I don't understand the logic of Thai Immigration

[FigaroLucowski]

I have lived in Thailand for 18 yrs. I own property in Chiang Mai, I make well over 65k baht from rents from my properties here. Of course, as all of you know, immigration now requires bank verification of your income. This was no problem for me until I found out today that your income has to come from a source outside of Thailand. I have lived here so long and I'm too old to move. I have 9 days to put 800k together, not enough time to sell a property, but I will put the money together.  My question is, why isn't income made in Thailand considered to be viable income by Thai immigration?  

Edited October 11, 2018 by FigaroLucowski
typo

[Lizard2010]

Who told you this!

Plus sorry to ask from what country

As there seems to be a lot of thing going around about Income Proof

Some seem to be incorrect

Maybe someone could clasrifie

Maybe its a Chaing Mai thing again

 

[FigaroLucowski]

thank u for the kind reply, I'm from the USA, they told me this at OS Thai visa, the agent i have been using

 

[NCC1701A]

30 minutes ago, FigaroLucowski said:

My question is, why isn't income made in Thailand considered to be viable income by Thai immigration?   

do that mean you are working in Thailand? just asking because they may have a problem with the concept of working and being retired at the same time.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by NCC1701A

[Peterw42]

OP, as of today, nothing has changed, you are panicking over nothing

Besides the UK embassy discontinuing income letter next year, there have been no changes , you may have to show bank verification for your income and that income does not have to come from outside Thailand. 

How did you verify your income last year ? Whatever you did last year still applies today. If further proof is required, you have the income to show them.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Peterw42

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

do that mean you are working in Thailand? just asking because they may have a problem with the concept of working and being retired.

 

Op states that he gets rent from thai properties

 

[Jingthing]

I think the OP does have a real problem.

In CM, the USA consulate is issuing income letters.

However Thai immigration is demanding backup evidence from Americans of the stated income upon application.

So would Thai immigration accept evidence of rental income in Thailand as such evidence?

I would presume no but of course I'm not sure.

As far as raising 800K it will need to be seasoned for three months before the application date so if that isn't possible, that won't work either. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, FigaroLucowski said:

thank u for the kind reply, I'm from the USA, they told me this at OS Thai visa, the agent i have been using

 

Perhaps you should consider changing your agent. Your bank statements show funds coming in. AFAIK the source is immaterial. Perhaps Ubon Joe can confirm.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps you should consider changing your agent. Your bank statements show funds coming in. AFAIK the source is immaterial. Perhaps Ubon Joe can confirm.

Income based applications are not based on income coming in. Technically income based applications aren't required to import even one baht, much less a full 65K per month. They're based on showing evidence (classically a letter) that the income exists without going into details about what that income is. Obviously pensions and passive income from rentals abroad would be clearly OK. In Thailand rentals might not be OK. I presume if immigration is challenging an application, they ARE going to ask about the source of the stated income, especially when an attempt is made showing it as domestic coded deposits. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[flipside555]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

In CM, the USA consulate is issuing income letters.

However Thai immigration is demanding backup evidence from Americans of the stated income upon application.

 

That's interesting. Do you have any more info on it?

[Jingthing]

Just now, flipside555 said:

That's interesting. Do you have any more info on it?

No. I am not in CM but there have been several reports about this in recent months. I don't know if they're doing it with all American income based applications but based on the number of reports, I would assume it's a strong possibility. 

[FigaroLucowski]

41 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

do that mean you are working in Thailand? just asking because they may have a problem with the concept of working and being retired at the same time.

 

no im not working in thailand i make my income from property rentals in the city

 

[FigaroLucowski]

8 minutes ago, flipside555 said:

That's interesting. Do you have any more info on it?

im researching it now... so far two agents have said CM immigration will only accept income from abroad

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, FigaroLucowski said:

im researching it now... so far two agents have said CM immigration will only accept income from abroad

 

I wish you the best of luck. It's hard to imagine the stress of such a situation. I know there are many people on retirement extensions doing exactly as you have, getting and claiming Thai based rental income. I am also curious about whether outing this situation would get you (and others) into jeopardy over what might be seen as working in Thailand on the wrong type extension and no work permit. 

