Affirmation of Marital Status for British Nationals

[silverdales]

Thanks I will check it out, seems a very buggy system 

[dayo202]

I applied for a copy of my decree absolute to my court in the UK.

I had the copy back this morning, but the decree absolute certificate haven't any court stamp.

Im getting a little worried is this normal not to have a stamp ? will a solicitor and the FCO office in Milton Keynes legalisation the document without a court stamp ?

[worrab]

4 hours ago, dayo202 said:

I applied for a copy of my decree absolute to my court in the UK.

I had the copy back this morning, but the decree absolute certificate haven't any court stamp.

Im getting a little worried is this normal not to have a stamp ? will a solicitor and the FCO office in Milton Keynes legalisation the document without a court stamp ?

I would give the British Embassy in Bangkok a ring on 02 305 8333. Go through to Consular Section and chat with them before having to spend money on postage to and fro from the UK. With the way things keep changing here you may not need to go up that road! 

[silverdales]

On 12/24/2018 at 10:44 AM, worrab said:

No. You will need to visit the Embassy first to get their official stamps before going to the MFA. 

Now I'm confused as it says in the guidance notes from the FCO which is issued by the embassy in Bkk that a visit to the embassy won't be necessary once it's been returned by then and the Thai embassy 

 

That was from the link that Worab kindly gave 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/714089/Legalisation_info_June_2018.pdf

Edited January 2, 2019 by silverdales

[worrab]

44 minutes ago, silverdales said:

Now I'm confused as it says in the guidance notes from the FCO which is issued by the embassy in Bkk that a visit to the embassy won't be necessary once it's been returned by then and the Thai embassy 

 

That was from the link that Worab kindly gave 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/714089/Legalisation_info_June_2018.pdf

Trust me......you will need to go to the Embassy as they have to see the documents before they sign off and officially stamp the Affirmation of Marriage.

 

I think that comment refers to other documents not required for an Affirmation of Marriage whereby you can go straight to the MFA.

[silverdales]

Ok thanks, I'm  not doubting you just sharing my confusion!! ..thanks mate 

[Seanyboy]

Ok, first time on this forum. Following on from this topic, for how long is the affirmation valid? Is there a certain amount of time I need to get the document certified by the MFA and get the marriage registered within? I have the added complication of living in Bahrain so am trying to do this while circumventing three countries. Thanks in advance.

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[Seanyboy]

To add more confusion to this topic, I am now getting conflicting information from the embassy and a solicitor in BKK. The embassy says I need to get my decree absolute legalised in the UK, however the solicitor says this is not necessary. My original decree absolute is sufficient they say, and they will assist me at the embassy, with myself and my partner completing the process within 7 days, with myself being present on the first day and both of us present on the last day. Getting the docs legalised in the UK will involve me going there myself so obviously a process I don't want to go through if not necessary.

Does a solicitor have some special dispensation to avoid this, or am I getting misinformed? I have to say, I spoken to the embassy a few times on this subject and am not particularly impressed with the help i have received. Emails going unanswered and conflicting information, etc. Indeed, I just asked the lady on the phone if the requirement to get my docs legalised in the UK was a new requirement and she said she had been there three years and it had been a requirement ever since she had been there, despite hearing elsewhere it had only been a requirement since June 2018. Hence I thought I would try and enlist a solicitor, pay the fee and avoid getting tripped up. The company is Siam Legal International and I've seen mixed reviews but mostly positive.



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[worrab]

46 minutes ago, Seanyboy said:

To add more confusion to this topic, I am now getting conflicting information from the embassy and a solicitor in BKK. The embassy says I need to get my decree absolute legalised in the UK, however the solicitor says this is not necessary. My original decree absolute is sufficient they say, and they will assist me at the embassy, with myself and my partner completing the process within 7 days, with myself being present on the first day and both of us present on the last day. Getting the docs legalised in the UK will involve me going there myself so obviously a process I don't want to go through if not necessary.

Does a solicitor have some special dispensation to avoid this, or am I getting misinformed? I have to say, I spoken to the embassy a few times on this subject and am not particularly impressed with the help i have received. Emails going unanswered and conflicting information, etc. Indeed, I just asked the lady on the phone if the requirement to get my docs legalised in the UK was a new requirement and she said she had been there three years and it had been a requirement ever since she had been there, despite hearing elsewhere it had only been a requirement since June 2018. Hence I thought I would try and enlist a solicitor, pay the fee and avoid getting tripped up. The company is Siam Legal International and I've seen mixed reviews but mostly positive.



