Why are expats so bad in Thai?

[thailand49]

For myself as Charlie H, stated if you have Thai family here one is more due to the necessity to learn some Thai. I was asked in the beginning to be 100% Thai, I thought to myself <deleted> does that mean?

Today she finally realized that it is impossible just because I'm halfway there doesn't mean I can become one if I learned the language. Personally, in my heart, my experience with Thai people and their culture it is the last thing I want to be. My saying has been always in response " each day we are together I become more Thai and you become more Farang " 

As for learning the language, I stopped because it was making me unhappy I know enough to get more than around and that is even with a bad set of ears that is hard for me to hear the tones. Safer for me and for Thais since I have a big mouth tired of hearing the B.S. acting stupid is the way to go here at times.

This as all leaders in the world are saying " Global "  I think if someone doesn't want to learn that is up to them as long as they are respectful to everyone rude or not Thais aren't refusing to accept the Baht from them?????

[crazykopite]

Most of my Thai friends insist I speak English as they want to learn the language when you ask them to teach you Thai they make an excuse and disappear 

[Denim]

10 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

If you learn Spanish, Russian or English then you have gained a lanhuage used in multiple countries. Learn Thai and its not much use globally, plus its difficult.

Fair enough but Thai expats tend to live in Thailand.

 

My local noodle does not speak any of the more useful languages you mention.

[Colabamumbai]

Most did not attend a Thai language school or receive tutoring upon arrival. 

[Old Croc]

 

[animalmagic]

Just now, sirineou said:

Absolutely right, in addition Thai is not related to the european languages   and if you simply learned the words and then try to structure a sentence the same way you would in English, you would make litle sense. For instance in english you would say the red car. same in Greek "to cokino autokinito or in italian " La machina  rossa . different words but same structure   But in Thai you would not say "the red car" but rather "the car red"  (rot si dang)  I know the words but I have trouble with the sequence.   Next year when I retire and have more time in Thailand I plan to  take lessons and hopefully crack the code.

Not sure I understand your reference here.  La machina rossa is exactly the same construction as rot si dang; both are the car red!

[JimmyTheMook]

34 minutes ago, Antonymous said:

It takes someone of low intelligence to come up with a comment as simple as that.

 

It's ok if you have no capacity to learn a foreign language.

Nobody in your immediate surroundings will think any less of you. 

[car720]

8 hours ago, CharlieH said:

The main thing I think is the "tone" our Western ears are not tuned in to those subtle tones that are required and are hard for us to reproduce them too because its so different, add age in the mix, teaching an old dog new tricks etc and it aint easy beyond basics thats for sure. 

Those of us that are married I think put more effort into teaching our partner our language ????.

 

Spot on.  Chinese with 4 tones is bad enough but Thai has 5.

[car720]

Also why should we speak Thai when our wallets can already speak it.   

[rumak]

5 hours ago, Puwa said:

Maybe a good topic for a poll, along the lines of, "If you live here and don't speak Thai, why not?"  Offer a few options, such as

1) I'm too lazy

2) I don't need it

3) I would like to but ...

4) My partner communicates on my behalf

***

Personally, I couldn't imagine living in a country without making my best effort to learn the language. In Thailand, the benefits are enormous. Being able to read signs, labels, instructions, news, and contracts makes a huge difference. Daily life is more convenient, ordinary Thai people are at their friendliest and most comfortable, and the sketchiest ones stay away. As far as romance goes, I'd much rather invest my time and effort learning a language than waste my money in a futile bid to buy affection. Meeting women and dating is an entirely different experience to the typical farang scene. The conventional ThaiVisa wisdom that middle- or upper-class women don't date farang turns out to be complete BS. (I used to try to point this out but would get shouted down as a liar; I can only chuckle.) The only minor disadvantage is that farang who don't speak Thai tend to resent those who do. When you immediately relate to their wives and girlfriends better than they do, they become insecure 

 

 

I have deleted the last two sentences...that i personally don't think apply.  HOWEVER...... what i have copied (from Puwa)  i believe is about as spot on as one can get.  It took me quite a few years to get to

a fairly good level.....and the difference in relating to (and enjoying) normal thais and the difference in dating opportunities increased 100 fold.   It is also true that just like anything,  those that have not done well (in learning)and try to put those that do down are...to put it more bluntly...just jealous.  

[amse]

I would love to speak Thai better, I even went to a language school, BUT I have always had a poor short & long term memory which has plagued me all my life. Compared to English it's like the Thai language is backwards like: instead of saying "Go Here", they say "Here Go", which is quite confusing for me.???? 

[car720]

10 minutes ago, Denim said:

Fair enough but Thai expats tend to live in Thailand.

