FYI - U.S. Consulate Chiang Mai town hall meeting November 20th Chiang Mai University

[onera1961]

41 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Not correct- a 1099 is sent  by  Social Security and  other entities showing exactly how much one is paid. You do not fill out a 1099- it is an official  document from an income source. The 1040 Form is what you report your taxes on and then submit your 1099 ALONG WITH YOUR 1040.

Very easy to read- get one every year.  Very easy for the IO to understand and read.

Sorry it was my mistake. Morning hangover. Well, 1099 can also be faked. I created my own 1009-MISC to send to freelancers who I have paid to when I had a business. I could create one for myself and not report to IRS. It is created by businesses (or Government entities) whenever a payment to a person exceeds 600 USD in a year

Edited November 22, 2018 by onera1961

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Sorry it was my mistake. Morning hangover. Well, 1099 can also be faked. I created my own 1009-C to report people who I have paid to when I had a business. I could create one for myself and not report to IRS.

The SSA-1099 I get in the mail in January every year would be very hard to fake. It comes as one of those tear off the ends and peel apart letters that is 2 sided and about 17 inches long. About the same for letter I get in December stating my benefits for next year that is 21 inches long.

[BertM]

20 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Sorry it was my mistake. Morning hangover. Well, 1099 can also be faked. I created my own 1009-MISC to send to freelancers who I have paid to when I had a business. I could create one for myself and not report to IRS.

You are correct... You can easily edit a document with the proper pdf program or you can convert to word & edit, but sometimes the format changes a little... Most of my 1099s come electronically and not by mail, so they can be easily edited.

This entire situation is and will be the biggest SNAFU when the income letters are no longer accepted.

Edited November 22, 2018 by BertM

[onera1961]

5 minutes ago, BertM said:

This entire situation is and will be the biggest SNAFU when the income letters are no longer accepted.

Money in a Thai bank is the only solution I can think of. Of course one can fake it by recycling locally and IO can interview the person about the source of the money on a case-by-case basis if they suspect something fishy as they do it now with income letters also for the source of incomes.

[onera1961]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The SSA-1099 I get in the mail in January every year would be very hard to fake. It comes as one of those tear off the ends and peel apart letters that is 2 sided and about 17 inches long. About the same for letter I get in December stating my benefits for next year that is 21 inches long.

The requirement is income not SS income. I can get all my income from 1099-DIV, 1099-INT, 1099-MISC. There are more than a dozen 1099. Even 1099-G (Government 1099) can be faked. You can create your own 1099-MISC for TI and not report to IRS

[JLCrab]

So then Thai IMM would to have a procedure for when the 1099 or SSA monthly distribution is less than 65K baht per month.

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

So then Thai IMM would to have a procedure for when the 1099 or SSA monthly distribution is less than 65K baht per month.

In the US, I don't know any income that is not reported in 1099, unless it is less than USD 600. Even most legitimate businesses report less than 600 on 1099 because reported amount can be used for business expense deduction. Of course, there are foreign incomes. If one is filing 1040, he must report world wide incomes (not necessarily pay tax on that).

[JLCrab]

I guess you could say if 1099 was accepted but less than 65K baht per month then the balance could be covered in a bank account as with combination method but that would be up-to -them at IMM.

[BoBoTheClown]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Not correct- a 1099 is sent  by  Social Security and  other entities showing exactly how much one is paid. You do not fill out a 1099- it is an official  document from an income source. The 1040 Form is what you report your taxes on and then submit your 1099 ALONG WITH YOUR 1040.

Very easy to read- get one every year.  Very easy for the IO to understand and read.

I used mine at TI in Chiang Mai on Nov 3rd. It was accepted and my extension of stay was granted. 

[NancyL]

Hubby used his 1099-SS and 1099-R from a private pension to back up his visa extension application in Chiang Mai on October 25.  They wanted to see both an Income Letter from the Consulate and back-up.  These two income streams are more than enough to get him over the 65,000 baht/month requirement.  No point in adding in the rest and confusing them with the 1099-DIVs, 1099-INTs and 1099-MISCs.  And yes, the 1099s were for the 2017 tax year and he was applying for his visa extension in October 2018. 

 

Fortunately, he didn't have to show evidence of where the income streams were deposited.  While his private pension is deposited in Bangkok Bank, it's in a joint account and his SS is deposited into a U.S. credit union account that just shows as being in my name, although he has signature authority.  We use that account as our primary U.S. account.  We were sweating about what would happen if they asked to see deposit records.

