Void Without Prejudice SETV from Phnom Penh Embassy.

[thecyclist]

1 hour ago, jrjrjr said:

 

 

This is what I didn't understand. How stupid is it to cancel a visa after putting it in passport ?!

 

Or it is just a way to keep your visa fee ?!

 

 

 

 

 

It is immensely stupid :Probably explainable by the inner workings of this exceptionally weird PP embassy :A travel agent in PP who I have been going through for over 12 years explained that the Cambodian ladies working at the front desk get 'tipped' by them and are on the applicants side(which I believe as when I was called for an interview they coached me what /what not to to say to say to their Thai boss. The front desk puts the sticker in, hands it to to the Thai consul to sign, and knowing the Thai penchant for asserting their authority by occasionally disrupting things, will pick few passports out of the bunch and cancel/void them. 

[dennis123]

11 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

It is immensely stupid :Probably explainable by the inner workings of this exceptionally weird PP embassy :A travel agent in PP who I have been going through for over 12 years explained that the Cambodian ladies working at the front desk get 'tipped' by them and are on the applicants side(which I believe as when I was called for an interview they coached me what /what not to to say to say to their Thai boss. The front desk puts the sticker in, hands it to to the Thai consul to sign, and knowing the Thai penchant for asserting their authority by occasionally disrupting things, will pick few passports out of the bunch and cancel/void them. 

He is a rude jerk, always throwing my passport at me without looking. He hates foreigners, I'm 100% sure of that.

[swineninety9]

On 10/20/2018 at 7:00 PM, lkv said:

@Huayrat

 

Despite all these reports, some of which are fake. Yes, there was this guy yesterday on a Facebook group trying to convince us it's all doom and gloom in Phnom Pehn, when in fact his wife got rejected due to the lack of an exit ticket, having had a bus ticket that did not clearly specify Thailand. So he was just making things up when he was saying "everybody gets voided".

 

So I do not think you are speculating with Phnom Pehn IF:

 

1. You have all the documents in order.

2. You go via an agent.

3. You never had an SETV from there.

 

I will underline the importance of an agent, at a cost of 5 to 10 dollars. Going into the Embassy alone is not recommended, because they do receive kickbacks from agents these officials, so they will scrutinise a solo application more. (corruption).

 

So again, to get rid of the doom and gloom, I strongly believe that people getting voided without prejudice are either missing some documentation or walking into the Embassy by themselves.

I wish I would have known, problem is all these tips and tricks are not really written anywhere. I spent like a week doing research to make sure I had everything in order and getting all the paperwork together in phnom Penh because of the Holidays so I was sure I would be ok. Then BAM shutdown. I would have used an agent had I known that was a thing in Phnom Penh.

 

So I'm just flying in to get an Visa Exempt. Can you guys prepare me for EVERYTHING I need to pass through Immigration.

 

>20k baht or equivalent. $609 USD.

>Exit FLIGHT

>Proof of Hotel Booking

>Passport Valid 6 Months

 

I'm going to Bangkok then CM as I had no idea to avoid Bangkok IO's. They looked pretty hardcore first time I went thorugh but I had a METV that time.

 

Anything else? First born son maybe?

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

I wish I would have known, problem is all these tips and tricks are not really written anywhere. I spent like a week doing research to make sure I had everything in order and getting all the paperwork together in phnom Penh because of the Holidays so I was sure I would be ok. Then BAM shutdown. I would have used an agent had I known that was a thing in Phnom Penh.

The info you needed is written many places - but not well-consolidated.  The way website monetization works does not reward info being laid-out in an easy "drill down" / FAQ fashion, unfortunately. 

 

As well, people from Western countries don't generally have experience with "little fiefdom style" divisions of bureaucracies - where the rules are not consistent from one office to the next, and that these "rules" will change rapidly over time, without notice.  The stamp you got at PP is a "new development" - though the need for agents is old-news.

 

Quote

So I'm just flying in to get an Visa Exempt. Can you guys prepare me for EVERYTHING I need to pass through Immigration.

 

>20k baht or equivalent. $609 USD.

>Exit FLIGHT

>Proof of Hotel Booking

>Passport Valid 6 Months

 

I'm going to Bangkok then CM as I had no idea to avoid Bangkok IO's. They looked pretty hardcore first time I went thorugh but I had a METV that time.

 

Anything else? First born son maybe?

Your list is fine.  In theory, you would be fine.  But the problem is, we have reports of IOs at Bangkok airports telling people about rules that don't exist (or are not published) about "total time in country," then rejecting-entry, and then stamping something related to one's financial-status (not the rule they just claimed exists) as the "official" reason for denial in their passport.

