Synagogue massacre suspect in court; Trump to visit grieving Pittsburgh

[billd766]

13 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

 

I know the feeling!

To quote from a Kenneth Williams movie.

 

Infamy. Infamy. They've all got it Infamy.

 

It seems apt for both you and sanemax.

 

Also for your favourite POTUS.

Edited November 2, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[Morch]

20 hours ago, sanemax said:

No one is suggesting that people should not oppose this massacre , no one is supporting the people that carried the massacre out .

  Its the left wing who are using this attack to further their political causes and to attack Trump . 

 

So, following your logic, we may talk about the left-wing supposedly using this attack to further political aims, but not about the murderer being of the right-wing, or how right-wing rhetoric is tied with the perceptions which contributed to the attack. Most of all, we are not supposed to talk about any links between Trump and such rhetoric, nor does Trump (according to your posts) got much to do with extreme right-elements.

 

Where, exactly, did you get the notion that Trump is apolitical? Or, for that matter, that referencing current events in the context of politics is out-of-line?

 

What your posts are about is deflection. Trump is not to be criticized, or discussed in any negative way, for whatever contrived reason you come up with on any given topic.

 

 

[Morch]

20 hours ago, sanemax said:

I was talking about posts on Thai visa , and you are using extreme to proave a point that I didnt make.

   I cannot deal with this anymore .

People just dont seem to be able to understand anything , I cannot keep explainng 

 

And somehow, I'm pretty sure you'll show up for future instances where denials and deflection involving Trump's words, views, policies, actions and conduct are called for. I think most people partaking in these topic understand rather well where you're coming from and what you're trying to achieve.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And somehow, I'm pretty sure you'll show up for future instances where denials and deflection involving Trump's words, views, policies, actions and conduct are called for. I think most people partaking in these topic understand rather well where you're coming from and what you're trying to achieve.

In this thread I was replying to a poster who made the claim that this massacre was inspired by Trump stating that the South American caravan  on the way to the USA was being funded by Jews and thats why they carried out the massacre .

   That is what was posted .

The facts are that Trump didnt state that the caravan was being funded by Jews , he answered a question from a Journalist about whether Soros was funding it , he just replied that he didnt know , but he wouldnt be surprised if it was so .

   Also , that was said two weeks AFTER the massacre , how can Trumps reply have inspired the massacre , when he said it AFTER the massacre  happened ?

  That is why I posted what I did .

BTW , you seem to be implying that I am an anti semite nazi who supports the killing of Jews , well, the facts are that I'm a stanch supporter of the Israeli cause .

  

 

[Morch]

15 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yes quiet frightening 

 

You seem to be easily frightened.

 

The topic is about a murderer, who's also of the right-wing, and holds extreme views. He expressed such views on right-wing websites, and these echoed some of the rhetoric often used by Trump.

 

The end result is 11 innocent people dead.

 

And yet, the President doesn't seem to consider his words might have a negative impact - and continues with the very same rhetoric related to this attack.

 

Now, that's frightening.

 

Deny, deflect and spin to your heart's content.

[kannot]

On 10/31/2018 at 2:33 PM, farcanell said:

hes on record as having told more lies than any other president

surely even ONE is  one too many?

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You seem to be easily frightened.

The topic is about a murderer, who's also of the right-wing, and holds extreme views. He expressed such views on right-wing websites, and these echoed some of the rhetoric often used by Trump.

The end result is 11 innocent people dead.

And yet, the President doesn't seem to consider his words might have a negative impact - and continues with the very same rhetoric related to this attack.

Now, that's frightening.

Deny, deflect and spin to your heart's content.

The killer was a deranged Nazi extremist with a hatred of Jews and he also disliked Trump

I havent seen anything from Trump that could be considered to be anti semetic , indeed Trump seems to be pro Jewish , with the moving of the Embassy to Jerusalem .

  The killer was a deranged Nazi and his actions had nothing to do with Trump , the Left are just trying to blame Trump , because they dont like Trump

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed.