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Wow.............this does sound a bit of a mess.

Firstly, I have used Siam Legal in the past to get my then G/F's visa to visit the UK then to help me with opening bank accounts and getting my first extension of stay based on retirement. Could not fault their service.

Secondly, I am surprised at the lack of help from the Embassy. Did you speak with someone from Consular Services who are the ones in the know? I am not sure why this would take 7 days though as all is done in 20 mins with the Affirmation of Marriage once you have all the correct documents. 

The process via the UK would not need you to go back there but will involve you needing either family or friends there to help out and will take about 3 weeks and cost around £80 to obtain including all fees, couriers etc. 

The Affirmation for Marriage you can do yourself with the aid of computer, obviously, and a printer and costs you nothing. 

The legalisation process for the decree absolute is only required by the Embassy so they can then officially stamp the Affirmation of Marriage. The MFA do not want to see the decree absolute, just the Affirmation and the colour photocopy of your Passport, ( done by the Embassy).

PM if you need more info.  

 

[Seanyboy]

Wow.............this does sound a bit of a mess.
Firstly, I have used Siam Legal in the past to get my then G/F's visa to visit the UK then to help me with opening bank accounts and getting my first extension of stay based on retirement. Could not fault their service.
Secondly, I am surprised at the lack of help from the Embassy. Did you speak with someone from Consular Services who are the ones in the know? I am not sure why this would take 7 days though as all is done in 20 mins with the Affirmation of Marriage once you have all the correct documents. 
The process via the UK would not need you to go back there but will involve you needing either family or friends there to help out and will take about 3 weeks and cost around £80 to obtain including all fees, couriers etc. 
The Affirmation for Marriage you can do yourself with the aid of computer, obviously, and a printer and costs you nothing. 
The legalisation process for the decree absolute is only required by the Embassy so they can then officially stamp the Affirmation of Marriage. The MFA do not want to see the decree absolute, just the Affirmation and the colour photocopy of your Passport, ( done by the Embassy).
PM if you need more info.  
 

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, the 7 days refers to the solicitor completing the marriage process from start to finish, including translations, going to the MFA, etc. The problem I have is that I don't really have anyone i can get to go to the Thai embassy in the UK for me, only my parents who are both in their 70's, so I will have to go myself.

As far as I know the lady I spoke to was from consular services, and she said that legalising the decree absolute had always been a requirement (3+ years) to get the affirmation stamped. This conflicts with what I have read regards various other foreigners getting married in Thailand. She also said I may need other documents such as criminal record checks, medical certificates etc, for the wedding, but that was down to me to check with the Thai authorities. It sounds like a minefield, hence why I spoke to a solicitor, who says none of this is necessary.

I guess I will have to get both the solicitor and the embassy to confirm in writing exactly whether the decree absolute needs to be legalised. If they conflict then I will have to put them on to each other. It is cheaper to pay the solicitor than pay for a flight back to the UK so I hope it is not required.



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[kannot]

On 11/3/2018 at 10:48 PM, The Names Bond said:

One of my mistakes was that I had not typed an apostrophe in the word "mother's. 

bloody  ridiculous!!!

[worrab]

3 hours ago, Seanyboy said:

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, the 7 days refers to the solicitor completing the marriage process from start to finish, including translations, going to the MFA, etc. The problem I have is that I don't really have anyone i can get to go to the Thai embassy in the UK for me, only my parents who are both in their 70's, so I will have to go myself.

As far as I know the lady I spoke to was from consular services, and she said that legalising the decree absolute had always been a requirement (3+ years) to get the affirmation stamped. This conflicts with what I have read regards various other foreigners getting married in Thailand. She also said I may need other documents such as criminal record checks, medical certificates etc, for the wedding, but that was down to me to check with the Thai authorities. It sounds like a minefield, hence why I spoke to a solicitor, who says none of this is necessary.

I guess I will have to get both the solicitor and the embassy to confirm in writing exactly whether the decree absolute needs to be legalised. If they conflict then I will have to put them on to each other. It is cheaper to pay the solicitor than pay for a flight back to the UK so I hope it is not required.



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You do not have to go to the Thai Embassy. The easiest way is to courier the document from FCO to the Thai Embassy. This you can do online when making the arrangements/payment with the FCO. Then get your parents to send a SAE to the Thai Embassy with the £10 payment, cash or postal order. then the Thai Embassy will send the documents to them and all they have to do then is arrange DHL/Fedex or whoever to get the documents couriered back to you in Thailand. No need to fly to the UK. Only used courier for security and speed.

