SURVEY: USA -- Headed in the right or wrong direction?

[riclag]

4 minutes ago, billsmart said:

And this is what I'm talking about. Hopefully, when the Trump fiasco has run its course, your watch will be over.

America's  awakening since 2015  doesn't change when the messenger departs!

[riclag]

Nationalism the unification of American values through patriotism not globalism 

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

Disagree MAGA is symbolic to the Industrial revolution ! It's energized and stimulated trilions of overseas monies coming back to the country. Record low unemployment! More jobs than ever .Consumer confidence has a positive effect.America is doing better than ever economically, I can't see why independent's  would change that!

And most of that money is going to stock buybacks and increased dividends which mostly benefits the top 10 percent of income earners. Remember the promises of how the tax bill was going to stimulate investment? Investment actually plunged in this latest report. The Republican approach: when the economy is weak cut taxes. When the economy is strong cut taxes. It's magic!

[riclag]

6 minutes ago, billsmart said:

And this is probably the most important example of our difference of opinion on the state of our country and where we need to go from here. I don't measure the success of the US by looking at its economic indicators. The state of the economy is important, but not the most important factor. The most important factor is social cohesion and harmony. I keep coming back to the concept of a family. The success of a family isn't (or, IMO, shouldn't) be measured on the size of their bank account but on the harmony in the home. This is why I would much rather see my country run like a family than like a business. That is why I am a socialist and not a capitalist, and that is why I detest Trump and anyone who supports him.

The american family doesn't want open boarders

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, billsmart said:

And this is probably the most important example of our difference of opinion on the state of our country and where we need to go from here. I don't measure the success of the US by looking at its economic indicators. The state of the economy is important, but not the most important factor. The most important factor is social cohesion and harmony. I keep coming back to the concept of a family. The success of a family isn't (or, IMO, shouldn't) be measured on the size of their bank account but on the harmony in the home. This is why I would much rather see my country run like a family than like a business. That is why I am a socialist and not a capitalist, and that is why I detest Trump and anyone who supports him.

Actually social cohesion and harmony track very strongly with economics. At least to whom the economic benefits are going. Increasingly they're going to the wealthiest Americans. In the days when the USA had strong unions there were lots of good paying jobs. Thanks to laws passed by Republicans, and a hostile right wing Supreme Court, unions are in decline. Remember how ethnic white communities used to be compared favorably to black communities. Now that their good paying jobs are gone, the same ills that afflicted black communities now afflict them. Of course, now that whites are suffering massively from opioid abuse, they're not being castigated and denigrated for it the way blacks were. Which is the right attitude. And should have been the attitude 40 years ago as well.

[bristolboy]

19 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

Sure Voter Fraud is real. And it's such a tiny percentage of actual incidents that it is inconsequential. No study has found any significant amount of it. There are many times more votes suppressed than there is actual voter fraud. Yet the suppression is in the name of preventing voter fraud. The people being suppressed are disproportionately minorities, as well.  

In fact 5 states headed by Republican governors with Republican legislatures staged massive investigations of voter fraud. They all came up virtually empty.

[billsmart]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

The american family doesn't want open boarders

Well, I don't know of any in the US, left or right, that wants open borders. I can tell you, however, that I, and I suspect most liberals, don't want closed borders.

[billsmart]

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

Nationalism the unification of American values through patriotism not globalism 

Nationalism is nationalism - the ideology that your nation is better and more worthy than any other nation. It's the same ideology that Trump is spouting: me, me, me. I'm the best. People like me are the best. People like me (White, male, straight, Christian Taliban, English-speaking, etc.) are the best, and everyone else is inferior.

 

Nationalism is not patriotism, although I do agree that nationalism is not globalism. I am a patriot and a globalist.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, riclag said:

Disagree MAGA is symbolic to the Industrial revolution ! It's energized and stimulated trilions of overseas monies coming back to the country. Record low unemployment! More jobs than ever .Consumer confidence has a positive effect.America is doing better than ever economically, I can't see why independent's  would change that!

