BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[blackhorse]

Thanks for sharing this here. I have an appointment on the 26th. Since I'm going to be home for 3 months after that, thought prudent to make an appointment just in case current policy changes. Glad I did. This next extension was probably going to be my last one anyway. I'm a bit sad that the U.S. embassy is even "evaluating" but perhaps there will some other type of statement. Hopefully, if there are changes they will give some notice.

Evaluating does not sound good when others eg oz and Germany have made proactive announcements they won't be changing anything.

So now USA citizens will walk on egg shells for a few months

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Is that from personal experience, or from someone you know, or just generally accepted knowledge? I have never tried, but I am trying to separate actual fact from everything else - I find it strange that the British Embassy would say that it is possible to go the income route with regular income to a Thai account if they hadn't been told that by the Thais.

We've had reports here of such rejections and no reports of acceptance without the letter.

The British embassy does NOT design Thai immigration policies.

Go ahead and try it. 

[flipside555]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

yeah, and brexit means brexit, why believe these toads, they have moved to a smaller embassy and are saving on staff.

I'm no fan of the BE. Earlier this year they stopped various services that are taken for granted at other embassies. Their response time to queries is terrible. Sometimes the don't reply at all. 

 

But I find it difficult to believe that they simply made this up out of blue.  They've publicly stated that Thai Immigration requires them to verify all sources of income. As I say, I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this. We need to hear from the other embassies and possibly from Thai Immigration. The American Embassy has said that it is aware of the British statement and is looking into it.

[wayned]

6 minutes ago, granuaile said:

Thanks for sharing this here. I have an appointment on the 26th. Since I'm going to be home for 3 months after that, thought prudent to make an appointment just in case current policy changes. Glad I did. This next extension was probably going to be my last one anyway. I'm a bit sad that the U.S. embassy is even "evaluating" but perhaps there will some other type of statement. Hopefully, if there are changes they will give some notice.

This particular subject was brought up many years ago and they basically told me what their website says that they won't provide :

 

Authentication, certification, or certified copies of public documents issued in the U.S. such as birth, residency, marriage, divorce, and death certificates; commercial records, driver’s license, and other credentials. Such documents must be authenticated in the U.S. for use overseas;

 

They basically say that it is not their job to certify these documents and without certified documents they cannot certify that the information contained in the Income Affidavit is correct, hence the sworn notarized declaration.  Makes sense to me!

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

We've had reports here of such rejections and no reports of acceptance without the letter.

The British embassy does NOT design Thai immigration policies.

Go ahead and try it. 

Fair enough. I am doing my (marriage) extension in the next couple of months, but by the lump sum method, however I was considering going to the income route next year. I will see what I can find out when I go this time though.

[sjeng]

The Dutch ambassy stopped with the income statement in 2016.

Heavy critics ftom the Dutch expads and sending letters to the Dutch ministry of foreign affairs and the Dutch parlement did them turn around again.

Now we get a so called "visa support letter" in which they confirm a yearly income.

But only for income from a Dutch sourse, as pension, life insurance, aso.

[Starship Trooper]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:10 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Earlier this week the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok confirmed no change to its current process..."

 

Great to be Canadian, eh?

 

My sympathies to the Brits and the Yanks...

 

 

We are well used to the ZERO HELP provided by the British  Embassy in BKK over the many years!

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

what alternative pathways - speak for yourself, I personally know people who rely on this facility for their 12 month extension, some get income from renting property and others have pensions, investments or a combination, not all can get their hands on the cash to put in a Thai bank for three months, what do you suppose they do ? sell their properties or liquidate their assets

you are talking nonsense 

The alternative pathway come January for those who do not have immediate access to the lump sum will be to use an agent.

[Starship Trooper]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:29 PM, darksidedog said:

If they have known about it since May, why are they only telling us about it now? Having to move chunks of money from the UK to Thailand , to sit in a local account, at a time when the exchange rate is particularly poor so as to suddenly have money in place, is not funny. The Embassy seems to be finding it harder and harder to provide the services it has been able to do previously. It is close to the point where it is pointless them being there at all.

The British Embassy in BKK , in fact the British "Embassies " in every country I have stayed in , have been ZERO HELP. 

[granuaile]

15 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Evaluating does not sound good when others eg oz and Germany have made proactive announcements they won't be changing anything.

So now USA citizens will walk on egg shells for a few months

No, it doesn't sound good. I'm pretty sure they won't cut it off abruptly, but it's pretty clear they are considering options (one of which may be ending it).

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

Haha. Allowed.

 

But I understand their position. If somebody goes to BE with official-looking documentation purporting to prove that the holder is receiving  pensions from 5 different companies in 5 different countries, speaking 5 different languages, into 5 different bank accounts in 5 different currencies,  how can can the British Embassy be expected to verify that he really is receiving those pensions? It's not their job.