 

My local noodle does not speak any of the more useful languages you mention.

Real expats tend to live in many countries.

For example, I am a member of Internations the biggest international expat community.

[car720]

14 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

Most of my Thai friends insist I speak English as they want to learn the language when you ask them to teach you Thai they make an excuse and disappear 

and here is the real truth of it.

It happens just about everywhere we teach English.

[waders123]

There are many different reasons for not learning a language.  When I first came to Thailand, I knew I really liked the country and the people.  I decided I should learn the language and be more informed and respectful.  I bought all the latest and greatest PC courses and then later paid a Thai tutor.  To make a long story short, I am tone deaf and being tone deaf it is with a high probability that you are NOT going to be proficient in speaking Thai.  Unfortunately, that was my situation; I didn't get the tones and kept saying the words incorrectly.  My Thai tutor said he was sorry but believed I would never speak Thai with any proficiency and I should let it go and get on with life.  

So saying that everybody that comes to Thailand is lazy, indifferent, or maybe feels superior to Thais is NOT a factual statement.  Saying that is just adding another stereotyping statement.  People really should be more informed before making somewhat cruel and derogatory "blanket statements" on here. 

Not everyone walks in the same shoes folks!  

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, waders123 said:

There are many different reasons for not learning a language.  When I first came to Thailand, I knew I really liked the country and the people.  I decided I should learn the language and be more informed and respectful.  I bought all the latest and greatest PC courses and then later paid a Thai tutor.  To make a long story short, I am tone deaf and being tone deaf it is with a high probability that you are NOT going to be proficient in speaking Thai.  Unfortunately, that was my situation; I didn't get the tones and kept saying the words incorrectly.  My Thai tutor said he was sorry but believed I would never speak Thai with any proficiency and I should let it go and get on with life.  

So saying that everybody that comes to Thailand is lazy, indifferent, or maybe feels superior to Thais is NOT a factual statement.  Saying that is just adding another stereotyping statement.  People really should be more informed before making somewhat cruel and derogatory "blanket statements" on here. 

Not everyone walks in the same shoes folks!  

right some even walk barefooted, anyway - point taken

 

now, with a population close to 70 000 000 there probably is a fair number of Thais that are tone deaf or close to

how is their Thai? off or ok?

 

[zyphodb]

6 hours ago, poanoi said:

i have a friend that honestly wanted to learn,

but he just cant pick up on the tones at all,

he dont even hear them, its actually worse than that,

he does not hear them when i say exactly where it is and when i

pronounce it particularly.

he also cant pronounce the sounds here

I've been here for 8 years & spent 5 of them completely immersed in Thai in a small village with my wife, I'm exactly the same, yes I can speak very basic Thai, can count, ask for things etc. but my ears can't pick up the tonal differences, & a lot of the time Thais don't understand my basic Thai because I don't get the tones right. While I do slowly learn more Thai, I can understand a lot more than I can speak & can't see me ever being abled to speak it even close to fluently because of the tones, & of course getting older doesn't help either...

Edited November 5, 2018 by zyphodb

[zyphodb]

1 hour ago, JimmyTheMook said:

It's a reflection of their IQ - simple as that.

More intelligent people will learn a language (any language)

if exposed to it for a prolonged period.

 

  

Absolute rubbish.....

[brewsterbudgen]

For me, it's a combination of laziness, poor short-term memory, and the fact that I can live here very easily (and have done so for 14 years) without the need for anything more than very basic Thai.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[chrissables]

34 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

 

I understand the writing far better than the speaking, no idea why though! 55555 ????

[fvw53]

5 hours ago, balo said:

Because Thai is a terrible language to learn , and believe me , I have tried.  And also a different alphabet with weird symbols.  

 

If I had moved to Spain instead and lived there for some years I would have been able to communicate in Spanish in no time. 

I speak a little German, French , and my native language is Norwegian. Which means I can understand and read English, German, French, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish. 

But I have given up on Thai , yes I can order a simple dish and I can count to 100 . Nit noi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The most important factor is "necessity" ....before settling in Thailand I worked and lived in Pakistan, China, Sweden, Germany and Vietnam : in everyone of those countries I learned to speak the local language fluently...but here I got retired and married to a Thai wife and she is doing the communications in Thai for me. Also I cannot pick up a language from street talks and I need to go to school...but the nearest Thai language school is 2 hours drive from my house.

[dotpoom]

Easy....They prefer not to understand what the ladies are saying about them.

[scorecard]

58 minutes ago, blazes said:

Certainly English is, bar none, the easiest language to learn, especially since you don't have to worry about the gender of nouns and very few problems in the verb area.  And no matter how bad your pronunciation of English, both natives AND foreigners will understand what you are trying to say. 