MAGA was at the time it started, marketing socialist democrat ideology to the American people. Very similar ideology what Sanders has been talking about for years.

 

Drain the swamp! I hope you still remember that Trump phrase. 

 

We'll Trump didn't deliver, nor he actually wanted to deliver what he was preaching. Sanders would have done that, Trump didn't. 

 

 

[billsmart]

The results of the survey are still hovering around the 30/70 mark... ????

[Credo]

Here's a little insight on to what is happening:

 

A Week Of American Hate: Bombs Mailed, Black People Executed, Jews Slaughtered

Hate showed what it is truly capable of in America this week.

 

A man executed two black people at a grocery store, but didn’t engage a white man outside because “whites don’t shoot whites.” A Donald Trump supporter and apparent anti-Semite who looked up to white supremacists sent bombs in the mail to the president’s opposition. An avowed anti-Semite walked into a synagogue and killed 11 people after screaming, “All Jews must die!”

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-week-of-american-hate-bombs-mailed-black-americans-executed-jews-slaughtered_us_5bd4cd3be4b055bc948c9805?utm_source=main_fb&utm_medium=facebook&section=politics&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&fbclid=IwAR2dh5VuGxyo_TRH4SB5p_2Wf2mpxpxTvmjvMci5Rj8vb57qgrC7kdmtZCg&fbclid=IwAR3WLZtV0J5TnsLQB2haXK-AUGA7eN1DLrvVS3Xwi5xXA4rC8hDaOt8BySo&fbclid=IwAR3m81KbDTka48juP169ptFg3BNcy14rqIbJTnd7s3KRL_mAaYJdgJtJMgw&fbclid=IwAR1Iy6X9XPzFxccQG0BKV3VUgRkHrxiDyssXS8Mb9e61uOFwQWr-fX8bPcw&fbclid=IwAR3Z1uiELzMEdBqZZZMEjxcq_FBtANYXlK6rBoVhGKnCaNzSA94XHkEev8M

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, riclag said:

The american family doesn't want open boarders

And the American family, the majority of whose voters voted against Donald Trump, mostly doesn't like his immigration policies either.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-results-10-17

[neeray]

58 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I don't claim to be an expert of US laws, but aren't things like "Protects the right to keep and bear arms." amendments, which were not part of the US constitution and were added to the constitution in 1791?

 

That addition was needed and wanted by the people at that time, in 1791. Hundred years before electricity. 

Circumstances change with time. There is no longer any need to "bear arms".

 

[riclag]

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Nationalism is nationalism - the ideology that your nation is better and more worthy than any other nation. It's the same ideology that Trump is spouting: me, me, me. I'm the best. People like me are the best. People like me (White, male, straight, Christian Taliban, English-speaking, etc.) are the best, and everyone else is inferior.

 

Nationalism is not patriotism, although I do agree that nationalism is not globalism. I am a patriot and a globalist.

There you go "White, male, straight, Christian Taliban, English-speaking, etc".Nationalism to me has no colors or creeds or race! It's about country sovereignty,freedom, family values and adherence to the law of the land 

[riclag]

18 minutes ago, oilinki said:

MAGA was at the time it started, marketing socialist democrat ideology to the American people. Very similar ideology what Sanders has been talking about for years.

 

Drain the swamp! I hope you still remember that Trump phrase. 

 

We'll Trump didn't deliver, nor he actually wanted to deliver what he was preaching. Sanders would have done that, Trump didn't. 

 

 

Not even two years in office,promises made promises kept!. Trump haters are under estimating the strength and determination we patriots have to keep the flag red white and blue and the constitution strict

[riclag]

31 minutes ago, Credo said:

Here's a little insight on to what is happening:

 

A Week Of American Hate: Bombs Mailed, Black People Executed, Jews Slaughtered

Hate showed what it is truly capable of in America this week.

