Buy condo directly fron owner. What to ask ? What can go wrong ?

[coollife99]

Hi, i find a good condo to buy direct from owner without agency.

it will be my 1st condo in Thailand and i dont want to make mistake or be fooled.

 

The owner told me he have his lawyer who ca arrange everything but .... you know

its a Freehold, so what should i check ? wich paper i need to ask for, and does it worst it to take myself a lawyer my side and how much will it cost me ?

 

regards

Edited November 8, 2018 by coollife99

[Denim]

A freehold condo ?

 

Are you buying the whole building and the land it sits on ?

 

Just forget it for now and put the whole ' must buy a condo ' project on hold for a year , renting in the meantime.

 

The visa requirements for staying in Thailand are in a state of flux right now so better to wait until there is a semblance of stability before rushing into an unwise purchase.

[coollife99]

10 minutes ago, Denim said:

A freehold condo ?

 

Are you buying the whole building and the land it sits on ?

 

Just forget it for now and put the whole ' must buy a condo ' project on hold for a year , renting in the meantime.

 

The visa requirements for staying in Thailand are in a state of flux right now so better to wait until there is a semblance of stability before rushing into an unwise purchase.

its a condo into a huge building garden of hundreds of condo, its long time project and just find the one i want  now i absolutely dont want to rent anymore.

got no problem for my visa at all, and in fact will only stay in Thai 6 month / year

[KittenKong]

You do not need a lawyer. In fact it is very rare for lawyers to be used for condo sales. If you do get a lawyer he wont do very much at all and so a few thousand Baht should cover it.

 

That said, it would be a good idea to have the assistance of a trustworthy person who can read Thai as nothing at the Land Office will be in English. Quite where you would find such a person, I dont know. I have met very few people in Thailand whom I would trust. Certainly no Thai lawyer is necessarily trustworthy, and the lawyer of the vendor is to be avoided at all costs, I think.

 

Questions you need to ask are:

 

Is the price sensible? Many asking prices here are way over the top.

 

Is the condo in Thai or Farang name? If Thai name, is the overall percentage of Farang owners in the building under 49%? If not you may not be able to transfer the unit at all. Ask the Juristic office of the building for confirmation of the current ratio.

 

Does the person who is selling the unit actually own it? His name should be on the chanote (title deed). Get a person who can read Thai to check the name on the deed against the name on his ID. The building office may be able to help with this, but be wary of trusting anyone who is any way associated with the sale. At the same time they can check if there are any liens on the unit, as these are written on the back of the chanote.

 

Is the building in good order? Is it well-managed? Are the finances sound? Does the unit you are interested in have any outstanding debts? The building office may help with these questions, though they are unlikely to tell you if they have been stealing all the building's money.

 

How are the transfer taxes/fees to be split? The taxes are, in theory, entirely the responsibility of the vendor. The fees are normally split, but vendors often attempt to split the taxes also if they think they can get away with it. The whole thing is 100% negotiable between the two parties.

 

Is there anything even slightly odd about the current ownership, the title deed or the current owner? If so, just walk away. There are more condos for sale in Thailand than you can shake a stick at, and finding another similar one is unlikely to be difficult.

 

Pay nothing up front and pay the entire cost of the unit by cashiers cheque at the Land Office when the sale actually takes place. Only pay cash for the taxes and fees (the Land Office only takes cash), and get a proper receipt for everything.

 

Never assume that anyone here is on your side. They are not.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, coollife99 said:

got no problem for my visa at all, and in fact will only stay in Thai 6 month / year

You do not need any sort of special visa to buy or own a condo, nor do you need to live here at all.

[KittenKong]

10 hours ago, coollife99 said:

i dont know where you from and i feel pity for you. but in my country you juste need 1 Notary and they are all trustable at 100%.

The same does not apply here. Trust no one.

[metisdead]

Unhelpful insulting posts and the replies have been removed.

[coollife99]

thanks KittenKong for your kind  and helpful answer

[1FinickyOne]

I would have no problem using a trusted lawyer... even the poster above who said you don't need a lawyer, recommended a trusted person... find an English speaking lawyer with Thai partners... get recommendations.

 

1. Does the person have the chanote? And the name match the seller? 

2. Is any maintenance $ owed to the condo?

3. Is there a mortgage against the chanote?

4. Thai or farang name?

 

Why wouldn't you want to pay an attorney to sort this out and whatever else?? That is off the top of my head... there may be more. 

