Can i protect my dog from other dogs?

[davidst01]

unwise to put a photo of yourself. thai tabloid media love these BS stories. 

 

take a bamboo stick on every walk. problem solved

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

All puppies are naturally submissive but some dogs remain submissive for life.  It is in their line of breeding.  Do a Teddy Roosevelt.  "Talk softly but carry a big (walking) stick."  Dogs are territorial, particularly feral dogs.  Scan ahead and avoid places with loose local dogs.  They will usually see your dog as an intruder and a competitor to their food supply.

 

Agree as I posted before the breeding is important and Thai dogs let to roam about probable inbreeding happens which is not good.

[Mace648]

21 hours ago, Arjen said:

The official rule in Thailand is when a dog attacks on public ground the dog is wrong, usualy will be killed, and the owner (if found) is responsible for caused damage.

 

On the other hand, when a dog attacks on private ground, even when the owner allowed you to enter, the dog is never wrong, and the owner can not be forced to pay compensation (although most owners will do) 

 

When your dog is walking on public road, and is hitted by a car, the dog owner is responsible for damage to the car. When the car should drive on your private property, the car owner is responsible for damage to the dog.

 

This is the official rule. As usual, there are many ways to solve this in Thailand.

 

As stated above. To prevent this in future, let your dog of the lease, and take a few steps back. Usually the initial fight stops. Mostly dogs see people running around when they fight as an encouragement to continue. And usual, when a fight has ended there will be no future fights. When you separate the dogs, or stop them fighting on any way, there will be always problems when you meet the same dog again.

 

It are mostly the owners who start the fight. (without knowing, but by not reading the language a dog sends out when meeting an other dog, most owners support their dog, or the opponent dog to start the fight.)

 

The best thing to do, let your dog off the leash, and walk 10 meters away. Usually the fight stops in seconds. When not, there is a serious problem, to stop that kind of fights you must be a kind of "Superman" I am speaking from experience, I am not a "Superman" and have been several times serious injured by fighting dogs.....

 

Arjen.

I don't know where you got this information about dogs but it is absolutely false.  It is not true that most dogfights stop quickly since they continue until one dog is dead or one runs away, plus It doesn't take more than a few seconds for a dog to be killed or seriously wounded in a fight. My dog is very much an alpha dog and as a result, I always keep him on a leash when I go out to ensure the safety of other dogs but twice we have had dogs come to attack him,,,, one dog was killed and the other was eviscerated and both of those fights lasted less than 4 seconds until I could pull him off.

[TravelerEastWest]

Your dog photos are great thanks for posting.

 

He looks different when in the water - I thought he was a long haired GSD but in the bottom photo, he looks like a normal short haired GSD.

[Chris747]

2 hours ago, Mace648 said:

I don't know where you got this information about dogs but it is absolutely false.  It is not true that most dogfights stop quickly since they continue until one dog is dead or one runs away, plus It doesn't take more than a few seconds for a dog to be killed or seriously wounded in a fight. My dog is very much an alpha dog and as a result, I always keep him on a leash when I go out to ensure the safety of other dogs but twice we have had dogs come to attack him,,,, one dog was killed and the other was eviscerated and both of those fights lasted less than 4 seconds until I could pull him off.

 

Alpha behaviorism and agression towards other dogs has clearly nothing to do with each other. A real alpha (and i don't add -dog on purpose because it's doubted that there's something like a pack-order within a domesticated dog-pack and that also includes you as the owner) shows his "status" merely in his bodylanguage and uses agression as last resort. Think of a silverback gorilla which is not just killing his beta's should they really challenge him. 

 

If such thing as pack-order exists, why shoud other Dogs or Soi Dogs challenge your dog? They are not part of your pack. 

 

You can also apply the concept of Alpha to humans - I don't consider an aggressive Person as being Alpha. But a true leader and Alpha is that guy that first of all cares for the people around him because he has to ensure the survival of his pack.

[DJ54]

We have 10 dogs 9 cows. The picture is the smallest we spoil her

she’s treated very well. She’s quiet and sweet fun to have around. 

 

When she goes outside she is afraid of no dog! No matter the size. 

 

We we live in the countryside a few minutes drive to the village. 

