The 800'000 Bht obstacle

[swissie]

Reading through the posts in the Visa sub-forum in connection with the recent turmoil concerning the acceptance of monthly income documentations of Farangs. I am surprised that a large number of Farangs seem to have trouble depositing 800'000 Bht for retirement-extention purposes in a Thai Bank, thus easily circumventing the ongoing "monthly income circus". This came as a surprise to me.
Thes days, the equivalent of 24'000 US$ can hardly be considered as a "fortune" by anyone anymore.

IMHO: Not having minimal liquid assets as mentioned above can only mean that a Farang is living "undercapitalised" in a foreighn country, 10'000 Km's away from essential (free) social-services. Financially ill-prepared for any unfortunate events, that only can be cured by money. Possibly culminating in cries for help in form of "crowd-funding" or starting a thread on TVF titled "I need urgent help"! Sorry, my view of things. Life accomodates a certain amount of reckless "adventurism" for a 22 year old. At the age of 69 1/2 this may no longer apply.
---------------------------------------------
I realise, that most readers will consider the above as a comment from an "aloof" smart ass. I will not get many "likes" here I know.

I can live with that as long as I get plenty of "likes" at "Lulu's Bar and Grill" in Pattaya. On a good day they even call me "Hello Sexy Man". Probably because they know, that I could deposit 800K in a Thai Bank even on a cloudy day.
Cheers.

[blackhorse]

You got it wrong. 99% doing a runner [emoji125]to vietnam and
Mexico have Cleary stated they are loaded but do not trust thai banks [emoji23]

As if Vietnam Cambodia and Mexico can be trusted

You can't make this stuff up. It's hilarious

[swissie]

9 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

You got it wrong. 99% doing a runner to vietnam and
Mexico have Cleary stated they are loaded but do not trust thai banks

As if Vietnam Cambodia and Mexico can be trusted

You can't make this stuff up. It's hilarious

These days I rather trust a Thai Bank and my favorite Bar-Lady as my personal accountant, instead of an ITALIAN BANK. Bad things to come. Far away from Thailand. Maybe not far enough.

[cyberfarang]

Good post, swissie and my thoughts exactly.

 

The Thai government will welcome westerners if they feel are going to be of benefit to the country, one being, they want their money invested in Thailand and not abroad. Thailand is not a charitable kingdom to accommodate cheap charlies that are considered poor in their own countries that owes them a better quality lifestyle. To be given something, one has to give something back in return. 

 

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

 

As you rightly say swissie, 24000USD or £19000 is hardly a fortune these days. If pensioners over 50 cannot afford this amount to remain in the country, then I have to ask; what have they been doing all their lives?

[poanoi]

7 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

 

 

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

 

as far as i know, every_single_one pays their way already ?

[swissie]

31 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Good post, swissie and my thoughts exactly.

 

The Thai government will welcome westerners if they feel are going to be of benefit to the country, one being, they want their money invested in Thailand and not abroad. Thailand is not a charitable kingdom to accommodate cheap charlies that are considered poor in their own countries that owes them a better quality lifestyle. To be given something, one has to give something back in return. 

 

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

 

As you rightly say swissie, 24000USD or £19000 is hardly a fortune these days. If pensioners over 50 cannot afford this amount to remain in the country, then I have to ask; what have they been doing all their lives?

Don't know. Maybe having invested too much of their liquid assets in "real-estate" in Thailand. Depending on location, hard to turn into cash.

Or they have spent their money on " Wine, Women and Song" upon arrival in Thailand. The rest, they have just squandered.

Cheers.

[HampiK]

I think some really not want bring the cash to Thailand because of some horror stories (in TV-Forum and some other sources).

 

But I also think a big group of complaining about they not want bring... I think they can't!

 

About the bad stories… yes something can happen, but this also can happen with banks in US or Europe. I think I also read sometimes stories about people loose money in Europe. Very Similar stories as I hear from Thailand. So I not would say that Europe Banks are more safe than Thai ones.