 

If the German Embassy is really verifying everything, then that is very impressive.

Several years ago I went to Pattaya on a short trip with the missus, I noticed an advert where an Austrian consul would verify income for EU nationals, thinking this would save me a trip into Bangkok to verify my documents which I intended to do after a few days in Pattaya I went and saw him. When he saw my British passport he looked at me with horror,Not for British people he said, "'I have been warned verbally and by letter from the British embassy not to service Brits,that is their responsibility''. So I went to the British consul, two rented tables in a cafe, say's it all, he told me my documents would have to be translated into English they would be sent to Bangkok to the embassy who would further them on with the originals to London where they would be, in his experience, rejected. I went to the German embassy in Bangkok, 15 to 20 minuets after entering the building I had my letter. The BE is a waste of space, I can well believe that they need a smaller embassy. 

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

Several years ago I went to Pattaya on a short trip with the missus, I noticed an advert where an Austrian consul would verify income for EU nationals, thinking this would save me a trip into Bangkok to verify my documents which I intended to do after a few days in Pattaya I went and saw him. When he saw my British passport he looked at me with horror,Not for British people he said, "'I have been warned verbally and by letter from the British embassy not to service Brits,that is their responsibility''. So I went to the British consul, two rented tables in a cafe, say's it all, he told me my documents would have to be translated into English they would be sent to Bangkok to the embassy who would further them on with the originals to London where they would be, in his experience, rejected. I went to the German embassy in Bangkok, 15 to 20 minuets after entering the building I had my letter. The BE is a waste of space, I can well believe that they need a smaller embassy. 

What may or may not have been possible several years ago concerning financial documentation is becoming tighter further down the road. Also, for a UK national popping into the German Embassy for assistance post-Brexit, well that should be an interesting experience.

[smedly]

19 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The alternative pathway come January for those who do not have immediate access to the lump sum will be to use an agent.

so you are now advising people the break the law, you are a real star and you are trolling

[flipside555]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

he told me my documents would have to be translated into English they would be sent to Bangkok to the embassy who would further them on with the originals to London where they would be, in his experience, rejected.

Yes. All of my encounters with them have been frustrating and I try to avoid dealing with them when I can.

 

Reading between the lines of this latest statement, it sounds as though there might have been a standoff at the meeting. The Thais saying the BE has to verify, and the BE saying that it can't. So the BE announces that it will no longer issue the letters. Theoretically, that should put pressure on the Thais to make it clear what is expected of all embassies.  But I'm not holding my breath for that.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

What may or may not have been possible several years ago concerning financial documentation is becoming tighter further down the road. Also, for a UK national popping into the German Embassy for assistance post-Brexit, well that should be an interesting experience.

I don't see why, my pension is German and is paid into a German bank account, my nationality shouldn't be be of concern, they are merely confirming that I receive funds from Germany, I could be from Timbuktu for all they care.

[SheungWan]

Just now, smedly said:

so you are now advising people the break the law, you are a real star and you are trolling

Those who neither wish to use the deposit route or use an agency will be a relatively small group. Of them, those who haven't burned their boats can consider annually returning to their home countries and getting a visa there.

[SheungWan]

Just now, soalbundy said:

I don't see why, my pension is German and is paid into a German bank account, my nationality shouldn't be be of concern, they are merely confirming that I receive funds from Germany, I could be from Timbuktu for all they care.

How each country manages Thai requirements is a sovereign matter.

[Thaidream]

The US Embassy has always had a disclaimer on their website that indicates any notarized affidavit is signed in front of the Consul and while the Embassy cannot verify the veracity of what is stated- it is a Federal Offense- a felony to lie under Oath.

 

To me- the solution to the issue  is to keep the same  process and on the Letter itself- state the following-

A.  The Embassy  is not verifying the applicant's statement but verifying their identity.

B.   The applicant has taken  an Oath that the information is true under penalty of perjury.

 

I believe the above statements on the letter itself is enough to solve the issue.  If the Thai Imm has doubts still-they can ask for added proof.  

 

Many years ago when I did the income route- there was not a pre printed form other than an Affadavit Form- One wrote out their income amount and source.... At that time  the Us Consul  had the  applicant raise their arm and  stated-  Do you swear under penalty of perjury that the statement you have made is true to the best of your knowledge.   You answered  in the affirmative.  The  Consul  had you sign; the consul signed and placed the embossed Seal and date.

 

IMHO-  adding the disclaimer and the penalty for lying on the form solves most issues.

