The Elimination Of Drugs.

[marshbags]

Courtesy of todays Perspective in the B.Post.

No letup in drug war

Out of the media spotlight, anti-narcotic officers are continuing their fight against smugglers along the borders, writes SONGPOL KAOPATUMTIP

Quote:-

Big drug seizures, like this one that netted one million methamphetamine tablets in Bangkok in August 2004, are now rare.

With the previous government's war on drugs now sunk into oblivion, there is hardly any news coming from the border areas where drug smugglers once plied their trade. Have methamphetamines, heroin and other addictive drugs stopped flowing into Thailand? Not at all, according to statistics provided by the Police Narcotics Suppression Bureau (NSB).

"During the past year, we seized millions of methamphetamine tablets and hundreds of kilogrammes of heroin," said Police Maj-Gen Amaresrit Wattanavibool, commander of the NSB's Division 1, whose jurisdiction covers Bangkok and all provinces under provincial police regions 1, 2 and 3.

"In fact, we have to increase surveillance and recruit more informants as smugglers have adopted new methods to evade our dragnets," he said.

His view is shared by security officials working along the Thai-Burmese border, who believe the price of high-grade heroin produced at clandestine labs will be higher this year. Premium heroin produced in the Shan State of Burma now fetches about 500 baht per gramme in northern Thailand. Dealers make a much bigger profit in the US, Europe and Australia.

Unquote.

Please go to the following url for the full article:-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Perspective/11Feb2007_pers38.php

How different the approaches are, it highlights even more the tragedy of what happened via Thaksin and his partners in crime and how futile and pointless the killings were.

Looking at the graphs of the years since the infamous vendetta was started and you can see that it hasn,t stopped or reduced the drug situation / wiped it out.

After the initial impact of the indiscriminate killings the figures went back up again, as predictably they would of course.

Not to the levels of pre February 2003 i admit, but not because of these inhuman and evil actions, i might vigorously add.

THis is due mainly to the Chinese intervention and the alterative supplies via Afghanistan ect. and NOT i might add because of The war on drugs as overseen by the ex C.E.O. of the last government.

May they all be brought to account via the I. H. Rights Watch along with the appropriate karma, BIG TIME.

This article shows the humane way to approach the situation without all the suffering all the innocents needlessly suffered.

Yes i know it,s been posted before, but i offer no apologies for keeping it in a prominent position were it belongs and deserves to be.

Least we forget, if i may be allowed to use this famous quote in their names.

marshbags Still and : about it all.

Edited February 11, 2007 by marshbags

[Heng]

I think the drug dealers would agree that the current administration is much preferred. Nothing against the current administration of course, as they are indeed the old school status quo (drugs freely flowing into and out of the country, valves 99% open...with 1% "for show" seizures). Under the previous administration... it was likely only a marginally better 95% open.

[jamman]

God grant me the wisdom to not waste mental energy on things I can't affect.

Is raising awareness about this issue likely to have any effect?

After aknowledging the tragedy and injustice, is there any benefit to the injustificated in paying attention to it?

[marshbags]

God grant me the wisdom to not waste mental energy on things I can't affect.

Is raising awareness about this issue likely to have any effect?

After aknowledging the tragedy and injustice, is there any benefit to the injustificated in paying attention to it?

Yes

It cannot be allowed to fade away.

Just look at the effect the C.E.O in question is having by keeping his profile in the news.

Albeit not the effect he was / is, hoping for.

It got you to react regarding my post and i feel sure that on a much larger scale the publication in the B.Post had a similar effect on society in reminding them of the infamous actions taken, especially the authorities who are already sympathetic to what happened and who made the decisions to pursue it in such a violent and murderous fashion.

marshbags

[dgoz]

Dave's not here man.

[fruittbatt]

Marshbags, i totally agree about the shamefulness and futility of killing drug offenders and even those suspected of being involved. To me the biggest and most relevant question is:

whose interests does it serve to keep drugs illegal.........in this country or in any other?

[ColPyat]

It cannot be allowed to fade away.