 

Where is the condo? 

 

 

[AJBangkok]

2 hours ago, kenk24 said:

1. Does the person have the chanote? And the name match the seller?

2. Is any maintenance $ owed to the condo?

3. Is there a mortgage against the chanote?

4. Thai or farang name?

Not really things to worry about as if you dont have the correct paperwork the condo will not be transferred at the land office. 

 

1. The land office will not transfer the condo without a chanote and they will require all the owners ID and multiple signatures from the owner.

2. The condo must provide a letter to the land office to say maintenance is paid up or the land office will not transfer it.

3. The land office will not transfer the chanote if there is a mortgage on it. The bank representative must provide a release before the transfer and the mortgage on the back of the chanote will be cancelled before the transfer.

4. The condo manager must provide a letter stating that the purchase will not take the foreign ownership in the condo over 49%

 

These are all standard documents so there is nothing special you need to do.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, AJBangkok said:

Not really things to worry about as if you dont have the correct paperwork the condo will not be transferred at the land office. 

 

1. The land office will not transfer the condo without a chanote and they will require all the owners ID and multiple signatures from the owner.

2. The condo must provide a letter to the land office to say maintenance is paid up or the land office will not transfer it.

3. The land office will not transfer the chanote if there is a mortgage on it. The bank representative must provide a release before the transfer and the mortgage on the back of the chanote will be cancelled before the transfer.

4. The condo manager must provide a letter stating that the purchase will not take the foreign ownership in the condo over 49%

 

These are all standard documents so there is nothing special you need to do.

Great info here... but if there is a mortgage, does the bank need to be present at the transfer of funds? And the transfer of the chanote? 

[HampiK]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

Great info here... but if there is a mortgage, does the bank need to be present at the transfer of funds? And the transfer of the chanote? 

At the land office normally it has persons from all different banks available. And yes some of the bank need to be present. When there is a mortgage, the condo on the Chanote will actually not in the seller names.. it will be in the bank name.. so the seller have to pay back the money first to the bank so the condo goes back to him.. and then he can sell the condo to the buyer.

 

So if you buy a first hand condo with a mortgage I think you would be then the person 4 in the chanote.

- 1. Owner, 2. Bank, 3. Owner, 4 New Owner.

[newnative]

8 hours ago, kenk24 said:

I would have no problem using a trusted lawyer... even the poster above who said you don't need a lawyer, recommended a trusted person... find an English speaking lawyer with Thai partners... get recommendations.

 

1. Does the person have the chanote? And the name match the seller? 

2. Is any maintenance $ owed to the condo?

3. Is there a mortgage against the chanote?

4. Thai or farang name?

 

Why wouldn't you want to pay an attorney to sort this out and whatever else?? That is off the top of my head... there may be more. 

 

Where is the condo? 

 

 

Totally agree.  There are lawyers that can be trusted in Pattaya. I think it's money well-spent to have a lawyer assist you--especially if it's your first condo purchase in Thailand.  I wouldn't want to go it alone at the Land Office, where everything is conducted in Thai.

[coollife99]

7 hours ago, AJBangkok said:

Not really things to worry about as if you dont have the correct paperwork the condo will not be transferred at the land office. 

 

1. The land office will not transfer the condo without a chanote and they will require all the owners ID and multiple signatures from the owner.

2. The condo must provide a letter to the land office to say maintenance is paid up or the land office will not transfer it.

3. The land office will not transfer the chanote if there is a mortgage on it. The bank representative must provide a release before the transfer and the mortgage on the back of the chanote will be cancelled before the transfer.

4. The condo manager must provide a letter stating that the purchase will not take the foreign ownership in the condo over 49%

 

These are all standard documents so there is nothing special you need to do.

see under this angle, there is no real use of get a service of a lawyer, as all bad situation can be avoid. so what can go wrong ?

 

but the other poster scary me a bit and push me to get a lawyer, why if everything AJBangkok say its true ?

 

i just try to understand as yes its my first purchase in Thailand

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, AJBangkok said:

Not really things to worry about as if you dont have the correct paperwork the condo will not be transferred at the land office. 

This is true, though the Land Office dont care whether the unit being transferred is actually the one the buyer thinks he is buying, so that is something I would want to check.

