FYI - U.S. Consulate Chiang Mai town hall meeting November 20th Chiang Mai University

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I am coasting into retirement with a 1 Million USD portfolio paying over $60,000 a year in dividends and interest, and I have not even started social security until next year.  

WOW! that sure sounds ELITE to me.

[onera1961]

7 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I am coasting into retirement with a 1 Million USD portfolio paying over $60,000 a year in dividends and interest,

My thinking is Thailand wants wealthy retirees like you for long-term stay and there is already an avenue like Elite (500K or half a million out of 30 million) for under 50. For over 50, you have to park 800K out of 30 million and that will reduce your 60K USD income by only a meagre 3%). You have even an option to go back home every two year and get an O-A. I saw a YouTube video where the guy got his O-A using his IRA statement as bank balance for O-A. I think embassies are more able to make that determination than immigration inside Thailand.

What they don't want is people living on $1000 USD without even a savings of 800K baht. If you have at least a savings of 800K baht, you can live on $1000/month. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by onera1961

[gk10002000]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

WOW! that sure sounds ELITE to me.

But I should not have to pay for the elite when all I need is the basic retirement extension, especially since I will only be planning to be in  Thailand about 6 months total for a year, maybe more, maybe less depending on events.

[onera1961]

9 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

But I should not have to pay for the elite when all I need is the basic retirement extension, especially since I will only be planning to be in  Thailand about 6 months total for a year, maybe more, maybe less depending on events.

You can also get an METV/year. I don't think immigration will question if you have an METV/year or a few SETVs from your home country with a month or two break. Of course it does not provide flexibility like an O-A visa (Or yearly extension)  that you can use to enter whenever you want.

[JLCrab]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

But I should not have to pay for the elite when all I need is the basic retirement extension, especially since I will only be planning to be in  Thailand about 6 months total for a year, maybe more, maybe less depending on events.

I agree -- a financial stud like yourself should get the retirement extension on the spot at your IMM office of choice. You betcha.

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, JLCrab said:

I agree -- a financial stud like yourself should get the retirement extension on the spot at your IMM office of choice. You betcha.

Pretty inane and rude and crude post but that is typical from you

[BertM]

16 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

But I should not have to pay for the elite when all I need is the basic retirement extension, especially since I will only be planning to be in  Thailand about 6 months total for a year, maybe more, maybe less depending on events.

You seem to have been a member of TVF since 2004 and have over 7,000 posts, so I'm sure you know you don't need to pay for an Elite visa... unless I'm missing the intent of your comment. I don't know what you have been using and don't want to start reading back thru all the posts to see, but you can do what most people will have to do when the income affidavits are no longer issued, is to open a Thai bank account, xfer 800k THB to it and then get your extension after the 3 mths of seasoning. If you have the 1mm USD in investments, then using 25k to park in a Thai bank shouldn't be a big problem. Am I missing something? Best regards...

Edited November 28, 2018 by BertM

[ubonjoe]

On 11/28/2018 at 7:12 AM, gk10002000 said:

But I should not have to pay for the elite when all I need is the basic retirement extension, especially since I will only be planning to be in  Thailand about 6 months total for a year, maybe more, maybe less depending on events.

It seems to me that your best option is to apply for a OA long stay visa at the embassy in DC or one of the official consulates.

You could show your income from your investments to meet the 65k baht requirement or proof of the equivalent of 800k baht in a US financial institution.

You could travel as much as you want since the visa allow unlimited one year entry for a year from the date it is issued. You can get a multiple re-entry permit prior to visa expiring to keep the last entry valid after your the visa expires can allow a total stay of over a year.

See: http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-category-oa/

 

[onera1961]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It seems to me that your best option is to apply for a OA long stay visa at the embassy in DC or one of the official consulates.

You could show your income from your investments to meet the 65k baht requirement or proof of the equivalent of 800k baht in a US financial institution.

You could travel as much as you want since the visa allow unlimited one year entry for a year from the date it is issued. You can get a multiple re-entry permit prior to visa expiring to keep the last entry valid after your the visa expires can allow a total stay of over a year.

I did exactly the same for my first O-A visa from Washington, DC. But I had around 30K USD in my ally bank savings account that I used. I was reading the French embassy O-A visa requirements, it says that for the second and subsequent O-A visas, it requires 800K baht in a Thai bank. Washington DC website does not mention such requirements. Not sure what Washington DC will require  when I apply for my second O-A around March 2020. We will see. 