But as i have argued already months ago - it fades away, and will continue to do so. It is simply not in the interest of the ones who hold power now to go too deep into that very uncomfortable issue of the killings, because it was a concerted effort of all networks of power, and not, as you mistakingly believe, Thaksin alone. Unless they find a way to put the blame solely on Thaksin, then they might go ahead, but i very much doubt that this will be possible.

Maybe, in a few months time, when the drugwar killings have fallen completely under the table you will be able then to re-evaluate your opinion of the present powers.

I fear that you present views are more guided by wishful thinking than by a pragmatic asessment of the realities of power distribution in Thailand.

[Robski]

It won't fade away, my prediction for this thread; arguments, flames, closed. ZzZzZzZz

[Briggsy]

It cannot be allowed to fade away.

But as i have argued already months ago - it fades away, and will continue to do so. It is simply not in the interest of the ones who hold power now to go too deep into that very uncomfortable issue of the killings, because it was a concerted effort of all networks of power, and not, as you mistakingly believe, Thaksin alone. Unless they find a way to put the blame solely on Thaksin, then they might go ahead, but i very much doubt that this will be possible.

Maybe, in a few months time, when the drugwar killings have fallen completely under the table you will be able then to re-evaluate your opinion of the present powers.

I fear that you present views are more guided by wishful thinking than by a pragmatic asessment of the realities of power distribution in Thailand.

Absolutely spot on. In fact, the Bangkok Post ran an article/pretty portrait of the police head of the Office of the Narcotic Control Board at the time of the war on drugs as he now cements his position within the new order.

There will be no prosecutions, no truth and reconciliation commission or such like. It is not the Thai way, in fact it is not the Asian way. It will be swept under the carpet and not talked about publicly.

[ColPyat]

There will be no prosecutions, no truth and reconciliation commission or such like. It is not the Thai way, in fact it is not the Asian way. It will be swept under the carpet and not talked about publicly.

I think it is very helpful to look back at especially the '76 massaker and susequent extrajudical killings, and the '92 massaker, read the available in depth analyses on these events, especially the non-mainstream ones, and one can draw clear parallels between the drugwar and those atrocities, and find out why the power distribution in Thailand stands in the way of ever allowing independent inquiries into those incidents.

[Briggsy]

There will be no prosecutions, no truth and reconciliation commission or such like. It is not the Thai way, in fact it is not the Asian way. It will be swept under the carpet and not talked about publicly.

I think it is very helpful to look back at especially the '76 massaker and susequent extrajudical killings, and the '92 massaker, read the available in depth analyses on these events, especially the non-mainstream ones, and one can draw clear parallels between the drugwar and those atrocities, and find out why the power distribution in Thailand stands in the way of ever allowing independent inquiries into those incidents.

Absolutely on the button once again. I was gonna harp on about Gen Suchinda and the Kittipachorn family seeing out their retirement years peacefully and in luxury. And the evidence linking them to their respective massacres is even stronger than the evidence against Thaksin.

The maintenance or very gradual flux of the power status quo of the highest echelons is far far more important than the deaths of even a few thousand ordinary citizens in this nation.

[terry57]

Dave's not here man.

cheech and chong .

how funny was that skit mate.

and that ripping guitar lick. i'll never forget that guitar lick and it still rips through my brain.

awesome.

[marshbags]

It cannot be allowed to fade away.

But as i have argued already months ago - it fades away, and will continue to do so. It is simply not in the interest of the ones who hold power now to go too deep into that very uncomfortable issue of the killings, because it was a concerted effort of all networks of power, and not, as you mistakingly believe, Thaksin alone. Unless they find a way to put the blame solely on Thaksin, then they might go ahead, but i very much doubt that this will be possible.

Maybe, in a few months time, when the drugwar killings have fallen completely under the table you will be able then to re-evaluate your opinion of the present powers.

I fear that you present views are more guided by wishful thinking than by a pragmatic asessment of the realities of power distribution in Thailand.

Absolutely spot on. In fact, the Bangkok Post ran an article/pretty portrait of the police head of the Office of the Narcotic Control Board at the time of the war on drugs as he now cements his position within the new order.

There will be no prosecutions, no truth and reconciliation commission or such like. It is not the Thai way, in fact it is not the Asian way. It will be swept under the carpet and not talked about publicly.