 

Another thing is, that some people have too much time and therefore need to have something to complain else they not happy.

[simoh1490]

12 minutes ago, HampiK said:

I think some really not want bring the cash to Thailand because of some horror stories (in TV-Forum and some other sources).

 

But I also think a big group of complaining about they not want bring... I think they can't!

 

About the bad stories… yes something can happen, but this also can happen with banks in US or Europe. I think I also read sometimes stories about people loose money in Europe. Very Similar stories as I hear from Thailand. So I not would say that Europe Banks are more safe than Thai ones.

 

Another thing is, that some people have too much time and therefore need to have something to complain else they not happy.

Posters who use the TVF horror stories about Thai banking as an excuse for not bringing 800k over here for their visa are full of cr@p, they're lying plain and simple and just don't have the money in the first place, there can be no other plausible rational explanation.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

As you rightly say swissie, 24000USD or £19000 is hardly a fortune these days. If pensioners over 50 cannot afford this amount to remain in the country, then I have to ask; what have they been doing all their lives?

Some may have had money until they had the misfortune to marry a Thai woman. I know several farang men who have lost everything they had that way. Some lost in the high hundreds of thousands of GBP.

 

And I also know many retired people who have a high enough income to satisfy the 65,000B requirement, and who own their own houses in the UK, but who either dont have GBP20,000 in cash to spare or who dont want to deposit it in fairly low-interest accounts here. I do deposit the 800kB here but I have a lot more elsewhere. If the 800kB was a significant percentage of my wealth I would probably want to do something better with it.

Edited October 26, 2018 by KittenKong

[HampiK]

1 minute ago, KittenKong said:

And I also know many retired people who have a high enough income to satisfy the 65,000N requirement, and who own their own houses in the UK, but who either dont have GBP20,000 in cash to spare or who dont want to deposit it in fairly low-interest accounts here. I do deposit the 800kB here but I have a lot more elsewhere. If the 800kB was a significant percentage of my wealth I would probably want to do something better with it.

I am not a financial guru, but are the interest that low here in Thailand?

 

At least compare to bank interest in Europe (Swiss) here the banks pays a very good interest rate (> 1.5%)

I read some stories about people gain 10% or more on their savings without a risk, but this is difficult to believe for me, but as I told I am not an expert.

[KittenKong]

6 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Posters who use the TVF horror stories about Thai banking as an excuse for not bringing 800k over here for their visa are full of cr@p, they're lying plain and simple and just don't have the money in the first place, there can be no other plausible rational explanation.

I know two farangs who lost large sums of money due to bank/ATM fraud here, and who never recovered a single satang. Whist I have faith in the stability of the banks I use here, I have little faith in their willingness to refund me in case of loss due to fraud by their own staff.

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I know two farangs who lost large sums of money due to bank/ATM fraud here, and who never recovered a single satang. Whist I have faith in the stability of the banks I use here, I have little faith in their willingness to refund me in case of loss due to fraud by their own staff.

We've been through this many times, AM fraud and skimming in Thailand is really no different from what it is in the West, neither is the lack of willingness of banks to make refunds in those circumstances. 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by simoh1490

[KittenKong]

Just now, HampiK said:

I am not a financial guru, but are the interest that low here in Thailand?

 

At least compare to bank interest in Europe (Swiss) here the banks pays a very good interest rate (> 1.5%)

Interest rates here are comparable to those in the West. But if 20,000GBP was a significant part of my wealth I think I would look for a different way of investing it than just depositing it in a bank.

[KittenKong]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

We've been through this many times, AM fraud and skimming in Thailand is really no different from what it is in the West, neither is the lack of willingness of banks to make refunds in those circumstances. 

No, this was internal fraud involving bank staff. I've never heard of anyone not being reimbursed for this in the West, but I've certainly heard of it here.