[CMNightRider]

8 hours ago, BertM said:

You seem to have been a member of TVF since 2004 and have over 7,000 posts, so I'm sure you know you don't need to pay for an Elite visa... unless I'm missing the intent of your comment. I don't know what you have been using and don't want to start reading back thru all the posts to see, but you can do what most people will have to do when the income affidavits are no longer issued, is to open a Thai bank account, xfer 800k THB to it and then get your extension after the 3 mths of seasoning. If you have the 1mm USD in investments, then using 25k to park in a Thai bank shouldn't be a big problem. Am I missing something? Best regards...

I think you are missing something.  One of the reasons this guy has $1,000,000 in investments is he doesn't do stupid things like put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, when he can clearly show he has far more than is required to live in Thailand in US currency in the states.  

 

It really is poor money management to keep money like that in a Thai bank for so many reasons.  For individuals that aren't concern with making the most from their savings, then going along with immigrations idiotic requirement of depositing 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank is okay.    

[jacko45k]

15 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I think you are missing something.  One of the reasons this guy has $1,000,000 in investments is he doesn't do stupid things like put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, when he can clearly show he has far more than is required to live in Thailand in US currency in the states.  

 

It really is poor money management to keep money like that in a Thai bank for so many reasons.  For individuals that aren't concern with making the most from their savings, then going along with immigrations idiotic requirement of depositing 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank is okay.    

You can't spend US$ currently in the US to support yourself while living in Thailand.

I am unsure what is avialable to be made in the USA on this 800k, if it is 5% after taxes it is 40,000 baht, minus the costs of alternative proof of income, minus Embassy fees, time and expenses obtaining the letters, plus any ministerial verification. It is not an idiotic requirement, just a cost of living in Thailand, like paying your annual car vehicle tax. Except you get to keep the money. And again, once the extension is obtained, the money can be applied to living expenses and drawn down on. It needs only be there 3 months, then can be spent in entirety. Isn't that really substantially less? Simply drawing your living expenses money in advance.

Edited November 29, 2018 by jacko45k

[ubonjoe]

46 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Not sure what Washington DC will require  when I apply for my second O-A around March 2020.

Same as the first one. There are people that have been getting one every year without a problem.

The embassy in Paris has some strange requirements for many things.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Same as the first one. There are people that have been getting one every year without a problem.

The embassy in Paris has some strange requirements for many things.

And could actually ease the burden by doing it only every 2 years I suppose.

[CMNightRider]

22 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You can't spend US$ currently in the US to support yourself while living in Thailand.

I am unsure what is avialable to be made in the USA on this 800k, if it is 5% after taxes it is 40,000 baht, minus the costs of alternative proof of income, minus Embassy fees, time and expenses obtaining the letters, plus any ministerial verification. It is not an idiotic requirement, just a cost of living in Thailand, like paying your annual car vehicle tax. Except you get to keep the money. And again, once the extension is obtained, the money can be applied to living expenses and drawn down on. It needs only be there 3 months, then can be spent in entirety. Isn't that really substantially less? Simply drawing your living expenses money in advance.

When your money is in the US, you simply go to Bangkok bank, with your ATM card and draw the funds you need.  800,000 in US currency is around $24,000.  When invested in the market, you can expect it to double in value within six to eight years.

 

If you like having this much money in a Thai bank then good for you.  For people who enjoy getting the most for their money, it isn't good money management.

 

 

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

When your money is in the US, you simply go to Bangkok bank, with your ATM card and draw the funds you need.  800,000 in US currency is around $24,000.  When invested in the market, you can expect it to double in value within six to eight years.

 

If you like having this much money in a Thai bank then good for you.  For people who enjoy getting the most for their money, it isn't good money management.

 

 

Older retired people have no need for financial plans that take 6-8 years! ???? 

 

I always felt the proof of income efforts and expenses a little onerous and, being lazy, having 800k deposited for 3 months looks so much easier, I don't necessarily like it. Just get a little irritated by being called stupid for that decision. Also, one day I may need access to some emergency cash. 

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

And could actually ease the burden by doing it only every 2 years I suppose.

Yes if you can time it right to do an entry just before your OA visa expires and then getting a re-entry permit to keep the last entry valid if you want to travel during that year.

I used a year as an example since some people make a trip to the states every year and it works better for them to get it earlier.

[BertM]

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

I think you are missing something.  One of the reasons this guy has $1,000,000 in investments is he doesn't do stupid things like put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, when he can clearly show he has far more than is required to live in Thailand in US currency in the states.  

 

It really is poor money management to keep money like that in a Thai bank for so many reasons.  For individuals that aren't concern with making the most from their savings, then going along with immigrations idiotic requirement of depositing 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank is okay.    