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, sanemax said:

In this thread I was replying to a poster who made the claim that this massacre was inspired by Trump stating that the South American caravan  on the way to the USA was being funded by Jews and thats why they carried out the massacre .

   That is what was posted .

The facts are that Trump didnt state that the caravan was being funded by Jews , he answered a question from a Journalist about whether Soros was funding it , he just replied that he didnt know , but he wouldnt be surprised if it was so .

   Also , that was said two weeks AFTER the massacre , how can Trumps reply have inspired the massacre , when he said it AFTER the massacre  happened ?

  That is why I posted what I did .

BTW , you seem to be implying that I am an anti semite nazi who supports the killing of Jews , well, the facts are that I'm a stanch supporter of the Israeli cause .

  

 

 

You can deny any and all connection between Trump's words and the attack. The fact stands that the murderer used the same canards, the same memes, the same rationale and the same words while expressing his views.

 

You don't want to acknowledge there's a connection? Fine. Most people seem to feel otherwise.

 

And, "two weeks after the massacre"? Your time perception seems to be off. Or maybe, you were trying to reference the mail bomb thing? I dunno. Either way, Trump's rhetoric and that prevalent on right-wing circles was around before the massacre. There were plenty of such comments even on TVF topics predating it, and dealing with the caravan.

 

If you've failed to notice Soros being used as the stand-in "Jew" on many antisemitic comments and conspiracy theories, you're haven't been paying attention. Since it was discussed in length on these topics, I doubt you aren't aware of it. So yes, not every criticism of Soros is antisemitic, but there is some undeniable correlation between him being featured and holding such extreme views. In the case of the murderer, this is all the more obvious. If your next comment would be to assert that Trump might not have been aware of it - either pull the other one, or accept that the President you support is an uninformed person, who falls short of the requirements of the office he holds. 

 

I have not implied anything such as you claim regarding your positions. You're simply making things up.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

And somehow, I'm pretty sure you'll show up for future instances where denials and deflection involving Trump's words, views, policies, actions and conduct are called for. I think most people partaking in these topic understand rather well where you're coming from and what you're trying to achieve.

OK, do explain what you meant by the last sentence .

You made a vague allegation and maybe I interpreted it wrong  .

Where am I "coming from" and what am I "trying to achieve" ?

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The killer was a deranged Nazi extremist with a hatred of Jews and he also disliked Trump

I havent seen anything from Trump that could be considered to be anti semetic , indeed Trump seems to be pro Jewish , with the moving of the Embassy to Jerusalem .

  The killer was a deranged Nazi and his actions had nothing to do with Trump , the Left are just trying to blame Trump , because they dont like Trump

 

While I appreciate the effort you put in to distance the murderer from Trump, it doesn't wash. The murderer did not "dislike" Trump - he actually identified with much of what Trump was supposedly for, but was dismayed Trump haven't quite lived to expectations and early promises. That's not exactly what you're trying to imply.

 

I haven't claimed Trump was antisemitic. That some of his supporters are, and that he does not reject them outright due to political considerations is one of them things which makes politics what it is.

 

That you wish to disassociate Trump for any relation of responsibility for the attack doesn't hold water. All you do, on this and other topics, is deny Trump got anything to do with anything negative. That's not an argument, that's preaching a creed.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

OK, do explain what you meant by the last sentence .

You made a vague allegation and maybe I interpreted it wrong  .

Where am I "coming from" and what am I "trying to achieve" ?

 

That?

It is simply to say that you're an ardent Trump supporter. And that you'll post pretty much whatever nonsense is necessary to protect your guy. You invest a whole lot of effort, across multiple topics, in deflecting criticism of Trump - even on those directly dealing with Trump. What you're trying to achieve seems to be a total disassociation between Trump and negative comments regarding him.

Good luck with that.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That?

It is simply to say that you're an ardent Trump supporter. And that you'll post pretty much whatever nonsense is necessary to protect your guy. You invest a whole lot of effort, across multiple topics, in deflecting criticism of Trump - even on those directly dealing with Trump. What you're trying to achieve seems to be a total disassociation between Trump and negative comments regarding him.

Good luck with that.

