Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, ginjag said:

44 pages, and no one has an update.  So,  If the Immigration office cannot make the UK Embassy issue, then it will have to draw up an alternative.   (1) accept a UK bank statement with the direct debit entered monthly  example latest 3 month statements to arrive at your Thai address. Because the postage envelope also helps to verify.  OR   (2) only allow 800,000 in a Thai bank account deposited 3 months prior to Immigration reporting date.

The IO doesn't HAVE to do anything, no letter, no extension. They aren't going to have two systems, one for Brits and another for the rest and I can't see them caving in to the BE and changing their system for everybody. It will be the letter or 400k/800k, remains to be seen if they will compromise with the combination, eg, 200k in the bank and 200k with bank statements only but then that would beg the question why not just bank statements for everybody.

[ginjag]

8 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

See now, you vented and got your opinions lodged on this thread, basically repeating what's already been said for 44 pages, and after you called for a close to this topic! 

 

Also, FYI, no use addressing Thai Immigration directly here; they aren't likely to read it.  But still, feels good, doesn't it?  ????

Sorry did not repeat, only a handful,  Because of no end to the topic and 500 posts I thought it was sensible and added my last post to hope it could simplify things.  NEVER dreamed the Immigration office would read , never addressed them directly.    So what are you on here for to pick at posters points to win brownie points, have another beer.  Thanks teacher for pointing out what a silly poster I am   lol

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, ginjag said:

So,  If the Immigration office cannot make the UK Embassy issue, then it will have to draw up an alternative.

Why will they have to do that? No chance of them doing anything. It's not them that have changed things.

[soalbundy]

I have a question because ginjag mentioned having statements coming from the UK, isn't a screengrab from my internet banking account enough proof ?

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Why will they have to do that? No chance of them doing anything. It's not them that have changed things.

Immigration will NOT have to do that.   Immigration will  normally try to keep it's ex pats on board, Udon employ ex number of people to cater for the daily needs, if it loses 50 % of ex pats because embassy refuses to verify some staff will be out of work.    I was merely trying to point out without the embassy be ing involved the immigration have choices, either lose the non 800k punters, and only retain the full payers......We all know who it will affect and who it won't.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

I have a question because ginjag mentioned having statements coming from the UK, isn't a screengrab from my internet banking account enough proof ?

I download them as PDF files and print them off, in colour, on decent quality paper. Would pass as originals to a Thai.

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I have a question because ginjag mentioned having statements coming from the UK, isn't a screengrab from my internet banking account enough proof ?

Thailand seems to not like print-outs from printers, this is why I have my statements arrive by post to verify the post date and non copy printout.

[billd766]

14 hours ago, Torrens54 said:

Up to you.

No one is FORCING you to stay here !

OK then I will leave and return to the UK,on the condition that YOU personally support my family.

[ginjag]

Just now, Spidey said:

I download them as PDF files and print them off, in colour, on decent quality paper. Would pass as originals to a Thai.

No airmail envelope,   it is a big help,.....but until clarification from the Immigration no one can do anything apart from the punter who has 800k in the bank.  if immigration do not act,  embassy verification is stopped,  therefore nothing can be produced to them it will mean that a big % will have to do the out of Thai border and consulate 90 day job again

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

Immigration will NOT have to do that.   Immigration will  normally try to keep it's ex pats on board, Udon employ ex number of people to cater for the daily needs, if it loses 50 % of ex pats because embassy refuses to verify some staff will be out of work.    I was merely trying to point out without the embassy be ing involved the immigration have choices, either lose the non 800k punters, and only retain the full payers......We all know who it will affect and who it won't.

Wouldn't lose anything like 50% of it's expats and they'd be the ones who they make the least from. The ones who pay agents to falsify bank accounts are Immigration's honey pot and the changes don't affect them, in fact, it will almost certainly increase their number considerably. 

 

On hearing the changes, immigration officers around the country were heard to shout, "Whoopee! Who's got the number of a Mercedes dealer?"

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

I download them as PDF files and print them off, in colour, on decent quality paper. Would pass as originals to a Thai.

I've tried doing that but the bank website doesn't allow for this option, I can do a print version or a screenshot in colour but what I meant was would the IO say they want 12 original monthly bank statements showing income with a bank stamp on each as verification ? 12 monthly statements for 2019 for someone doing their extension in October would be impossible anyway unless they did September 2018 t0 September 2019, tangled webs here. 