I think you're missing something... I have 2 1/2 times what he has in my investment accounts, plus a company pension & social security which is more than double that person's yearly income and I always keep $25k liquid for emergencies which is a recommended practice. I move $45k to Thailand in 3 moves ($15k each, no fees) during the year for spending money and use my Capital One CC (no fees) for my other expenses. So, it is not a problem to move $25k over in one of the moves 3 mths prior to the extension application then start spending it down and top it off again in 9 mths. Your example of leaving it in the US to invest & double scenario doesn't hold water. If you have to move that much money during the year anyway, then you are not investing it for 6 to 8 years... And, sorry... but it's NOT an idiotic TI requirement. TI wants to make sure people have enough money to support themselves and not be deadbeats... Kindly... (from a retired financial advisor who's living a wonderful life in the LOS and traveling the world) signing off now to go see the world.

Edited November 29, 2018 by BertM

[CMNightRider]

12 minutes ago, BertM said:

I think you're missing something... I have 2 1/2 times what he has in my investment accounts, plus a company pension & social security which is more than double that person's yearly income and I always keep $25k liquid for emergencies which is a recommended practice. I move $45k to Thailand in 3 moves ($15k each, no fees) during the year for spending money and use my Capital One CC (no fees) for my other expenses. So, it is not a problem to move $25k over in one of the moves 3 mths prior to the extension application then start spending it down and top it off again in 9 mths. Your example of leaving it in the US to invest & double scenario doesn't hold water. If you have to move that much money during the year anyway, then you are not investing it for 6 to 8 years... And, sorry... but it's NOT an idiotic TI requirement. TI wants to make sure people have enough money to support themselves and not be deadbeats... Kindly... (from a retired financial advisor who's living a wonderful life in the LOS and traveling the world) signing off now to go see the world.

Good for you, lol

[Dante99]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Older retired people have no need for financial plans that take 6-8 years! ???? 

 

I always felt the proof of income efforts and expenses a little onerous and, being lazy, having 800k deposited for 3 months looks so much easier, I don't necessarily like it. Just get a little irritated by being called stupid for that decision. Also, one day I may need access to some emergency cash. 

You are not stupid for that decision.  Those that suggest you are are the stupid ones because they know nothing about your finances.  I know you have about US$10 million in investments so $25,000 (0.25% of your assets) is really small change for you, in your situation, I would feel the same.  Have compassion for those who have to manage every $25,000 so carefully, maybe someday they will hit the lottery.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

You are not stupid for that decision.  Those that suggest you are are the stupid ones because they know nothing about your finances.  I know you have about US$10 million in investments so $25,000 (0.25% of your assets) is really small change for you, in your situation, I would feel the same.  Have compassion for those who have to manage every $25,000 so carefully, maybe someday they will hit the lottery.

I wish!

[billd766]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I wish!

Me too. ????

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

It really is poor money management to keep money like that in a Thai bank for so many reasons.  ---snip --

Hopefully, as we're well into our retirement years, our portfolios are balanced towards preservation of capital, and that we invested wisely -- which doesn't mean risk free -- in our younger years to meet our retirement portfolio goal.

 

And now, as I'm in my 70's, I'm more than comfortable, having invested wisely, and boldly, as a youngster (probably denying myself some benefits when I was young enough to enjoy). So, now I'm only 20% in stocks, and the rest is risk free (FDIC) liquid (or near liquid) "investments." I don't need any income production from these (although there certainly is some), and my daily living expenses are more than covered by Air Force and Social Security checks. And, if the stocks crashed, I'd still be just fine financially (so it's a risk I can absorb).

 

My USAA CDs earn .76% for one-year CDs. Bangkok Bank fixed deposit, one-year, earns 1.5%. I tried to open a better paying CD avenue (Capitol One), but my mail forwarding address hit "tilt", so no can do. Thus, why not bring the money to Thailand, as trading US liquid assets for Thai -- and getting what now seems an easy method to Immigration extension renewal -- is really a no brainer for someone in my situation.

 

Obviously, different strokes for different folks. For the poster trying to maximize his returns (presumably to reach his retirement portfolio goal---?), then, yes, the 800k to Thailand could be costly (or, depending on risk, could cost him $25000, otherwise safely invested in Thailand......).

 

And, in another thread, see a post by Sheryl, who confirms she -- and probably no other depositor -- lost bank account money in the 1997 crisis. And, with lessons learned from then, I can't imagine why anyone would be nervous about having some of their portfolio in the country where they are living......particularly if it eases annual extension renewals. And particularly if this comes from the liquid, risk free end of your portfolio (you do have this aspect of diversification in your portfolio, right?).

[zydeco]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:30 PM, ubonjoe said:

I think that has been partly resolved. The SSA is already sending most of the transfers in IAT format according to info given by out by Bangkok bank. 

