Some of them live here for more then 30 years and still can't say more than 30 words.

Is it laziness, a feeling of superiority, missing skills or something else?

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by FritsSikkink

I think this has nothing to do with expats in Thai. I saw the same in my country, that foreigners come and stay there for many many years and still are not able to speak the local language.

 

I think longtime ago it was worse, as by now most people thinking if they can speak English that should be enough.

I would guess some will say to learn Thai language is to difficult as the language is different from most western languages.

The main thing I think is the "tone" our Western ears are not tuned in to those subtle tones that are required and are hard for us to reproduce them too because its so different, add age in the mix, teaching an old dog new tricks etc and it aint easy beyond basics thats for sure. 

Those of us that are married I think put more effort into teaching our partner our language ????.

 

I've noted this also and IMHO you have hit the nail on the head: laziness, a feeling of superiority etc.

 

Superiority; I came across a guy from Utah 20 years ago in Bkk, he had already been here some 15 years, he was then an older man, a doctor of medicine who had inherited wealth, retired and came to Thailand to live, he was arrogant, superior and rude to everybody, all day.

 

He died about 5 years back. In all that time he had not learned even very simple Thai, couldn't count 1 to 10 in Thai, didn't know the days of the week in Thai, and he stubbornly refused to learn or listen to anything let alone learn Thai language.  

 

A couple of times I got into Bkk taxis with him, he would yell the destination in copious complex English to the driver then abuse driver when he didn't understand. The second time I witnessed him doing this I got out and walked away and avoided him thenceforth.

 

He did the same in restaurants, make an order (in English) then 2 minutes later change the order, then explain something about dish two must come to the table no later than 5 to 6 minutes later than dish 1, etc.

 

Then when it all went wrong he would eat everything and refuse to pay the bill and he was a big guy and somewhat intimidating. 

 

He was a gay man, he started relationships again and again with young Thai men who spoke zero English and it would quickly turn into abuse because the new bf didn't understand English and the American spoke zero Thai.

 

His comment was always 'why should I learn Thai, these people should all learn English'.

 

He was found dead on the floor after falling down the stairs drunk. He had told an American acquaintance earlier that he had a brother in Utah but they had not spoken for decades. The police and embassy officials couldn't find a will nor any cash or bankbooks etc.

 

The embassy found a phone number for the brother in Utah, called him but the response was "I got tired of his arrogance and abuse years ago, I don't want to be involved in any way and I'm certainly not going to send any funds to pay for his funeral etc., and please don't call me again".

 

An attempt to get some donations for a simple funeral produced zero Baht, he was eventually given a paupers cremation.

 

 

Much as I appreciate the time you took to relate this story Scorecard, I feel to use this particular extreme example does not really assist in the understanding of Joe normal not learning conversational Thai.

In my opinion most farang who are not seeking employment could get through the days with very limited Thai, more so if they have a Thai wife. So is not learning conversational Thai, laziness, or a decision based on time, effort, ability vs the benefit of the end result.

English is global and Thai isn't

Its simply not worth the investment to a lot of people

 

If i had to invest the time becoming fluent in reading /writing another language id pick Spanish or Chinese over Thai and i have no problem communicating in Thai but i can't read or write it

Maybe a good topic for a poll, along the lines of, "If you live here and don't speak Thai, why not?"  Offer a few options, such as

1) I'm too lazy

2) I don't need it

3) I would like to but ...

4) My partner communicates on my behalf

***

Personally, I couldn't imagine living in a country without making my best effort to learn the language. In Thailand, the benefits are enormous. Being able to read signs, labels, instructions, news, and contracts makes a huge difference. Daily life is more convenient, ordinary Thai people are at their friendliest and most comfortable, and the sketchiest ones stay away. As far as romance goes, I'd much rather invest my time and effort learning a language than waste my money in a futile bid to buy affection. Meeting women and dating is an entirely different experience to the typical farang scene. The conventional ThaiVisa wisdom that middle- or upper-class women don't date farang turns out to be complete BS. (I used to try to point this out but would get shouted down as a liar; I can only chuckle.) The only minor disadvantage is that farang who don't speak Thai tend to resent those who do. When you immediately relate to their wives and girlfriends better than they do, they become insecure (often for good reason-- you get a lot of propositions). It's also a huge advantage for picking up tourists. In sum, totally worth the effort.

 

 

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Some of them live here for more then 30 years and still can't say more than 30 words.

