Elite Card Not So Elite Anymore...

[sfokevin]

Elite Card lives on, but may be much cheaper than B1m

CHATRUDEE THEPARAT

The much-criticised Thailand Elite Card programme will be overhauled to do away with the existing system of distributors and country partners, the Tourism Authority of Thailand board said yesterday.

//edit - please do not quote full stories - lopburi3//

http://www.bangkokpost.net/Business/14Feb2007_biz35.php

[sriracha john]

deep cuts in new membership fees to between 50,000 and 60,000 baht from one million baht, Mr Suvit said. The cheaper memberships would mean vastly reduced privileges.

For that price, can we presume it's good-bye to the 5 year visa?

[Crossy]

Be interesting to see what the 'greatly reduced privileges' are, and if your 50,000 Baht still gets you a life membership.

Watching with interest

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The punters that paid a million baht are not going to be happy chappies

[naka]

No specifics as usual ... How can you take these people seriously ?

A committee set up to study the programme found that Elite Card members spent an average of 20,000 baht a day in Thailand, compared with about 4,000 baht for general tourists.

Statistics statistics and damned lies.

General tourists are presumably both rich and poor.

Ok, so how much did the affluent 'general tourist' spend each day as opposed to

the Card holder. ?

Naka.

[midas]

The punters that paid a million baht are not going to be happy chappies

Many of the people who actually paid money may take the attitude that they can afford to

write-off the difference, I wonder if any will take legal action - do they have grounds

to do so ? What I was thinking is that if a few of the investors got together and threatened

a class-action - they might have a relatively stronger bargaining position in that the government

wouldn't want even more negative publicity after the recent airport debacle ?

I hope we get some responses from those that actually paid one million baht ................?

[ovenman]

Many of the people who actually paid money may take the attitude that they can afford to write-off the difference, I wonder if any will take legal action - do they have grounds to do so ? What I was thinking is that if a few of the investors got together and threatened a class-action - they might have a relatively stronger bargaining position in that the government wouldn't want even more negative publicity after the recent airport debacle ?

I hope we get some responses from those that actually paid one million baht ................?

It would be hard to believe that the fine print of the Thailand Elite program contract doesn't contain the standard boiler-plate disclaimer, "managment reserves the right to change the program terms/conditions at any time, for any reason". In which case, caveat emptor.

[tijnebijn]

If they can change the elitecards to a price like that,and (just a suggestion) for instance married spouses of thai people with thai chidren could have their priviliges,the golf etc they can skip.But just the 5 years visas etc,then for once we can look something forward too. Or for regular coming tourists,like us expats.......Would be great.

[lamphun]

The punters that paid a million baht are not going to be happy chappies

A two tier system on the way ?

[midas]

It would be hard to believe that the fine print of the Thailand Elite program contract doesn't contain the standard boiler-plate disclaimer, "managment reserves the right to change the program terms/conditions at any time, for any reason". In which case, caveat emptor.

Ovenman you're probably right but this is why this situation now become an interesting case for legal analysis ?

Reserving the right to change terms and conditions surely doesn't mean that those who actually paid

1,000,000 baht could foresee any risk that this would result in a devaluation to their " investment " of over 900,000 baht ?

I wonder what sort of verdict the Thai courts would hand down on a breach of contract claim ?

[ovenman]

Reserving the right to change terms and conditions surely doesn't mean that those who actually paid 1,000,000 baht could foresee any risk that this would result in a devaluation to their " investment " of over 900,000 baht ?

Why not? "Investments" usually come with a risk. I doubt that people who paid ~$90 per share for Enron stock could foresee a day just around the corner upon which their precious stock would be barely worth more than the cost of the paper it was printed on.

I wonder what sort of verdict the Thai courts would hand down on a breach of contract claim ?

Against the Thai government...?

[midas]

Reserving the right to change terms and conditions surely doesn't mean that those who actually paid 1,000,000 baht could foresee any risk that this would result in a devaluation to their " investment " of over 900,000 baht ?

