Why are expats so bad in Thai?

[CharlieH]

The problems I hit........

 

I learned a new word everyday, but not really a lot of use because you cant put them together to make sentences, as the order is all wrong.

 

Ilearned a few phrases and practiced them, wrong again,  learn too many phrases as then people think you can speak Thai and then gibber back and I have no idea what they are saying and have to stop them, thats emarrassing ! 

 

Then you have those that know you can understand what they are saying, what do they do........talk faster so its harder for you to listen........grrrrr

 

And finally, you listen and repeat BUT Thais have trouble with R and L 

What happens......you learn wrong !! But they still understand your wrong pronounciation ! "Mai pen rai" comes out "mai pen lai " roi baht becomes Loi baht and so on, so not only are you learning a language you get a speech impediment too !!! ???? so you then start questioning is that really an L or should it be an R ????

 

I find the whole thing very frustrating. ????

[animalmagic]

Just now, Nyezhov said:

I was on a tour boat down a canal filled with Chinese, so I made sure I was sitting with some Thai folks in the back with the boatman (nice trip for 100b). I make my bad thai greetings to the folks around me and smile and whatnot, off we go Im snapping pics and the boatman slows down and taps me on the shoulder and points at a monitor sunning iteself, I say in English Holy S**t, Hia! and start snapping away and the boat guy and Thais just crack up hysterically, like it is the funniest thing they heard ever. 

A friend of mine had a similar experience in Hong Kong when directing someone's attention to a boat floating at sea.  Using simple words and English construction he managed to say. 'suen hai sui', literally boat in water.  Wrong construction and butchered tones meant he said, 'sour pussy juice.' (but with a far ruder interpretation of pussy!)

[Nyezhov]

8 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Nope, I think you are wrong. English is, for the foreigner, difficult to learn. One reason among many is that words can juggled around yet still mean the same ('I don't feel very well today'...Today, I don't feel very well'). Other languages, including Thai, have definite rules for sentence structure. Change it and it means something different or it is incorrect and may not be understood. Another point is that although most of English words have their meaning rooted in Latin other words have different origins. This confuses the non-native English speaker. Then there is Eton and Harrow pronunciations. The list goes on.

But English is very conducive to pidgen. How you. You OK. You pretty. Beer me. Where you come from. Where you go. Have baby (patting my belly).

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, andre47 said:

Reading is really not so difficult, but I will never be able to write Thai. Also many Thais cannot write proper Thai.

My wife has started to complain at how poorly many Thais write their own language.

[Gandtee]

10 hours ago, 473geo said:

Much as I appreciate the time you took to relate this story Scorecard, I feel to use this particular extreme example does not really assist in the understanding of Joe normal not learning conversational Thai.

In my opinion most farang who are not seeking employment could get through the days with very limited Thai, more so if they have a Thai wife. So is not learning conversational Thai, laziness, or a decision based on time, effort, ability vs the benefit of the end result.

The latter I think. I've been married for thirty-one years and because my wife speaks and writes very good English we have conversed in that language. OK, I do have a few words to get me bye but regret not making the effort to learn Thai. The tones just beat me. One word with half a dozen meanings according to the tone. Someone said to me "yes he can speak enough Thai to get himself into trouble, but not enough to get himself out." Maybe I've used that as an excuse as well.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

But English is very conducive to pidgen. How you. You OK. You pretty. Beer me. Where you come from. Where you go. Have baby (patting my belly).

That's pretty much the way I speak Thai. I guess... I would know if my Thai would be better ????

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ParadiseLost said:

There is English, and then there is English.

 

I disagree. This is why most foreign (EU) people who think they can speak English are actually terrible at all the finer points.

 

English is an incredibly diverse language, full of nuance and best of all, the ability to say something without actually saying it: sarcasm (especially) confounds (and frustrates) every foreign speaker I have met - no matter their status in life.

 

Don't want to even start talking about comedy, or sense of humor...

I suppose you do know that each language has different nuances, depending where and in which kind of situation it's spoken?

 

 

[Peterw42]

33 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

yes I was told it is much worse that that! so now I really pause and think before I say "Suay" so I hopefully get it right.

 

I can tell by the look on the girl's face if I get it wrong or right.

With my Aussie twang/drawl, its always the bad meaning. Better to bring up the translation on phone and point to it

[Pete1980]

3 hours ago, blazes said:

Certainly English is, bar none, the easiest language to learn, especially since you don't have to worry about the gender of nouns and very few problems in the verb area.  And no matter how bad your pronunciation of English, both natives AND foreigners will understand what you are trying to say. 