[Pib]

All the different posts on different sides of the fence.  Some saying TI should have no problem understanding various US tax/income docs; others saying TI will have problems.   Some saying applicants can easily obtain needed tax/income docs (and they will never be fake); others saying not so in all cases.

 

If I was TI immigration setting up in the spectator stands watching this back and forth discussion I would just say this game will never end....too many variations & problems with this approach.

 

What I'm going to do instead is use the KISS principle and just require average monthly transfers into a Thai bank account with a Thai bank letter and passbook as proof just like I currently require for the Bt800/400K in a Thai bank method.   If the individual ends-up sending the money right back out so he can rotate it back in, then so be it I'm not going to concern myself with that as every income proof method will have some loopholes some people will abuse. 

 

Yea, except maybe for a grace period for part of 2019 where TI may accept income docs without a embassy letter, my money is TI will adopt a KISS principle approach of transfers into a Thai bank.  But hey, I may need to say I stand corrected if TI does permanently implement a method which just allows you to layout various income docs in front of an immigration officer as proof of required income.  

 

 

 

 

 

[bubba]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

My suggestion is to keep proceeds out of the country in a "buffer" account, and use that acct to seed the Thai account at or above the minimum required monthly level.  In my case, that means not sending "too much too soon" to retain sufficient funds for "lean" months - so sending money to Thailand is delayed, not accelerated.  In the past, when my business did well, I'd send over a larger chunk, then draw it down over time - not anymore. 

 

This may not be enough, of course, given the income is not from a govt-source with some sort of letter - but it is the best I can do.  Hopefully a year of transfers - or several, if I continue using Non-O-ME Visas (married to a Thai) - will provide a track-record sufficient to satisfy a measly 1-year extension at some point in the future.  I could back this up with the associated university degrees and a CV, if they are worried the business could fail - proving I could easily take a Thai's tech-job here, if I was so inclined (I'm not, unless forced to do this by immigration as a last-resort).

That seems like a good idea, Jack - not keeping 800K tied up in a Thai bank account for three months, with no way to grow it. The problem now is that with the elimination of consulate income verification, it is already too late to show an entire year of 65K monthly income.

 

As you mentioned, I keep hearing that TI want to see some sort of monthly government pension income. TI really do need to establish guidance regarding income for those of us who have not yet reached pension age.

[BertM]

54 minutes ago, BoBoTheClown said:

I used mine at TI in Chiang Mai on Nov 3rd. It was accepted and my extension of stay was granted. 

So, your 1099 was accepted as backup proof to the income affidavit from the US embassy? Or, are you saying that you didn't need to submit the income affidavit and you ONLY submitted the 1099?

Edited November 22, 2018 by BertM

[bubba]

Form 1099 shows a lump sum, annualised income, correct? So TI would use an average that shows in excess of 65K/month since the 1099 does not show monthly income?

 

If that is the case, then apparently TI do accept a 12 month average of annualised income.

[BertM]

2 minutes ago, bubba said:

Form 1099 shows a lump sum, annualised income, correct? So TI would use an average that shows in excess of 65K/month since the 1099 does not show monthly income?

 

If that is the case, then apparently TI do accept a 12 month average of annualised income.

Not so fast... he probably submitted the income affidavit and the 1099 as backup. I asked him to clarify...

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

The requirement is income not SS income.

That is not correct. Social security income will certainly be accepted by immigration.

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

The requirement is income not SS income. I can get all my income from 1099-DIV, 1099-INT, 1099-MISC. There are more than a dozen 1099. Even 1099-G (Government 1099) can be faked. You can create your own 1099-MISC for TI and not report to IRS

Yep, crooks will always find a way. And sometimes their way causes good people to suffer the consequences. Nonetheless, for the vast majority, not being crooks a path will be found.

[wwest5829]

On 11/8/2018 at 7:48 AM, watgate said:

I sent a message to you and basically it said I am currently residing in Chiang Mai or else I would be onboard with you in Bangkok. I concur that what was done by the US Embassy and Consulate was despicable. They basically took the easy way out and left the US Expat community out to dry. There was no accountability of these firmly entrenched government bureaucrats and they took the easy way out. There are many serious issues and potentially devastating effects to many expats who are currently residing in Thailand. These issues must be addressed by the US Embassy and Consulate and not swept under the rug for folks who have to navigate these serious concerns  themselves with no clear guidance or input into this matter by the US Embassy and Consulate.