 

When they other dogs take off chasing something the little one

is right there with them. Most the time 4-5 of the dogs are at 

the house and others at the farm. 

 

She’s 8 months old and has 3 large and 1 medium size dogs younger than her. When the 5 were puppies she’d play with 

them but once in awhile she’d kick their butts. 

 

Those 5 don’t mess with her though their much bigger. She set the rules. 

 

 

 

 

 

[DJ54]

It can be hard to figure out why another dog suddenly attacks your dog. A dog’s body language can be subtle, and signals from both dogs can be missed by the person holding the leash. However, whatever it was that caused the hostile reaction doesn’t really matter when two dogs are locked in battle, with you on the other end of your dog’s leash. Of course, it’s best to avoid a fight all together, but that’s not always possible and breaking up dog fights can be dangerous for dogs and people.

Dog attacks while walking your dog are not uncommon, and you have to be prepared for possible encounters. What you should do depends on who you talk to. Some dog experts recommend carrying a heavy duty walking stick to use on an attacking dog. Other experts say to drop your dog’s leash and stay out of the way. For me, neither one is a good option. It’s my job to protect my dog, and I also don’t want to hurt another dog.

My dogs look to me as their leader, and it’s my responsibility to protect them. Dogs can come out of the blue to attack your dog and you don’t always have an opportunity to read his body language. If you do encounter a dog that is off leash while you’re out walking alone or with your dog, stay calm and keep a close eye on the dog. Be aware of what’s going on, and expect the unexpected.

Having a sturdy walking stick does have a purpose. It’s something you could use to get in between two fighting dogs. If you have a chance to prepare before the dog attacks, when he starts moving toward you, yell “No” and take a step towards him. Try to read his level of aggression by looking at his eyes (intense and focused) without staring at him, ears (laid back on his head), hair standing up on the back of his neck or along the rump and movements that are stiff. If you can get him to back off, move away slowly, but don’t turn your back on him. Try to keep your dog as calm as you can. Any show of aggression from him can prompt an attack from the other dog.

You can carry a backpack with some clothing or a small blanket inside – anything to give it bulk to use to push the other dog away, or to put in between the dogs to give you some protection from snapping teeth. Carrying one or two cans of pepper spray or bear spray is always good. Don’t be afraid to use as much as needed and spray directly into the dog’s nose and eyes. Be mindful of the wind so you don’t spray yourself. If you have to use the spray on your dog as well, don’t hesitate to do so. A bright flashlight can be directed into the eyes of an attacking dog to temporarily blind him. Another useful thing to carry is an air horn. The loud noise could persuade the dog not to attack in the first place. If he does attack, the horn might help break up either dog’s focus during a fight, and will help call attention to other people in the area to come help.

Your best defense against another dog attacking your dog is to be alert and try to prevent an attack from happening. If that’s not possible or it happens before you’re aware there’s even another dog around, try to stay calm. A mind that’s in panic mode doesn’t function well. Think about what you would do before you have an encounter. Carry a stout walking stick and anything that might be helpful in a convenient pocket where you can quickly grab what you need.

Understanding dog behavior is one of your best weapons if another dog attacks your dog. I recently wrote on article on understanding dog fights that might help you. There are no simple answers though. The best thing to do is to stay alert and calm, and think about what to do before you encounter an attack.

Read more articles by Linda Cole

[jak2002003]

Some very interesting posts on this thread.

 

The man in Chiang Mai wrestling several large attacking street dogs down in a field...… seems almost unbelievable.

 

People saying to stare aggressive dogs in the eyes till they back down... people advocating training your dogs to fight in defense, have alpha dogs that go about killing other dogs (like its a good thing). Posters stating as fact that most dogs fights end quickly, advising to use illegal pepper spray on dogs (which could end badly for the owner).

 

Confusion about Alpha dogs / dominant and submissive dogs.  

 

Saying the street dogs are 'inbred' (when theses dogs have a lot of mates to choose from)... when they have a pedigree dog (the very worst of inbreeding for many generations)!!! Fact is most street dogs are more socialised with other dogs that pampered pet ones, and know how to follow the rules to avoid a fight... they have needed to since being a puppy or they would be dead by the time they grew up.  

 

Even the OP himself saying he has NEVER socialised his dog with any other dogs.... this is totally bad dog ownership and setting himself up for the situation he found himself in.  Dogs are not humans... they don't think like humans.