 

A man executed two black people at a grocery store, but didn’t engage a white man outside because “whites don’t shoot whites.” A Donald Trump supporter and apparent anti-Semite who looked up to white supremacists sent bombs in the mail to the president’s opposition. An avowed anti-Semite walked into a synagogue and killed 11 people after screaming, “All Jews must die!”

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-week-of-american-hate-bombs-mailed-black-americans-executed-jews-slaughtered_us_5bd4cd3be4b055bc948c9805?utm_source=main_fb&utm_medium=facebook&section=politics&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&fbclid=IwAR2dh5VuGxyo_TRH4SB5p_2Wf2mpxpxTvmjvMci5Rj8vb57qgrC7kdmtZCg&fbclid=IwAR3WLZtV0J5TnsLQB2haXK-AUGA7eN1DLrvVS3Xwi5xXA4rC8hDaOt8BySo&fbclid=IwAR3m81KbDTka48juP169ptFg3BNcy14rqIbJTnd7s3KRL_mAaYJdgJtJMgw&fbclid=IwAR1Iy6X9XPzFxccQG0BKV3VUgRkHrxiDyssXS8Mb9e61uOFwQWr-fX8bPcw&fbclid=IwAR3Z1uiELzMEdBqZZZMEjxcq_FBtANYXlK6rBoVhGKnCaNzSA94XHkEev8M

Are you saying thats PT fault?

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

Are you saying thats PT fault?

He does openly approve of violent behavior:

 

[Credo]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

The american family doesn't want open boarders

I am pretty liberal, but I don't know anyone who is in favor of open borders.   I understand there are some far-out-there folks that don't believe there should be any geo-political boundaries, but they don't have much traction.   

 

I know a lot of people who believe that countries should follow the laws, in a humane manner.   That means that those who apply for asylum are given the constitutional right to have a hearing.   

 

Please cite who is in favor of open borders.

[Credo]

35 minutes ago, riclag said:

Are you saying thats PT fault?

Nope.   Not completely.   But he does absolutely nothing to discourage it.   He advocates it, it encourages it and he has even said he would pay for the legal fees of those roughing up people at his rallies.   

 

 

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, riclag said:

Not even two years in office,promises made promises kept!. Trump haters are under estimating the strength and determination we patriots have to keep the flag red white and blue and the constitution strict

How does the swamp look today in your opinion? Do you also think that Trump is a patriot and thinking the best of her country?

[MyFriend You]

2 hours ago, jcsmith said:

And what does any of that have to do with the election. Unless you think all 3 million undocumented immigrants voted and voted democrat... where there is zero evidence of anything like that, or you are grandstanding.

Nothing, I wasn't answering you or anyone about the Election which the current sitting President clearly won, I don;t grandstand, I state facts.

[Small Joke]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

I've never heard anyone on the left saying they wanted to change the way the constitution is amended. Although the constitution is not itself changed, it's the slow, drip, drip of laws that start eroding our rights, or the interpretations of a left-leaning or right-leaning SCOTUS that interprets the existing constitution in new ways. Some of those interpretations, of course, I like. Some, I don't.

The fact is, though, that our society is constantly changing so our laws have to change also. We cannot just expect to run our country forever on standards set by a small group of privileged, White landowners when our country has moved far beyond that now.

Somebody tell that to Congress, it looks like they want to keep white privileged geezers very much in the majority. Forever.

A few “dinks” ”spics” and “polaks” a 1/326 Indian, a submissive old “skirt” or three and theyre good to go on！MAGA members please note, no Appalachian trailer trash allowed either, so dont be so smug.

[Small Joke]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Not even two years in office,promises made promises kept!. Trump haters are under estimating the strength and determination we patriots have to keep the flag red white and blue and the constitution strict

Nobody is underestimating you patriots anymore. I cant wait to see you start the work camps and the badge registration of non arayans. His second term will be a good time, yeah, after youve built the much needed autobahns to replace the 1950s freeways and bridges that are falling apart right now. Bless.