 

They tend to examine every page of a passport when you enter.  You will be flying in with a Voided Visa staring the IO in the face, which doesn't help your odds.  I would try to put that into perspective as, "I tried to do the right thing and get a TR Visa."  As to they "why they rejected" - maybe claim you didn't know they wanted money-proof, and then show the IO a thick stack of cash - as in thousands of USD.

 

If it were me, I would enter by land.  If I had to fly (actually, I wouldn't come at all in that case, but...), I'd buy VIP express service, have a printout of an itinerary of places you plan to go in Thailand on this visit and where your outgoing air-ticket leads, and carry as much cash as I could lay my hands on, to "helpfully show" an IO the minute they began asking questions (given they are known to ignore bank-statement evidence, etc). 

 

On 10/18/2018 at 3:55 AM, swineninety9 said:

I have years of savings so plane ticket no  problem. 

One of the fields on their rejection-form is the cash-amount you have - so perhaps make that number so large, they would look foolish to be rejecting-entry.  One trick reported used with some, is not to ask about the cash, then reject on "not enough money" - so best to make sure they see you have $5K USD or similar in cash - but without being "arrogant seeming" about it (not an easy needle to thread).

 

None of this is any guarantee - and they might just stamp you through without a word (maybe their detention-cells are full / quota reached, or the IO you get is a good one) - but is the best I can offer for flying into a hornet's nest.

[lkv]

6 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

Then BAM shutdown.

There's no shut down. Phnom Pehn processes many passports. Sometimes as many as 1,000 or more a day, hence the need of a special announcement in reference to waiting time.

 

[swineninety9]

4 hours ago, lkv said:

There's no shut down. Phnom Pehn processes many passports. Sometimes as many as 1,000 or more a day, hence the need of a special announcement in reference to waiting time.

 

I was just using a method of speech. When I said shutdown I mean I was shutdown not the whole office. Now THAT would be news ????

[lkv]

13 minutes ago, swineninety9 said:

I was just using a method of speech. When I said shutdown I mean I was shutdown not the whole office. Now THAT would be news ????

I know, I just want to minimise a bit this paranoia about Phnom Pehn in light of a few recent threads. I got two from them this year (with a clean passport). If you follow the format it's a good place to apply, unless you have 11 SETVs in your passport like the guy that posted the above pics on Facebook, that I reattached here, being advised that, should he apply, he would probably lose his 40 dollars. And that was by Embassy front line staff, he went direct.

 

They actually count all visas (from other Consulates or Embassies also), and apparently the way it works is, the front desk staff puts the sticker, then the Consul signs it later. Or voids it in some cases, or requests an interview with the applicant, and I have read reports in the past of that happening also.

[swineninety9]

16 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The info you needed is written many places - but not well-consolidated.  The way website monetization works does not reward info being laid-out in an easy "drill down" / FAQ fashion, unfortunately. 

 

Your list is fine.  In theory, you would be fine.  But the problem is, we have reports of IOs at Bangkok airports telling people about rules that don't exist (or are not published) about "total time in country," then rejecting-entry, and then stamping something related to one's financial-status (not the rule they just claimed exists) as the "official" reason for denial in their passport.

 

f it were me, I would enter by land.  If I had to fly (actually, I wouldn't come at all in that case, but...), I'd buy VIP express service, have a printout of an itinerary of places you plan to go in Thailand on this visit and where your outgoing air-ticket leads, and carry as much cash as I could lay my hands on, to "helpfully show" an IO the minute they began asking questions (given they are known to ignore bank-statement evidence, etc).

Since you seem very knowledgeable, I will do all of that recommended items, however I don't think I will carry THAT much cash. Seems like I would be an easy extortion target.

 

If I show a paper with a held flight from a travel agent for 7 days or one of these websites that hold tickets, is that a "Confirmed" flight ticket out of the country, or will it show differently on the IO's screen, that it is only held and not "confirmed?" If they deny me I don't want to lose another flight ticket and on top of that have to buy another back to Cambodia. I'd be out way too much just for an exemption stamp, and have to do the whole thing over again in 60 days.

 

Example websites:

https://travelvisaguru.com/price/

 

https://www.bookingforvisa.com/

 

https://www.visatraveler.com/blog/how-to-get-a-travel-itinerary-for-visa-application/

 

I fear booking a "fully refundable flight" only to somehow get screwed over or stuck in detention unable to cancel some really expensive flight ticket. Geez, this is such a nightmare, someone can cost you easily $1000 in tickets and reservations just because they don't like the look of you.

