Lets Define Westerner Once And For All

[farangsay]

Western/Easterner - quite simple, just more about where you are on the globe.

So you call aussies easterners?

Technically yes!

Third world actually , and it shows.

[sonnyJ]

Is it a white person (like pure white like white english) or what

lets discuss

just check out their nipples. If they are pink, they are "white" if they are a darkish color they are something else.

I have no nipples. So who am I?

[Robski]

Is it a white person (like pure white like white english) or what

lets discuss

just check out their nipples. If they are pink, they are "white" if they are a darkish color they are something else.

I have no nipples. So who am I?

Nikki Lauda?

[Grover]

Is it a white person (like pure white like white english) or what

lets discuss

just check out their nipples. If they are pink, they are "white" if they are a darkish color they are something else.

I have no nipples. So who am I?

in that case, you can check the color of your scrotum skin using the same criteria of assessment.

[Bruce1]

From Wikipedia:

"The term Western World or "the West" (also on rare occasions called the Occident) can have multiple meanings depending on its context (i.e. the time period and the used criteria). Even definitions of what constitutes the West today vary. In general however there is a consensus that the West includes at least Western Europe, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. [1] In other definitions, Eastern Europe, Latin America and/or Israel are often included, as their cultures are closely linked."

It all seems a bit Brit-centred to me, like referring to Australia as "Down Under" when, from the Aussie viewpoint, we're not down under at all, since which way is up, in a global sense? Or talking about the "Far East" - viewed from where? London.

Just an excuse for implied racism really, like the previous poster who claimed all things scientific and cultural came from the West - he's obviously doesn't know much history or he'd know that many parts of the world were far more advanced than Europe, which was a poverty-stricken, culturally ignorant backwater peopled by brutish peasants for most of human history. That why in 1421, when the Chinese Emperor invited representatives of the "civilised world" to Beijing for a confab, he didn't bother inviting anyone from Europe cause they were considered so backward by comparison with China. Probably still are...

[Payboy]

Is it a white person (like pure white like white english) or what

lets discuss

just check out their nipples. If they are pink, they are "white" if they are a darkish color they are something else.

I have no nipples. So who am I?

an udder disgrace

[glenbat]

I am white. I have blonde hair and blue eyes.

[ColPyat]

Just an excuse for implied racism really, like the previous poster who claimed all things scientific and cultural came from the West - he's obviously doesn't know much history or he'd know that many parts of the world were far more advanced than Europe, which was a poverty-stricken, culturally ignorant backwater peopled by brutish peasants for most of human history. That why in 1421, when the Chinese Emperor invited representatives of the "civilised world" to Beijing for a confab, he didn't bother inviting anyone from Europe cause they were considered so backward by comparison with China. Probably still are...

What a load of <deleted>.

You seem to forget the Celtic cultures, the Greek city states, Rome, etc.

China had, and still has, more than a bit of its own share of brutalities, as "the west" has.

[ColPyat]

I think that you already answered your own question. If he adapted and improved aspects of black culture as Elvis Presley did with his music he would be a white innovator, or if he poked fun at the black culture he would be a comedian like Ali G, but eminem pretty much pretends to be a hard core ghetto black in earnest.

In his case, a wigger seems to fit the bill.

Actually, Ali G. ridicules a particular set of white culture, the sort of white people pretending to be black ghetto boys and usually looking complete fools. They are commonly called "whiggers".

[ColPyat]

IMHO westerner is more polite than folang, forang, white nigger etc....

Farang in itself is a completely neutral term describing caucasians. It's root is in Farsi, describing westerners as "ferengi", from the 'Franks', or the 'Frankish empires'. This term traveled along the trade routes, and arrived most likely that way here in Thailand as well, and was morphed into *farang*. In Urdu the term 'ferengi' is also used for caucasians, like so many words in Urdu a loan from Farsi. The famous and still powerful Bunnag family here in Thailand are descendents of Persian immigrants of the 17th century, for example, basically, showing the extensive trade networks Thailand, or Siam, had througout history.

Negative connotations in the term 'farang' are only by intonation or context, but not in the term itself.

Edited February 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

I'm surprised how the Aryans didn't find their way to this conversation yet.

I guess, because then it gets really confusing as the still unconfirmed "Aryans" originated maybe in Central Asia/Caucasus, and made huge travels to and fro over the centuries, and left their genes all over in the process.

There are at the LOC in India's part of Kashmir actually a few villages left that are considered by some almost pure Aryan. People there don't marry outside their clans, are very tall, light skinned, and have very dark hair. Well, and they are not living in the west...

Edited February 13, 2007 by ColPyat

[Jimjim]

Just an excuse for implied racism really, like the previous poster who claimed all things scientific and cultural came from the West - he's obviously doesn't know much history or he'd know that many parts of the world were far more advanced than Europe, which was a poverty-stricken, culturally ignorant backwater peopled by brutish peasants for most of human history. That why in 1421, when the Chinese Emperor invited representatives of the "civilised world" to Beijing for a confab, he didn't bother inviting anyone from Europe cause they were considered so backward by comparison with China. Probably still are...