 

All dogs must be socialised with other dogs from as soon as you get them home.  It is too late once they reach several months old,.. and the dog will never be relaxed with other dogs, or know the social and behavioural rules to avoid getting attacked, or turning into an aggressive dog themselves.

 

OP, you dog is still young.  Find some people with pet dogs for it to hang out with ASAP, or you are setting the dog up with behavioural problems for the rest of its life.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob12345]

Previously I mentioned that I would not recommend letting your dog off leash and fight it out for himself.

 

Let me add the main reasons for that advice.

It will only turn out well if the following points are covered:

1. both your dog and the other dog come from a reputable breeder meaning no inbreeding and the parents have normal to low agression levels.

2. both your dog and the other dog have been socialized at a young age and know how to act around other dogs

3. both your dog and the other dog are mentally stable; no history of abuse and have been properly cared for in the past

4. the "meeting" takes place on neutral grounds, neither dog is defending its own territory

5. both dogs are off leash so they can act and react with freedom

 

As you can imagine this is not the case in meeting a soi dog:

1) absolutely not

2) possibly as many soi dogs live among people and other dogs

3) probably not - soi dogs are often abused and rarely taken care of

4) no, it probably takes place on the soi dog's territory which it will want to defend

5) only possible if you remove the leash from your dog, which is risky with traffic

[wildewillie89]

I cannot agree with letting the dog off the leash. He is older than 1 now so his make up has pretty much been set for the rest of his life. By the sounds of it if he is let off leash during a conflict he will either cower or run. If he runs then he is just running into traffic or their is the small risk of the dog running after a fight and never returning (as happened with one cousin's dog here). A Thai street dog attacking him isn't going to kill him (instantly at least), a car certainly is. 

Very simple solution, use a stick on your walks, just tap it around you as you walk. It will keep 99.9% of dogs away. Just remember to tap it behind you when your back is turned as that is when many dogs like to strike (either the dogs ankles or yours) due to being so scared. 

Keep calm, continue walking. With early routines (a bit late for your dog). bigger dogs should be able to get to the point where they can completely ignore, or even take the odd small bite that doesn't break the skin from Thai street dogs and continue walking as if their isn't even any other dogs there.

Letting dogs fight out in your home is a completely different matter from letting them fight it out on the streets. Dog bites can transmit diseases that you know your own dogs are pretty safe and healthy from. 

*Edit: It is one of those things, it hasn't happened to me so I am fine to continue doing it (Thai thinking if you like). Numerous dogs in our area have been killed swiftly by other dogs due to them all being allowed to roam off leash (big vs small - not the OP case). Simply walk your dog on a leash with a bamboo stick or pvc piping and their is nothing to worry about. People shouldn't have to put up with other people's dogs being off leash (Thai dogs are enough). If don't have the private land or the appropriate public areas to exercise/socialise dogs (off leash) then don't have a dog. 

If need be, do what you can to protect your dog and yourself. I would have zero problems with kicking a dog into the lake we walk around if it comes running bearing its teeth. A swim back to land is a lot safer than letting my dogs deal with it if I had no stick (would teach the owner a lesson to leash their dog). When I first moved here I had to throw a dog from one nature strip to the nature strip opposite as it had latched on to the in-laws dog. No one has any real problems with it if it the aggressor dog. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by wildewillie89

[Kwasaki]

On 9/29/2018 at 1:29 PM, Arjen said:

When the car should drive on your private property, the car owner is responsible for damage to the dog.

So what about if someones dog finds it's way onto my private land and it's killed by my truck, I have to find out who owns the dog so I can pay them. whoops.

[The Deerhunter]

On 9/30/2018 at 10:59 AM, Kwasaki said:

 

Agree as I posted before the breeding is important and Thai dogs let to roam about probable inbreeding happens which is not good.

I think the puppy factory money breeders are more of a risk to inbreeding than wild soi dogs.  The only dog of ours with a genetic defect (multiple claws on hind feet) is the progeny of a brother in law's puppy factory female and a local male.  I have to say that this is pretty much a known fact in the dog owners world.

[dick dasterdly]

On 9/29/2018 at 8:28 PM, jrjrjr said:

 

This is the only thing to do, show that you are not scare by them, and they will backup.

