remainers keep churning out these poll results hoping they will come true but no more refs will happen..march 19 looms ..the EU mafia will play hardball right till the very last seconds to thwart brexit

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

On and on yeh best of luck with what would happen to a country if that was the way to do it

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If the U.K. didn’t want to go that way they shouldn’t have opened Pandora’s referendum box. 

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

As a person who voted Remain I would not if there were another rerun referendum unless Messers: Junkers, Barnier, etc were to jump under a EU bus, and there were a number of concessions the things Cameron was (or should have been) asking for.

I didn’t vote then, wouldn’t vote now.

 

I don’t live in the U.K. anymore. 

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Whatever it takes? Looking from the outside, the whole idea seems obviously self destructive. If it's not done yet, and it's not, why feel obligated to follow through on a clear mistake? 

 

It's crazy, but it's what over 50% voted for, and that hasn't changed much.  Polls do not trump a referendum.

 

It is quite puzzling that opinion has not changed, but you have to conclude people want out, and perhaps even at a price.  

 

I suppose to understand it as an American you might have to regard it as the UK's Trump moment. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 20187 yr by mommysboy

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

 

It's crazy, but it's what over 50% voted for, and that hasn't changed much.  Polls do not trump a referendum.

 

It is quite puzzling that opinion has not changed, but you have to conclude people want out, and perhaps even at a price.  

 

I suppose to understand it as an American you might have to regard it as the UK's Trump moment. 

 

 

 

With the same (or rather connected) elements working at the background to manipulate public opinion. Demonstrates once more that the democratic systems' need to adapt in order to address present day effects and capabilities of information technology.

 

 

340 to 227 Id call that a Landslide, BUT this is about Polls and Brexit, which hasnt really changed since polling started in the real scheme of things. 

Edited September 28, 20187 yr by iroc4life

I would be happy for a no deal, then flood that damn tunnel. Britain once paid a heavy price for Europe's freedom, now they want us to pay a heavy price for our freedom, the treacherous scabs, we survived, we'll survive again.

I personally did not  have a vote as live in Thailand  

but as a outsider can see that the British people who voted for out are not getting everything they voted for 

What I see is a loss of jobs as companies will not invest plus London will take a hit on Banks investment firms slimming down or moving out  ect 

waiting to see how the Japanese will respond once Brexit is implemented if there is problems with spares affecting the manufacture of their cars up in Sunderland and other factories

would love to be proved wrong  will see after Brexit takes place ?

 

 

20 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

There was a Populus opinion poll on June 21/22 2016 a day or 2 before the real one, the last big opinion poll.

 

The result was: Leave 48%; Remain 52%

 

The problem with the pre-Referendum polls was that the pollsters applied the same parameters as for a general election, and excluded the opinions of those who said they didn't normally vote. In reality a vast number of these 'dormant voters' (2.8 million according to the Sun, although this seems rather high) turned out to vote at the Referendum, and overwhelmingly supported Leave. This technical flaw would of course not affect the current figures, which should therefore be far more reliable.

 

It is almost certain that should the UK leave the EU in March next year, it will be against the wishes of the majority of the prevailing electorate.

21 hours ago, jesimps said:

Those who could be arsed to vote chose Brexit under the democratic rules. Just get on with it.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

The problem with the pre-Referendum polls was that the pollsters applied the same parameters as for a general election, and excluded the opinions of those who said they didn't normally vote. In reality a vast number of these 'dormant voters' (2.8 million according to the Sun, although this seems rather high) turned out to vote at the Referendum, and overwhelmingly supported Leave. This technical flaw would of course not affect the current figures, which should therefore be far more reliable.

 

It is almost certain that should the UK leave the EU in March next year, it will be against the wishes of the majority of the prevailing electorate.

 

The problem with the inaccuracy of the polls is most likely due to the fact that at the time they were unaware of Cambridge Analytica using military trained psychological warfare specialists to target people who don't normally vote and so they could not take that into consideration.

28 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

The problem with the pre-Referendum polls was that the pollsters applied the same parameters as for a general election, and excluded the opinions of those who said they didn't normally vote. In reality a vast number of these 'dormant voters' (2.8 million according to the Sun, although this seems rather high) turned out to vote at the Referendum, and overwhelmingly supported Leave. This technical flaw would of course not affect the current figures, which should therefore be far more reliable.

 

It is almost certain that should the UK leave the EU in March next year, it will be against the wishes of the majority of the prevailing electorate.

Yes, I was only pointing out the vagaries of opinion polls vis-a-vis the real thing.

 

In the June 23 referendum the result of one of the biggest/main opinion polls (Populus), the previous day, was turned on it's head, and was within the +/- "margin of error".

35 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

It is almost certain that should the UK leave the EU in March next year, it will be against the wishes of the majority of the prevailing electorate.

If true, and it's a big "if", once the 2016 referendum has been implemented as promised, and the UK has left the EU, the "wishes of the majority" will be within their rights to call for another referendum, to rejoin. What is complicated about that?

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, rixalex said:

If true, and it's a big "if", once the 2016 referendum has been implemented as promised, and the UK has left the EU, the "wishes of the majority" will be within their rights to call for another referendum, to rejoin. What is complicated about that?

 

 

 

Britain joined the EEC without a vote. I think the understanding in the 1975 vote to remain was that it wouldn't ever be the EU, which it eventually became without a vote anyway.

 

There was a vote promised by Blair on Lisbon also, that never materialised (another one of his lies).

