Thailand’s English proficiency is getting worse: study

[nong38]

I went in 3 bookshops today, apart from thai/English dictionaries nothing in English, all cartoon books apart from a few business books that no one ever seems to pick up. not even a map between them even of Thailand. The country is adrift on its own, it exists in its own world where Thailand rules where other languages don't need to be spoken, I do sometimes wonder how the country works then I looked under the table and saw the envelopes, in Thai of course.

[DUNROAMIN]

Its no wonder the kids don't learn English here, as the majority of so called English teachers cannot speak the language, let alone understand the English language. My Thai wife had two teenage girls, one going to uni and the other to a local high school. They both would ask for help with some of their English assignments, and to my surprise even the written assignments for them to complete by correcting punctuation and grammar weren't written correctly. What chance has the next generation of Thais got, when they are being taught by incompetent teachers????.

Unfortunately, Thais remind me of an Ostrich, when it all gets too hard.

I am not perfect with written English, so please hold back the red pen.

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, nong38 said:

I went in 3 bookshops today, apart from thai/English dictionaries nothing in English, all cartoon books apart from a few business books that no one ever seems to pick up. not even a map between them even of Thailand. The country is adrift on its own, it exists in its own world where Thailand rules where other languages don't need to be spoken, I do sometimes wonder how the country works then I looked under the table and saw the envelopes, in Thai of course.

One only has to look at the pound vs the baht to see the result of that course you describe as drifting.  Thai people are buying English football clubs not the reverse the last time I looked. 

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

It's true, and I did learn sufficient Thai to get around. But, i appreciate it only for the utility to avoid getting taken advantage of. 

 

Educated Thais and uneducated ones alike, that I have encountered, generally show disinterest of anything intellectual. So, what to talk about? They still don't open up, even when you speak Thai. Or, especially when they know you can understand them, they often become very quite around you. 

 

That says alot! 

Yes, it is one of the most striking - and saddening - aspects of Thai culture that even educated people seem to display very little intellectual curiosity about the world, foreign cultures, philosophy, psychology, outer space, the environment, or anything 'intellectual' at all. I have very rarely seen Thais discussing and debating 'intellectual' subjects - whereas I frequently came upon this in the West (especially in Germany, where people struck me as generally very intelligent and keen to learn). The Thais seem to live in their own little bubble, which is mainly centred around food, clothes, 'playing Facebook', and wanting to know where everyone 'is going' (the Thais are the nosiest nation on earth!).

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Its no wonder the kids don't learn English here, as the majority of so called English teachers cannot speak the language, let alone understand the English language. My Thai wife had two teenage girls, one going to uni and the other to a local high school. They both would ask for help with some of their English assignments, and to my surprise even the written assignments for them to complete by correcting punctuation and grammar weren't written correctly. What chance has the next generation of Thais got, when they are being taught by incompetent teachers????.

Unfortunately, Thais remind me of an Ostrich, when it all gets too hard.

I am not perfect with written English, so please hold back the red pen.

If English was important to school students they would be in a world of hurt.  They learn English from companies after they get out of school.  Someone will eventually figure out that one needs to pay students to learn English. 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes, it is one of the most striking - and saddening - aspects of Thai culture that even educated people seem to display very little intellectual curiosity about the world, foreign cultures, philosophy, psychology, outer space, the environment, or anything 'intellectual' at all. I have very rarely seen Thais discussing and debating 'intellectual' subjects - whereas I frequently came upon this in the West (especially in Germany, where people struck me as generally very intelligent and keen to learn). The Thais seem to live in their own little bubble, which is mainly centred around food, clothes, 'playing Facebook', and wanting to know where everyone 'is going' (the Thais are the nosiest nation on earth!).

I disagree.  Thais I know are educated, traveled and curious.  It is difficult to get into the real Thailand for most people from the West as they have never lived and worked in Thailand.  It is obvious you don't live in Thailand have you ever been here and actually met some Thai people in person?

