One year Visa Renewal

[KevinboyCM]

So two questions: First, can you apply one month before the expiration date of your visa? And second, there is a rumor going around that the Thai government is no longer allowing Americans to use the letter from the Consulate attesting to their monthly income. Anyone know the answers to either? Thanks

[ubonjoe]

I assume you mean an extension of stay not a visa. 

You can apply for the new extension up to 30 day early or 45 days at some offices.

There have been reports Chiang Mai immigration is asking for back proof for income affidavits. They still accept the affidavits. No reports on other offices doing it.

[KevinboyCM]

So someone could have $100k in the bank but not be able to show monthly income of $2500 and with a month to go before their visa expires they would not be able to renew.  Makes perfect sense to me.  

 

And if they are asking for verification or proof <deleted> would you then need to spend 1500 baht for a letter?  

 

Also, does anyone know if they are checking everyone or just some? In other words is back checking policy now or is it arbitrary? Thanks

Edited September 28, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

So someone could have $100k in the bank but not be able to show monthly income of $2500 and with a month to go before their visa expires they would not be able to renew.  Makes perfect sense to me.

I did not say that.

They would have prove the income in some way. The best proof is a bank account showing  transfers going into a bank account. Just putting some money in the bank would not be enough.

[KevinboyCM]

Your answer is confusing. Let me ask it this way.  Let's say my visa expires on Nov 1.  I used to have 800K in the bank but it is now only 100K.  I do not have $2500 a month in income but I may have $100K or $1 million in my bank (not in Thailand).  So it is too late to transfer the 800K.  Although I may be a millionaire I'm gonna lose my ability to renew for one year right?

[overherebc]

Using the combination of savings and income to make the 800,000 with 100,000 baht in the bank you would need somewhere around 1850 dollars a month income to get the extension.

If you wanted a one year visa you would have to get one outside of Thailand.

[KevinboyCM]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

Using the combination of savings and income to make the 800,000 with 100,000 baht in the bank you would need somewhere around 1850 dollars a month income to get the extension.

If you wanted a one year visa you would have to get one outside of Thailand.

I understand that. Your answer did not address my question. I only have a month to go before my visa expires-too late to transfer the 800K and I only get my $1200/mo in pension but I may have $100-$1000000 in a US bank, more than enough to justify staying yet according to the new rules it seems I will not be able to renew.

[ubonjoe]

You could start transferring some money into a Thai bank that is equal to what you put put on the income affidavit.

Not sure why you are using the $2500 or 100k baht numbers. A income of 65k baht is needed to apply for an extension based upon retirement.

At todays exchange rate $2,050 is a little more than 65k baht.

[KevinboyCM]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

You could start transferring some money into a Thai bank that is equal to what you put put on the income affidavit.

Not sure why you are using the $2500 or 100k baht numbers. A income of 65k baht is needed to apply for an extension based upon retirement.

At todays exchange rate $2,050 is a little more than 65k baht.

I know that as well. But you need to show that the money was being transfered 3 months (or is it 2) months in advance. Too late for me.

[overherebc]

1200 is around 37500 baht a month. multiply that by 12 and see whats short of 800,000 baht.

To my knowledge there is nothing to say the savings must be seasoned 2 or 3 months when using the combination method. Ask your Imm' office.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

I know that as well. But you need to show that the money was being transfered 3 months (or is it 2) months in advance. Too late for me.

There is nothing in the rules saying how long the money has to be going into the bank. Two month would be good for a start.

You could move some money in now and again in couple of weeks. And then just before you apply for the extension. 

You could apply for the extension a few days before your current one expires.

[KevinboyCM]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

There is nothing in the rules saying how long the money has to be going into the bank. Two month would be good for a start.

You could move some money in now and again in couple of weeks. And then just before you apply for the extension. 

You could apply for the extension a few days before your current one expires.

I believe you are incorrect. It is either 2 months or 3 months prior to the expiration date of your visa. Even if I started today it only leaves me about one month.  

 

I wonder if I could say that I am spending about $1000/mo from my original 800K I had in my Thai bank acct plus my $1200/mo in pension which would do it.  

 

In the event they do not renew my visa what advice to get a one year would anyone have for me? thanks or at least 3 mos or 6 mos. I have not paid any attention to how to do it.

[KevinboyCM]

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

1200 is around 37500 baht a month. multiply that by 12 and see whats short of 800,000 baht.

To my knowledge there is nothing to say the savings must be seasoned 2 or 3 months when using the combination method. Ask your Imm' office.

That will not work. You must have the whole amt seasoned either 2 or 3 months prior to the x date of visa. 