Is it laziness, a feeling of superiority, missing skills or something else?

 

I'm lazy. Next!

i have a friend that honestly wanted to learn,

but he just cant pick up on the tones at all,

he dont even hear them, its actually worse than that,

he does not hear them when i say exactly where it is and when i

pronounce it particularly.

he also cant pronounce the sounds here

15 minutes ago, Puwa said:

Maybe a good topic for a poll, along the lines of, "If you live here and don't speak Thai, why not?"  Offer a few options, such as

1) I'm too lazy

2) I don't need it

3) I would like to but ...

4) My partner communicates on my behalf

***

Personally, I couldn't imagine living in a country without making my best effort to learn the language. In Thailand, the benefits are enormous. Being able to read signs, labels, instructions, news, and contracts makes a huge difference. Daily life is more convenient, ordinary Thai people are at their friendliest and most comfortable, and the sketchiest ones stay away. As far as romance goes, I'd much rather invest my time and effort learning a language than waste my money in a futile bid to buy affection. Meeting women and dating is an entirely different experience to the typical farang scene. The conventional ThaiVisa wisdom that middle- or upper-class women don't date farang turns out to be complete BS. (I used to try to point this out but would get shouted down as a liar; I can only chuckle.) The only minor disadvantage is that farang who don't speak Thai tend to resent those who do. When you immediately relate to their wives and girlfriends better than they do, they become insecure (often for good reason-- you get a lot of propositions). It's also a huge advantage for picking up tourists. In sum, totally worth the effort.

 

 

You do realise for a guy happily married to a Thai lady, you have not made much of a case at all.

 

i think i would make it roughly as well now in pattaya if i didnt understand thai, but just 4 years ago i wouldnt have gotten the food i wanted without thai

Because Thai is a terrible language to learn , and believe me , I have tried.  And also a different alphabet with weird symbols.  

 

If I had moved to Spain instead and lived there for some years I would have been able to communicate in Spanish in no time. 

I speak a little German, French , and my native language is Norwegian. Which means I can understand and read English, German, French, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish. 

But I have given up on Thai , yes I can order a simple dish and I can count to 100 . Nit noi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get a kick out of guys pulling the superior attitude "I've been coming here longer than you," implying they have an understanding of the place that you will never have, and then you realize they can't even count to 10 in the local language.

Worst places for this bs I've come across in my travels are Bkk/Pattaya and Rio de Janeiro.

Once was having a few drinks with this US fellow I ran into, a few others joined us, and every time someone else joined us he would bring up the subject of how long he was "coming here," and each time the number grew larger.  At one point I asked "did your parents bring you here when you were a kid?"  He looked puzzled, then said no.  I then asked if he was over 60 (I knew he wasn't) because if he had been coming here for as long as he said...

He sure shut his trap right quick.

 

 

 

I am with the above posters who have mentioned the tones. I just couldn't get it and had similar problems when trying to learn Mandarin.

The good thing with English speakers is that they can usually figure out what it is you are trying to say even if you mangle some words. I found my attempts at Thai to be frustrating because in my mind I was saying things correctly (or near) and Thais would just stare with a blank face of incomprehension. I learned the basics and gave up on anything deeper.

I just can't bring myself to be making all those 'cartoon' animal sounds.

It's a reflection of their IQ - simple as that.

More intelligent people will learn a language (any language)

if exposed to it for a prolonged period.

 

  

I understand more than my wife enjoys!

have a friend who has lived here quite a few years, cannot speak Thai worth zilch,

when I ask why he says:

not interested - can't be bothered - for what I am doing in LoS command of Thai is not required

 

(wife is fluent in English - and Japanese)

 

22 minutes ago, tkramer said:

I just can't bring myself to be making all those 'cartoon' animal sounds.

Haha imagine what they must think of you....I hope you don’t live here

Edited November 5, 20187 yr by namatjira

11 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

It's a reflection of their IQ - simple as that.

More intelligent people will learn a language (any language)

if exposed to it for a prolonged period.

 

  

It takes someone of low intelligence to come up with a comment as simple as that.

Edited November 5, 20187 yr by Antonymous

Certainly English is, bar none, the easiest language to learn, especially since you don't have to worry about the gender of nouns and very few problems in the verb area.  And no matter how bad your pronunciation of English, both natives AND foreigners will understand what you are trying to say. 

I mean, here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.

 

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

I've noted this also and IMHO you have hit the nail on the head: laziness, a feeling of superiority etc.