Edited November 3, 2018 by marcusarelus

[nong38]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

One only has to look at the pound vs the baht to see the result of that course you describe as drifting.  Thai people are buying English football clubs not the reverse the last time I looked. 

They bought Manchester City and had to give it back and one did own Leicester City so that's one out of 20 hardly a strong case, Leicester were cheap and got lucky once.

[marcusarelus]

Just now, nong38 said:

They bought Manchester City and had to give it back and one did own Leicester City so that's one out of 20 hardly a strong case, Leicester were cheap and got lucky once.

And about the pound vs the baht? You forgot that part of my post eh?

[onlycw]

7 hours ago, thequietman said:

I was promised a 5% salary increase year on year. This year reduced to 4% due to a new accountant. We are talking a very small amount in the overall scheme of things but to say it was massively demotivating is an understatement.

 

There is however, money for jaunts, nonsense posters that are grammatically incorrect and any other crap that is for show.

Motivating the NES is low on their list of priorities as the white devil needs to be undermined at all times. 

 

It is truly hilarious watching their little faces every year, as they look confused as to why another foreigner has quit ..... and so on and on it goes, with nothing being learned.

Hear, hear!

 

Schools really need to conduct leaving interviews. Priceless, getting the unfiltered feedback of those who have no political interest as they are leaving. 

 

Air conditioned rooms. Then the Thai TA opens up the door and windows. Yes, within minutes, the room temperature will be hot. Mission accomplished?!? What are they thinking?!?

---

To combat midnight runs, my school delays the salary payment by 10 days. 

[marcusarelus]

It is very difficult to emphasize English when you are hit from all sides with nationalism.

[Fex Bluse]

20 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I disagree.  Thais I know are educated, traveled and curious.  It is difficult to get into the real Thailand for most people from the West as they have never lived and worked in Thailand.  It is obvious you don't live in Thailand have you ever been here and actually met some Thai people in person?

I have worked in the top ranked companies in Thailand. Almost all staff are from Chula and Thammasat and Mahidol and many have masters degrees from good universities outside Thailand. 

 

And, guess what?

 

Most still show little interest in intellectual pursuits. And I know because I managed teams of these (mostly) arrogant brats that produced horrifyingly juvenile work. 

 

The kids are good test takers, but, due to culture and not ability, they have little in the way of self directed intellectual curiosity. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Fex Bluse said:

I have worked in the top ranked companies in Thailand. Almost all staff are from Chula and Thammasat and Mahidol and many have masters degrees from good universities outside Thailand. 

 

And, guess what?

 

Most still show little interest in intellectual pursuits. And I know because I managed teams of these (mostly) arrogant brats that produced horrifying juvenile work. 

 

The kids are good test takers, but, due to culture and not ability, they have little in the way of self directed intellectual curiosity. 

What kind of business?

[Fex Bluse]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

What kind of business?

Consulting, multinational with offices in more than 100 countries. 'Creme de la creme' of Thais. 

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Fex Bluse said:

Consulting, multinational with offices in more than 100 countries. 'Creme de la creme' of Thais. 

Consulting what? I doubt you have ever lived in Thailand. 

[zzaa09]

24 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I disagree.  Thais I know are educated, traveled and curious.  It is difficult to get into the real Thailand for most people from the West as they have never lived and worked in Thailand.  It is obvious you don't live in Thailand have you ever been here and actually met some Thai people in person?

Well said...

Gets down to real experience and exposure. 

Less the wannabes, but those that reside here within their isolated existence are just as ignorant as real things Thai. 

 

Quite reflective of real life as well as this forum.

[attrayant]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

Often I do not really understand all the focus on Thais and lack of command of English.  It is worth remembering that most people on the planet get by without speaking English.  Same applies to countries, the number of countries where English is not spoken is very very high, and they get by.

 

 

The goal is not merely to "get by".  

 

3 hours ago, Kurtf said:

Until more English language teachers are required to get TEFL certificate as a requirement to teach English the situation in Thailand is unlikely to change.