[Jingthing]

It sounds like you're asking if money seasoning rules are applied to COMBINATION applications (as they always are to full 800K bank applications). Well, that's a can of worms because under the national written rules they shouldn't be but in real life, they generally ARE. 

Showing cash outside Thailand is as you presumed irrelevant.

So to do this legally, yes, you would need to start all over. 

So your question would then be, how to start all over.

Tons of existing threads on that. 

 

Another option might be using so called visa agents. I don't know how that works in CM but in Pattaya it's not exactly breaking news that many people pay such agents to get extension applications approved that don't really meet the rules. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

I believe you are incorrect. It is either 2 months or 3 months prior to the expiration date of your visa.

That is only for the money to be in the bank.

Here is what the police order states.

[SkyNets]

The op knows a lot, but not to much about planning lol

[KevinboyCM]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only for the money to be in the bank.

Here is what the police order states.

Well, if you read it yourself it clearly states "deposit funds" must be maintained for a minimum of 60 days or 2 months which was one question I asked so that clears that up.  So again then one could have $1 million in a bank somewhere and not be able to renew their visa for one year because they only take the money as needed. Beyond stupid if you ask me.  

[KevinboyCM]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It sounds like you're asking if money seasoning rules are applied to COMBINATION applications (as they always are to full 800K bank applications). Well, that's a can of worms because under the national written rules they shouldn't be but in real life, they generally ARE. 

Showing cash outside Thailand is as you presumed irrelevant.

So to do this legally, yes, you would need to start all over. 

So your question would then be, how to start all over.

Tons of existing threads on that. 

 

Another option might be using so called visa agents. I don't know how that works in CM but in Pattaya it's not exactly breaking news that many people pay such agents to get extension applications approved that don't really meet the rules. 

haha surely you jest. Unfortunately there is no corruption in Chiang Mai, or is there?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, KevinboyCM said:

Well, if you read it yourself it clearly states "deposit funds" must be maintained for a minimum of 60 days or 2 months which was one question I asked so that clears that up.  So again then one could have $1 million in a bank somewhere and not be able to renew their visa for one year because they only take the money as needed. Beyond stupid if you ask me.  

Not sure what you're on about harping about banked funds that are NOT in Thailand. Get your mind away from that. It will never help you one bit for any kind of bank account application IN Thailand (full 800K or combination).

That said, you can go back to your home country and get an O-A visa showing the required banked funds there. But that's under the topic -- STARTING OVER. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, KevinboyCM said:

haha surely you jest. Unfortunately there is no corruption in Chiang Mai, or is there?

I don't know. Probably not a topic very openly discussed here on the forum but it does reflect real life in other areas for certain. 

[KevinboyCM]

2 minutes ago, SkyNets said:

The op knows a lot, but not to much about planning lol

Yeah well I agree. Gee I wonder how many guys lie about making 65K baht on their consular letter?  In my case I have between $100K and $1000000 in the bank so one would think it would be enough to get a renewal. I did not want to transfer another 800K because the rate is so low now. Get it? This proof of income thing is new. 

[KevinboyCM]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure what you're on about harping about banked funds that are NOT in Thailand. Get your mind away from that. It will never help you one bit for any kind of bank account application IN Thailand (full 800K or combination).

That said, you can go back to your home country and get an O-A visa showing the required banked funds there. But that's under the topic -- STARTING OVER. 

got it, thanks. And I wasn't harping but a lot of misinformation here posted so far. 

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It sounds like you're asking if money seasoning rules are applied to COMBINATION applications (as they always are to full 800K bank applications). Well, that's a can of worms because under the national written rules they shouldn't be but in real life, they generally ARE. 

Showing cash outside Thailand is as you presumed irrelevant.

So to do this legally, yes, you would need to start all over. 

So your question would then be, how to start all over.

Tons of existing threads on that. 

 

Another option might be using so called visa agents. I don't know how that works in CM but in Pattaya it's not exactly breaking news that many people pay such agents to get extension applications approved that don't really meet the rules. 

 

I can imagine that different Imm' offices probably read it different ways and that wouldn't be a first. ????

That's why I said the OP should ask his local office.

[KevinboyCM]

7 minutes ago, SkyNets said:

The op knows a lot, but not to much about planning lol

I'm not "to" good at spelling either. lol

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

 

I can imagine that different Imm' offices probably read it different ways and that wouldn't be a first. ????

That's why I said the OP should ask his local office.

Yes, sure.

What office is he using? He can probably get his answer right here if it's a major office. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[KevinboyCM]

56 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, sure.

