Thai army paid much, much more for same helo used by King power CEO

[Thian]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Because it wouldn't fit into your narrative that there is no corruption in the military? 

Well first prove it before starting to slander the junta. It seems that nobody here knows what they're talking 'bout...

[Dibbler]

Perhaps you should actually read the full article before accusing others of being idiots !
It quite clearly pointed out the differences between the 2 makes and also mentioned that military outfitted models have a price premium.
The point made was that the list price of a military outfited model was 480 million baht , the sums paid were between 670 and 735 million baht , quite a difference.

The difference is partly explained by the huge kickbacks paid by companies to secure contracts for military hardware in this country including but not limited to all the luxury goods mentioned by other posters in this thread, permanently open rooms in luxury hotels, golf clubs and hi roller entertainment, “study” tours to foreign countries and scholarships for offspring, and of course cold hard cash sweeteners. This is standard practice in many countries but according to people in the know it makes Thailand one of the most expensive places in the region to do business, and why many of the smaller suppliers left town years ago.


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[Cheops]

The ones for the Army came with tea cups, hence tea money needed to be paid.

[Mychoicetobehere]

17 hours ago, overherebc said:

Because military helicopters have a lot more dedicated and specialist equipment that is fitted after the basic airframe is bought. Different radar, plating, rocket pods, gun control systems, anti-missile flare launchers, military radio systems bla bla bla.

Perfectly true.  Not even the same type of helicoptor.  Different league.  That won't stop the anti thai troll conspiracy theorists on TV though.

[hobz]

31 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Will you stop spoiling the Red Shirt and Fan Room Rhetoric.

Well I bet they will claim that the 10x price tag just means that US military spending is even more corrupt! (It's actually possible lol 555, wouldn't surprise me 55)

[lvr181]

18 hours ago, ukrules said:

Why is the Italian made helicopter more expensive ?

 

Thai government greed, that's why.

And individuals greed via brown envelopes? 

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, Thian said:

Well first prove it before starting to slander the junta. It seems that nobody here knows what they're talking 'bout...

You got me. No one can prove military corruption. You can wear corruption on your wrist, still no prove. Investigation? They will be cleared of any wrongdoing like the Park when massive kickbacks were revealed. Court clear them. GT200? Jailed the supplier but no official investigation of the military procurement. This case which has been 'slandered' by Srisuwan, the military just ignored. Every knows that the military is a black-hole for corruption; not you. 

[hobz]

Wether the price of these choppers was fair or not.. anyone who thinks the junta is not corrupt is seriously naive.

[Brunovski]

18 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

 the military paid nearly three times as much as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha did for the same type of chopper that he lost his life in. And Srisuwan, a persistent good-governance petitioner, wanted to know why.

 

I think we all know why, the real question is WHO ?

I think a job for "Big Joke" to find out what really happened there.

[HAKAPALITA]

Thats lefty logic


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[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

 the military paid nearly three times as much as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha did for the same type of chopper that he lost his life in. And Srisuwan, a persistent good-governance petitioner, wanted to know why.

 

I think we all know why, the real question is WHO ?

Normal selling price goes to the manufacturer
2nd value goes to the government

3rd value goes to various pockets.... hence 3X original price !

 

[Torrens54]

Maybe you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR ?

The ones bought by the Military are STILL FLYING Aren’t They?

 

[JAG]

6 minutes ago, Torrens54 said:

Maybe you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR ?

The ones bought by the Military are STILL FLYING Aren’t They?

 

Well, if you read the article in the OP, 5/12 of them anyway!

[overherebc]

23 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Normal selling price goes to the manufacturer
2nd value goes to the government

3rd value goes to various pockets.... hence 3X original price !

 

Different type of helicopter.

Totally different specification.

Totally different build using totally different materials.

Totally different materials for rotor blades, very expensive to make, and that's one part only.

