QC Opinion on Domicile [UK]

[Oxx]

Has anyone got any experience of getting a QC's opinion on whether they are still UK domiciled or not?

 

I know it won't be cheap, but how much? And how did you go about finding a suitable QC?

 

Thanks.

[Kwasaki]

I don't see why anyone would bother with an expensive QC's opinion it's quite simple to know the domiciled position yourself and know your tax commitment to your country of origin if any.

[Oxx]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

it's quite simple to know the domiciled position yourself

 

Actually, it's not.  And getting a QC's opinion is the only way for typical expats to determine it before death.  You may be confusing "domicile" with "residence".

[Kwasaki]

Yeah OK so I don't understand really because I only thought it's pretty obvious for someone to determine what I am or was.

I consider myself as domiciled in Thailand because that is my home address and have long been a non-residence of UK.

[cleopatra2]

Possibly through the direct access portal

 

https://www.directaccessportal.co.uk/search/1/barrister

 

second option would be to use solicitor/lawyer.

 

Cost will vary on complexity and amount of work, but should be stated when you enquire before instructing

[Oxx]

Thanks, but the portal wasn't much help.  Searching for "domicile" brought up three individuals, none of whom was a QC.

 

No point using a solicitor which would only add to the costs, assuming I can't identify a suitable QC myself.

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

Thanks, but the portal wasn't much help.  Searching for "domicile" brought up three individuals, none of whom was a QC.

 

No point using a solicitor which would only add to the costs, assuming I can't identify a suitable QC myself.

If I may ask , why the need for a QC vice Barrister. They both are essentially the same. One, the QC has applied and been accepted by a committee  to become a member. They both are advocates and plead their case in court.

From the previous link Peter Vaines looks suitable for dealing with questions regarding domicile. Not sure about fees.

[taxout]

QCs are barristers. They're barristers whose seniority and stature at the bar have been recognised by elevation to Queen's Counsel. Think of them as senior barristers.

[jkthai]

I know you seem set on a QC ,

but may it be prudent to have a go at a specialist accountant who may have in house expertise in this field ,

 

would also add a buffer to the authorities rather than taking them on by yourself ,

 

apologies if you've already been through this

[Oxx]

4 minutes ago, jkthai said:

I know you seem set on a QC ,

but may it be prudent to have a go at a specialist accountant who may have in house expertise in this field ,

 

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand the situation.  Only the opinion of a QC will prevent HMRC claiming I'm UK domiciled upon my demise.  It's an expensive route, but avoids far greater expense post mortem.

 

(HMRC will not give me its opinion upon my domicile pre mortem.  I know, I've tried.)

[jkthai]

OK , sounds like a very detailed topic , appreciate the complexities ,

 

As a bit of info on cost , I contacted a direct access barrister last year over a land matter , and that was £750  for an hours telephone consultation , bearing in mind no written opinion with this.

 

later on appointed a solicitor who said I had virtually wasted my money as it is such a specialist issue for laymen to get their head round.

 

I have done a bit of research on tax and domcile over the last year and thes guys seem to be pretty clued up if it's any help.

 

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/contact-us/general-enquiry

 

not sure if you can post web pages blevinsfranks.com

[cleopatra2]

11 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand the situation.  Only the opinion of a QC will prevent HMRC claiming I'm UK domiciled upon my demise.  It's an expensive route, but avoids far greater expense post mortem.

 

(HMRC will not give me its opinion upon my domicile pre mortem.  I know, I've tried.)

Apologies, but personally a QC opinion is just an opinion (a better informed one ). If the HMRC think you are UK domiciled they will challenge in court depending upon their own legal advice. 
 

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

Apologies, but personally a QC opinion is just an opinion (a better informed one ). If the HMRC think you are UK domiciled they will challenge in court depending upon their own legal advice. 

 

Have a read of https://www.sovereigngroup.com/our-services/sovereign-personal-wealth/case-study-3-personal/ You might then understand a bit better.

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

 

Have a read of https://www.sovereigngroup.com/our-services/sovereign-personal-wealth/case-study-3-personal/ You might then understand a bit better.

Try the following website 

https://revenue-bar.org/

 

Probably have more success looking at the individual chambers website such as

http://www.devereuxchambers.co.uk/

[Oxx]

Well, just received an estimate:  £10,000 pounds for what can't be more than an hour's work.  Ludicrous.  Almost as ludicrous as HMRC's refusal to give expats an opinion on domicile if you're not dead.

 

For all other taxes in life, things are certain.  If I live and work in the UK I can calculate how much income tax I'll pay on my salary and on my investments.  I'd know exactly how much I'd pay in VAT for buying a sausage.  But when it comes to this 40% inheritance tax there can be no certainty.

 

And in other news, "Inheritance tax receipts on course for new record high".

 

https://www.moneyobserver.com/news/inheritance-tax-receipts-course-new-record-high

[simoh1490]

I've been around the UK domicile loop a number of times with different solicitors over the years. I finally concluded a few years back that there was too much uncertainty with trying to guarantee a non-dom status so I gave up and I've organised my financial affairs accordingly. 

[Snow Leopard]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I've been around the UK domicile loop a number of times with different solicitors over the years. I finally concluded a few years back that there was too much uncertainty with trying to guarantee a non-dom status so I gave up and I've organised my financial affairs accordingly. 

Thats what i was going to say. Whats the point. You can wrap everything up offshore and HMRC cannot touch it. My divorce where i used a QC last year cost 15K GBP for 2 days. 

[Oxx]

15 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

You can wrap everything up offshore and HMRC cannot touch it.

 

An interesting comment.  However, if you're deemed UK domiciled then Hector is still entitled to his 40% cut of everything globally.  However, if you're thinking of trust structures, it would appear that now you can only get a suitable trust structure if you first get the opinion of a QC on your being non-domiciled.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

An interesting comment.  However, if you're deemed UK domiciled then Hector is still entitled to his 40% cut of everything globally.  However, if you're thinking of trust structures, it would appear that now you can only get a suitable trust structure if you first get the opinion of a QC on your being non-domiciled.

not entirely....I've been non-UK resident for tax purposes for many years, my assets in Thailand are subject to my Thai will and are separate from my UK assets, the latter being subject to IHT, the former not so. this is because I have shifted ownership of all my Thai assets into my partners name and gifted much of what is intended to be willed anyway, my investment accounts are also in "either/or" names.

Edited October 24, 2018 by simoh1490

[LongTimeLurker]

HMRC will determine if you are domiciled or not and it will be up to your heirs to fight the decision if it is against you.

 

The reason why HMRC stopped giving rulings about domicile pre-mortem is that your circumstances may change after the ruling so it would no longer be valid. Anyone elses opinion about your current domicile status could also be invalidated in the future if circumstances change. And I'm sure a QC would put that caveat in any decision he gives.

 

First thing you should do is state in your Will that "my domicile of choice is wherever" and for your heirs to be able to show that you have had long term commitments to your country of choice and have severed ties with the UK.

Edited October 25, 2018 by LongTimeLurker