You just need to verify that yours is being done in the IAT format.

This info from one of the various topics running about it.

Easier said than done. I've been to three Bangkok Bank branches and asked if my social security deposit met the IAT format.  After phoning and talking, no answer. 

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

And particularly if this comes from the liquid, risk free end of your portfolio (you do have this aspect of diversification in your portfolio, right?).

Well put Jim.  Thanks.

[gk10002000]

21 hours ago, BertM said:

You seem to have been a member of TVF since 2004 and have over 7,000 posts, so I'm sure you know you don't need to pay for an Elite visa... unless I'm missing the intent of your comment. I don't know what you have been using and don't want to start reading back thru all the posts to see, but you can do what most people will have to do when the income affidavits are no longer issued, is to open a Thai bank account, xfer 800k THB to it and then get your extension after the 3 mths of seasoning. If you have the 1mm USD in investments, then using 25k to park in a Thai bank shouldn't be a big problem. Am I missing something? Best regards...

Missing something?  Yes.  800 k baht is 25K USD which is safe and secure in the USA earning dividend and interest.  Also, not having > 10K USD in a foreign account eliminates the need for any financial reporting to the USA.  And most importantly I wouldn't trust any significant amount of money or any asset in Thailand.  Just My likes and dislikes

[BertM]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

Missing something?  Yes.  800 k baht is 25K USD which is safe and secure in the USA earning dividend and interest.  Also, not having > 10K USD in a foreign account eliminates the need for any financial reporting to the USA.  And most importantly I wouldn't trust any significant amount of money or any asset in Thailand.  Just My likes and dislikes

I understand, it's your personal preference. I used the income affidavit & income method before because it was so easy, but will use the 800k bank account method in 2019. I move about $45k to Citibank Thailand in 3 moves ($15k ea.) during the year for my THB spending needs, so I'm over the 10k limit anyway. It only takes me about 10 min to do the FBAR reporting, so not a problem for me. Now, I will just move $25k twice a year and xfer one of the $25k moves to KBank 3 mths prior to my renewal then xfer it back to Citi after the renewal. I'm not concerned about the loss of interest on the $25k because I keep that much in cash anyway for emergencies. Best of luck...

[gk10002000]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:43 AM, BertM said:

I understand, it's your personal preference. I used the income affidavit & income method before because it was so easy, but will use the 800k bank account method in 2019. I move about $45k to Citibank Thailand in 3 moves ($15k ea.) during the year for my THB spending needs, so I'm over the 10k limit anyway. It only takes me about 10 min to do the FBAR reporting, so not a problem for me. Now, I will just move $25k twice a year and xfer one of the $25k moves to KBank 3 mths prior to my renewal then xfer it back to Citi after the renewal. I'm not concerned about the loss of interest on the $25k because I keep that much in cash anyway for emergencies. Best of luck...

Now see, this is an example of people bending the rules, moving money in then out.  Granted it meets the current 90 day seasoning requirement.  But how would that reconcile with the supposed new income proofs where they want or may want 65k a month transferred in?  Seems obvious money could be shell gamed in ways even I have not thought of.

[JLCrab]

46 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

But how would that reconcile with the supposed new income proofs where they want or may want 65k a month transferred in?  Seems obvious money could be shell gamed in ways even I have not thought of.

The soon to be obsolete US Embassy Bangkok income affidavit states:

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $__ from sources in the United States. 

 

If you had to sign a statement to that monthly income effect when applying for an extension of stay in addition to your foreign deposits in a Thai account passbook, then if you're only playing a shell game, you have made a false statement to an RTP police official in an RTP police station which is maybe not the same as a false statement to a US Consular official on an income affidavit.

[CMNightRider]

33 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The soon to be obsolete US Embassy Bangkok income affidavit states:

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $__ from sources in the United States. 

 

If you had to sign a statement to that monthly income effect when applying for an extension of stay in addition to your foreign deposits in a Thai account passbook, then if you're only playing a shell game, you have made a false statement to an RTP police official in an RTP police station which is maybe not the same as a false statement to a US Consular official on an income affidavit.

That should cause a lot of sleepless nights for a few Thai Visa posters, lol ????

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

Now see, this is an example of people bending the rules, moving money in then out.  Granted it meets the current 90 day seasoning requirement.  But how would that reconcile with the supposed new income proofs where they want or may want 65k a month transferred in?  Seems obvious money could be shell gamed in ways even I have not thought of.

I don't understand. How is it a shell game? He is moving money from one of his account to another account for seasoning purposes only (if I understand correctly). No game is involved here. I think the poster is doing 800K money method not income method for his extension.