 

No, no, NO.  It has nothing to do with teacher credentialing, and I am getting sick of hearing that.  All kids in native English-speaking countries are essentially fluent by the time they enter kindergarten, at least insofar as they can communicate with their peers and interact with adults at an age-appropriate level.  How is this possible, do the toddlers all have lessons with master's degree-holding English teachers from age 0-4?  Of course not.  They simply had extended, daily exposure to the language.  My own mother was not a teacher - she was a waitress working in some greasy spoon restaurant when I was pre-K, yet somehow I learned enough to communicate at my age level and - added bonus - with no accent.

 

By the time kids reach high school in Thailand, those who have had the benefit of pre-K English exposure will be able to further benefit from highly qualified (HQ) teachers.  But those HQ teachers aren't needed to get the kids started.  HQ teachers are a wasted resource on kids who just started learning English in grade school, since very few of those kids will benefit.

 

The PM and that fat joker guy who is now in charge of immigration should create a retiree visa/extension option where those retirees who can speak reasonably clean, decent English have to spend at least a few hours a day with pre-K toddlers in a day care center of some sort.  No teaching.  Just talk to the kids.  Get them used to hearing and speaking English while their brains are still sponges. Cut the education budget in half to fund these day care centers (don't worry, there will be almost no significant impact to the schools by such a cut).

 

In return, waive the 800K baht bank deposit for retirees or perhaps drop it to 200K.  I can't believe the Thai government is wasting such a valuable resource that already exists within its borders and is just sitting around idle most of the time.  That is a huge opportunity cost.

[Fex Bluse]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Consulting what? I doubt you have ever lived in Thailand. 

Ad hominems are a logical fallacy of relevance where someone rejects or criticizes another person’s view on the basis of personal characteristics, background, physical appearance, or other features irrelevant to the argument at issue.

 

I have lived in Thailand for the better part of 3 decades. And, to keep my privacy, I will not make public the additional detail you have requested. 

[CALSinCM]

58 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

What happened is in the mid 90s the government closed all the universities and many schools and the language died with the old folks.

 

Quite Orwellian really...

More like cultural Darwinism.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, zzaa09 said:

Well said...

Gets down to real experience and exposure. 

Less the wannabes, but those that reside here within their isolated existence are just as ignorant as real things Thai. 

 

Quite reflective of real life as well as this forum.

Lets be honest.  How many middle class Thai people are going to befriend a Farang who does not have a substantial bank account?

 

Look at the traffic at the three threads about the guys who don't have 65 grand a month.  I'm amazed. 

[the guest]

Ironic, many native speakers of English struggle to master their own languages, and then dictate to other about learning English ?

[ParadiseLost]

14 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

The goal is not merely to "get by".  

 

 

No, no, NO.  It has nothing to do with teacher credentialing, and I am getting sick of hearing that.  All kids in native English-speaking countries are essentially fluent by the time they enter kindergarten, at least insofar as they can communicate with their peers...

I share your sentiment, but you know of course it can never be:

 

1. Old people are for living at home looking after illegitimate children,

 

2. Taking instructions from foreigners is just not the Thai way, no (grand)parents will force the kids to speak English at home as they have no clue why all this fuss, about a foreign language!

 

The only way to reach these kids is through television, that and remove Thai language from Facebook... 

Edited November 3, 2018 by ParadiseLost

[attrayant]

1 minute ago, ParadiseLost said:

I commend your sentiment, but you know of course it can never be:

1. Old people are for living at home looking after illegitimate children,

2. Taking instructions from foreigners is just not the Thai way, no (grand)parents will force the kids to speak English at home as they have no clue why all this fuss, about a foreign language!

 

I was tempted to erase all of that and write simply "the Thai culture forbids it", which is what you've said.  That really does seem to be true, with occasional exceptions here and there.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Ad hominems are a logical fallacy of relevance where someone rejects or criticizes another person’s view on the basis of personal characteristics, background, physical appearance, or other features irrelevant to the argument at issue.

 

I have lived in Thailand for the better part of 3 decades. And, to keep my privacy, I will not make public the additional detail you have requested. 