What office is he using? He can probably get his answer right here if it's a major office. 

Chiang Mai

[Jingthing]

Chiang Mai

Should be easy to find out their seasoning rule for combo applications. But I don't know. My impression has been most offices are enforcing seasoning on such applications.

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[JackThompson]

There is no rule about how long the paper-trail for the income proof needs to exist, because the rules do not state that you need to prove anything beyond an embassy-letter.  Some offices are adding their own special-rule here (not uncommon), so they dictate terms on their rule. 

 

18 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

I did not want to transfer another 800K because the rate is so low now. Get it? This proof of income thing is new. 

 

Proving the income might also allow for showing ATM-withdrawal receipts from your non-Thai bank-account.  But the local office can make up anything on their made-up rule, so it would be up to what they feel like accepting.

 

Even in cases of well-defined rules, local-offices (and entry-checkpoints) often ignore or change the "real rules" to what they "feel" the rules "really should" be.  With this office-specific rule, there are no published guidelines to start with.

 

18 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

one could have $1 million in a bank somewhere and not be able to renew their visa for one year because they only take the money as needed. Beyond stupid if you ask me.  

It's not about doing the "smart", or "logical", or "fair", or "best for the country" thing, unfortunately.  Once one realizes what they are really dealing with at some Immigration offices (CM at the top of the list), the runarounds they invent all make sense.

 

18 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

haha surely you jest. Unfortunately there is no corruption in Chiang Mai, or is there?

 

The purpose of "new" office-specific, undocumented-rules, is to force applicants to agents, so that those who have allowed the "no money extensions via agent" system to be ongoing for years, can get their reward.  They even turn a blind-eye to public advertisement of this system.

 

To give you an idea of how serious the CM office, in particular, is about getting their agent-money cut.  We now have reports that they are refusing 90-day reports from those who correctly submit change-of-address forms when moving to the CM area.  Even those who apply without agents in other areas are not allowed to do 90-day reporting after they legally move to CM. 

 

So, if an agent offers you a retirement-extension package through another office (whose IOs are cheaper to pay-off), keep this pitfall in mind - the agent would need to submit fraudulent 90-day reports - reporting an address where the foreigner is not living in the other office's territory - for the full year.

 

18 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

In the event they do not renew my visa what advice to get a one year would anyone have for me? thanks or at least 3 mos or 6 mos. I have not paid any attention to how to do it.

 

As someone else pointed out, you can only use bank-funds outside Thailand when applying for a Visa at a consulate outside Thailand.  If you were to go to Savannakhet for a Single-Entry Non-O Visa based on retirement (the best nearby choice, IMO), you could supply an embassy-letter (to prove you are retired, doesn't have to be a lot of income), plus a bank-statement from your Foreign Bank showing 800K Baht worth of funds in any convertible currency.

 

In the last 30-days of the 90-days permitted-stay from entering on that Visa, you could apply for a 1-year extension-of-stay in Chang Mai with 2-months seasoning on the money in-the-bank (in a Thai bank), and 3-months thereafter. 

 

The only way to stay long-term without putting funds in a Thai bank, would be to go to your home-country and go through the "Non-OA" 1-year Multiple-Entry Visa process.  But, unless you are a savy investor, the costs of medical, police-check, and a unnecessary-trip likely out-strip the ROI-losses of 800K Baht in a Thai Bank for the 3 months necessary.  You also avoid the trouble and expense of an embassy letter by not using income.

Edited September 29, 2018 by JackThompson

[KevinboyCM]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

There is no rule about how long the paper-trail for the income proof needs to exist, because the rules do not state that you need to prove anything beyond an embassy-letter.  Some offices are adding their own special-rule here (not uncommon), so they dictate terms on their rule. 

 

 

Proving the income might also allow for showing ATM-withdrawal receipts from your non-Thai bank-account.  But the local office can make up anything on their made-up rule, so it would be up to what they feel like accepting.

 

Even in cases of well-defined rules, local-offices (and entry-checkpoints) often ignore or change the "real rules" to what they "feel" the rules "really should" be.  With this office-specific rule, there are no published guidelines to start with.

 

It's not about doing the "smart", or "logical", or "fair", or "best for the country" thing, unfortunately.  Once one realizes what they are really dealing with at some Immigration offices (CM at the top of the list), the runarounds they invent all make sense.

 

 

The purpose of "new" office-specific, undocumented-rules, is to force applicants to agents, so that those who have allowed the "no money extensions via agent" system to be ongoing for years, can get their reward.  They even turn a blind-eye to public advertisement of this system.

