it's better than straight whey products and just suggest we should try it because YOU say it's the best. What specific advantages do you think people who currently use whey protein will get if the switch to your Amway protein?

 

I'm not pushing a brand. It's pure WPC or WPI. It doesn't come any more basic than that. I just gave an option of where it can be bought for a reasonable price in Thailand. It comes in 20kg bags from the US and it is transferred to consumer size 1kg lots, with basic labels: WPC, or WPI. There's no hype and nothing is added.

[JacChang]

5 hours ago, RichardThailand said:

 

I agree with you on this but most of the population has lived there lives being educated by advertising from food, dairy and supplement companies into thinking they need additional protein that can only be obtained through buying processed products. Many comments on this thread are very much a reflection of what people have had drilled into them by the media and large corporations over many years.  Reminds me of the advertisements that used to promote the benefits of smoking many years ago. 

Yea, sometimes the things we believe in or even certain supplement brands we've come to trust, may let us down. Too much propaganda, and so called "research", from what sources? Not the government. Not a reliable source. A few marketing department sets up 10-20 websites on the google search directories. Buyers read them, thinking it's an independent source for supplement information, and goes to the website to buy them. I used to be fully confident in taking vitamin supplements, protein, herbs, etc. Until you get more aware of, that they are not what they claimed to be. Pollution and unwanted contamination in vitamins supplements, protein powders, it's all in the news. How many years have we been taking them without the authorities noticing and informing us? Quality control management on the servings is another issue. Even top companies are unable to provide actual decent deviation for the mg of each nutrition. Some go overboard on each batch, some too less, etc.

Safest still with natural food.

[JacChang]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

You should do some re-reading too. My attitude will remain the same about Amway due to their marketing practices. When you push Amway, you're pushing a brand, with all the hyped up propaganda used to promote overpriced multi-level marketed products. Amway is all about brainwashing people to buy overpriced products and they've obviously done a good job on you. Anyone who buys multi-level marketed products is paying ridiculous prices too because it's all about making a profit for your upline. It's virtually a religion. They make it so expensive that you have great incentive to push the costs downline. You have no empirical evidence to show it's better than straight whey products and just suggest we should try it because YOU say it's the best. What specific advantages do you think people who currently use whey protein will get if the switch to your Amway protein?

 

I'm not pushing a brand. It's pure WPC or WPI. It doesn't come any more basic than that. I just gave an option of where it can be bought for a reasonable price in Thailand. It comes in 20kg bags from the US and it is transferred to consumer size 1kg lots, with basic labels: WPC, or WPI. There's no hype and nothing is added.

Fair enough. Just to let you know, I dislike Amway as well, and the people who are among them. Any friends who join Amway, sooner or later, aren't friends anymore. It's just a very uncomfortable atmosphere, when "Amway" people are present.

But, I only said it, because that protein is actually good, likewise with the ingredient they have stated if it's true.

I've found Garden of life to be equal to, or better than Amway's, which I've replaced now. As the size is larger and cheaper too, as well as the ingredient list is better.

[tropo]

Just now, JacChang said:

Fair enough. Just to let you know, I dislike Amway as well, and the people who are among them. Any friends who join Amway, sooner or later, aren't friends anymore. It's just a very uncomfortable atmosphere, when "Amway" people are present.

But, I only said it, because that protein is actually good, likewise with the ingredient they have stated if it's true.

I've found Garden of life to be equal to, or better than Amway's, which I've replaced now. As the size is larger and cheaper too, as well as the ingredient list is better.

I actually talk from personal experience as I was in Amway back in the 80's... along with some other multi-level companies around that time.

 

To be clear here, when you're talking about this Amway protein you're talking about a specific marketed formula. When I discuss whey protein, I'm not discussing a formula, just the basic raw protein. No sweeteners, no flavours, no additives. When various supplement companies start adding various ingredients to the whey, they are also getting into marketing, just as Amway does. Unflavoured whey is becoming more popular these days as a lot of people are starting to see the light, as well as save money.

 

 

 

[robblok]

5 hours ago, JacChang said:

Sure, just like all the cars on the road are the same. All metal boxes with 4 wheels. It's your choice how you want to understand things.

I think after 25 years of lifting and protein powders and studying them I know a bit about them. Your comparison with cars is crazy.  In basis all the protein is the same and if you buy protein that originates in the EU or US then its basically all the same and safe. The values are the same and regulations are the same. 

 

Then when they add sweeteners and stuff things can change a bit but not much.. and its all a matter of preference. But you can't really claim one is better then the other.. hell its hard to claim that protein powder does anything.

[tropo]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

I think after 25 years of lifting and protein powders and studying them I know a bit about them. Your comparison with cars is crazy.  In basis all the protein is the same and if you buy protein that originates in the EU or US then its basically all the same and safe. The values are the same and regulations are the same. 

 

Then when they add sweeteners and stuff things can change a bit but not much.. and its all a matter of preference. But you can't really claim one is better then the other.. hell its hard to claim that protein powder does anything.

That's right! Claims that one powder is superior to another are mysterious to me. How would anyone know the difference? Would you wake up feeling better? Have more energy? Improved sports performance? Stronger? Faster muscle growth? I doubt it very much. Adding protein doesn't achieve anything if you're already getting sufficient protein from other food sources. Unless you're really hitting the weights hard you really don't need all that much. I just take whey as insurance against not having enough protein in my diet. A bit extra doesn't do any harm, although it does no good either. You do need more protein when you get old as your body doesn't assimilate it as well. It can help slow down sarcopenia, which is knocking at most of our doors.