Has Samui Gone To The "dogs"?

[wilko]

About 2 years afo I got conjunctivitis whilst on Samui. This I was advised was most liley coaught when swimming. I also asked a few diving people what if they had any experience of this and several people confirmed that they had had similar problems.

There is no serious checking of water quality on Samui and most sewerage is soakaway. with the amount of hotels on the beaches there now, where d'you think the sewage ends up?

many dive schools have to further and further afield because the local coral is dying.

The whole place is a disgrace to Thailand.

BTW - don't think that clear water is necessarily clean watereither; clear water often occurs when all the plankton has died off.

[wilko]

About 2 years ago I got conjunctivitis whilst on Samui. This I was advised was most likely caught when swimming. I also asked a few diving people what if they had any experience of this and several people confirmed that they had had similar problems.

There is no serious checking of water quality on Samui and most sewerage is soakaway. With the amount of hotels on the beaches there now, where d'you think the sewage ends up?

many dive schools have to further and further afield because the local coral is dying.

The whole place is a disgrace to Thailand.

BTW - don't think that clear water is necessarily clean water either; clear water often occurs when all the plankton has died off.

[limbos]

Than I have very good news, as a diver I can confirm that Chaweng does NOT have clear water.

I dive it approximately once a month, at least.

[yabs]

wilko

thanks at last a word of sense for once

clear water does in no way indicate its ok .

One of the most publisized case of water contamination from tourist developement was on Borocay.

water looks clear although there is some algae but the water is infested with Ecoli as the septic tanks were leaching into the groundwater.

**abuse of another member removed***

Edited February 25, 2007 by sbk

[wilko]

In a few years time Samui will be a lump of concrete covered in hotels. I would love to know if there is a conservation movement in Thailand because it not just Samui, every island and beauty spot in Thailand that is under immediate threat.

Samui has just had a property/land scandal, it would appear that local government officials have been accepting bribes and releasing land for development that should never have been released. Furthermore what land is still earmarked for conservation (mainly in the hills) has been encroached on by farmers and developers. In Thailand you cannot build on land that slopes more than 19 degrees! Yet development is now sprouting up all over the hills.

As the west coast suffers from a post Tsunami slump the developers have turned their attention to the islands in the sheltered gulf; this has greatly accelerated the rate of destruction.

There is little or no attempt at conservation...has anyone wondered where all the extra sewerage goes? What about water?

Ask yourself this.....

• Where does the sewerage go?

• Where are the mangroves?

• What happened to the local agricultural industries?

• What do the fishermen do now?

• Where are all the fish?

• Where does the water come from and where does it go?

• What is the sea water quality on my beach?

• How is the coral?

• Who is looking after the marine and forest nature reserves?

• Who owns the land?

Furthermore, Samui having had a spate of “illegal” development now have succumbed to the condo.....previously banned on the island they have now given way and permitted this concrete based high-rise blight

You are not an eco-tourist on Samui you are contributing to the island’s demise as a natural destination.

.....Samui is dead...long live the next island....

[wilko]

Any diver will tell you that water visibility is not a constant and many factors change it. I'm saying that clear water is no guarantee of clean water. However murky water also needs to be explained. Sometimes it is no more than wind or tide but at times this can also be a result of algal bloom or run-off from the island...

[southwest19]

Its been refutted by you and your middle aged backapcker friends

well what more proof do we need that the beaches are not polluted.

Never mind that scores of people get ill from swimming there every year.

tell me in your refuting did you carry out Ecoli tests or just take sniff and say yeah that smells ok

so it must be alright. I havn't been for two years

So what. It was overdeveloped then and the overdevelopement will only have got worse as I know it has.

So again why are your completely uneducated and naive views more important than various publiocatiosn on the matter?

Travelfish is a very up to date site and have numerous people travelling and reporting at the same time reporting what they find.

Proof isd not needed to say its polluted.

FACT: there is no waste water treatment on the island. Millions of people shit and wash there every year.

perhaps only Hercule f***king Poirot could figure out where this waste goes.

on I wonder could it be the sea perhaps?

I am posting a FACT

SAMUI particularly CHAWENG is overdeveloped

thats a fact that cannot be refuted by anyone.

defintition from Wikepedia

Overdevelopment refers to a process by which natural resources are impacted by urbanization and/or road construction, at a rate significantly harmful to the ecosystem

Some believe that an area is overdeveloped when any environmental elements are disturbed, while others believe that overdevelopment has only occurred when there is a direct, measurable, impact upon human life,

whichever definition you look at samui is overdeveloped. Why else do the areas flood every year.

I know where Kettle is coming from

she probably went there as backpacker years ago

dropped out of society

has lived there since on a pittance and knows she can never go back home with a 20 year gap on her cv but can't bare to face the reality

that Samui is not Paradise anymore

All you can do is quote a travel guide you have no first hand recent experience you know nothing and your ignorant postings just re-enforce that fact.