 

Can you point me to a resource that lists best practices for Visa Exemption? I've looked, but after the Phnom Penh failure I'm not trusting what I've read so far.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, swineninety9 said:

I fear booking a "fully refundable flight" only to somehow get screwed over or stuck in detention unable to cancel some really expensive flight ticket. Geez, this is such a nightmare, someone can cost you easily $1000 in tickets and reservations just because they don't like the look of you.

If flying in (and from 95+% of the world's countries) there is no way you can end up in detention for a long period. If you are denied entry, the worst case scenario might be overnight in the airport detention room before you are sent back to your origin.

 

1 hour ago, swineninety9 said:

Since you seem very knowledgeable, I will do all of that recommended items, however I don't think I will carry THAT much cash. Seems like I would be an easy extortion target.

Carrying $5,000 or so in cash would not make your an extortion target. It is not a particularly large sum compared to what some carry with them. The only danger with that much cash is pickpockets. Travelers' checks is an accepted alternative if concerned about that. The advice about "accidentally" letting them know you are loaded with cash is valid. In many cases, it will deter an official who wants to deny you a visa exempt entry.

 

Paying for fast track entry is probably also a worthwhile investment to show you are a "person of substance not to be riffled with". I speculate (without firm evidence) that officials may also be influenced (at least subconsciously) by whether you are arriving on a full service or a budget airline.

 

With many officials (especially older ones) how you are dressed and groomed is a deciding factor when they have discretion (which they always do with visa exempt entry by air). It is worth being freshly bathed, and looking affluent, whenever concerned about the decision of a Thai official.

[JackThompson]

Keep in mind - I don't ever fly in - even with my Non-O-ME.  The airport (and Poipet/Aranya) IOs are on some sort of "mission."  Whoever is funding that mission are not paid by me - so I must assume want me rejected, so I will have to pay them. 

 

6 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

If I show a paper with a held flight from a travel agent for 7 days or one of these websites that hold tickets, is that a "Confirmed" flight ticket out of the country, or will it show differently on the IO's screen, that it is only held and not "confirmed?"

I have heard people using the rent-a-flight things for Visa applications (are arranged by agents on-site / near consulates).  I have no idea what the IOs could reference if they dug into it.

 

A real "throwaway" flight should be about 1000 Baht.  Fully-refundable could also work, if you have at least a few days to cancel.  In any case, make it fit in with your itinerary. 

 

6 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

Since you seem very knowledgeable, I will do all of that recommended items, however I don't think I will carry THAT much cash. Seems like I would be an easy extortion target.

Immigration aren't going to ask for 10K Baht +, because it would be easier to take the flight back to Cambodia.  There was a recent 1K payoff reported by a guy claiming to be Singaporean, but would not count on this option being available.

 

I, too, really hate carrying large amounts of cash - never more than 5K Baht, unless in the few minutes between an ATM and a Cash-Payment for something - and that rarely.  Before I topped up travelers checks, I would pull money out, go through immigration, then immediately re-deposit it in my Bangkok Bank account.

 

The purpose of this amount of money is twofold:

• Immigration having to write how much you had in cash on their rejection-form, which would look silly being that much
• The sum being enough to fund a full 30-days stay, so they cannot claim you "could not fund your stay" - which is a rejection-method they are using now on people who clearly aren't working (not out/in quickly), and who have the 20K Baht.

Again - no guarantees by doing all this ridiculous stuff.  I can't imagine how ticked-off I'd be if I paid fast-track, carried a pile of cash, bought a "throwaway" air-ticket, etc - then got rejected anyway.

[jrjrjr]

20000 thb is large amount of cash ? Do you really live a poor farmer life ?! Or are you really scared to lose $600 ?!

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, jrjrjr said:

20000 thb is large amount of cash ? Do you really live a poor farmer life ?! Or are you really scared to lose $600 ?!

Losing 5K Baht would be a bummer - and I almost never need more than this in cash for anything, so rarely carry more.

OTOH, losing 20K Baht - not "scared," because I would not be missing any meals or become homeless as a result - but I would view it in terms of the "2-jobs + frugal-life" chunks of of my young-life (thanks to "globalization"), which were spent to acquire it. 

[swineninety9]

On 10/23/2018 at 11:04 AM, JackThompson said:

 so best to make sure they see you have $5K USD or similar in cash - but without being "arrogant seeming" about it (not an easy needle to thread).

 

 

 

4 hours ago, jrjrjr said:

20000 thb is large amount of cash ? Do you really live a poor farmer life ?! Or are you really scared to lose $600 ?!

 

 

 

He said 5k USD. That is about 165k baht. Not sure it would fit in my pocket, I'd have to buy new pants, and I hate shopping for pants. ????