[Spidey]

Just now, soalbundy said:

I've tried doing that but the bank website doesn't allow for this option, I can do a print version or a screenshot in colour but what I meant was would the IO say they want 12 original monthly bank statements showing income with a bank stamp on each as verification ? 12 monthly statements for 2019 for someone doing their extension in October would be impossible anyway unless they did September 2018 t0 September 2019, tangled webs here. 

The IO don't want any UK bank statements from you and nor are they ever likely to.

[ginjag]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Wouldn't lose anything like 50% of it's expats and they'd be the ones who they make the least from. The ones who pay agents to falsify bank accounts are Immigration's honey pot and the changes don't affect them, in fact, it will almost certainly increase their number considerably. 

 

On hearing the changes, immigration officers around the country were heard to shout, "Whoopee! Who's got the number of a Mercedes dealer?"

If 50% had to revert to the non 0 visa example Laos overnight stay, Thai gains on transport costs immigration 90 visa, x 4 border runs in the year and other hidden expenses if % of Laos visa is given back to Thai  ??   The gain for the 50% if any is having all that free money not tied to a Thai bank,    argument is who loses most. ??  personally I do as my 10 year passport gets full after 3/4 years.......

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

The IO don't want any UK bank statements from you and nor are they ever likely to.

True, mine are all in German anyway so the bank would charge me for the statements and I would have to get them translated from a recognized translation office, crap all round.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, ginjag said:

If 50% had to revert to the non 0 visa example Laos overnight stay, Thai gains on transport costs immigration 90 visa, x 4 border runs in the year and other hidden expenses if % of Laos visa is given back to Thai  ??   The gain for the 50% if any is having all that free money not tied to a Thai bank,    argument is who loses most. ??  personally I do as my 10 year passport gets full after 3/4 years.......

I thought visa runs had been abolished.

[Expattaff1308]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The IO don't want any UK bank statements from you and nor are they ever likely to.

If Bank Statements become acceptable I think it would be Thai Statements they would be more interested in.

They may agree that a Bank letter similar to the 400/800k letter stating Mr Expat has deposited ***Baht into his Thai Bank Account over the last 12 months totaling *** Baht which equates to 40/65k per month.

However until such time as Immigration say what is acceptable, and I think as the BE so effectively dropped us in it so should be negotiating with them, everything is speculation.

  

Edited October 15, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The IO don't want any UK bank statements from you and nor are they ever likely to.

That's fine, no problem,   Embassy stops verifying, Immigration not allowing statements,    leaves near 1 option 800k or bye ???

If it does not get sorted, I will certainly opt for the laos 90 day non immigrant,   4 timmes yearly  spend an evening in a Laos hotel,  shopping in Nongkai on return and re-new my passport 4 times in 10 years, have 500k+ to do as I wish, and travel  more

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

If 50% had to revert to the non 0 visa example Laos overnight stay, Thai gains on transport costs immigration 90 visa, x 4 border runs in the year and other hidden expenses if % of Laos visa is given back to Thai  ??   The gain for the 50% if any is having all that free money not tied to a Thai bank,    argument is who loses most. ??  personally I do as my 10 year passport gets full after 3/4 years.......

That's the least likely scenario of all. Those who can't secure an income letter (way less than 50% of expats),

will either legitimately show 800k baht in their Thai bank account for 3 months, or do it illegitimately via an agent.

 

I filled my UK passport in 5 years. When I renewed it I got a larger (48 page) passport.

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

That's fine, no problem,   Embassy stops verifying, Immigration not allowing statements,    leaves near 1 option 800k or bye ???

If it does not get sorted, I will certainly opt for the laos 90 day non immigrant,   4 timmes yearly  spend an evening in a Laos hotel,  shopping in Nongkai on return and re-new my passport 4 times in 10 years, have 500k+ to do as I wish, and travel  more

You're talking like you would lose the 800k. You can start spending it as soon as you have your visa extension.

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

That's the least likely scenario of all. Those who can't secure an income letter (way less than 50% of expats),

will either legitimately show 800k baht in their Thai bank account for 3 months, or do it illegitimately via an agent.

 

I filled my UK passport in 5 years. When I renewed it I got a larger (48 page) passport.

I always had a 48 page one,      90 to laos-------  1 page Laos, 1 page Thai, 1 page for entry and exit stamps.  added any extra tours away.    Having read what agent is legit  ??

your guess is way less than 50%, if not show me,   talking to a friend in Udon immigration more than 50% are on the verify embassy job.. OK

[Esso49]

Just thought of a new twist, not previously mentioned I think.