 

Superiority; I came across a guy from Utah 20 years ago in Bkk, he had already been here some 15 years, he was then an older man, a doctor of medicine who had inherited wealth, retired and came to Thailand to live, he was arrogant, superior and rude to everybody, all day.

 

He died about 5 years back. In all that time he had not learned even very simple Thai, couldn't count 1 to 10 in Thai, didn't know the days of the week in Thai, and he stubbornly refused to learn or listen to anything let alone learn Thai language.  

 

A couple of times I got into Bkk taxis with him, he would yell the destination in copious complex English to the driver then abuse driver when he didn't understand. The second time I witnessed him doing this I got out and walked away and avoided him thenceforth.

 

He did the same in restaurants, make an order (in English) then 2 minutes later change the order, then explain something about dish two must come to the table no later than 5 to 6 minutes later than dish 1, etc.

 

Then when it all went wrong he would eat everything and refuse to pay the bill and he was a big guy and somewhat intimidating. 

 

He was a gay man, he started relationships again and again with young Thai men who spoke zero English and it would quickly turn into abuse because the new bf didn't understand English and the American spoke zero Thai.

 

His comment was always 'why should I learn Thai, these people should all learn English'.

 

He was found dead on the floor after falling down the stairs drunk. He had told an American acquaintance earlier that he had a brother in Utah but they had not spoken for decades. The police and embassy officials couldn't find a will nor any cash or bankbooks etc.

 

The embassy found a phone number for the brother in Utah, called him but the response was "I got tired of his arrogance and abuse years ago, I don't want to be involved in any way and I'm certainly not going to send any funds to pay for his funeral etc., and please don't call me again".

 

An attempt to get some donations for a simple funeral produced zero Baht, he was eventually given a paupers cremation.

 

 

This is just someone who was mad at the world as you noted "everyone" and that included his family really has nothing to do to why he didn't want to learn Thai.

7 hours ago, CharlieH said:

The main thing I think is the "tone" our Western ears are not tuned in to those subtle tones that are required and are hard for us to reproduce them too because its so different, add age in the mix, teaching an old dog new tricks etc and it aint easy beyond basics thats for sure. 

Those of us that are married I think put more effort into teaching our partner our language ????.

 

Absolutely right, in addition Thai is not related to the european languages   and if you simply learned the words and then try to structure a sentence the same way you would in English, you would make litle sense. For instance in english you would say the red car. same in Greek "to cokino autokinito or in italian " La machina  rossa . different words but same structure   But in Thai you would not say "the red car" but rather "the car red"  (rot si dang)  I know the words but I have trouble with the sequence.   Next year when I retire and have more time in Thailand I plan to  take lessons and hopefully crack the code.

4 minutes ago, blazes said:

Certainly English is, bar none, the easiest language to learn, especially since you don't have to worry about the gender of nouns and very few problems in the verb area.  And no matter how bad your pronunciation of English, both natives AND foreigners will understand what you are trying to say. 

I mean, here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.

 

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

 

 

 

I think I remember having read that in VietNam they have a fixed/standardized way of transliteration from VN script to the English/latin alphabet. Would have been nice to have that in LoS.

I made the effort many years ago and it has served me well working with the locals. When Thai strangers I meet compliment on my language skills and ask how long I have been here, I tell them 3 days, I learned it from a book on the plane coming over here.

If you learn Spanish, Russian or English then you have gained a lanhuage used in multiple countries. Learn Thai and its not much use globally, plus its difficult.

I used to try and make an effort but soon realised that most Thais make no effort to even try and understand me if my attempts are not perfect so I gave up.

Edited November 5, 20187 yr by Justin Side

11 minutes ago, blazes said:

Certainly English is, bar none, the easiest language to learn, especially since you don't have to worry about the gender of nouns and very few problems in the verb area.  And no matter how bad your pronunciation of English, both natives AND foreigners will understand what you are trying to say. 

I mean, here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.

 

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

They did that in Vietnam, does not help at all. For example this is the name of a village, "My Lai" How do you think it is pronounced? 

 

Another example, "thanks" Cam On, the "C" is more like a "G" to my ears.

5 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

If you learn Spanish, Russian or English then you have gained a lanhuage used in multiple countries. Learn Thai and its not much use globally, plus its difficult.

you should add French and Arabic to that list

 

I know enough to get me into trouble !  its the tones that i cant get to grips with and dont forget that they change slightly from region to region and villages.