That's a great point.  I'm hyper sensitive to ad hominem attacks and I can see how mine might have sounded like that.  I know many grads of the universities you mentioned.  One just returned from a study and learning and teaching trip to the UK.  He is a doctor who writes books and stays current with his specialty in both Thailand and abroad.  I have a lot of friends who own companies in Thailand and they are interested and curious about new trends in their businesses. 

 

My wife is an engineer.  Her friends are engineers and they are interested in world politics. 

 

Most people who live here ask questions about Thailand and day to day things in Thailand as well as philosophize about Thai values. 

 

I know of no business that would attract brainless Thai people to the extent you mention.  The only thing I can think of is marketing.  It is a useless degree and folks who get one are useless people and do useless work such as consulting.  Or selling stocks in a boiler room or shady businesses like that.  I've been trying to figure out how you would meet such dingbats and I would meet such stellar Thai folks.    

 

Forgive me if you took my words as a personal attack.  I don't agree with you and I was trying to imagine how you would meet such people who were so different than the ones I know.  The first thing that came to my mind is you have no on the ground experience in Thailand. 

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, CALSinCM said:

More like cultural Darwinism.

Are you talking about Burma?

[KhunShay99]

9 hours ago, darksidedog said:

To be honest, I didn't think it was possible for it to get worse. Of all the places I have been, Thailand is the worst for ability to speak English even remotely well. Many years ago I tried to set up an office here and closed it after a year due to inability to recruit even a single individual who had the proficiency I was after, and I was offering 50K a month basic. 

Lol

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

I commend your sentiment, but you know of course it can never be:

1. Old people are for living at home looking after illegitimate children,

2. Taking instructions from foreigners is just not the Thai way, no (grand)parents will force the kids to speak English at home as they have no clue why all this fuss, about a foreign language!

 

The only way to reach these kids is through television, that and remove Thai language from Facebook... 

I lectured in Maths and Civil Engineering Technology in a UK University. I'm also a native English speaker who has written extensively. But I'm too old to get a job at the local town school; so I'm told. There must be hundreds like me if not thousands, who would be an asset to Thai education.

 

Untapped resources just waiting to help.

[SABloke]

7 hours ago, Jeremy50 said:

How bizarre, you must be in a different Thailand, unless you live in Pattaya. Talking of which,It makes me cringe when I hear westerners, I mean especially those dozens of youtube vloggers  who presumably live there, that can't even pronounce the name of the place properly. Pa-TY-er, what? It's Pati-YA, you fools.

It's actually Putt-ta-ya, you fool.???? But that is the pronunciation in Thai. I'm sure Pa-Ty-er, as you put it, is an acceptable English pronunciation. Many cities across the world have varied pronunciations depending on which language is being spoken.

 

So get off your pony, and get over it. Can you honestly tell me that you say, "I'm going to Paree" when you visit Paris? I thought not.

Edited November 3, 2018 by SABloke

[balo]

Cambodia 21 place below Thailand - rubbish! I've lived in both countries and here in Cambodia English proficiency is far higher than in Thailand.
 
In Thailand I had to learn the language to do my job, 12 years in Cambodia and I speak only rudimentary Khmer. I am the only foreigner in a Cambodian company and 21 of my 25 staff speak English. Even some Tuk Tuk drivers speak English here. In my 13 years in TL I never encountered one that could speak any English.

Because Cambo belonged to France, so the older generations had to learn French , then after the independence they continued to encourage everyone to learn English. The education system was just better.

[FritsSikkink]

37 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

I have lived in Thailand for the better part of 3 decades. 

And still not able to communicate in Thai.

[ParadiseLost]

31 minutes ago, the guest said:

Ironic, many native speakers of English struggle to master their own languages, and then dictate to other about learning English ?

No, it is ironic you speak of 'languages' yet you only refer to one language; this as you try to score browny points speaking about other peoples shortcomings...

 

Oops just noticed you also say 'other' but should it not be 'others'?

 

????

Edited November 3, 2018 by ParadiseLost