 

 

Not always true.

 

I met one dog that was so determined to get at my dog, that he actually jumped up and bit me!  I wasn't at all afraid of him, only concerned to keep him away from my dog.  But he only bit me half-heartedly (didn't break my skin) in an attempt to 'get past' me so that he could get at my dog.

 

I was taken completely by suprise that he had dared to bite me, which is why I remained calm, but very annoyed that (in my words at the time) "he bloody bit me!"  ???? - at which point the local Thai around (presumably 'owner', and had been watching), grabbed a stick and drove the dog away.

[dick dasterdly]

On 9/30/2018 at 12:00 AM, Destiny1990 said:

The question is why are there still unleashed aggressive  dogs in Thailand roaming around without a clear owner?

 

your problem wont go away.

maybe rent house with a garden and a very high fence ur dog will love u for it.

Do you seriously think any dog will "love u for it" if it means never going for a walk (All the different smells etc.)??!

 

I feel for the OP, as I know it's v. difficult to walk dogs in many areas.

 

My solution was to be lucky enough to find a house in a relatively isolated area, next to a 'local' beach.

Edited October 1, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[wildewillie89]

Realistically, a walk should be more for mental stimulation than exercise. A fenced yard should be big enough and the dog should be spending enough time/working/playing with owners/other pets during the day to cater for its exercise needs. 

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Some very interesting posts on this thread.

 

The man in Chiang Mai wrestling several large attacking street dogs down in a field...… seems almost unbelievable.

 

People saying to stare aggressive dogs in the eyes till they back down... people advocating training your dogs to fight in defense, have alpha dogs that go about killing other dogs (like its a good thing). Posters stating as fact that most dogs fights end quickly, advising to use illegal pepper spray on dogs (which could end badly for the owner).

 

Confusion about Alpha dogs / dominant and submissive dogs.  

 

Saying the street dogs are 'inbred' (when theses dogs have a lot of mates to choose from)... when they have a pedigree dog (the very worst of inbreeding for many generations)!!! Fact is most street dogs are more socialised with other dogs that pampered pet ones, and know how to follow the rules to avoid a fight... they have needed to since being a puppy or they would be dead by the time they grew up.  

 

Even the OP himself saying he has NEVER socialised his dog with any other dogs.... this is totally bad dog ownership and setting himself up for the situation he found himself in.  Dogs are not humans... they don't think like humans.

 

All dogs must be socialised with other dogs from as soon as you get them home.  It is too late once they reach several months old,.. and the dog will never be relaxed with other dogs, or know the social and behavioural rules to avoid getting attacked, or turning into an aggressive dog themselves.

 

OP, you dog is still young.  Find some people with pet dogs for it to hang out with ASAP, or you are setting the dog up with behavioural problems for the rest of its life.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the first time in several years I have a neighbour - and he came with a 'staffy type' pup....

 

The puppy (at the time) desperately wanted to play and become friends with my dogs, but they are far older and have no interest in the young 'intruder'....☹️

 

So I agree with you to a large extent as my older dogs are teaching the younger dog some 'manners'.

 

It would probably be even better if the far younger dog had a similar aged/sized playmate.

[dick dasterdly]

15 hours ago, Arjen said:

 

 

Well....

 

Sorry to hear you have such a hard time with your dog, but good he can defend himself....

I have seen many, many dogfights. The longest lasting one was around 8 minutes. We have 13 dogs, and on a regular base there are some fights. The closer we are, or the more we try to let them stop, the longer, and the more serious the fights are. 

I am always surprised that even when it looks very serious, the wounds the dog have are mostly minor, although treating wounds is our main reason for veternarian visits....

 

Arjen.

I can assure you that my much-missed whippet could not have defended himself....  Fortunately, we were very similar in not understanding the concept of 'hierarchy', and so he never had to defend himself within the 'pack' - only when other dogs disliked him immediately for some obscure 'dog' reason.

 

Having said this, I agree with the gist of your post.  When I adopted my second 'soi dog' there were many fights between them - and I separated them until things went badly wrong (long story) and I gave up as I was (for the first time) afraid of being badly bitten....  They quickly sorted it out amongst themselves - largely because (as it turned out) the original soi dog had cancer and was already sick ☹️. 