I mean, here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.

 

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

 

Sorry I don't agree with your first paragraph, English is a very complex language.

 

English is a lot more complex than easy pronunciation.

 

"here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.   Well that's just a statement of the obvious, they revert to a common language if they don't speak Japanese / Korean, but what you miss is that very few Japanese speak advanced or even intermediate English, Koreans perhaps a little better picture of English.

 

Look around you can find some books and 'dictionaries' with Thai words and phrases written using the English alphabet but without any tone indicators.

 

And why should Thailand or any country abandon it's cultural history of it's language. On the other hand the Chinese make up the biggest total numbers by population, so why not advocate that everybody should learn Chinese characters?

 

 

[Peterw42]

I admit to finding Thai very difficult, besides not being able to hear (and make) the subtle tonal differences, it also comes down to a 60 year old memory. Most of the time I cant remember where I left my keys let alone the Thai word for knife, fork etc.

I dont buy into any of the excuses most ex-pats give, "they should learn English", western superiority etc.

 

It puts your average bar-girl into context, by the time she gets to the bar and speaking some English, its sometimes her 3rd or 4th language. Issan (lao) at home, Kmer at the local markets, Thai at school etc.

[Time Traveller]

Maybe because they are Expats, and not Immigrants. Big difference. Expats can be assigned to another country at a moments notice. Which is not really worth investing your time in learning a language if it can't be used again when you move. 

 

[sandbox]

For some people it may be related to their sense of identity - of self. Language and culture are strongly intertwined and a language like Thai describes and reinforces their social hierarchy.

 

Expressing in Thai connotes understanding and acceptance of the relationship between the speakers. English is a language largely based on equality and politeness can be a way of establishing a platform for an equitable relationship between strangers. Being polite is civilized but it doesn't necessarily mean the speakers care much beyond the interaction or what they think of each other.

 

Personally, I find the Thai language fragile with very little tolerance in intelligibility. It's either spot on or nothing. Listeners seem unable to connect between the dots. With English, the intended meaning expressed is generally extremely resistant to all sorts of distortion; grammar, pronunciation, accent etc. It has become a language owned by the world, by many cultures. There is much less attendant baggage to learn.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by sandbox
Spelling

[ParadiseLost]

I gave up once I started dealing with immigration and got the feeling that it was my money, not me that is wanted in Thailand.

 

Add to that the refusal of any Thai to make any effort to understand what I am struggling to say... 

 

I am fluent in two languages and programmed computers for many years in several languages. However, after learning a basic smattering of Thai I found it impossible to understand or apply any logic to the sentence structure.

 

But it is nice to see here that I am not alone, there are many who know the words but cannot construct a sentence...

 

 

[animalmagic]

Just now, car720 said:

Spot on.  Chinese with 4 tones is bad enough but Thai has 5.

Cantonese Chinese has 9 tones!

The pronunciation of 'yes' in Japanese is something very rude in Cantonese.

[Thian]

Because i can't read the Thai letters and can't speak in different tones....Indonesian is much easyier for me since they use our alphabet.

 

Also i don't care to speak to Thai since i can choose where i buy my stuff and only go to places where they can speak english or where i don't have to speak at all. I shop a lot in Singapore and don't care if it's more expensive overthere.

 

 

[MadMuhammad]

6 hours ago, balo said:

Because Thai is a terrible language to learn , and believe me , I have tried.  And also a different alphabet with weird symbols.  

 

If I had moved to Spain instead and lived there for some years I would have been able to communicate in Spanish in no time. 

I speak a little German, French , and my native language is Norwegian. Which means I can understand and read English, German, French, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish. 

But I have given up on Thai , yes I can order a simple dish and I can count to 100 . Nit noi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the right resources and a little bit of commitment it took me approximately 40 hours to learn to read and write the Thai alphabet and read basic words.

Once I got my head past the initial ‘that’s chicken scratch’ and understood script is just another way to right letters it really does start falling into place 

[ParadiseLost]

1 hour ago, blazes said:

Certainly English is, bar none, the easiest language to learn, especially since you don't have to worry about the gender of nouns and very few problems in the verb area.  And no matter how bad your pronunciation of English, both natives AND foreigners will understand what you are trying to say. 

I mean, here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.

 

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

There is English, and then there is English.

 

I disagree. This is why most foreign (EU) people who think they can speak English are actually terrible at all the finer points.

 

English is an incredibly diverse language, full of nuance and best of all, the ability to say something without actually saying it: sarcasm (especially) confounds (and frustrates) every foreign speaker I have met - no matter their status in life.

 

Don't want to even start talking about comedy, or sense of humor...