You are trying to portray myself as being an ardent Trump supporter who defends him in various threads .

  The reality is that I have little interest in U.S. politics and often complain about him getting a mention in threads that have nothing to do with him , I would prefer it if this forum didnt mention him and U.S. politics at all .

   (And you was right , it wasnt two weeks , it was seven days spread over two different weeks)

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You are trying to portray myself as being an ardent Trump supporter who defends him in various threads .

  The reality is that I have little interest in U.S. politics and often complain about him getting a mention in threads that have nothing to do with him , I would prefer it if this forum didnt mention him and U.S. politics at all .

   (And you was right , it wasnt two weeks , it was seven days spread over two different weeks)

 

I'm not "portraying" you as anything. I base my comments on what you post, and your input is pretty consistent when it come to Trump. For someone who doesn't have much interest in US politics, you sure do post a lot in topic covering US politics, especially as related to Trump (case in hand, current topic).

 

And yes, I get it you would prefer no negative references to Trump. That's quite obvious. Adulation is apparently alright, though. So is taking the words of a known blatant liar at face value, or trying to offer interpretations in an effort to make them almost acceptable.

 

Your time perception is still off. And similar comments were aired prior to the attack. Deflect away.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, kannot said:

surely even ONE is  one too many?

One would think... I just heard the dreaded fact checkers updated their number to over 6000 since taking office... that’s about 10 per day, I suppose

 

ironically, his approval rating is still reasonably high..... which leaves me wondering....  <deleted>?

 

make believe and marshmellows must beat out reality, I suppose.

[CharlieH]

Off topic post removed.

Post with oversized uneditable txt also removed.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

In his last tweet on that page he remarked that the Office of the President was respected.

 

I agree with him. The Office WAS respected, but not so the occupant.

Hey CaptRon2 Don't you ever have any words that you can write instead of the confused emoji all the time?

[Skeptic7]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

Hey CaptRon2 Don't you ever have any words that you can write instead of the confused emoji all the time?

He does! Gave my post the "sad" face. Perhaps he was just confused! 

[Jingthing]

This clip says it all. An amazing young woman from Pittsburgh Bari Weiss that knew some of the victims speaks.

 

 

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-9ry71e0fU&t=15s

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

The clip to play here --

 

 

[Nilats]

Thanks for posting this Jingthing, I agree with many things she says... I wasn't actually aware that things got to this level in America... I'm starting to understand your anxiety.

 

I know/knew many American Jews in Israel - definitely not the "democrat" type at all... except maybe 1 or 2 - but they are all good people imo. I do agree that Jews are targeted and judged much stronger than any other people in almost any situation... the same goes for Israel. It would be wrong to let some lunatics to scare you to break your relationship with the "republican" or pro-Israel type of Jews though... maybe you should get together more often to get to know each others opinions... it's all your family after all, regardless of politics. I wish all the best to the whole community of American Jews... hope that things get better and nothing like this happens again.

[Jingthing]

This article expands on the same issues. The white nationalist terrorist in Pittsburgh was not going after all religious people. He was specifically going after Jewish people.

 

This disease of antisemitism comes both the right and the left. We see examples of both kinds on posts on this forum pretty much every day. Sometimes explicit. Sometimes subtle. You might call milder cases casual unconscious antisemitism. In my observation often a result of clear brainwashing from an early age about Jewish global control conspiracy theories. That's hard to shake for most people because often they don't even realize they're infected.

 

 

 

"The Pittsburgh shooter didn’t hate ‘religion,’ he hated Jews. We should say so.

 

The impulse to universalize anti-Semitism also erases its victims."

 

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-pittsburgh-shooter-didnt-hate-religion-he-hated-jews-we-should-say-so/2018/11/01/93343918-de05-11e8-b732-3c72cbf131f2_story.html

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nilats]

Morch I don't know if maybe I said something funny... but I have experienced antisemitism myself a few times when I was growing up... and later I found out if you don't tell anyone you are related to that group - you actually rarely have a problem. I don't like to talk about any of this stuff. My immediate family who are Jews survived ww2 - they managed to get out of the encircled city during ww2 - I heard the story a few times... but more distant family didn't survive it, all their friends also died in that city. I know a few things on the subject... but I don't want to be a victim or feel entitlement to any privileges because of that - Jews were specifically targeted but millions of other people also died there. In any case I meant it from the heart - I hope it never happens again. Nothing will ever change in this regard - it's pointless trying to fix antisemitism - it's more important to see things coming and try to stay out of harms way imo.