And in fact my own UK cards and bank accounts come with a guarantee of full reimbursement in case of fraud. Certainly on the very rare occasions when anything strange has happened to my UK cards, or when I have had to ask for a chargeback, I've been reimbursed instantly by my bank. I dont think that would be so easy here.

[simoh1490]

14 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

No, this was internal fraud involving bank staff. I've never heard of anyone not being reimbursed for this in the West, but I've certainly heard of it here.

And in fact my own UK cards and bank accounts come with a guarantee of full reimbursement in case of fraud. Certainly on the very rare occasions when anything strange has happened to my UK cards, or when I have had to ask for a chargeback, I've been reimbursed instantly by my bank. I dont think that would be so easy here.

If you read through the link I provided you will see there is another link that describes how, of the over 1,800 bank failures in the US since 1985, 37% of them were believed to have involved internal fraud. If you read further you'll see that somebody posted an extract citing that BB was busy refunding 1.75 mill. baht to customers who were the subject of internal fraud.

[marcusarelus]

It's not just 800,000 but the inability to borrow 800,000 for 90 days.  That's really poor. 

[Thailand]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

It's not just 800,000 but the inability to borrow 800,000 for 90 days.  That's really poor. 

As I said on another thread, a great business opportunity for some people coming up.

[Thaiwrath]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

It's not just 800,000 but the inability to borrow 800,000 for 90 days.  That's really poor. 

Based on my personal experiences here, some of whom I knew in my home city in UK, I would not lend another expat 8 baht, never mind 800,000 baht.

 

[Thian]

4 hours ago, swissie said:

I am surprised that a large number of Farangs seem to have trouble depositing 800'000 Bht for retirement-extention purposes in a Thai Bank

Not everybody is from Swiss which got rich from hidden (illegal) bankaccounts to avoid tax...

 

For me it's the fact that i don't trust thai banks so i won't put 800k on it...

 

Also don't forget that some folks have to pay very high tax because their government thinks is necessary to give loads of money to poor countries.....

 

 

 

 

 

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, swissie said:

I realise, that most readers will consider the above as a comment from an "aloof" smart ass. I will not get many "likes" here I know.

Agreed!

 

And by the way, it's 800,000 not 800'000 - 'smart ass'.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Moonlover

[KittenKong]

40 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

If you read through the link I provided you will see there is another link that describes how, of the over 1,800 bank failures in the US since 1985, 37% of them were believed to have involved internal fraud. If you read further you'll see that somebody posted an extract citing that BB was busy refunding 1.75 mill. baht to customers who were the subject of internal fraud.

I was commenting on the personal experience of people I know here, not on statistics from other countries. Also for me there is a big difference between banks failing due to internal fraud and individual customers being defrauded by bank staff.

 

Bangkok Bank are indeed refunding customers, but it seems to have taken them a very long time to do so and they appear to be doing it with very poor grace. My UK bank acted instantly: the refund was made whilst I was on the phone to them reporting the issue.

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, blackhorse said:

You got it wrong. 99% doing a runner to vietnam and
Mexico have Cleary stated they are loaded but do not trust thai banks

As if Vietnam Cambodia and Mexico can be trusted

You can't make this stuff up. It's hilarious

Yeah, the Vietnam and Mexico runners clearly have millions.

 

Millions of ideas that is.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

Take it easy on the Thailand 4.0 Kool-Aid willya? That stuff's as bad as yaabaa.

[HampiK]

18 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

And by the way, it's 800,000 not 800'000 - 'smart ass'.

No, as this depends on your country. In swiss and I think also some other countries it's the ' which separates the thousands… and not the comma (,).

 

even the decimal sign varies depending on the country settings.

[Cadbury]

4 hours ago, blackhorse said:

You got it wrong. 99% doing a runner to vietnam and
Mexico have Cleary stated they are loaded but do not trust thai banks

As if Vietnam Cambodia and Mexico can be trusted

You can't make this stuff up. It's hilarious

And you would know that from personal experience having lived in for extended periods in all three of those countries.