Try to think on the lines of a bog standard Jaguar XJ and the armoured version the XJ Sentinel. They may look similar, and that's different from the same, but one of them is 3 times the price of the other. Make a wild guess.

[Thaiwrath]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Different type of helicopter.

Totally different specification.

Totally different build using totally different materials.

Totally different materials for rotor blades, very expensive to make.

Try to think on the lines of a bog standard Jaguar XJ and the armoured version the XJ Sentinel. They may look similar, and that's different from the same, but one of them is 3 times the price of the other. Make a wild guess.

If you, and the other apologists on here, believe no one in authority personally gained from this contract, you could only be described as delusional.

Thais in authority have been proved, and some convicted, of improper, personal financial gains (fraud and corruption) in nearly every aspect of Thai life, including monies intended for the poor and handicapped syphoned off, but you think this helicopter deal was squeaky clean ! ???? 

[Thian]

13 minutes ago, JAG said:

Hey, this is the chap who was, a couple of months ago, advocating that poor people should be forced out of Bangkok because they cluttered the place up, and hindered his access to the air-conditioned shopping malls!

 

Exactly, and since they're gone the streets improved a lot....i hope they are in your village now so you don't have to drive an hour for the nearest store....

[Jadam]

Quote

A military-outfitted AW139 helicopter, the same model bought by the Thai army, reportedly sold for about 348 million baht apiece in 2013

Quote

AW149s, a more recent model bought by the Thai army last year, sell on the market for about 480 million baht

Quote

Thai army ... paid 675 million baht to 737 million baht

That's a lot of duty or some big kickbacks (or both).

 

Quote

The defense spokesman added that the military is prepared to explain about the issue when Srisuwan files his complaint.

Okay guys, I bought us some time, but we need to come up with a good story by Monday!

[overherebc]

43 minutes ago, overherebc said:

As have people in every country in the world. 2 arrested today for one of the biggest bank scams. and one with a warrant on his head, USA involved in that one.

This is not my country and I will leave it to those who want to do something about their laws and their government to do what they want. I'm not interested in politics in the slightest and if you read all my posts in this thread they all point only in the direction that military spec' aircraft are more expensive than the civilian model or similar model.

If you want to discuss corruption, politics etc go ahead, but to quote the famous expression,

include me out.

Samuel Goldwyn.

@Thaiwrath 

Sorry my post made you sad.

[Thian]

1 hour ago, Thaiwrath said:

Thais in authority have been proved, and some convicted, of improper, personal financial gains (fraud and corruption) in nearly every aspect of Thai life, including monies intended for the poor and handicapped syphoned off, but you think this helicopter deal was squeaky clean ! ???? 

Ohh now we got to the point.....so because previous leaders were corrupt the junta also must be corrupt....thanks for explaining that!

 

Will that ever change in your wise opinion or will it always stay like that?????

 

 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Thian said:

liked by the same millions who also choose 500baht for their democratic votes.....

500 B will put food on the table for a day or two. Will not buy hearts and minds for 3 elections. By the way, farmers don’t have time to listen to rap music. Most millions are the educated Bangkokian yellow shirts.

[lvr181]

4 hours ago, Thian said:

less corruption,

And your positive proof of that is....?

 

Yes, the current Govt may have done some worthwhile things but 4 years of unchallenged power they could have done a lot more. A Govt that continually tells lies to its people and the world, IMHO, is not really trustworthy.

[Thian]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Oh come on. Internet coverage started in earnest back in 2005/06 by True, AIS and Dtac etc. You hoping no one check, right? Your lord don’t have any role in installation.  

Right, so why do my IT-friends work upcountry now to install internet in rural area's??

 

I better speak to my dog since you have no idea what you're saying mate.