[dick dasterdly]

22 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Realistically, a walk should be more for mental stimulation than exercise. A fenced yard should be big enough and the dog should be spending enough time/working/playing with owners/other pets during the day to cater for its exercise needs. 

Perhaps idealistically rather than realistically?

[jrjrjr]

On 10/1/2018 at 1:00 PM, dick dasterdly said:

Not always true.

 

I met one dog that was so determined to get at my dog, that he actually jumped up and bit me!  I wasn't at all afraid of him, only concerned to keep him away from my dog.  But he only bit me half-heartedly (didn't break my skin) in an attempt to 'get past' me so that he could get at my dog.

 

I was taken completely by suprise that he had dared to bite me, which is why I remained calm, but very annoyed that (in my words at the time) "he bloody bit me!"  ???? - at which point the local Thai around (presumably 'owner', and had been watching), grabbed a stick and drove the dog away.

 

Yes sure, the dog was fast like spiderman and you were not able to kick him in the face before he even approached...

 

I am so sure that I won't change my opinion with such comments. Trust me, I have to kick dogs before they approach my pit to avoid that cute pit kill them...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by jrjrjr

[wildewillie89]

On 10/3/2018 at 8:54 AM, Arjen said:

I think you must be a nice person to try to safe dogs who try to attack your friendly pit. I am not so sure if I should be so good hearted.

 

But believe me, that your dog is so good in so fast and deadly defending itself is really an exception. I have seen many dogfights, and unless the dogs are special trained (no idea how they train them for this, and I do not want to know) the fights usually do not take long. and when the owners walk away even very difficult to separate dogs stop fighting usual fast. Usual, again usual, your dog is really an exception. And even with longer lasting fights (like I said, one of the longest I have seen was something around 8 minutes) the wounds are mostly not serious, the dogs make a lot of noise, bite each other, but it is really more noise and movement then serious attacks, and again, USUAL.

 

And as a sidenote, even a stick does not always help. Maybe 30 years ago I was involved in a fight against around 8 others, I had no change till someone came to my help with a friendly pitbull. My opponents said: "we are not scare for your dog" one got a baseball bat. Before he knew it, the dog got the baseball bat from his hands. The fight stopped as fast as it started. But also this is an exception. Most dogs ARE scared for a stick, and even for a raisen hand.

 

Arjen.

Fights quickly ending are very common (especially if the dogs live together and usually get along), but by no means are a set rule and one needs to understand their own dog.

Many Thai owned dogs are walking around with no eyes, no ears, wounds all around their body, massive abscesses, or are deformed in other ways due to fights. If people are quite aware of what is happening in their village they will know it is not at all uncommon for dogs to 'kill' other dogs also. Our latest was a couple of weeks ago when a Pug was killed by another dog - both allowed to roam. The other dog has since been poisoned (probably by the Pug owner). 

Sometimes the level of force used by a dog depends on the reason for the fight. Is it a dominance thing, is a bitch in heat, a working thing, a territory/possession thing (land, food, owner coming home), has the dog got dog to dog aggression in its lines, medical issues, various reasons. Dogs don't need to be necessarily trained to be killers depending on the lines they come from and the environments they have grown up in. My Caucasian for example is quite thoughtful (will even take a few small bites before making the dog submit, but not do anything else as their is no need to), whereas the Fila from 3 months of age was already growling/snapping at other dogs if we went out or were at the vet (dog aggression in his lines - rather than being trained to fight). Naturally, it would only take a few minutes for a Fila to kill most Thai owned dogs.

The stick would work on most 'Thai owned' dogs, well it works when walking my dogs. Not all breeds, but the majority. The breeds the stick would not work on are the ones that will flatten you regardless so 'generally' are fenced/leashed by even most Thai people as they pose a high risk to cause death if left to roam. I have desensitised my dogs to sticks for this very reason. Thai have dogs to watch over their land, but to get through the dog you just need a stick as that is how the dog has been trained.

No problems if people have the ability to kick, hit gently or scare other dogs away if need be to prevent a fight (the lesser evil). Have a problem with people doing it for no reason obviously. Also if people do go down that line, then check the vaccine status of the dog and get some shots if get bitten or scratched. 
 