Perhaps in Thailand but the I.H.R.Watch will keep bringing it up at opportune times, this you can be assured of.

This will never be cut free from Thaksins neck and in the years to come he can be assured of an infamous place in history.

As i was not around to witness what happened in years prior to this i am not in a position to add my personal feelings or comparisons.

All i will say is their were many abuses around the world before the present H. Rights where put in place and Governments were educated, as a consequence, they are now being held to account.

marshbags

Talking of eradicating the problem, killing indescrimately is hardly educational now is it.

Edited February 12, 2007 by marshbags

[Briggsy]

It cannot be allowed to fade away.

But as i have argued already months ago - it fades away, and will continue to do so. It is simply not in the interest of the ones who hold power now to go too deep into that very uncomfortable issue of the killings, because it was a concerted effort of all networks of power, and not, as you mistakingly believe, Thaksin alone. Unless they find a way to put the blame solely on Thaksin, then they might go ahead, but i very much doubt that this will be possible.

Maybe, in a few months time, when the drugwar killings have fallen completely under the table you will be able then to re-evaluate your opinion of the present powers.

I fear that you present views are more guided by wishful thinking than by a pragmatic asessment of the realities of power distribution in Thailand.

Absolutely spot on. In fact, the Bangkok Post ran an article/pretty portrait of the police head of the Office of the Narcotic Control Board at the time of the war on drugs as he now cements his position within the new order.

There will be no prosecutions, no truth and reconciliation commission or such like. It is not the Thai way, in fact it is not the Asian way. It will be swept under the carpet and not talked about publicly.

Perhaps in Thailand but the I.H.R.Watch will keep bringing it up at opportune times, this you can be assured of.

This will never be cut free from Thaksins neck and in the years to come he can be assured of an infamous place in history.

As i was not around to witness what happened in years prior to this i am not in a position to add my personal feelings or comparisons.

All i will say is their were many abuses around the world before the present H. Rights where put in place and Governments were educated, as a consequence, they are now being held to account.

marshbags

Talking of eradicating the problem, killing indescrimately is hardly educational now is it.

Yes, that's right. While Thailand will never seriously address the atrocities that were committed, turning the main protagonists of this policy into international pariahs would be some punishment. Let's see if anyone (journalists, politicians, NGOs ?) raises the human rights issue while he's in Australia. There would certainly be an opportunity as China would not permit him to be bothered by human rights protesters in Beijing.

[jamman]

It cannot be allowed to fade away.

But as i have argued already months ago - it fades away, and will continue to do so. It is simply not in the interest of the ones who hold power now to go too deep into that very uncomfortable issue of the killings, because it was a concerted effort of all networks of power, and not, as you mistakingly believe, Thaksin alone. Unless they find a way to put the blame solely on Thaksin, then they might go ahead, but i very much doubt that this will be possible.

Maybe, in a few months time, when the drugwar killings have fallen completely under the table you will be able then to re-evaluate your opinion of the present powers.

I fear that you present views are more guided by wishful thinking than by a pragmatic asessment of the realities of power distribution in Thailand.

Absolutely spot on. In fact, the Bangkok Post ran an article/pretty portrait of the police head of the Office of the Narcotic Control Board at the time of the war on drugs as he now cements his position within the new order.

There will be no prosecutions, no truth and reconciliation commission or such like. It is not the Thai way, in fact it is not the Asian way. It will be swept under the carpet and not talked about publicly.

Perhaps in Thailand but the I.H.R.Watch will keep bringing it up at opportune times, this you can be assured of.

This will never be cut free from Thaksins neck and in the years to come he can be assured of an infamous place in history.

As i was not around to witness what happened in years prior to this i am not in a position to add my personal feelings or comparisons.

All i will say is their were many abuses around the world before the present H. Rights where put in place and Governments were educated, as a consequence, they are now being held to account.

marshbags

Talking of eradicating the problem, killing indescrimately is hardly educational now is it.

Yes, that's right. While Thailand will never seriously address the atrocities that were committed, turning the main protagonists of this policy into international pariahs would be some punishment. Let's see if anyone (journalists, politicians, NGOs ?) raises the human rights issue while he's in Australia. There would certainly be an opportunity as China would not permit him to be bothered by human rights protesters in Beijing.