 

To give you an idea of how serious the CM office, in particular, is about getting their agent-money cut.  We now have reports that they are refusing 90-day reports from those who correctly submit change-of-address forms when moving to the CM area.  Even those who apply without agents in other areas are not allowed to do 90-day reporting after they legally move to CM. 

 

So, if an agent offers you a retirement-extension package through another office (whose IOs are cheaper to pay-off), keep this pitfall in mind - the agent would need to submit fraudulent 90-day reports - reporting an address where the foreigner is not living in the other office's territory - for the full year.

 

 

As someone else pointed out, you can only use bank-funds outside Thailand when applying for a Visa at a consulate outside Thailand.  If you were to go to Savannakhet for a Single-Entry Non-O Visa based on retirement (the best nearby choice, IMO), you could supply an embassy-letter (to prove you are retired, doesn't have to be a lot of income), plus a bank-statement from your Foreign Bank showing 800K Baht worth of funds in any convertible currency.

 

In the last 30-days of the 90-days permitted-stay from entering on that Visa, you could apply for a 1-year extension-of-stay in Chang Mai with 2-months seasoning on the money in-the-bank (in a Thai bank), and 3-months thereafter. 

 

The only way to stay long-term without putting funds in a Thai bank, would be to go to your home-country and go through the "Non-OA" 1-year Multiple-Entry Visa process.  But, unless you are a savy investor, the costs of medical, police-check, and a unnecessary-trip likely out-strip the ROI-losses of 800K Baht in a Thai Bank for the 3 months necessary.  You also avoid the trouble and expense of an embassy letter by not using income.

I have had a "retirement" visa for ten years now. So if I showed them those expired visas, do you think I still need to get a letter from the Consulate to prove I am retired? 

 

This letter you are referring to is different than the proof of income letter, correct?  What a mess. Let me try this one more time.

 

My visa expires on Nov 19. I only have about 100000 baht in the Thai bank. I get about 40000 baht a month from my pension so am about 25000 baht short. But still too late to either put in 800k  or show 2 months of seasoning.  I have well over the 800k needed but in a US bank.  So let me ask this. When I needed money I would use my thai bank atm. And I would probably use over 25000 baht a month from that acct. Does anyone think that would suffice?  Thanks

[JackThompson]

39 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

I have had a "retirement" visa for ten years now. So if I showed them those expired visas, do you think I still need to get a letter from the Consulate to prove I am retired? 

 

I have not heard of past retirement-based extensions or Non-O based-on-retirement Visas being accepted.  I am guessing you mean 10-years of getting annual extensions from immigration, rather than Visas from consulates (this affects seasoning, below).

 

Quote

This letter you are referring to is different than the proof of income letter, correct? 

 

No.  Applicants have used the "proof of income" letter as "proof of retirement."  Maybe another type of letter will also work, but this is the one I have seen referenced repeatedly in this forum, for this purpose, as being accepted there.

 

When applying at Savannakhet, the applicant needs to show a bank-statement (can be a foreign-bank's statement) and embassy income-letter - even if your financials are met entirely by one or the other.

 

Quote

What a mess. Let me try this one more time. 

 

My visa expires on Nov 19. I only have about 100000 baht in the Thai bank. I get about 40000 baht a month from my pension so am about 25000 baht short. But still too late to either put in 800k  or show 2 months of seasoning. 

 

If this is an extension tacked onto a previous extension from immigration (versus an entry from a Non-O Visa or Non-OA Visa from a consulate), then you need 3 months seasoning - not two.  The two months seasoning is only if it is your first "extension based on retirement" since beginning the process - starting with a Non-O stamp ("conversion" - not extension) or Non-O Visa entry.

 

Quote

I have well over the 800k needed but in a US bank. 

 

This makes no difference when doing an extension in Thailand.  I'm not saying it should make no difference - only that it won't.  If the money isn't in Thailand it won't help you at immigration-offices in Thailand.

 

Quote

So let me ask this. When I needed money I would use my thai bank atm. And I would probably use over 25000 baht a month from that acct. Does anyone think that would suffice?  Thanks

 

Maybe.  The office who is asking for proof (I suspect for reasons not on the "up and up") is defining what qualifies, so they are the only ones who can say for sure.  If it were me, I would start just supplying the published requirements.  If they ask for proof of the income (assuming your income-letter affidavit shows enough to qualify with the 100K Baht - perhaps using income from investments, not only pension), try showing a pattern of withdrawals matching the min-income and see if it works.

Edited September 29, 2018 by JackThompson