 

I have no further advice. If it was me I might be moved to just go in there myself and BEG for one more extension because you've been doing it that way for so long, just as a humane thing for you to prepare to change your situation for later (or sell out and leave Thailand). But I wouldn't suggest that you do that as Thai immigration isn't known for responding to sob stories.

 

Maybe you need a lawyer? 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[Vacuum]

42 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So would Thai immigration accept evidence of rental income in Thailand as such evidence?

 

Why not, if he has a WP and pay tax ?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Vacuum said:

 

Why not, if he has a WP and pay tax ?

He's on retirement extensions. It isn't legal to work on those. So it's a good guess he doesn't have a work permit!

[Vacuum]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He's on retirement extensions. It isn't legal to work on those. So it's a good guess he doesn't have a work permit!

 

Yes that was my point. He owns several properties, which he rent out for a profit. His main problem should be to stay out of jail or get deported and blacklisted.

[namatjira]

What <deleted> abound......you are legally entitled to rent out your property.......taxation on that is minimal....kicks in at 150,000 baht per year only.........the last thing you need is a lawyer and the last thing you need is to listen to fools in Thai visa....

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

 

Yes that was my point. He owns several properties, which he rent out for a profit. His main problem should be to stay out of jail or get deported and blacklisted.

Out of my area of knowledge. Maybe someone has ideas that can help even if by PM.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, namatjira said:

What <deleted> abound......you are legally entitled to rent out your property.......taxation on that is minimal....kicks in at 150,000 baht per year only.........the last thing you need is a lawyer and the last thing you need is to listen to fools in Thai visa....

Perhaps but agents are telling him they can't help him get a new retirement extension. You got any wise guy suggestions to solve that? I do agree shouldn't take advice from people that clearly don't know. On the rentals thing, I don't know and openly admit it. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[FigaroLucowski]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, as of today, nothing has changed, you are panicking over nothing

Besides the UK embassy discontinuing income letter next year, there have been no changes , you may have to show bank verification for your income and that income does not have to come from outside Thailand. 

How did you verify your income last year ? Whatever you did last year still applies today. If further proof is required, you have the income to show them.

last year immigration didn't require proof of income, so i just got a notary ..proof of income from the US consulate. i have called 3 agents in chiang mai and they all say that immigration only accepts income made abroad for the retirement visa

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, FigaroLucowski said:

last year immigration didn't require proof of income, so i just got a notary ..proof of income from the US consulate. i have called 3 agents in chiang mai and they all say that immigration only accepts income made abroad for the retirement visa

 

In Pattaya we have agents that do 800K baht applications. Can't say more. Not in Chiang Mai?

[FigaroLucowski]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Out of my area of knowledge. Maybe someone has ideas that can help even if by PM.

go to jail for renting properties in thailand as a farang?

[jak2002003]

'Logic'?  You know we are living in Thailand, right?  

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, FigaroLucowski said:

go to jail for renting properties in thailand as a farang?

I certainly hope not! Really, don't ask me about rentals. All I do know is many people are doing it.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, FigaroLucowski said:

go to jail for renting properties in thailand as a farang?

Not if the income is declared and tax paid, in Thailand.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Op states that he gets rent from thai properties

 

Renting out property as business is working and you need to pay tax. Working on a retirement visa isn't allowed.

[FritsSikkink]

35 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

 

Why not, if he has a WP and pay tax ?

you don't get a work permit on a retirement visa

[OneMoreFarang]

You live here for 18 years and you still look for logic which obviously does not exist in Thailand.

How did you survive the last 18 years?

[Vacuum]

6 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Not if the income is declared and tax paid, in Thailand.

 

Renting ot properties (as in more than one) with a retirement extension, I don't think so.