 

How about that Thai Immigration accepts Thai bank statements that show that expenditure to Thai companies is more than 400/800 k per year . Apart from payments by debit card to say Tesco.Central/Hotels etc  it could also include Thai credit card payments, mortgage payments if applicable,  fuel etc.  Of course cash withdrawals would need to be excluded.  This would show that the applicant had spent the requisite amount in Thailand, to Thai companies within the last year.  Just an idea that would demonstrate that the money is being spent in Thailand.

[Thaidream]

12 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The IO don't want any UK bank statements from you and nor are they ever likely to.

Not correct- I have been asked to prove my income by an IO- I showed US Printouts from my US bank account which showed deposits in of my pension; Amounts of debits along with the statement showing exact Thai ATM locations as well as my pension letters with letterheads and also showed him the 4 plus ATM cards from US Banks.  Completely accepted as proof.

 

In addition- some Americans using the CM office are asked each day to show proof of income- They show the same thing I did and was accepted.

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You're talking like you would lose the 800k. You can start spending it as soon as you have your visa extension.

I do not have the 800k or I would not post here about the Laos option---please read,  I said the 5/6k I would be free to get a high interest rate and spend at will   Understand my friend

[Spidey]

Just now, Thaidream said:

Not correct- I have been asked to prove my income by an IO- I showed US Printouts from my US bank account which showed deposits in of my pension; Amounts of debits along with the statement showing exact Thai ATM locations as well as my pension letters with letterheads and also showed him the 4 plus ATM cards from US Banks.  Completely accepted as proof.

 

In addition- some Americans using the CM office are asked each day to show proof of income- They show the same thing I did and was accepted.

Doesn't happen with Brits who have an income letter from the British Embassy and this topic is about British expats and the problems they're having with the British Embassy. Not Americans and the problems they're having with CM IO and their affidavits.

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

I do not have the 800k or I would not post here about the Laos option---please read,  I said the 5/6k I would be free to get a high interest rate and spend at will   Understand my friend

Just pay an agent to get you one through the back door, 20k. Understand my friend.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Just thought of a new twist, not previously mentioned I think.

 

How about that Thai Immigration accepts Thai bank statements that show that expenditure to Thai companies is more than 400/800 k per year . Apart from payments by debit card to say Tesco.Central/Hotels etc  it could also include Thai credit card payments, mortgage payments if applicable,  fuel etc.  Of course cash withdrawals would need to be excluded.  This would show that the applicant had spent the requisite amount in Thailand, to Thai companies within the last year.  Just an idea that would demonstrate that the money is being spent in Thailand.

That's unworkable, too much adding up,too much paperwork and I suspect that many, like me, use cash from the ATM, if you live away from big towns only cash is king. 

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Just pay an agent to get you one through the back door, 20k. Understand my friend.

Understand but I do not trust these agents, I would if the immigration gave me the contacts, I would certainly do it........agents sound dodgy---and MAYBE  some are problematic.....as stated on this topic so many times.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Doesn't happen with Brits who have an income letter from the British Embassy and this topic is about British expats and the problems they're having with the British Embassy. Not Americans and the problems they're having with CM IO and their affidavits

The point I am trying to make is that if they would accept other proof from American Applicants such as bank statements; pension letters etc why would they discriminate against British Applicants.

 One of the services the BE indicated she was going to perform in the interview given to Mr Dee was that the BE rep was going to go back to Thai Imm and also travel to Pattaya to explain their position on the letter.  Would you not expect that your BE rep also explain that British Banks provide Bank printouts; that British citizens get pension letters; that British citizens carry foreign ATM cards etc etc? This is the exact evidence British citizens were presenting to the BE as 'proof' of monthly income/  Since BE isrefusing to do the letter Thai Imm wants- I would think they could assist their citizens by explaining and even showing examples of other documentation-

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Just pay an agent to get you one through the back door, 20k. Understand my friend.

That is probably the only viable option until IO kills it but on the other hand if they are getting kickbacks from the agent (no corruption here, just business) why should they stop it, prices will go up and so will the kickbacks.

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

Understand but I do not trust these agents, I would if the immigration gave me the contacts, I would certainly do it........agents sound dodgy---and MAYBE  some are problematic.....as stated on this topic so many times.

I have heard of people who have been given the contact for these agents from an IO.

 

I needed a dodge for a completely different reason and the IO dealing with me, leaned into me and whispered, "just go to Key Visa and they will solve your problem".