[andygrr]

 Nothing new there same in the UK for instance a motor that retails for around say 500 pounds 

might be purchased for use by the Royal Navy at a cost of 2000 pounds. The reason is often due

to the amount of documentation required by the MOD. Sometimes individual component might

requires quality assurance certificates as to where the material came from including batch numbers

of stock material used and test results. The price the MOD pay is crazy but so is the amount of

work generated by the documentation required for some government contracts. And I would 

imagine there to be a lot with any items used in aviation.

[Vermaric]

23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think it safe to assume there is no 'official' import duty on Military Items....   but it would appear there is a 'taxation' of sorts... No surprise there, dig a little deeper and I think the Majority of such items are significantly more costly than transparency can account for. 

Maybe it had something to do with using a special green paint?

[hobz]

18 minutes ago, andygrr said:

 Nothing new there same in the UK for instance a motor that retails for around say 500 pounds 

might be purchased for use by the Royal Navy at a cost of 2000 pounds. The reason is often due

to the amount of documentation required by the MOD. Sometimes individual component might

requires quality assurance certificates as to where the material came from including batch numbers

of stock material used and test results. The price the MOD pay is crazy but so is the amount of

work generated by the documentation required for some government contracts. And I would 

imagine there to be a lot with any items used in aviation.

Or maybe there was fraud involved. It happens even in so called "not corrupt" countries like Sweden so why wouldn't it happen in Thailand where corruption is rampant?

 

 

[Chris Lawrence]

A tragedy occurs to one of Thailand's finest industrial magnate, only to uncover a very alarming statistic to a military purchase. The checks and balances are needed.

 

[Huckenfell]

Big question now is......Who got the spare change ???

[Patriot1066]

2 hours ago, andygrr said:

 Nothing new there same in the UK for instance a motor that retails for around say 500 pounds

might be purchased for use by the Royal Navy at a cost of 2000 pounds. The reason is often due

to the amount of documentation required by the MOD. Sometimes individual component might

requires quality assurance certificates as to where the material came from including batch numbers

of stock material used and test results. The price the MOD pay is crazy but so is the amount of

work generated by the documentation required for some government contracts. And I would

imagine there to be a lot with any items used in aviation.

That is very correct that a Mil spec will generally have differences from a civilian version, or will have been subject to additional testing and proving along the way.

 

Then there's additional things to add on: like Green paint, Stick on numbers, Stick on flags, Maintenance items as spares packages usually kept, Training for ground crew, etc etc etc it all adds up. As my old mum used to say 'watch the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves'. (That's sterling £ not weight).

 

Private Companies who have an international presence often by with favourable currency exchange rates or in low tax countries. They also buy new in one company depreciate and sell to one of their own so costing is quiet difficult.

 

https://corporatejetinvestor.com/articles/a-quick-guide-to-corporate-aircraft-registration/

 

The Thai military buys quiet a lot of helicopters so should know what they are doing?

 

http://helihub.com/tag/royal-thai-army/

 

[Bundooman]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:04 PM, overherebc said:

Because military helicopters have a lot more dedicated and specialist equipment that is fitted after the basic airframe is bought. Different radar, plating, rocket pods, gun control systems, anti-missile flare launchers, military radio systems bla bla bla.

Yes, of course - bla bla bla…...

 

But the next question is, did the military helicopters come with all those systems included that you speak of - or was it the same as the one that crashed?

Or, on top of the price paid threefold more for the military choppers, did all those things come as extras?

 

Please expand on your because, because, because. Thank you.

 

 

 

[soon2bexpat]

32 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

Yes, of course - bla bla bla…...

 

But the next question is, did the military helicopters come with all those systems included that you speak of - or was it the same as the one that crashed?

Or, on top of the price paid threefold more for the military choppers, did all those things come as extras?

 

Please expand on your because, because, because. Thank you.

 

 

 

The one that crashed is a different type of helicopter. The Leicester City helicopter was a AW169. The Thai Military use AW 139 which is larger than the AW 169. The AW 149 which has also been mentioned is a military version of the AW 189 which again is larger than a AW 139.