Edited October 4, 2018 by wildewillie89

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, wildewillie89 said:

Fights quickly ending are very common (especially if the dogs live together and usually get along), but by no means are a set rule and one needs to understand their own dog.

Many Thai owned dogs are walking around with no eyes, no ears, wounds all around their body, massive abscesses, or are deformed in other ways due to fights. If people are quite aware of what is happening in their village they will know it is not at all uncommon for dogs to 'kill' other dogs also. Our latest was a couple of weeks ago when a Pug was killed by another dog - both allowed to roam. The other dog has since been poisoned (probably by the Pug owner). 

Sometimes the level of force used by a dog depends on the reason for the fight. Is it a dominance thing, is a bitch in heat, a working thing, a territory/possession thing (land, food, owner coming home), has the dog got dog to dog aggression in its lines, medical issues, various reasons. Dogs don't need to be necessarily trained to be killers depending on the lines they come from and the environments they have grown up in. My Caucasian for example is quite thoughtful (will even take a few small bites before making the dog submit, but not do anything else as their is no need to), whereas the Fila from 3 months of age was already growling/snapping at other dogs if we went out or were at the vet (dog aggression in his lines - rather than being trained to fight). Naturally, it would only take a few minutes for a Fila to kill most Thai owned dogs.

The stick would work on most 'Thai owned' dogs, well it works when walking my dogs. Not all breeds, but the majority. The breeds the stick would not work on are the ones that will flatten you regardless so 'generally' are fenced/leashed by even most Thai people as they pose a high risk to cause death if left to roam. I have desensitised my dogs to sticks for this very reason. Thai have dogs to watch over their land, but to get through the dog you just need a stick as that is how the dog has been trained.

No problems if people have the ability to kick, hit gently or scare other dogs away if need be to prevent a fight (the lesser evil). Have a problem with people doing it for no reason obviously. Also if people do go down that line, then check the vaccine status of the dog and get some shots if get bitten or scratched. 

Sorry for going a bit off-topic, but I was interested in your comment:-

 

"Sometimes the level of force used by a dog depends on the reason for the fight. <snip> owner coming home"

 

My two dogs get on very well, and I've had them both for several years - but a couple of weeks ago they had a fight when I came home ????.  Since then, I've (obviously) kept an eye on their behaviour towards each other - and have noticed that they both stiffen and tense as I'm walking towards the house with bags of shopping.  Not a problem as such, because I can calm the situation down as soon as I see the first dog 'tensing' - but I have no idea why my coming home should suddenly have become a potential reason for a fight?

[dick dasterdly]

18 minutes ago, Arjen said:

I am sure WW will get back on this. We have the same, but usual in the morning, when we get out bed, and see our dogs. They are all excited, and want to greet us all. We do not have fights then, but sure there is some noise, and some bitung "in the air" 

 

Maybe when you come home from shopping sometimes you bring some food for them? There is a short for this behavior, jealousy.

 

Mostly not a serious thing, special not when you (like you say) can control it.

 

Arjen.

But neither of my dogs are excited when I come home.

 

My whippet used to be excited (even if I'd only been gone 10 minutes ????), which encouraged the other three (at the time) to rush to say 'hello' - but nowadays there is no 'excitement' when I return at all!  Just a vague wandering over, tails wagging slowly, to say 'hello'.

 

Yes, I'm usually carrying bags that include their food - but that has always been the case.

 

I suspect it's down to dominance issues since the arrival of the neighbour's dog a few months ago.  i.e. the neighbour's dog has now grown up, and so my 'dominant' dog felt the need to start asserting her dominance against my other, smaller dog?

 

But why is the main 'flash point' when I return home?

[wildewillie89]

Owners returning home can be a fantastic way to kick off a fight. Whether it is excitement, jealousy or just a territory thing (owner being the territory). Different breeds will be famous for it. For example, my Fila will not let the Caucasian go near me when I first come home, or even if I have been outside all day for that matter. Whereas the Caucasian controls the scene regarding work, if she tells the Fila I have this threat covered then the Fila will back off. 

That is why the pack theory has been debunked, no such thing really as one sole alpha dog, it continually changes in 'dogs'. Depending on the situation a different dog will take charge. So yes, possibly the introduction of a dog close by has created friction between your two dogs as to who should be in charge.