I did all this in Nov 2018 and got married in Dec. Total cost for all UK, Embassy and MFA comes to around £160. Once the documents are back, make an appointment with the Embassy for the first stage, then go to MFA for translations and their stamps. If you use an agent there then I would advise on 2nd floor at top of the stairs. 2100 baht for all translations and stamps then they will post back to you EMS.

Personally I would do this avenue to make sure you have covered your bases and could be done in 4 or so weeks. And is cheaper than Siam Legal or getting it wrong.

[silverdales]

If you use the agent in the MFA and ask them to post it back to a Thai address by EMS .. how long until you get it back? It was my understanding if you wait yourself it's next day? Thanks 

21 hours ago, worrab said:

You do not have to go to the Thai Embassy. The easiest way is to courier the document from FCO to the Thai Embassy. This you can do online when making the arrangements/payment with the FCO. Then get your parents to send a SAE to the Thai Embassy with the £10 payment, cash or postal order. then the Thai Embassy will send the documents to them and all they have to do then is arrange DHL/Fedex or whoever to get the documents couriered back to you in Thailand. No need to fly to the UK. Only used courier for security and speed.

I did all this in Nov 2018 and got married in Dec. Total cost for all UK, Embassy and MFA comes to around £160. Once the documents are back, make an appointment with the Embassy for the first stage, then go to MFA for translations and their stamps. If you use an agent there then I would advise on 2nd floor at top of the stairs. 2100 baht for all translations and stamps then they will post back to you EMS.

Personally I would do this avenue to make sure you have covered your bases and could be done in 4 or so weeks. And is cheaper than Siam Legal or getting it wrong.

9

Edited January 4, 2019 by silverdales

[worrab]

36 minutes ago, silverdales said:

If you use the agent in the MFA and ask them to post it back to a Thai address by EMS .. how long until you get it back? It was my understanding if you wait yourself it's next day? Thanks 

9

It would be 2-3 days not next day I'm afraid. You leave the papers with the MFA and then they will tell you when to come back. We went to MFA on a Tuesday after the Embassy saw the agent, (good English spoken by her), paid the fee and had the documents back by EMS  on the Friday.

[Seanyboy]

You do not have to go to the Thai Embassy. The easiest way is to courier the document from FCO to the Thai Embassy. This you can do online when making the arrangements/payment with the FCO. Then get your parents to send a SAE to the Thai Embassy with the £10 payment, cash or postal order. then the Thai Embassy will send the documents to them and all they have to do then is arrange DHL/Fedex or whoever to get the documents couriered back to you in Thailand. No need to fly to the UK. Only used courier for security and speed.
I did all this in Nov 2018 and got married in Dec. Total cost for all UK, Embassy and MFA comes to around £160. Once the documents are back, make an appointment with the Embassy for the first stage, then go to MFA for translations and their stamps. If you use an agent there then I would advise on 2nd floor at top of the stairs. 2100 baht for all translations and stamps then they will post back to you EMS.
Personally I would do this avenue to make sure you have covered your bases and could be done in 4 or so weeks. And is cheaper than Siam Legal or getting it wrong.

Ok, thanks for that info, useful to know.

However, another interesting conversation with the Embassy Consular Department yesterday when I tried to get them to commit in writing that I needed to get my Decree Absolute legalised.

I spoke to a different lady from the day before and explained the previous days conversation about how she had said that I needed my Decree Absolute legalised. I was then told that this information was absolutely incorrect, and as long as my Decree Absolute was issued by a UK court, the the original document alone was suffucient. I was then challenged to find anything on their website which specifically said this was required to get the affirmation stamped. I explained that this was the argument I had had the previous day, so she put me on hold whilst she went to check with the head of the Apostille Department. She came back after checking and said that she was 100% correct. She refused to put it in writing as for some reason they are not allowed, but gave me her name and took my details, and told me refer back to her in the case of any issues.

Also, the same day, I received an email from my solicitor saying that he had just done an affirmation that day at the British Embassy using only the original Decree Absolute.

So I guess you "pays your money and takes your choice". My problem is that I am on a very tight timescale for unusual reasons. My Fiance is recently pregnant and we both living in the Middle East. As I'm sure you're aware, pregnancy out of wedlock is illegal there so I have had to send my Fiance back to Thailand until we are married. I have an appointment at the Embassy already, and risk missing it if I send the docs back to be legalised, should it not all go smoothly.

If it is specifically written somewhere that the original UK issued Decree Absolute needs to be legalised to get the affirmation stamped, then I stand corrected but I think I will take my chances. Below is a screenshot of the email I received from my solicitor yesterday.