I mean, here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.

 

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

the script isnt impossible. It takes about 2 weeks to learn an hour per day practice.

And 99% of the time it is pronounced as it is written, unlike English. 

eg I will read a book <reed> i read a book <red>

Four year olds can learn it very easily. Laziness is the only reason farangs who live here can not speak or read it. Comprehending Thais when they speak quickly or use slang is the only difficult part.

How anyone could live here and not speak and read Thai amazes me. You effectively live as a illiterate deaf mute. 

[wombat]

i am not wired for languages, every thai word i have i have struggled to learn and not through not wanting to learn...the op can jam his opinion afaiac.

[David in the north]

I moved here aged 51. By this age - your ears do not pick up the intonations at all well. However, I give it my best shot & keep learning a bit. I can understand a lot more than I can speak. just don't give up would be my advice

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Pete1980 said:

Four year olds can learn it very easily. Laziness is the only reason farangs who live here can not speak or read it. Comprehending Thais when they speak quickly or use slang is the only difficult part.

How anyone could live here and not speak and read Thai amazes me. You effectively live as a illiterate deaf mute. 

Learning new requires motivation, which derives from need. This is specially true when we need to learn hard new skills like languages.

 

I can speak some simplified Thai, but can't read the language. I was always going to be just temporarily in this country and culture.. or that's what I keep on saying to myself.. as an excuse. 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, andre47 said:

Try to learn the Thai alphabet. It is really not so difficult. Reading the real Thai is much better than any transliteration. Use the transliteration only if you want to read something quickly because reading in Thai will take you a bit time if you start learning. But if you really want know how to pronounce a word you should know how to read Thai.

am sure you're right,

and as far as I understand being able to read a word gives you the key to correct pronunciation?

 

some years ago I could write my name in Thai, (forgotten now)

 

since I began staying very longtime/permanently in LoS I have been extremely busy with stuff foreigners most don't deal with

very time consuming for me

never had room for the initial investment of learning alphabet and reading properly, alas,

my vocabularly is sizeable though (in some areas)

can speak for hours about engine details in diesel and petrol engines, timing issues, injector timing, lubes and fuels

various wood and paints and wood treatment - longtail shafts, angle of attack, length of shaft, propellers etc

all things DC electric

 

am quite challenged when in a Thai only spoken restaurant,

then I must turn to factotum in order to get what I want, foodwise that is - drinkwise I manage

 

when I am dealing with Thais that can speak some English,

nurses - authorities - certain shops etc I often end up in a scenario where they speak English and I speak Thai

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[Pete1980]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

when I am dealing with Thais that can speak some English,

nurses - authorities - certain shops etc I often end up in a scenario where they speak English and I speak Thai

 

 

 

Yes, because when you know the thai words, you can be confident the Thai will understand you.

And vice versa. My experience is similar.

[Pete1980]

I have been learning Thai since i arrived here.

The most important thing is to learn the script. It doesnt take that long and saves you time in the future. And by learning the script you are then surronded by Thai language, on signs, on TV etc etc.

I am not sure if i am allowed to plug this, but about 6 months ago I stumbled on to "Learn Thai with Oliver". IMO it is the best way, and i wished i had found it earlier. It doesnt teach you how to read the script, you must do that yourself, but once you do, this is the best website. It is a fun website to use, not just like reading Thai from a book, which sends me to sleep after about 30 minutes.

I went to a couple of schools in Pattaya and they were useless. 

[Nyezhov]

17 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

am quite challenged when in a Thai only spoken restaurant,

I just look at what everybody else is eating, and point to what I want. Everyone in Thailand knows the words water, ice and cola thereafter.....

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

I just look at what everybody else is eating, and point to what I want. Everyone in Thailand knows the words water, ice and cola thereafter.....

too shy to take  a  waitress and walk around looking at tables and pointing

 

easier in Japan where they have really good plastic models of the dishes

[brewsterbudgen]

54 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

But English is very conducive to pidgen. How you. You OK. You pretty. Beer me. Where you come from. Where you go. Have baby (patting my belly).

That's so true.  And now I've found I've learned to speak perfect pidgen English (or "Tinglish") with my wife, so all is good.  

[Zyxel]

Most important factor in learning a new language for the majority of us is age:

 

[vogie]

I find it is easy to order food just using mime, for example if I want a pork chop I will snort like a pig whilst opening my hand and pretending it's a chopper. I dare not say how I order chipolatas.

[HooHaa]

4 hours ago, DoctorG said:

I am with the above posters who have mentioned the tones. I just couldn't get it and had similar problems when trying to learn Mandarin.