Who said that? I certainly didn't. I couldn't find to who you were referring. Apologies if you didn't mean me, but I certainly didn't say that all things scientific and cultural came from the West. I merely said that reason and science are core values in the society that are championed more than in the East. I meant them together, not separately. Japan, for instance, champions science on itself quite highly, and to some degree reason, but not in the sense of reason for the individual outlook. The West, meanwhile, holds reason and science in high esteem as it relates to each individual's outlook. We're supposed to look at things in a scientific and reasonable way, where is that can't be said as much in the East. It can be said, perhaps, but not as one of the main values of Eastern societies. This all quite general and there can be contraditions, as well.

I didn't say that the East didn't do tons for science way before Europe did. The Chinese invented gunpowder and innumberable other things. It's the longest lasting organized civilization on Earth. Hindu is the oldest religion on Earth. Ancient Arabs invented much way before Europe did much.

So, if you meant me, I obviously do know history. I've studied history my whole life and was a history major. My post wasn't a complete explanation of the subject. I was merely giving my general definition of the main difference in philosophy between East and West.

However, if you didn't mean me, then I'm wasting my words.

[PeaceBlondie]

Western civilization is well understood, although Gandhi joked and asked if it really was civilized. I thought both Jingjing and jimjim had good descriptions, and Wikipedia wasn't far off.

Compass directions are totally relative to other points. Bangkokians are "Westerners" to Isaanites. George Bush cannot escape his childhood in West Texas, but he's essentially a New Englander, from the East Coast. How much more "Western" are the Cornish from the folks in East Anglia?

We may as well say that the term denotes "European" and then argue that at most, Europe is only half the continent of Eurasia. Jesus was an Asian, yes?

[pampal]

So called westerners claim to be of the Caucasian race,

the last time I looked, the Caucuses were in Central Asia, near Iran.

Central asia is considered eastern by most westerners.

The name of the country called Iran comes from the land of the aryans.

I think Einstein had it right, the bit about relativity I mean.

[pampal]

IMHO westerner is more polite than folang, forang, white nigger etc....

Farang in itself is a completely neutral term describing caucasians. It's root is in Farsi, describing westerners as "ferengi", from the 'Franks', or the 'Frankish empires'. This term traveled along the trade routes, and arrived most likely that way here in Thailand as well, and was morphed into *farang*. In Urdu the term 'ferengi' is also used for caucasians, like so many words in Urdu a loan from Farsi. The famous and still powerful Bunnag family here in Thailand are descendents of Persian immigrants of the 17th century, for example, basically, showing the extensive trade networks Thailand, or Siam, had througout history.

Negative connotations in the term 'farang' are only by intonation or context, but not in the term itself.

I agree with the majority of what you say, but in Farsi or Iran I should say, the word Farang means foreigner.

Farang does not denote a particular nationality, anyone who is not from Iran is called Farang, be they white, black or any other color.

It is an Indo European word, and if you take the word foreign and switch the n and the g, you have the word farang approximately.

When I was a child in Iran, we used to have a tv show called

Shahre Farang which means foreign cities.

This tv show travelled to different countries on different continents and showed the highlights of these cities.

Also the word traveled to Thailand by way of Iran, so I think that shows something about Iran's trade and not Thailand's.

Thailand didn't have traders travelling to Iran, it's the other way around.

[ColPyat]

I agree with the majority of what you say, but in Farsi or Iran I should say, the word Farang means foreigner.

Farang does not denote a particular nationality, anyone who is not from Iran is called Farang, be they white, black or any other color.

It is an Indo European word, and if you take the word foreign and switch the n and the g, you have the word farang approximately.

When I was a child in Iran, we used to have a tv show called

Shahre Farang which means foreign cities.

This tv show travelled to different countries on different continents and showed the highlights of these cities.

Also the word traveled to Thailand by way of Iran, so I think that shows something about Iran's trade and not Thailand's.

Thailand didn't have traders travelling to Iran, it's the other way around.

Yeah, of course it shows Irani world wide trade, not Thai. Thailand was though a centre for trade between the far east and the west. Jesas, even Roman trade beads are found en masse in southern Thailand.

There is still a lot unknown about relationships between east and west in prehistorical times and early history. One thing though is sure - there were many cultural and trade exchanges. How, for example were Celtish mummies found in north western China?

There are very clear religious connections between Germanic cultures, Eyptian and Indus cultures (very well presented in a book on the Beowulf saga, which though i gave up reading in the middle because it was getting way over my head).

There are fascinating theories about a second migration to America at the end of the last iceage along the iceshelf from southern France over the Atlantic, then the spread of the fat goddes of the neolithicum all over Europe up to the farthest reaches of Russia.

Or, Alexander the Great made it to India, and along the way founding seddlements. Still, in the Afghani - Pakisthani borderlands are villages with populations that still speak old Greek dialects.

Basically, all the separation of East and West are a load of bull, artificially created bounderies that may serve very well colonialist/racist/xenophobic tendencies in all cultures, but have very little to do with any reality.

For me, how i started understanding this in practice looks was slowly travelling overland from India to Europe when i was very young, and seeing how the differences somehow just merge slowly from one area to the next. That's when i started understanding by heart the utter futility of the "East vs. West" debate. It just leads into a deadend.

Sorry, finished waffling.

[qwertz]

Is it a white person (like pure white like white english) or what

lets discuss

just check out their nipples. If they are pink, they are "white" if they are a darkish color they are something else.

I have no nipples. So who am I?

an udder disgrace

Moooot point!