What effect did raising awareness of China's occupation of Tibet have? Raising awareness of the oppressions of the military rule in Burma?

Does anyone believe that Falangs can have any effect on Thai policy regarding their drug war? The killings are likely supported by the powerful politicians in the U.S.

How naive do you have to be to think that public opinion of westerners makes any difference, in this case?

[paulsmithson]

My nephews and neices lived in a run down area of Bangkok that was rapidly becoming unsafe due to the increasing use of drugs by some Thai several years ago.

Thanks to Mr Taxin's no messing about shoot the bastards policy, the last time I was there the area had returned to a degree of its previous normality.

I am sick of the bleeding hearts liberals and their misguided softly softly approach to drugs.

Tomorrows kids need a chance in life and I would gladly volunteer to pull the trigger on anyone dealing in drugs and corrupting the children of any country.

Forty years of nonsense and pussy footing has only fuelled the problem of drug abuse!

[ColPyat]

I am sick of the bleeding hearts liberals and their misguided softly softly approach to drugs.

Tomorrows kids need a chance in life and I would gladly volunteer to pull the trigger on anyone dealing in drugs and corrupting the children of any country.

Yeps, lets get back into stone age, lets forget about due process, human rights, democracy - and lets just shoot every tosser we don't like.

[Briggsy]

My nephews and neices lived in a run down area of Bangkok that was rapidly becoming unsafe due to the increasing use of drugs by some Thai several years ago.

Thanks to Mr Taxin's no messing about shoot the bastards policy, the last time I was there the area had returned to a degree of its previous normality.

I am sick of the bleeding hearts liberals and their misguided softly softly approach to drugs.

Tomorrows kids need a chance in life and I would gladly volunteer to pull the trigger on anyone dealing in drugs and corrupting the children of any country.

Forty years of nonsense and pussy footing has only fuelled the problem of drug abuse!

Your analysis is somewhat simplistic.

For one point, the very people who have been running and profiting from the drug trade for forty years were the ones pulling the trigger. Would you really trust them to do it effectively if that was what you wanted?

[peter991]

Yeps, lets get back into stone age, lets forget about due process, human rights, democracy - and lets just shoot every tosser we don't like.

Sorry to sound harsh - but I have to agree to some extent with paulsmithson. I cannot speak about Bangkok's drug problem (or lack of) because when I fly into Thailand - I just overnight there and fly to Issan as soon as possible and spend most of my time there. In Issan - drugs are not a problem.

My Thai other half doesn't like going to Pattaya as he finds it too easy to get drugs and too hard to say no when his friends hand them out like lollies.

Give me a drug-free Thailand any day. Look what serious penalties did for Singapore. Okay - I wouldn't like to live there - but at least I feel safe there.

Look at the drug problems in USA, Australia and England - where bleeding heart liberals have literally given up on eradicating the supply of illegal drugs.

Allowing Injecting Rooms and the like! Get real!

Thailand should be proud of their stance against illegal drugs - not condemned for their actions - no matter how harsh the measures they take.

Peter

[meadish_sweetball]

Thailand should be proud of their stance against illegal drugs - not condemned for their actions - no matter how harsh the measures they take.

Taking a stance against drugs is one thing.

Sacrificing innocent people, even children, as collateral damage and granting extrajudiciary powers when we know many law enforcement officers are corrupt, and will have the opportunity to rid themselves of anyone they wish by claiming they were 'involved with drugs' is something completely different.

If you look hard enough you should be able to see one should be able to achieve the first without supporting the other.

[marshbags]

I am sick of the bleeding hearts liberals and their misguided softly softly approach to drugs.

Tomorrows kids need a chance in life and I would gladly volunteer to pull the trigger on anyone dealing in drugs and corrupting the children of any country.

Yeps, lets get back into stone age, lets forget about due process, human rights, democracy - and lets just shoot every tosser we don't like.

Well said C.P. ( i think ) i totally agree with your inverted statement. Thanks are in order on this one.

P.S,son you worry me with this post and your possible mental situation on lawful intervention.