 

The point being that treaties like Lisbon & Maastricht HAVE to be ratified by  ALL member states anyway, regardless of referenda.

2 hours ago, shackleton said:

I personally did not  have a vote as live in Thailand  

but as a outsider can see that the British people who voted for out are not getting everything they voted for 

What I see is a loss of jobs as companies will not invest plus London will take a hit on Banks investment firms slimming down or moving out  ect 

waiting to see how the Japanese will respond once Brexit is implemented if there is problems with spares affecting the manufacture of their cars up in Sunderland and other factories

would love to be proved wrong  will see after Brexit takes place ?

Here is a good talk by Adam Posen, American economist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Posen

 

He talks mostly about Brexit's economical aspects. He also talks about the possibilities, counter arguments and generally offers a larger view why Brexit happened and what happens next. 

 

Worth to watch. There are arguments from both sides. And warnings for those who are sensitive. He is not always talking in the most rosy and politically corrected way.

 

 

Edited September 29, 20187 yr by Guest

23 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

It’s not too late. 

 

Britain is still in the eu. 

Not for much longer.

3 minutes ago, Mychoicetobehere said:

Not for much longer.

Nonetheless...

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

If true, and it's a big "if", once the 2016 referendum has been implemented as promised, and the UK has left the EU, the "wishes of the majority" will be within their rights to call for another referendum, to rejoin. What is complicated about that?

 

 

 

 

I see his point. What's the point of doing something that is just going to be reversed.  Especially, something so important.

 

But actually, we would be going back in on worse terms. For a start, we would have to join the Euro.

Edited September 29, 20187 yr by mommysboy

15 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

I see his point. What's the point of doing something that is just going to be reversed.  Especially, something so important.

 

But actually, we would be going back in on worse terms. For a start, we would have to join the Euro.

...there's speculation that all EU countries will have to join the Euro by 2025.

24 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

I see his point. What's the point of doing something that is just going to be reversed.  Especially, something so important.

 

But actually, we would be going back in on worse terms. For a start, we would have to join the Euro.

 

Looking at most projections, coming years are expected to be the Golden Age of the Euro, now would be the time to join.

12 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

...there's speculation that all EU countries will have to join the Euro by 2025.

 

They already have a treaty, the fact that some EU group may have discussed getting all EU members to adopt the Euro by 2025 does not change their current treaty, the EU would need a unanimous decision to supersede their standing agreement so every state has the ability to opt out of any new legislation by way of veto.

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

They already have a treaty, the fact that some EU group may have discussed getting all EU members to adopt the Euro by 2025 does not change their current treaty, the EU would need a unanimous decision to supersede their standing agreement so every state has the ability to opt out of any new legislation by way of veto.

To unify budgets etc, which Macron says he wants to do. The final step towards a super-state would probably need another treaty to be imposed, ie without a pesky referendum, cos everyone has to ratify it regardless.

14 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

To unify budgets etc, which Macron says he wants to do. The final step towards a super-state would probably need another treaty to be imposed, ie without a pesky referendum, cos everyone has to ratify it regardless.

 

Treaties are not imposed.

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Treaties are not imposed.

Yes, but in the EU everyone HAS to "ratify" them. Any referenda/public opinion are ignored/pointless.

53 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

...there's speculation that all EU countries will have to join the Euro by 2025.

 

If I was into simplistic slogans, I would call that "Project Fear". But I'm not, so I won't.

4 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Yes, but in the EU everyone HAS to "ratify" them. Any referenda/public opinion are ignored/pointless.

 

EU law can also have protocols attached making it legal for a state to opt out of part of a law, this is how the UK and Ireland avoided signing the Schengen Agreement, how the UK and Denmark avoided changing to the Euro, how Denmark avoids being a member of the Western European Union, and how the UK avoided having open borders until Tony Blair decided to remove our opt out protocol and fully agree to the EU law on movement of EU citizens.

4 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

If I was into simplistic slogans, I would call that "Project Fear". But I'm not, so I won't.

The European Commission aims to make adopting the euro more attractive to European Union members currently outside the currency bloc, Pierre Moscovici said yesterday (23 May), in a bid to make the Union more tight-knit after Britain’s vote to leave.

The proposals will be unveiled next week in a blueprint on the future of the eurozone, which is part of a wider plan launched by the executive on how to revamp the EU after Brexit and amid a surge in eurosceptic sentiment.

“We will try to make a framework that is attractive enough, that is like, as they say in the movies, an offer you cannot refuse,” the Commissioner for Economic Affairs told reporters seeking details on his proposals for “completing the Economic and Monetary Union by 2025”.

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Good but depressing to see the things us Brits will be losing if we actually do leave. Not sure why you needed to repeat the "national anthem" twice, especially as it's not national it's the European anthem. A great tune too!

For factual purposes, the President/Commission are elected/appointed by the parliament which consists of MEPs elected by the people.



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...so they're "elected" in much the same way as the House of Lords is? Un-elected in the conventional sense.

5 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

If I was into simplistic slogans, I would call that "Project Fear". But I'm not, so I won't.

 

The aim is clear, they want all members to be fully within the same economic community, this "leak" was just a group who discussed proposing a time frame to work to.

14 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Yes, but in the EU everyone HAS to "ratify" them. Any referenda/public opinion are ignored/pointless.

 

Hardly. The European Constitution was scuppered by negative referendum votes in France and the Netherlands.