The good thing with English speakers is that they can usually figure out what it is you are trying to say even if you mangle some words. I found my attempts at Thai to be frustrating because in my mind I was saying things correctly (or near) and Thais would just stare with a blank face of incomprehension. I learned the basics and gave up on anything deeper.

Tones are secondary to learning basic vocabulary. 

 

Many moons ago I was instructed by a Thai friend to just use tones irrespective of whether or not they were the correct tones - simply doing so signals that you are not speaking a western language, and usually the context would get you through. 

 

Having taken this approach I would find I was corrected frequently and as a matter of course I would begin using the right tones. 

 

Having been through the process myself, I say the tones are too difficult excuse is simply that, an excuse to give up. 

 

Thai grammar and syntax could not be more simple and anyone who wants to learn can pick up basic conversational and survival Thai in a very short amount of time if they are motivated. 

[Pedrogaz]

Languages are very easy to learn when you are young and very difficult when you are over 50. In every country I have ever lived I have committed to learning the language....and can hold a conversation in a number of languages. 

When I came here I was 54 and I took lessons 3 times a week for 6 months. After six months I could read Thai, but not understand what I was reading. I could listen to Thai but not understand most of what was said. I could speak Thai but no one (outside the family) knew what I was talking about. I gave up. It is by far the hardest language I have had to learn.

[HooHaa]

4 hours ago, tkramer said:

I just can't bring myself to be making all those 'cartoon' animal sounds.

Typical example of a superiority complex.

 

Mock8ng the language rather than making an attempt. 

[HappyAndRich]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

I've noted this also and IMHO you have hit the nail on the head: laziness, a feeling of superiority etc.

Nice to see that you have noted this so frequently. A long story about one person, just doesn´t make it.

 

In the area where I live, I have not met one expat that can´t make a small conversation in thai. And that´s more than one.

Edited November 5, 2018 by HappyAndRich

[HooHaa]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Absolutely right, in addition Thai is not related to the european languages   and if you simply learned the words and then try to structure a sentence the same way you would in English, you would make litle sense. For instance in english you would say the red car. same in Greek "to cokino autokinito or in italian " La machina  rossa . different words but same structure   But in Thai you would not say "the red car" but rather "the car red"  (rot si dang)  I know the words but I have trouble with the sequence.   Next year when I retire and have more time in Thailand I plan to  take lessons and hopefully crack the code.

How is rot si deang syntactically any different from La machina rossa? 

 

 

[HooHaa]

3 hours ago, amse said:

I would love to speak Thai better, I even went to a language school, BUT I have always had a poor short & long term memory which has plagued me all my life. Compared to English it's like the Thai language is backwards like: instead of saying "Go Here", they say "Here Go", which is quite confusing for me.???? 

Actually, they don't. They say go then give the direction. Bai Robinson's, Bai pak soi. 

[Tweedle dee]

15 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Languages are very easy to learn when you are young and very difficult when you are over 50. In every country I have ever lived I have committed to learning the language....and can hold a conversation in a number of languages. 

When I came here I was 54 and I took lessons 3 times a week for 6 months. After six months I could read Thai, but not understand what I was reading. I could listen to Thai but not understand most of what was said. I could speak Thai but no one (outside the family) knew what I was talking about. I gave up. It is by far the hardest language I have had to learn.

As with me ! 

[Ulic]

Thai is tonal and if you don't have a musical ear (I don't) it is very very difficult. German, Spanish, French, all much easier to pick up. Thai, Vietnamese etc, impossible for me. Even expats who think they speak great Thai when I asked Thais how they sound just laugh. Of course some can, and Thais appreciate the effort but it is difficult.

[andre47]

25 minutes ago, Pete1980 said:

I have been learning Thai since i arrived here.

The most important thing is to learn the script. It doesnt take that long and saves you time in the future. And by learning the script you are then surronded by Thai language, on signs, on TV etc etc.

I am not sure if i am allowed to plug this, but about 6 months ago I stumbled on to "Learn Thai with Oliver". IMO it is the best way, and i wished i had found it earlier. It doesnt teach you how to read the script, you must do that yourself, but once you do, this is the best website. It is a fun website to use, not just like reading Thai from a book, which sends me to sleep after about 30 minutes.

I went to a couple of schools in Pattaya and they were useless. 

I also use "Learn Thai with Oliver" and can recommend it.

 

I good way to learn the Alphabet is this on youtube:

 

 

 

 

[morrobay]

Because the girls speak good enough bamboo English, and who else would I want to talk to ??