 

Still wondering about these online "hold" flight services which are good for 7 days. Anyone else have any success with them on Visa Exemptions? I've already lost a months rent (in Thailand prices) on this whole debacle, not looking to lose too much more.

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

He said 5k USD. That is about 165k baht. Not sure it would fit in my pocket, I'd have to buy new pants, and I hate shopping for pants. ????

It does not need to be in Thai currency. Seven 1,000 Singapore dollar notes would amount to over US$5,000. Even in US$100 bills, it would fit in a large wallet.

[lkv]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

It does not need to be in Thai currency. Seven 1,000 Singapore dollar notes would amount to over US$5,000. Even in US$100 bills, it would fit in a large wallet.

Top 3 for lightweight travels:

 

-Swiss Franc 1,000

-Singapore Dollar 1,000

-Euro 500

 

????

[swineninety9]

On 10/25/2018 at 11:48 AM, lkv said:

Top 3 for lightweight travels:

 

-Swiss Franc 1,000

-Singapore Dollar 1,000

-Euro 500

 

????

Do they have $1000 Swiss Franc Notes?

[manarak]

3 minutes ago, swineninety9 said:

Do they have $1000 Swiss Franc Notes?

negative. they have 1000 swiss franc notes.

[swineninety9]

One thing I forgot to mention when I left on my final entry on my METV to Cambodia, the airline check in lady asked me after I handed her my passport, "do you have residency in Thailand?" to which I said no, they they went, "oh ok" and handed my passport back.

 

Something must be on the computer screens at the airports, I was just reading through this thread.

 

 

[swineninety9]

Anyone run into this, seems to still be up on the Los Angeles Thai Embassy site (which is probably outdated).

 

http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=28

 

> Please be aware that Thai Immigration's recent crack down on visa runners is aimed at visa runners who abuse the visa exemption program for the purpose of working in Thailand.  "Visa runners" refers to foreigners who leave Thailand to a neighboring country for a brief stay and then return to Thailand for another 15 or 30-day stay without any type of visa.  The visa exemption program is for the purpose of tourism only.  At present, Thai Immigration will take measures of warning and advising visa runners to obtain the proper visa.  However, beginning August 12, 2014, Thai Immigration will begin prohibiting visa runners from entering Thailand.  Those wishing to enter Thailand for purposes other than tourism are advised to secure the proper visa prior to their arrival in Thailand.

Passport holders from the countries below can visit Thailand without a visa for the maximum of 30 days stay per entry with a total period of stay not exceeding 90 days within 6 months from the date of first entry into the kingdom. To enter the kingdom using 30-DAY STAY WITHOUT VISA again , this can be done after the first 6 months (from the first date you enter thailand) .

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, swineninety9 said:

Anyone run into this, seems to still be up on the Los Angeles Thai Embassy site (which is probably outdated).

 

Mostly false or outdated info.

The August 2014 thing really did not happen. They issued a guidance for visa exempt entries to check for out/in visa runs for visa exempt entries.

The 90 days in 6 months rule was rescinded in 2008 when they started the 15 day entries at land border crossings. The 15 days at land border crossings was rescinded on January 1st of last year when the 2 visa exempt entries per calendar year rule went into effect.

[swineninety9]

Ok, final update on this from OP on this.

 

I made it through Bangkok immigration at DM airport. The Void Without Prejudice did raise a red flag with the Thai lady stamping me through as I was switching from international to domestic terminals. I can't speak Thai but seems like she had to kick it upstairs as she started talking into her lapel mic to someone and she spent about 3-5 min on mine as opposed to 90 sec on the others in front of me. Finally at the end she asked "do you have a visa" I said no, and she stamped me 30 days exempt.

 

tl;dr - The Void without Prejudice will make them scrutinize your passport at DM airport and kick the approval upstairs. 

[JackThompson]

21 hours ago, swineninety9 said:

Ok, final update on this from OP on this.

 

I made it through Bangkok immigration at DM airport. The Void Without Prejudice did raise a red flag with the Thai lady stamping me through as I was switching from international to domestic terminals. I can't speak Thai but seems like she had to kick it upstairs as she started talking into her lapel mic to someone and she spent about 3-5 min on mine as opposed to 90 sec on the others in front of me. Finally at the end she asked "do you have a visa" I said no, and she stamped me 30 days exempt.

 

tl;dr - The Void without Prejudice will make them scrutinize your passport at DM airport and kick the approval upstairs. 

Very happy to hear this.  You have more guts than me to try this.  I would guess they are seeing more of these lately (the guy on the other end of the mic had seen them before) so it came down to other factors.