God help us all with the implications of your / this sort of statement.

Just make sure you go for the right people / PUYAI to eliminate the problem and not the ones sadly took out by the E.Killings as scapegoats and used as political fodder, and please find a more humane way to stop them, even if they do deserve a harsher penalty.

How sad and misguided you appear to be, especially if you truly believe your statement.

marshbags you,re

Edited February 13, 2007 by marshbags

[ColPyat]

Thailand should be proud of their stance against illegal drugs - not condemned for their actions - no matter how harsh the measures they take.

Peter

It would lead a bit far to debate here reasonably about drugs, and the hypocracies of worldwide drugpolitics.

What i would like to ask you though if you have ever familiarized yourself with the drugwar of 2003, especially the first two months in which several thousand people on blacklists were summarily executed by death squads, and by police officers in the trade to silence them?

So far none of these murders were properly investigated and punished.

Even if you support criminalisation of drugs, you should at least support the constitutional right of due process, and not summary executions. At least i hope so.

[ColPyat]

Well said C.P. ( i think ) i totally agree with your inverted statement. Thanks are in order on this one.

Thanks.

Don't get me wrong - i do share your outrage against the drugwar killings, and your feelings about the culprits having to be brought to justice. The only thing we differ is that i do believe that the culprits in this incident are not just to be found in TRT, and Thaksin specifically, but that it was a concerted effort of the elites and the establishment to counter a perceived thread against society.

The drugwar was in many ways very similar to the political killings of the aera around '76, used very similar tactics. I would advise you to read up on accounts of that time in order to understand what happened during the drugwar.

There were very complex social mechanics at play, and this is why you will not get any open inquiry into the drugwar, even less so than the still unpunished '76/'77 incidents. In 2003 the victims had no voice, and still don't have one.

[Ned]

Thaksin's 2003 War on Drugs was an astute political move and will go down as probably the most popular and respected thing he did during his murderous tenure.

[LivinLOS]

In Issan - drugs are not a problem.

You are joking are you not ??

If you think those guys having the running battles at the morlam concerts are only high on lao khao your kidding yourself..

[LivinLOS]

Personally as a these days non drug user, I still think the whole thing stinks of hipocracy..

Every society on the planet (except the eskumo's oddly) have an intoxicant of one kind or other. Many sane and serious discussions can be had about the social damage associated with smoking weed versus drinking alcohol with its domestic violence, crammed friday night A&E wards, etc.. Cultures through the world have had positive experiences and perceived thier worlds differently and more emphatically with a veriaty of psychedelics.

Yet rotting your brain (and liver) drinking Lao Khao at 9 in the morning is socially tolerated and legal and yet someone chosing to smoke a joint is breaking the law and has the associated risk and punishment. If that person wishes to purchase anything to smoke they have to mix with the criminal elements of society to do so and those profits from the sale of illegal intoxicants make powerful and rich those real gangsters that work in the industry.

We will never win a war through prohibition, the only way to make a positive effect is via education, and emphasising social responsibility, and responsibility for ones actions and deeds. We seem to be able to have responsible drinkers in society, we accept that young people (and not so young) often do stupid things when drunk, yet we tolerate that intoxicant with all its issues.

To me the question is far more about what is morally correct than what is legal, for instance it is totally legal for me to order and have posted here to Thailand Salvia Divinorum AKA Diviners sage, its not classed as illegal yet is one of the strongest psychedelics on the planet akin to DMT, use it and you visit the space pixies for a bit. Now just because that legal does that mean that young people and developing minds should have easy access to it ?? Should it be something used carelessly daily or even weekly ?? Of course not. But the whole legal v illegal classifications systems is fundamentally floored. Abusing alcohol is far worse than light use of most other things, the key there is the user of an intoxicant (including a drinker) versus the abuser of an intoxicant. Thats not something that legislation will decide, its only something that education, social guidance, having a personal moral compass and some measure of self control will ever hope to control.

Making things illegal does not make them go away, it merely makes criminals of the people that choose to do them.

[bernie66]

My nephews and neices lived in a run down area of Bangkok that was rapidly becoming unsafe due to the increasing use of drugs by some Thai several years ago.