If you are and your fellow serial complainers are making the claims it is up to you to prove them not me. How can I prove Chaweng is not polluted, how can I prove there are no traffic jams, how can I prove there are no daily power cuts, you cannot unless you are on Samui and see for yourself but I forgot you have visited here a whopping 3 times and have not been here for 2 years so you know nothing.

You do seem to know rather alot about Ibiza, Spain, Tesco, Subway and chavs in fact alot more then me so I assume you must have had alot of first hand experience.

I am also rather curious why you spend so much time on a forum on a place you have been to 3 times and not for the last two years. Billy no mates and get a life spring to mind!

[sbk]

I have just cleaned up the flames and pointless off topic posts. Any more and suspension will be handed out and the thread closed.

Insults and flaming are against forum rules and as I have warned and warned, next offender will be suspended.

[yabs]

thankyou Wilko

very succintly and eloquently put.

I'm really having a a hard time understanding where Kettle is coming from.

please read Wilkos posts and digest and ask yourself this very important question

where does the sewage from one million plus tourists each year go.

Please answer this question so this debate can be drawn to a con clusion for all of us.

Its obvious it goes in the sea but as yoiu are there now perhaps you can tell us for sure.

We will wait for your answer.;

also where are all the fish?

did they go on holiday to Koh Tao or is it perhaps that the waters are too polluted for them.

Samui is a digrace and to stick up for it is also one

[limbos]

Since 8 years I'm living and diving on Samui.

In those 8 years, I've not seen a decline in fish on Chaweng beach. Just IMHO.

Yabs,

Kettle made a very good observation, you came to Samui for the first time 5 years ago, the last time you visitied was 2 years ago. Out of those experiences you seem to establish yourself as an expert on Thailand and Samui.

You posted 40 posts in a short timeframe, all telling us what an expert you are on Samui and Thailand in general, don't you have anything better to do? What's your agenda?

Edited February 25, 2007 by limbos

[wilko]

Maybe because even 8 years ago they were already depleted or you just haven't counted them!

I'm certainly not going to get into a stats hurling match or debate your powers of observation....or even how you come to that conclusion. However, you could of course, if you felt at all concerned for the ecology of your home, go and check up on fishing catch figures for the island with the local ministry

Edited February 25, 2007 by wilko

[southwest19]

Maybe because even 8 years ago they were already depleted or you just haven't counted them!

I'm certainly not going to get into a stats hurling match or debate your powers of observation.

You could of course if you felt at all concerned for the ecology of your home go and check up on fishing catch figures for the island with the local ministry

Visited Plai Laem Fish market on Friday and there was locally caught fish and shellfish in abundance so maybe you are looking in the wrong place.

[yabs]

I saw what I saw and theres no need to live there to from ana opinion

it was right on the verge of being overdeveloped 5 years ago and when i went back 3 and then 2 years ago

i was absolutley shocked at how the island had changed and for the worse.

I've been going to thailand for 6 months a year for the last 5 years so i';m not just some one off tourist

and in that time i've witnessed the destruction of just about every beach I liked.

no agenda i'm just angry at what has happended to thailand.

I love tropical beaches, snorkelling diving and swimming and it really pissed me off that

A most people who go to thailand now don't seem to care for that and B its impossible to find somewhere in thailkand which offers what i'm looking for when in all reason it should be inundated with the places i like

but they are all being ruined by thoughtless greed and development and thoughless chav tourists with not a thought for the marine environment that I cherish.

IOt then riles me that posters like Kettle seem to think I'm in the wrong for feeling like that

and i should just aceept that environemental ruin are normal with progress

or even worse than that she is blind to the ruin thats taken place

[wilko]

Just how many are locally caught?

Did you compare the catch with ten years ago?

[sbk]

Koh Phangan has noticed a marked decrease in locally caught fish, but not because of any kind of pollution. The culprit is easy enough to see, just look 1/2k off the beach at the fishing trawlers seine net fishing illegally off the reef. I believe they fish Samui this way as well.

And just so you know, the fishing trawlers are not locally owned.

[wilko]

You can't trawl a reef - it would do untold damage to the reef and your gear. The large fishing vessell you see around the gulf are capable of travelling great distances and have to in order to get a catch they can be from anywhere. The most common sight off Samui is the lights of the squid fleet.

Just think about it for a moment how can the fish stocks of Samui suddenly support the increase in population brought about by tourism?

You may want to say you saw fishing vessells unloading at the key.....well Samui is an island; everything comes by boat. If you see some crates of Coca-Cola unloaded, does that mean it's locally caught Coke?!?!!

[sbk]

wilko, would you like to see the photos? the net is clearly visible. I have watched these guys fish illegally off the reef for the past 18 years. I do know what I am seeing.

I even watched the net on one of them get caught on something and pull the boat under. All the local fishermen cheered to watch it sink, this was 2 years ago.