Why not? "Investments" usually come with a risk. I doubt that people who paid ~$90 per share for Enron stock could foresee a day just around the corner upon which their precious stock would be barely worth more than the cost of the paper it was printed on.

I wonder what sort of verdict the Thai courts would hand down on a breach of contract claim ?

Against the Thai government...?

well I might be entirely wrong but I just can't see everyone who paid the money

simply taking this on the chin What opinion does the legal division of Sunbelt

have on these new developments ?

[ovenman]

I wonder what sort of verdict the Thai courts would hand down on a breach of contract claim ?

Against the Thai government...?

well I might be entirely wrong but I just can't see everyone who paid the money simply taking this on the chin What opinion does the legal division of Sunbelt have on these new developments ?

You may well be right in that there may be some legal out, but logically, if one of the conditions of a contract that you signed was that the other party could make any changes to their side as they saw fit, what part of the contract is being breached if they actually did so?

[buriramboy]

screw all the other privaledges, if they want to let me have a 5 year visa for 60,000 baht, tell me where to sign up and i'll be first in the queue for the new elite card.

BB

[Meerkat]

Well as an existing member, the short answer as to what is going to happen is, “We don't know”.

And it would appear that neither do the people who work there either. On reading the news this morning I emailed them to ask what happens to existing members (and to them) and got this in response:

Dear Mr. Meerkat,

Thank you for your feedback on this news. Please be informed that Thailand Elite has only one price policy at the moment.

However, we are trying the debate the recent negative news towards us and would like to ensure youself and other members that we are still running our operation as usual.

Thank you for your kind concern about us and look forward to hearing from you again very soon.

Best regards,

As I told some friends recently, the fact that the programme was approved in two previous reviews since the coup, and yet sent back for a third review led me to consider that the government simply hadn't got the answer they wanted from the first two! Of course if they devalue the programme rather than cancel it, it should get them around the potential for lawsuits (although not being a lawyer, I have no idea at what point a degradation of services is considered a de facto cancellation). Let's face it though; the odds of a couple of thousand foreigners winning a court case against a Thai military government in a Thai court are up there with Belgium winning the rapidly approaching cricket World Cup!

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if I get to keep the 5 year visa...

Most importantly however (and in spite of the various warnings about the risk of investing in a developing economy that I and others have given with respect to the project in the past), I do hope that nobody bought the card for whom the loss will have a material effect on their lifestyle.

[dave111223]

screw all the other privaledges, if they want to let me have a 5 year visa for 60,000 baht, tell me where to sign up and i'll be first in the queue for the new elite card.

BB

I'll be in a queue right behind you, 5 year visa for 60,000 would be fantastic.

[ovenman]

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if I get to keep the 5 year visa...

I've said all along that if the Elite Card were to get curtailed/canceled, the government should keep the five-year visa for existing members as a gesture of goodwill. Really foolish for them not to, considering that the visa costs virtually nothing for the gov't to administer.

I don't expect that five-year visas will be a benefit offered for 60,000 baht if that's the price the card evolves into...

[Meerkat]

Of course another irony with this is that had the scheme been allowed to continue in something approximating its existing format (and with some form of explicit government approval rather than the uncertainty we've had since September), the cancellation of the THB 3m investment visa for new applicants would probably have led to improved sales for TE. Not to Thaksin's ridiculous 1m member level (which I still think was nothing more than hubris), but certainly towards the much more realistic 7,000 member target which was the most recent number I'd read about.

[sriracha john]

Many of the people who actually paid money may take the attitude that they can afford to write-off the difference, I wonder if any will take legal action - do they have grounds to do so ? What I was thinking is that if a few of the investors got together and threatened a class-action - they might have a relatively stronger bargaining position in that the government wouldn't want even more negative publicity after the recent airport debacle ?

I hope we get some responses from those that actually paid one million baht ................?