PS shame about the “stormers” who the deep state police have already killed or jailed for defending the fatherland this week. But their springtime will come！God Help America. Keep draining the swamp！

Edited October 28, 2018 by Small Joke

[ericthai]

13 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

 if they want to live with huge numbers of guns, cops that shoot unarmed blacks claiming self defence, rich that pay no taxes, poor education that discourages critical thinking and endless greed then that is ok. 

 

Sounds Like Thailand.

[allanos]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

And most of that money is going to stock buybacks and increased dividends which mostly benefits the top 10 percent of income earners. Remember the promises of how the tax bill was going to stimulate investment? Investment actually plunged in this latest report. The Republican approach: when the economy is weak cut taxes. When the economy is strong cut taxes. It's magic!

Those same stock buy-backs (and consequent increase in share price) and increased dividends boost the value of the retirement benefits in the 401K's held by a large percentage of US citizens; not just the top ten percent of income earners. 

[Patriot1066]

16 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

We agree but....looking at Europe, looking at U.S., Australia, etc. what is the root cause of the current right wing, nationalist moves? I believe the 30-40 years of economic squeeze on the working middle class is the cause of most of the reason for the justified frustration/anger. Unfortunately these folks are reacting with their gut emotions rather than searching for electing reasoned representatives who have some intelligence and are not beholding to money interests.

You are correct there is so many angry people in the US, UK Canada, and the EU. Unfortunately, many election systems do not represent the people in so called democracies. Such as in the UK, UKIP got almost 20% of the vote no MPs whilst the Greens got about 2% and got 1 MP. With America the electoral college is an interesting phenomena as you don't need to win the majority vote just the college ( I think please correct me if I am wrong.)

Same with Brexit and the millionaires vote sorry people's votes. Where a few very rich people are funding a vote to overturn the Brexit referendum. So as you suggest it seems little wonder people get angry and feel they have no empowerment. But the hard left are also rising so politics is much more polarised.

Therefore I would suggest the USA is going very much in the correct direction, as now mr Trump represents many who felt neglected now feel empowered. Significantly, the new appointment to the Supreme Court will level the balance to more fair and well thought out decisions in line with historic values. Further, the US is now at least standing up to China and the EU amongst over unfair trade, so yes in some respects above it is going in the right direction, but hard to comment when your looking in from the outside.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.   You DO NOT have to be an American to comment on this or any other topic.  

[Patriot1066]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

Not even two years in office,promises made promises kept!. Trump haters are under estimating the strength and determination we patriots have to keep the flag red white and blue and the constitution strict

Well said, and I am not even American but many of us love our own countries and yours. love your country suport it through patriotism and defending its establishment and rights, from those that would take them away.

[Patriot1066]

3 hours ago, allanos said:

Those same stock buy-backs (and consequent increase in share price) and increased dividends boost the value of the retirement benefits in the 401K's held by a large percentage of US citizens; not just the top ten percent of income earners. 

Yes that is correct the private pension system is largely supported by company stocks and property values. Pretty much throughout the world. So really what is happening is Trump is increasing wealth redistribution for those that worked hard all their lives and did without other things to pay into pensions,of any colour or creed so true wealth redistribution and trickle down?

This suggests that America is going in the right direction as sharing wealth and re distributing it to hard working people (now retired)?

[Nilats]

I'm sure there are people who know more about this maybe but my intuition suggests that US is getting closer to the same situation as they had in Weimar Germany in 1920s-30s... it's not exactly the same though. When you have a situation when economic woes reach a certain level and people lose confidence in democracy or ability of democratic government  to provide for them - then you have these wild swings between extreme right and extreme left... and majority of people in the middle don't determine the political life of the country anymore. So it could be one of those for America - either extreme left dictatorship or the extreme right dictatorship, if things continue as they are. Imo it's 67% chance of left dictatorship and 33% chance of rightwing dictatorship in America - it's hard to predict because there will be so much chaos any sequence of events could make it swing into one or the other direction... So imo in America for a lot of people it's like living on a volcano that could erupt at any moment, there's no right direction at this point.