 

 

[Just Weird]

Bearing in mind the slagging-off and ridicule that is dished out to the British Embassy in Bangkok on a tediously, regular basis, by regularly tedious members (you know who you are), I'd bet that the staff there (who, I'm sure, keep an eye on what is said here) will be wetting themselves laughing at the panicking members who now would like to plead with them for some assistance!  And I wouldn't blame the Embassy staff at all!  Hahaha!!

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, smedly said:

so you are now advising people the break the law, you are a real star and you are trolling

A possible legal alternative would be to get a credit for 3 months for the amount needed in a blocked account, ie. you can't remove any money from the account, safety for the bank, and just pay interest. Pure speculation on my part, I don't know if this is feasible.

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

Yes. All of my encounters with them have been frustrating and I try to avoid dealing with them when I can.

Reading between the lines of this latest statement, it sounds as though there might have been a standoff at the meeting. The Thais saying the BE has to verify, and the BE saying that it can't. So the BE announces that it will no longer issue the letters. Theoretically, that should put pressure on the Thais to make it clear what is expected of all embassies.  But I'm not holding my breath for that.

Thailand have made it clear that they wish the Embassies to verify their nationals' income. The UK has said that it no longer can comply with that request. Speculating any wiggle room in the middle, well maybe.

[flipside555]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

To me- the solution to the issue  is to keep the same  process and on the Letter itself- state the following-

A.  The Embassy  is not verifying the applicant's statement but verifying their identity.

B.   The applicant has taken  an Oath that the information is true under penalty of perjury.

 

I believe the above statements on the letter itself is enough to solve the issue. 

The problem is that that the British Embassy says that it has been told that it must verify. 

[flipside555]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Speculating any wiggle room in the middle, well maybe.

My guess is that this is an issue about the wiggle room. In the past the Thais took the British letter to mean that they had verified, and the BE knew that it hadn't verified. Now, for whatever reason, the issue has come to a head.  It's no longer possible for the Thais to take the letter to mean one thing, and the BE to take it to mean another.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

The problem is that that the British Embassy says that it has been told that it must verify. 

Perhaps, but just as the British don't make Thai immigration policy, the Thais don't have the power over what letters the British issue, or don't issue. They could still issue the letters and then the ball would be in Thai immigration's court. In the case of U.S. applicants, they're asking for more evidence, which they've always had the power to do anyway. 

[Thaidream]

12 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

Reading between the lines of this latest statement, it sounds as though there might have been a standoff at the meeting. The Thais saying the BE has to verify, and the BE saying that it can't. So the BE announces that it will no longer issue the letters. Theoretically, that should put pressure on the Thais to make it clear what is expected of all embassies.  But I'm not holding my breath for that.

Instead of causing a ruckus- I would have told the Thai officials what could be done legally under British Law  and continue to issue the same letter with a disclaimer and  if an Oath is taken- indicate on the form the penalty for lying.

 

In this day and age- anything can possibly be forged-  However- there is a penalty  of some type. if caught.    If the Thais feel their is some issue with the documentation ask for the proof. Any legitimate pensioner or applicant can easily provide a paper trail for their income unless the income is illegal.  If I am not mistaken-lying to the Thai police is a criminal offense. If they think the proof is forged- they can send the docs to their forensic department and investigate- If forgeries or fake- take action against that person.

 

 

[flipside555]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

They could still issue the letters and then the ball would be in Thai immigration's court.

I hope they do that, or even better issue affidavits as the Americans do. But it's difficult to see them taking that route now they have stated publicly that the Thais require verification and they will therefore no longer issue the letters.

[flipside555]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Instead of causing a ruckus- I would have told the Thai officials what could be done legally under British Law  and continue to issue the same letter with a disclaimer and  if an Oath is taken- indicate on the form the penalty for lying.

That sounds like a good plan. I vote for you to be appointed as chief adviser to the BE. ????

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, flipside555 said:

My guess is that this is an issue about the wiggle room. In the past the Thais took the British letter to mean that they had verified, and the BE knew that it hadn't verified. Now, for whatever reason, the issue has come to a head.  It's no longer possible for the Thais to take the letter to mean one thing, and the BE to take it to mean another.

The verification is is now considered an actual requirement by the UK and they are now declining. Difficult to find the wiggle room in that with a background of tightening international financial procedures.

[flipside555]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

The verification is is now considered an actual requirement by the UK and they are now declining. Difficult to find the wiggle room in that...

Exactly.

Edited October 12, 2018 by flipside555

[Thaidream]

9 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

The problem is that that the British Embassy says that it has been told that it must verify.

I don't know what was said but I seriously doubt that  anyone on the Thai  side used the term 'must'-  and if they did  I would have stated my position and indicated  the letters would still be issued as usual and then it would be up to Thailand to decide if they will ask the applicant for added info or proof.