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[silverdales]

On 1/4/2019 at 11:18 AM, worrab said:

It would be 2-3 days not next day I'm afraid. You leave the papers with the MFA and then they will tell you when to come back. We went to MFA on a Tuesday after the Embassy saw the agent, (good English spoken by her), paid the fee and had the documents back by EMS  on the Friday.

Would they tell me to come back next day or could it be longer? Maybe EMS is the  best way, I'm right in presuming EMS is secure?

[worrab]

15 hours ago, silverdales said:

Would they tell me to come back next day or could it be longer? Maybe EMS is the  best way, I'm right in presuming EMS is secure?

They reckon it is normally 2 days before it would be available for pick up. The agent will send it back EMS which is by far the quickest and most secure way of getting it to you. And it saves you that awful trek to MFA!!

[silverdales]

Thanks for all your advice Worab, so it's quite possible to attend the British embassy in the morning and then translate in the MFA and leave it all there in 1 day or does the MFA close too early to submit it on the same day. Obviously I know the appt at the British embassy needs to be first thing 

[worrab]

12 hours ago, silverdales said:

Thanks for all your advice Worab, so it's quite possible to attend the British embassy in the morning and then translate in the MFA and leave it all there in 1 day or does the MFA close too early to submit it on the same day. Obviously I know the appt at the British embassy needs to be first thing 

No problems with advice as I have recently done all this. 

 

Yes, if you get a morning appointment then go straight to MFA and give it all to the agent, all is done. No waiting about for translation etc. As I said cost there will be THB 2100 for everything. You just go home and wait for the post. All done in one day easily.      

[silverdales]

Well more developments, I sent my decree absolute to the FCO for legalizing and they sent it saying cannot as it's got a electronic stamp from the court. They said either I can get a solicitor to certify or get a proper stamped copy from the court and then reapply to themselves.

Maybe I should wait to see how seanyboy gets on as it sounds unnecessary.

 

When are you going to the embassy Seanyboy??

 

[worrab]

5 hours ago, silverdales said:

Well more developments, I sent my decree absolute to the FCO for legalizing and they sent it saying cannot as it's got a electronic stamp from the court. They said either I can get a solicitor to certify or get a proper stamped copy from the court and then reapply to themselves.

Maybe I should wait to see how seanyboy gets on as it sounds unnecessary.

 

When are you going to the embassy Seanyboy??

 

Oh dear.  Maybe you do not need to jump through this hoop.  Reading Seanyboy's post again, I would just book an appointment with the Embassy and take your decree, affirmation of marriage and your passport and see what happens. Seems like there is a good chance that it will be acceptable.

[silverdales]

Yes I think so because as he says it doesn't say anywhere on their website about this step and the MFA only are interested in the document generated by the embassy. 

[silverdales]

Reading back in this topic the link here talks about birth and death but not divorce certificates, and as their guidance doesn't mention a visit to the FCO, I'll think I'll take a chance and fingers crossed 

On 11/5/2018 at 10:21 AM, worrab said:

I have had a request to provide the information regarding "legalising" documents as required by the MFA for UK citizens, divorce papers, death certificates, degrees etc. Here goes.

 

1. Guidance from www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand and scroll to Services provided elsewhere and click on Three Steps of Legalising a Signature or Seal.( https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/714089/Legalisation_info_June_2018.pdf) Basically everything can be done online for this piece and it is handy if you have a printer. The document you need legalising and the receipt you printed from the FCO go into an A4 envelope. Costs £30 + £5.50 for courier for next stage.

2. In that A4 envelope you put another A4 envelope addressed to The Royal Thai Embassy along with a form you print off and fill in by hand, another copy of the document and a photocopy of your passport. Post these to the FCO in Milton Keynes. Now comes the complicated bit!!

3. You need either family or friends to send the Thai Embassy in London a Postal Cheque for £10 or cash. Unfortunately, and I am using their words here as I phoned them, they are low tech there and do not have a system to use cards. More info at http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/home and scroll to Legalisation.

4. You need to liaise with the Thai Embassy by email to let them know of the arrangements you are making, who is making the payment and, as the courier firm will let you know when they have picked up from the FCO, the delivery day to the Embassy.

5. Your family or friend needs to send a stamped and self addressed A4 envelope with the payment as the Thai Embassy will only return documents to the UK and you cannot use a Courier (DHL, Fedex etc) to collect and return to Thailand.