[wilko]

I would consider that an example of "considerable damage to your gear" If they ARE trawling the reefs, it's a fine example of Samui going to the dogs.

Trawling a reef destroys it...if you destroy the reefs you are destroying Samui and all the other islands.

The reefs won't regenerate and as they act as breakwaters around the island the island itself will suffer erosion etc.

Go on then....show us the photos.....

Edited February 25, 2007 by wilko

[sbk]

If? ???

BTW, I said OFF the reef, not directly on it, but less than 50m away. I was standing on the beach when I took this photo. and the reef is fairly far out from here, maybe 100m

And as I said, the trawlers are not locally owned but owned by influential people on the mainland. The Marine Police will not touch these boats.

[wilko]

So the point you are makling is what?

[sbk]

That the lack of fish isn't necessarily due to pollution but to overfishing, as I said about 7 posts back??

[wilko]

The kind of fish that live close top the island and further afield are not necessarily the same.

The pollution from sewerage and chemical run-off is more likely to kill fish close to the island and the trawlers will probably not navigate inside a reef.

Either way it is symptomatic of the way Thailand treats its natural resources...a total lack of forsight and overdevelopment, overfishing and overgreedy.

Fish around the island would use mangroves as nurseries, these have all but gone. Samui never had a largew population until after the 70s....the fishermen caught fish to sell on the mainland. the fishing communities here wwere using the place as a convenient mooring place.

However it is the largest prioducer of coconuts in Thailand.

[sbk]

Wilko, won't nitpick with you about details since I agree with you on principle.

The Thai govt too often forgoes punishing wrongdoers because of their influence. Be it pollution, overfishing, overdevelopment or illegal land encroachment. This does not happen on just Koh Samui but everywhere there is money to be made.

[SamuiJens]

I think this snippet from travel Fish sums the situation up perfectly

"With over a million visitors a year, Ko Samui's inadequate infrastructure is at breaking point, yet development continues unabated. Huge swathes of land are cordoned off for developers to slap up massive "luxurious" residential compounds -- well away from the chaotic mess some of the beachside developments have become. Then, as Ko Samui's first million-dollar house was sold, the lure of big bucks has even more developers scrambling for a piece of the action.

As the lush inland areas are deforested and concreted, topsoil run-off blights the roads in wet-season -- even a short downpour leaves many roads awash in red water -- areas such as Bophut and Chaweng flood in an instant. At times you can really be left scratching your head wondering if anyone really cares about what a mess parts of the island have become."

no need to say anymore really

I think my opinion concurs with many more acclaimed writers and websites .

I havn't seen anything in print to back kettles opinion up

Just got in, and yabs post here is fact, I've lived here since 96, I should know. but too many feel that it's a no-no to say ANYTHING bad about samui, I wonlder why?

Edited February 25, 2007 by SamuiJens

[yabs]

because it isn't politically corect to do so as thailand is a developing country and thus is removed from any critisism and I suspect certain people here rely on the tourist tade as well

[RAZZELL]

I think this should be pinned with the "How Long's a Piece of String?" thread

RAZZ

[SamuiJens]

I think this should be pinned with the "How Long's a Piece of String?" thread

RAZZ

Razz, has yabs a point?...Wondering?

[wilko]

Wilko, won't nitpick with you about details since I agree with you on principle.

The Thai govt too often forgoes punishing wrongdoers because of their influence. Be it pollution, overfishing, overdevelopment or illegal land encroachment. This does not happen on just Koh Samui but everywhere there is money to be made.

I know - you should read what I've said about Koh Chang!

[southwest19]

I think this snippet from travel Fish sums the situation up perfectly

"With over a million visitors a year, Ko Samui's inadequate infrastructure is at breaking point, yet development continues unabated. Huge swathes of land are cordoned off for developers to slap up massive "luxurious" residential compounds -- well away from the chaotic mess some of the beachside developments have become. Then, as Ko Samui's first million-dollar house was sold, the lure of big bucks has even more developers scrambling for a piece of the action.

As the lush inland areas are deforested and concreted, topsoil run-off blights the roads in wet-season -- even a short downpour leaves many roads awash in red water -- areas such as Bophut and Chaweng flood in an instant. At times you can really be left scratching your head wondering if anyone really cares about what a mess parts of the island have become."

no need to say anymore really

I think my opinion concurs with many more acclaimed writers and websites .

I havn't seen anything in print to back kettles opinion up

Just got in, and yabs post here is fact, I've lived here since 96, I should know. but too many feel that it's a no-no to say ANYTHING bad about samui, I wonlder why?

you have lived here since 96 and come back every 3 months yet you think 'Samui has gone to the dogs" why do you keep coming back instead of doing everyone on Samui a big favour by staying away!

Simple if you don't like it get a life and move on!

[SamuiJens]

I would like to HELP, not destroy the Island like some do!!

Razz?

Edited February 25, 2007 by SamuiJens