[Patriot1066]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This article expands on the same issues. The white nationalist terrorist in Pittsburgh was not going after all religious people. He was specifically going after Jewish people.

 

This disease of antisemitism comes both the right and the left. We see examples of both kinds on posts on this forum pretty much every day. Sometimes explicit. Sometimes subtle. You might call milder cases casual unconscious antisemitism. In my observation often a result of clear brainwashing from an early age about Jewish global control conspiracy theories. That's hard to shake for most people because often they don't even realize they're infected.

 

 

 

"The Pittsburgh shooter didn’t hate ‘religion,’ he hated Jews. We should say so.

 

The impulse to universalize anti-Semitism also erases its victims."

 

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-pittsburgh-shooter-didnt-hate-religion-he-hated-jews-we-should-say-so/2018/11/01/93343918-de05-11e8-b732-3c72cbf131f2_story.html

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow more Washington post news so interesting to see their balanced views!

 

US today says shooter hated Trump so hard to say he was left or right, but not right obviously if he hated Trump as he is center right.

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/29/donald-trump-robert-bowers-racist-anti-semitic-synagogue-shooting-column/1800755002/

 

He also hated muslims so might have murdered Jews but may if had the opportunity murdered muslims, from the far left Guardian news paper below.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/27/pittsburgh-shooting-suspect-antisemitism

 

Perhapse he targeted Jews as easier to blend in as most Jewish people have assimilated very well, wher he would have looked out of place possibly visiting a mosque?

 

But I agree there is a lot of anti semetism about in the likes of the far left U.K. Labor party (Same as Democrats from US  in far left thinking)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229

 

So bad that the leftists are being investigated by the Police, quiet rightly as well. Bearing in mind the Police is controlled by far left political management. The woman Ms Dick in the BBC has a degree in divinity

 

 

 

 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed. 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Nilats said:

Morch I don't know if maybe I said something funny... but I have experienced antisemitism myself a few times when I was growing up... and later I found out if you don't tell anyone you are related to that group - you actually rarely have a problem. I don't like to talk about any of this stuff. My immediate family who are Jews survived ww2 - they managed to get out of the encircled city during ww2 - I heard the story a few times... but more distant family didn't survive it, all their friends also died in that city. I know a few things on the subject... but I don't want to be a victim or feel entitlement to any privileges because of that - Jews were specifically targeted but millions of other people also died there. In any case I meant it from the heart - I hope it never happens again. Nothing will ever change in this regard - it's pointless trying to fix antisemitism - it's more important to see things coming and try to stay out of harms way imo.

 

I'm amused by your "observations", and by the comments made while obviously (and self-admittedly) not having much clue regarding issues commented on. As for the above, I'll file that along with your other handy personal anecdote posts.

 

It might be impossible to "fix" antisemitism, but there's no need to accept it, put up with it or ignore it. The President engaging his voter base in a manner and style empowering antisemitism (and others form of bigotry) sure seems to make things worse. For obvious reasons, supporters and other interested parties are advocating a dissociation of Trump's words from reality - in this case, at least.   

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Wow more Washington post news so interesting to see their balanced views!

 

US today says shooter hated Trump so hard to say he was left or right, but not right obviously if he hated Trump as he is center right.

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/29/donald-trump-robert-bowers-racist-anti-semitic-synagogue-shooting-column/1800755002/ 

 

He also hated muslims so might have murdered Jews but may if had the opportunity murdered muslims, from the far left Guardian news paper below.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/27/pittsburgh-shooting-suspect-antisemitism 

 

Perhapse he targeted Jews as easier to blend in as most Jewish people have assimilated very well, wher he would have looked out of place possibly visiting a mosque?