 

Also, it doesnt hurt to check any of these things before the event, especially if a deposit or pre-payment of any type is being made. Even if a deposit isnt being made, as a buyer I would rather not have any surprises or holdups -even temporary ones - at the Land Office as I would probably have made plans to move out of my old condo and into my new one. I may even have sold my old one in preparation.

[lassebasse]

Since the new owner is a Farang must he not  show that he has brought his funds from overseas into Thailand?

 

[Fairynuff]

On 11/10/2018 at 6:04 AM, AJBangkok said:

Not really things to worry about as if you dont have the correct paperwork the condo will not be transferred at the land office. 

 

1. The land office will not transfer the condo without a chanote and they will require all the owners ID and multiple signatures from the owner.

2. The condo must provide a letter to the land office to say maintenance is paid up or the land office will not transfer it.

3. The land office will not transfer the chanote if there is a mortgage on it. The bank representative must provide a release before the transfer and the mortgage on the back of the chanote will be cancelled before the transfer.

4. The condo manager must provide a letter stating that the purchase will not take the foreign ownership in the condo over 49%

 

These are all standard documents so there is nothing special you need to do.

Quite right. Of all the condos I’ve bought and sold in Thailand some from owners, some from developers and some off plan I have never used a lawyer. I do however always have a very trusted Thai person to check all documents with me

[Fairynuff]

On 11/8/2018 at 4:36 PM, Denim said:

A freehold condo ?

 

Are you buying the whole building and the land it sits on ?

 

Just forget it for now and put the whole ' must buy a condo ' project on hold for a year , renting in the meantime.

 

The visa requirements for staying in Thailand are in a state of flux right now so better to wait until there is a semblance of stability before rushing into an unwise purchase.

Your post shows that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about! You don’t even understand the concept of freehold. Better to say nothing than make a fool of yourself IMHO

[KittenKong]

52 minutes ago, lassebasse said:

Since the new owner is a Farang must he not  show that he has brought his funds from overseas into Thailand?

Indeed. The Land Office will not do the transfer without this.

 

But the OP seemed to be asking about things he should be checking rather than things he should be doing himself.

[Denim]

1 hour ago, Fairynuff said:

Your post shows that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about! You don’t even understand the concept of freehold. Better to say nothing than make a fool of yourself IMHO

In that case , for the benefit of myself and any others reading this who might be interested but are ignorant of the concept of freehold in Thailand , it would be very helpful if you could give a brief explanation of it.

 

In the UK it is generally understood to mean that apart from the building you also have unlimited tenure of the land it sits on . Most apartments are leasehold, typically 100 years or more. You don't get to own the land.

 

If you buy a freehold apartment in Thailand , who owns the land ?

 

This is a polite and genuine request not a fatuous riposte. An answer would be very useful , if not from yourself then any other poster.

 

I have known several westerners who were keen to retire in Thailand having had enjoyable holidays here.

On retirement they came and immediately bought condos ( in Pattaya mostly but also one in Bangkok ). However, several of them regretted moving here and rushing into things . A more careful approach might have been a wiser way to go. Hence my first post.

[Fairynuff]

29 minutes ago, Denim said:

In that case , for the benefit of myself and any others reading this who might be interested but are ignorant of the concept of freehold in Thailand , it would be very helpful if you could give a brief explanation of it.

 

In the UK it is generally understood to mean that apart from the building you also have unlimited tenure of the land it sits on . Most apartments are leasehold, typically 100 years or more. You don't get to own the land.

 

If you buy a freehold apartment in Thailand , who owns the land ?

 

This is a polite and genuine request not a fatuous riposte. An answer would be very useful , if not from yourself then any other poster.

 

I have known several westerners who were keen to retire in Thailand having had enjoyable holidays here.

On retirement they came and immediately bought condos ( in Pattaya mostly but also one in Bangkok ). However, several of them regretted moving here and rushing into things . A more careful approach might have been a wiser way to go. Hence my first post.

I’m aware that freehold in the Uk means you also own the land but here it’s different. As you probably know the only way most foreigners can own land is to basically skirt the law which personally I’d never do.