It would be hard to believe that the fine print of the Thailand Elite program contract doesn't contain the standard boiler-plate disclaimer, "management reserves the right to change the program terms/conditions at any time, for any reason". In which case, caveat emptor.

you mean like this one?:

Information may be changed or updated without notice. ThailandElite may also make improvements and/or changes in the products and/or the programs described in this information at any time without notice.

or perhaps this one:

ThailandElite assumes no responsibility regarding the accuracy of the information that is provided by ThailandElite and use of such information is at the recipient's own risk.

then again, it could be something like this one (sorry, it's their all caps):

ALL INFORMATION IS PROVIDED BY THAILANDELITE ON AN "AS IS" BASIS ONLY. THAILANDELITE PROVIDES NO REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, MERCHANTABILITY AND NON INFRINGEMENT.

but surely, if all else fails, they always got this one:

ThailandElite may at any time revise these terms by updating this posting.

[midas]

Well as an existing member, the short answer as to what is going to happen is, “We don't know”.

And it would appear that neither do the people who work there either. On reading the news this morning I emailed them to ask what happens to existing members (and to them) and got this in response:

Dear Mr. Meerkat,

Thank you for your feedback on this news. Please be informed that Thailand Elite has only one price policy at the moment.

However, we are trying the debate the recent negative news towards us and would like to ensure youself and other members that we are still running our operation as usual.

Thank you for your kind concern about us and look forward to hearing from you again very soon.

Best regards,

As I told some friends recently, the fact that the programme was approved in two previous reviews since the coup, and yet sent back for a third review led me to consider that the government simply hadn't got the answer they wanted from the first two! Of course if they devalue the programme rather than cancel it, it should get them around the potential for lawsuits (although not being a lawyer, I have no idea at what point a degradation of services is considered a de facto cancellation). Let's face it though; the odds of a couple of thousand foreigners winning a court case against a Thai military government in a Thai court are up there with Belgium winning the rapidly approaching cricket World Cup!Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if I get to keep the 5 year visa...

Most importantly however (and in spite of the various warnings about the risk of investing in a developing economy that I and others have given with respect to the project in the past), I do hope that nobody bought the card for whom the loss will have a material effect on their lifestyle.

Even if those that purchased the Elite Card at the beginning don't have a case - what about those

that purchased very recently and probably relied on blandishments and assurances just like in the letter

that you just received that everything is " business as normal " ?? I wonder if someone fronted up

today asking to buy one if they would still charge 1 million without giving any warnings of what could happen

next week or next month ?

[sriracha john]

However, we are trying the debate the recent negative news towards us and would like to ensure youself and other members that we are still running our operation as usual.

Can we send them some links to the 64 thaivisa threads going back to its inauguration?

[xbusman]

For those that bought without due diligence or some sort of general research and understanding of how things work in Thailand I say SOM NAM NA. For those that can smoke the money and not notice, who understood the risk but considering the paltry sum for a great visa and strong contacts, were able to walk away without a moments regret, I say GOOD ON YA MATE. Wish I had that much loose change, I would have joined you.

This program is going to be allowed to die an agonizing death by degrees. By non intervention in life support technologies. They might actually have something to offer at the 50K level, will be great to see.

[penguin]

Elite Card lives on, but may be much cheaper than B1m

CHATRUDEE THEPARAT

The Nation 14.02.2007

The much-criticised Thailand Elite Card programme will be overhauled to do away with the existing system of distributors and country partners, the Tourism Authority of Thailand board said yesterday. However, the programme will not be scrapped as it could play a significant role in attracting quality foreign tourists to Thailand, TAT officials said. In addition, scrapping the programme could expose the government to lawsuits by existing holders of million-baht lifetime memberships.

A committee set up to study the programme found that Elite Card members spent an average of 20,000 baht a day in Thailand, compared with about 4,000 baht for general tourists. Tourism and Sport Minister Suvit Yodmani, who chairs the TAT board, said that Thailand Privilege Card Co (TPC), the state-owned company that was set up to run the programme, needed to have a much clearer goal to attract affluent tourists as well as foreign investment.

The committee recommended scrapping arrangements with four distributors and 17 country partners and making the TAT the core marketing arm for the programme. The TAT currently has just one director on the TPC board. It also suggested that the company receive no more money from taxpayers.