 

But I agree there is a lot of anti semetism about in the likes of the far left U.K. Labor party (Same as Democrats from US  in far left thinking)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229 

 

So bad that the leftists are being investigated by the Police, quiet rightly as well. Bearing in mind the Police is controlled by far left political management. The woman Ms Dick in the BBC has a degree in divinity

 

 

 

 

 

 

More nonsense. But do talk about "balanced views"....

 

The first article linked is an opinion piece by James Robbins. Look him up, and maybe you'll get a clue as to why the damage control mode is engaged. Spins aside - it isn't hard to say whether the the murderer was left or right, unless someone is trying really hard to muddy the waters.

 

The second link doesn't support your nonsense "theory". The murderer's warped views are detailed, and it's quite obvious that there's a hierarchy of hate, as it were. The reason for picking the synagogue in question may very well be the community's involvement with the refugees and organizations supporting the "invading" caravan.

 

As for your third link - there is antisemitism expressed by left-wingers, yes. I don't know that there's any related recent attacks attributed to either fringe Democrats (US) or Labor (UK) or rhetoric used. Kinda nice how associating the current, actual murderer with, well...pretty much anything right-related (Alt-right, white-supremacists, Nazis, Republicans, Trump's base, Trump, or Trump's rhetoric) - is rejected outright. Not so when trying to spin things the other way around.

 

 

[Becker]

3 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Wow more Washington post news so interesting to see their balanced views!

 

US today says shooter hated Trump so hard to say he was left or right, but not right obviously if he hated Trump as he is center right.

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/29/donald-trump-robert-bowers-racist-anti-semitic-synagogue-shooting-column/1800755002/

 

He also hated muslims so might have murdered Jews but may if had the opportunity murdered muslims, from the far left Guardian news paper below.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/27/pittsburgh-shooting-suspect-antisemitism

 

Perhapse he targeted Jews as easier to blend in as most Jewish people have assimilated very well, wher he would have looked out of place possibly visiting a mosque?

 

But I agree there is a lot of anti semetism about in the likes of the far left U.K. Labor party (Same as Democrats from US  in far left thinking)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229

 

So bad that the leftists are being investigated by the Police, quiet rightly as well. Bearing in mind the Police is controlled by far left political management. The woman Ms Dick in the BBC has a degree in divinity

 

 

 

 

"Bearing in mind the Police is controlled by far left political management."

 

LOL, if it weren't for "fringe elements" like yourself TVF would be much more boring. Thanks for contributing!

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, Becker said:

"Bearing in mind the Police is controlled by far left political management."

 

LOL, if it weren't for "fringe elements" like yourself TVF would be much more boring. Thanks for contributing!

One man's entertainment is another man's invitation to a vomit bag.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Wow more Washington post news so interesting to see their balanced views!

 

US today says shooter hated Trump so hard to say he was left or right, but not right obviously if he hated Trump as he is center right.

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/29/donald-trump-robert-bowers-racist-anti-semitic-synagogue-shooting-column/1800755002/

 

He also hated muslims so might have murdered Jews but may if had the opportunity murdered muslims, from the far left Guardian news paper below.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/27/pittsburgh-shooting-suspect-antisemitism

 

Perhapse he targeted Jews as easier to blend in as most Jewish people have assimilated very well, wher he would have looked out of place possibly visiting a mosque?

 

But I agree there is a lot of anti semetism about in the likes of the far left U.K. Labor party (Same as Democrats from US  in far left thinking)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229

 

So bad that the leftists are being investigated by the Police, quiet rightly as well. Bearing in mind the Police is controlled by far left political management. The woman Ms Dick in the BBC has a degree in divinity

 

 

 

 

U.S. Law Enforcement Failed to See the Threat of White Nationalism. Now They Don’t Know How to Stop It.

For two decades, domestic counterterrorism strategy has ignored the rising danger of far-right extremism. In the atmosphere of willful indifference, a virulent movement has grown and metastasized.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/magazine/FBI-charlottesville-white-nationalism-far-right.html?action=click&amp;module=Top Stories&amp;pgtype=Homepage