6. These very good family members of friends can then either post back or courier the documents back to you in Thailand. I had mine couriered back in 4 days by DHL at a cost of around £40 and a very helpful sister!!

7. This is the document that the MFA will want with the Apostille from the FCO and stamp from The Royal Thai Embassy on the back. Not required by the Embassy.

 

Hope this helps and as I said, it is a convoluted process but I managed and it took about 3 weeks altogether. 

 

[dayo202]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 9:19 AM, Seanyboy said:

Ok, thanks for that info, useful to know.

However, another interesting conversation with the Embassy Consular Department yesterday when I tried to get them to commit in writing that I needed to get my Decree Absolute legalised.

I spoke to a different lady from the day before and explained the previous days conversation about how she had said that I needed my Decree Absolute legalised. I was then told that this information was absolutely incorrect, and as long as my Decree Absolute was issued by a UK court, the the original document alone was suffucient. I was then challenged to find anything on their website which specifically said this was required to get the affirmation stamped. I explained that this was the argument I had had the previous day, so she put me on hold whilst she went to check with the head of the Apostille Department. She came back after checking and said that she was 100% correct. She refused to put it in writing as for some reason they are not allowed, but gave me her name and took my details, and told me refer back to her in the case of any issues.

Also, the same day, I received an email from my solicitor saying that he had just done an affirmation that day at the British Embassy using only the original Decree Absolute.

So I guess you "pays your money and takes your choice". My problem is that I am on a very tight timescale for unusual reasons. My Fiance is recently pregnant and we both living in the Middle East. As I'm sure you're aware, pregnancy out of wedlock is illegal there so I have had to send my Fiance back to Thailand until we are married. I have an appointment at the Embassy already, and risk missing it if I send the docs back to be legalised, should it not all go smoothly.

If it is specifically written somewhere that the original UK issued Decree Absolute needs to be legalised to get the affirmation stamped, then I stand corrected but I think I will take my chances. Below is a screenshot of the email I received from my solicitor yesterday.

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Can you supply me with the name of the lady you spoke to in the UK embassy please.

Im in the same boat as you was, I have my Decree Absolute with the red stamp from the courts

back in the UK..

I have a appointment with the embassy next month for my affirmation.

I haven't sent my Decree Absolute of to the FCO for legalised, fingers crossed everything

will go my way next month at the embassy.

[worrab]

20 hours ago, silverdales said:

Yes I think so because as he says it doesn't say anywhere on their website about this step and the MFA only are interested in the document generated by the embassy. 

It does not say anything on the website now. But when it originally came out it did mention divorce certificates as well. Then when the letter about the income affidavit went onto the website, they moved the original post elsewhere and reworded it. That is why I had jumped successfully through the hoops at some expense for a death certificate. Looks like it has all changed again and no need for divorce certificates to go through the UK process.

Personally, I think you will be okay. Chok dee. 

[Seanyboy]

Well more developments, I sent my decree absolute to the FCO for legalizing and they sent it saying cannot as it's got a electronic stamp from the court. They said either I can get a solicitor to certify or get a proper stamped copy from the court and then reapply to themselves.
Maybe I should wait to see how seanyboy gets on as it sounds unnecessary.
 
When are you going to the embassy Seanyboy??
 

My appointment is Feb 21st, I'll let you know how it goes. Suffice to say that the lady at the Embassy assured me legalising original Decree Absolute's was unnecessary after consulting her superior.

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[Seanyboy]

Can you supply me with the name of the lady you spoke to in the UK embassy please.
Im in the same boat as you was, I have my Decree Absolute with the red stamp from the courts
back in the UK..
I have a appointment with the embassy next month for my affirmation.
I haven't sent my Decree Absolute of to the FCO for legalised, fingers crossed everything
will go my way next month at the embassy.

Check you PM's for the name.

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[silverdales]

On 1/11/2019 at 12:22 PM, Seanyboy said:

My appointment is Feb 21st, I'll let you know how it goes. Suffice to say that the lady at the Embassy assured me legalising original Decree Absolute's was unnecessary after consulting her superior.

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Yes please let us know

Cheers

[Seanyboy]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:30 PM, silverdales said:

Yes please let us know

Cheers

A little late I know and I’m sure this has been cleared up, but for info, no the the Decree Absolute did not require legalising. Just the original doc with the red court stamp was needed to get the affirmation stamped.

[dirtybirty]

A little late I know and I’m sure this has been cleared up, but for info, no the the Decree Absolute did not require legalising. Just the original doc with the red court stamp was needed to get the affirmation stamped.

Correct did it 2 weeks ago legalizing of decree not required

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