 

I trust Vietnamese banks; in fact I have had US$50,000 dollars sitting in a deposit account in Vietnam's largest bank for over 10 years and it is still there. When I first deposited it it was paying 14% p.a. on a yearly term deposit. After a few years that rate dropped and it is now only paying a miserable 8%. 

 

In Vietnam 5 year multiple entry marriage visa exemption costs US$10. They have to be stamped at a local immigration office every six months or better still they stamp them free every time one re-enters the country. That's all; nothing else needed. None of that exhaustive immigration nonsense and house inspections and rental registrations that exist in Thailand.

 

Plus another bonus is the cost of living is about half that of Thailand. Rentals might be slightly higher but everything else is about half price. 

 

Many expats living in Thailand can't move because of marriage and home commitments and that is to be expected but for those who are free and easy Vietnam is one country that makes people welcome whether they wish to retire, marry or work. 

[NanLaew]

58 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

If you read through the link I provided you will see there is another link that describes how, of the over 1,800 bank failures in the US since 1985, 37% of them were believed to have involved internal fraud. If you read further you'll see that somebody posted an extract citing that BB was busy refunding 1.75 mill. baht to customers who were the subject of internal fraud.

I think your link and the link nested therein needs to be made a 'sticky' and posted in the Money & Banking forum with the admonishment, "Do not post sh!t about Thai banks based on anecdotal tales before your read ALL of this."

 

Nice find. Thanks.

[NanLaew]

34 minutes ago, Thian said:

... Also don't forget that some folks have to pay very high tax because their government thinks is necessary to give loads of money to poor countries...

...and these folks much prefer to hand over that dosh personally.

 

Since this is a fairly broad discussion on income or lack thereof, has anyone got any insight on buffalo futures?

[poohy]

"The Thai government will welcome westerners if they feel are going to be of benefit to the country, one being, they want their money invested in Thailand and not abroad. Thailand is not a charitable kingdom to accommodate cheap charlies that are considered poor in their own countries that owes them a better quality lifestyle. To be given something, one has to give something back in return." 

 

Fair enough BUT what does Thailand give in return ??

Cannot own land

Archaic visa reporting,foreigner considered second class

Poor security in banking system

 

so really  just "sticky rice n somtam"

 

Not a fat lot  this seems a one way street as always with Thailand

[wgdanson]

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Good post, swissie and my thoughts exactly.

 

The Thai government will welcome westerners if they feel are going to be of benefit to the country, one being, they want their money invested in Thailand and not abroad. Thailand is not a charitable kingdom to accommodate cheap charlies that are considered poor in their own countries that owes them a better quality lifestyle. To be given something, one has to give something back in return. 

 

Personally, I welcome this new policy by the embassies that will help bring better quality expats into the country that can pay their way.

 

As you rightly say swissie, 24000USD or £19000 is hardly a fortune these days. If pensioners over 50 cannot afford this amount to remain in the country, then I have to ask; what have they been doing all their lives?

But if that 800,000 is 'stuck' in a Thai bank, it is not being used for the benefit of normal Thais, only for the investors who use that money to gain profit. Surely if someone deposits 65k a month and then spends some or all of it down the pub, on tom yam for the missis, or whatever, the country is benefiting more.

[Thian]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

...and these folks much prefer to hand over that dosh personally.

 

Since this is a fairly broad discussion on income or lack thereof, has anyone got any insight on buffalo futures?

Well personally i wished i could give my money to a charity i choose myself, don't need any leftwing political parties to do that for me.

 

My point was that this Swiss seems to have forgotten why Swiss is more rich than it's neighbours, it's because they were the bankers from the underworld of their neighbours.

Not only from producing watches (which nobody needs these days with cellphones).

 

My thai friends are in Geneva right now, i hope they get a lot of snow this weekend, meters of it hahaha so they know how cool that is.