Thanks to Mr Taxin's no messing about shoot the bastards policy, the last time I was there the area had returned to a degree of its previous normality.

I am sick of the bleeding hearts liberals and their misguided softly softly approach to drugs.

Tomorrows kids need a chance in life and I would gladly volunteer to pull the trigger on anyone dealing in drugs and corrupting the children of any country.

Forty years of nonsense and pussy footing has only fuelled the problem of drug abuse!

Are you telling us that the rundown area of Bangkok would be safe if no one was getting high down their ? If drugs have this magical ability to transform the innocents of the children into these monstrous beasts of burden unleashed on society. Then why is it that the Dutch have the fewest problems with drugs than anyone else in the world. I am really, really tired of drugs being the worlds scapegoat. the world is being brain washed to believe that crime would be non violent if drugs were not involved. Drugs do this and drugs do that! How do you know if you never did drugs. If coffee were illegal then children would want it, organized crime would sell it, and the police would move it. And every night their would be coffee murder on the TV so the cops could get more money to save our children. It’s all going to come down to one decision. Either give up all public rights to privacy. I mean give the police the right to inter your home anytime they want with random drug screening at every street corner. Or stop trying to catch everyone getting high. Drugs are not making people do crimes. The monetary value you make of it through prohibition makes it prevalent with the poor and more attractive as income. The value you give it through interdiction causes people to obsess with it and do crimes in its name.

[bernie66]

Personally as a these days non drug user, I still think the whole thing stinks of hipocracy..

Every society on the planet (except the eskumo's oddly) have an intoxicant of one kind or other. Many sane and serious discussions can be had about the social damage associated with smoking weed versus drinking alcohol with its domestic violence, crammed friday night A&E wards, etc.. Cultures through the world have had positive experiences and perceived thier worlds differently and more emphatically with a veriaty of psychedelics.

Yet rotting your brain (and liver) drinking Lao Khao at 9 in the morning is socially tolerated and legal and yet someone chosing to smoke a joint is breaking the law and has the associated risk and punishment. If that person wishes to purchase anything to smoke they have to mix with the criminal elements of society to do so and those profits from the sale of illegal intoxicants make powerful and rich those real gangsters that work in the industry.

We will never win a war through prohibition, the only way to make a positive effect is via education, and emphasising social responsibility, and responsibility for ones actions and deeds. We seem to be able to have responsible drinkers in society, we accept that young people (and not so young) often do stupid things when drunk, yet we tolerate that intoxicant with all its issues.

To me the question is far more about what is morally correct than what is legal, for instance it is totally legal for me to order and have posted here to Thailand Salvia Divinorum AKA Diviners sage, its not classed as illegal yet is one of the strongest psychedelics on the planet akin to DMT, use it and you visit the space pixies for a bit. Now just because that legal does that mean that young people and developing minds should have easy access to it ?? Should it be something used carelessly daily or even weekly ?? Of course not. But the whole legal v illegal classifications systems is fundamentally floored. Abusing alcohol is far worse than light use of most other things, the key there is the user of an intoxicant (including a drinker) versus the abuser of an intoxicant. Thats not something that legislation will decide, its only something that education, social guidance, having a personal moral compass and some measure of self control will ever hope to control.

Making things illegal does not make them go away, it merely makes criminals of the people that choose to do them.

AMEN,

[fruittbatt]

Making things illegal does not make them go away, it merely makes criminals of the people that choose to do them.

Illegality also

allows corruption and a drug mafia to run rampant

raises prices of drugs to the point where users have to commit crimes to get their hit.

The obscene profits from illegal drugs also

keep regimes like the military junta in Burma in power

fund Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan

fund civil wars and arms purchases.

In other words, keeping drugs illegal serves some very powerful interests, from aggressive regimes to arms dealers and manufacturers.

[Robski]

It's all well and good arguing the pro's of decriminalization of all drugs, but it's not going to happen, yes it's a form of targetted control, it's oppressive, it's devisive, a perfect tool for those in power, therefore in their view it's not futile.

Set up a poll, yes or no, will drugs ever get decriminalized.

I think we all already know the answer.

It's castles in the sky, man.