A freehold condo means you own the condo for as long as the building stands. Leasehold  condos are quite rare as far as I know except in Bangkok when they’re built on Royal land like Rajdamri or Langsuan. Also in some areas like Pattaya where the foreign quota is exceeded and therefore has to be in a Thai name and leased for 30 years which again I’d never consider. From my point of view if it’s not MY name on the title deed I’m not interested  

[Denim]

9 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

I’m aware that freehold in the Uk means you also own the land but here it’s different. As you probably know the only way most foreigners can own land is to basically skirt the law which personally I’d never do.

A freehold condo means you own the condo for as long as the building stands. Leasehold  condos are quite rare as far as I know except in Bangkok when they’re built on Royal land like Rajdamri or Langsuan. Also in some areas like Pattaya where the foreign quota is exceeded and therefore has to be in a Thai name and leased for 30 years which again I’d never consider. From my point of view if it’s not MY name on the title deed I’m not interested  

 

Thank you for the prompt and useful answer , much appreciated.

 

I wonder what the life expectancy of the typical condo  here will turn out to be given that most of the high rise buildings can't be that old. On my first visit here in 1979 there were almost none .

 

Perhaps another thing the OP should consider if purchasing in greater Bangkok is whether the area is prone to flooding. We had to evacuate our house for two months during the big flood several years ago.

[Fairynuff]

10 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

Thank you for the prompt and useful answer , much appreciated.

 

I wonder what the life expectancy of the typical condo  here will turn out to be given that most of the high rise buildings can't be that old. On my first visit here in 1979 there were almost none .

 

Perhaps another thing the OP should consider if purchasing in greater Bangkok is whether the area is prone to flooding. We had to evacuate our house for two months during the big flood several years ago.

Could you DM me please

[Denim]

1 minute ago, Fairynuff said:

Could you DM me please

DM .... Sorry....what is that ?

 

Dirty massage ? Direct message ?

[Fairynuff]

8 minutes ago, Denim said:

DM .... Sorry....what is that ?

 

Dirty massage ? Direct message ?

Think I’d prefer the 2nd option if that’s ok

[Denim]

5 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

Think I’d prefer the 2nd option if that’s ok

Roger that. ( not literally of course )

[coollife99]

On 11/10/2018 at 8:55 PM, KittenKong said:

This is true, though the Land Office dont care whether the unit being transferred is actually the one the buyer thinks he is buying, so that is something I would want to check.

 

Also, it doesnt hurt to check any of these things before the event, especially if a deposit or pre-payment of any type is being made. Even if a deposit isnt being made, as a buyer I would rather not have any surprises or holdups -even temporary ones - at the Land Office as I would probably have made plans to move out of my old condo and into my new one. I may even have sold my old one in preparation.

i guess the building name and uniot floor and condo numer is writed on the chanote no ? ( in Thai at least )

 

i dont make any deposit will pay with a cashier bank check the Dday after signature, an no special plan of moving in directly, in my case only plan to buy, to make some new decoration on it and then come to live there in around 4/6 month only.

but thanks for your message, its legit question 

[coollife99]

4 hours ago, lassebasse said:

Since the new owner is a Farang must he not  show that he has brought his funds from overseas into Thailand?

 

yes im aware of this and it will be like this, to get this famous FET paper as proof of imported fund

[coollife99]

4 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

 I do however always have a very trusted Thai person to check all documents with me

good to know, can i ask you what did you check exactly if all the previous things are checked ? seems only the condo building, name floor and number is to check or something else ?

Edited November 11, 2018 by coollife99

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Denim said:

If you buy a freehold apartment in Thailand , who owns the land ?

A farang cannot buy an apartment but he can buy a condo.

 

A condominium is a shared ownership legal structure in which individual units have title deeds and can be bought and sold. The co-ownership also owns the common areas like elevators, corridors, roof, external walls, pool, gardens, office, outbuildings, car park, and it also owns the land on which all these are built. It also owns all the common fittings like gym equipment, pumps, office equipment etc. Each co-owner owns a proportion of all the common areas and fittings, based on the original value of their unit as a proportion of the whole. Voting rights at an AGM are attributed in the same proportion. So the owner of a large unit owns more of the common areas than someone with a small unit, and he also has a larger voting share.

 

If one day a condo were to be demolished (the Condo Act does allow for this), co-owners would still own a proportion of the land.

 

Apparently some condos in some areas are actually built on leased land. I dont think I have ever seen one but I would avoid buying into those like the plague.