The proposal also calls for deep cuts in new membership fees to between 50,000 and 60,000 baht from one million baht, Mr Suvit said. The cheaper memberships would mean vastly reduced privileges.

The original programme, a pet project of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, offered holders a wide range of perks, including preferential visas and fast-track immigration clearance, access to concierge and call-centre facilities and discounts at many tourist venues, including hotels, golf clubs and spas.

Mr Thaksin had originally hoped to attract as many as one million Elite Card holders by 2008 but the programme currently has fewer than 2,000 members.

[seagull]

screw all the other privaledges, if they want to let me have a 5 year visa for 60,000 baht, tell me where to sign up and i'll be first in the queue for the new elite card.

BB

yeah, me too. But you would still need to re-stamped your passport at immigration offices every 90 days.

[meadish_sweetball]

What I was thinking is that if a few of the investors got together and threatened

a class-action - they might have a relatively stronger bargaining position in that the government

wouldn't want even more negative publicity after the recent airport debacle ?

I hope we get some responses from those that actually paid one million baht ................?

Does somebody know if class action suits are an actual option in the Thai legal system?

[basjke]

Elite Card lives on, but may be much cheaper than B1m

CHATRUDEE THEPARAT

The Nation 14.02.2007

The much-criticised Thailand Elite Card programme will be overhauled to do away with the existing system of distributors and country partners, the Tourism Authority of Thailand board said yesterday. However, the programme will not be scrapped as it could play a significant role in attracting quality foreign tourists to Thailand, TAT officials said. In addition, scrapping the programme could expose the government to lawsuits by existing holders of million-baht lifetime memberships.

A committee set up to study the programme found that Elite Card members spent an average of 20,000 baht a day in Thailand, compared with about 4,000 baht for general tourists. Tourism and Sport Minister Suvit Yodmani, who chairs the TAT board, said that Thailand Privilege Card Co (TPC), the state-owned company that was set up to run the programme, needed to have a much clearer goal to attract affluent tourists as well as foreign investment.

The committee recommended scrapping arrangements with four distributors and 17 country partners and making the TAT the core marketing arm for the programme. The TAT currently has just one director on the TPC board. It also suggested that the company receive no more money from taxpayers.

The proposal also calls for deep cuts in new membership fees to between 50,000 and 60,000 baht from one million baht, Mr Suvit said. The cheaper memberships would mean vastly reduced privileges.

The original programme, a pet project of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, offered holders a wide range of perks, including preferential visas and fast-track immigration clearance, access to concierge and call-centre facilities and discounts at many tourist venues, including hotels, golf clubs and spas.

Mr Thaksin had originally hoped to attract as many as one million Elite Card holders by 2008 but the programme currently has fewer than 2,000 members.

If the new elite card still offers the visa privilege I will be happy to pay 50.000 baht.That's a reasonable price.

[Maestro]

But you would still need to re-stamped your passport at immigration offices every 90 days.

First time I hear about this. What kind of stamp would you get in your passport?

--

Maestro

[ovenman]

But you would still need to re-stamped your passport at immigration offices every 90 days

First time I hear about this. What kind of stamp would you get in your passport?

The five-year visa associated with the Elite Card allows for a ninety-day entry stamp. This can be (continuously) extended for additional ninety days at an immigrations office.

[Axel]

Yes, correct, every 90 days apply for extention of stay and pay the applicable fee.

More likely for the present Elite-members, to travel often and to obtain upon each return a permission to stay for 90 days which is free.

[Dakhar]

""The proposal also calls for deep cuts in new membership fees to between 50,000 and 60,000 baht from one million baht, Mr Suvit said. The cheaper memberships would mean vastly reduced privileges."""

Reduced privileges! Wow, were there really any worth talking about to begin with in the first place?

Psst.... Hey, ummm ya think we should reduce the price of a uselsess elite card from 1 million baht to ohhh 50K people would then buy it?

Kind of like my mom's logic.... she will buy lots of apples because they are on a "special sale" but disregards that the apples are rotten.

Weird.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Dakhar