 

[ThaiBob]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

The requirement is income not SS income. I can get all my income from 1099-DIV, 1099-INT, 1099-MISC. There are more than a dozen 1099. Even 1099-G (Government 1099) can be faked. You can create your own 1099-MISC for TI and not report to IRS

Official 1099's cannot reproduced by tax software. Yes, a person could fake a 1099 using tax software but it is an unofficial document.  Legal 1099's have a standardized format and received in the mail. Tax Software 1099's are used as data input forms and printed for record keeping purposes. Of course, this entire discussion can be avoided if our Embassy would setup computers so we can login to our government accounts and print to embassy printers (as mentioned in an earlier post). The Embassy should have no issue with verification as the forms we print for them unequivocal, undeniable factual coming from SSI and IRS systems. 

[JLCrab]

40 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Social security income will certainly be accepted by immigration.

Does Immigration know that?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Does Immigration know that?

Of course they do since it is a pension and that is one the types of income mentioned in police order 138/2557 that are accepted.

Clause 2.18 for marriage.

"5. Only for Criteria (5) paragraph 1 and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency."

Clause 2.22 for retirement.

"3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends;"

[JLCrab]

57 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

for marriage.

All that was still with a income affidavit required from the respective Embassy. It is not certain that the Social Security statement will be necessary and sufficient as primary without a monthly bank deposit.

 

And I still say if you are married, that's your problem. (Yingluck my hero.)

Edited November 22, 2018 by JLCrab

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, ThaiBob said:

Official 1099's cannot reproduced by tax software. Yes, a person could fake a 1099 using tax software

Not tax software. But Software, specifically accounting software. Just google "print your own 1099 MISC". You will also find online tools for creating  1099 MISC. You can fill them, print them up and send to freelancers (and file it with IRS. which one can skip). 

They are also available for downloading (from IRS website, pre internet days you could order in bulk from IRS not sure about now) and typing and mailing to freelancers. When I was running an affiliate marketing business with my own products (circa 2011), I printed and mailed them to all my affiliates.

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

All that was still with a income affidavit required from the respective Embassy. It is not certain that the Social Security statement will be necessary and sufficient as primary without a monthly bank deposit.

Your post I replied to implied SS income would not be accepted at all. You wrote nothing about the proof of it.

I already have my monthly Thai bank deposits going back over 6 years.

 

34 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

And I still say if you are married, that's your problem.

After 17 years of marriage it is certainly not a problem.

[JLCrab]

I do not think the general tone of the discussion here is whether 1099 or social security documents will be accepted as secondary BACK-UP documents but many have suggested on this and other related topics that they would like to see such pension-related or even other documents as primary.

 

As for marriage, all I will say is This-Is-Thailand.

[onera1961]

SS income will always be accepted. But most people supplement that with other types income. IRA, 401K, individual savings, Life insurance annuity, dividend, interest, business income, rentals, etc. If it is only SS income, they may as well increase the age to 62, instead of 50 for retirement visa/extension. And if someone is getting 65K baht SS income (single) at 62, they must have had very high wage exceeding SS cap in the preceding ten years.

Edited November 22, 2018 by onera1961

[JimGant]

Pib said:

Quote

But when the dust settles my bet would be on monthly deposit flowing to the person's Thai bank account being the requirement as that is straight forth, less prone to fraud/fake docs, and easy for TI to understand.  The KISS principle.

This is becoming so obvious. TI is not going to sort thru a handful of 1099's, or brokerage sale statements, or whatever. Because what they are actually interested in is disposable cash flow, to include that annual gift from Grandma, or your Vegas winnings -- in addition to earned and unearned income. And furthermore, they're really only interested in disposable cash flow available for Thailand. So forget showing income statements, truthful as they may be --'cause TI is now going to the "show me the money" stage. This eliminates looking at income documents about income that will only see your former wife's bank account, and not available for spending in Thailand.

 

So, yeah, get prepared for sending (or depositing) money in a Thai bank account that, for those renewing their annual retirement extension, will show deposits (or one deposit at the beginning -- e.g., to save on SWIFT fees) totaling 780k over the previous 12 months.

 

Assume you are now living on at least 65k/mo in Thailand (I would hope a good assumption for most of us reading this......). But, assume the majority of your expenditures are by your cash back credit card from the home country. Then, assume you have enough surplus back home to continue to pay off your monthly credit card bills. Result: You only milk your Thai bank account for, say, 35k/mo of walking around money. The remaining 30k/mo accumulates, arriving at 800k in 2 years+, at which time you deposit it in account for future Immigration renewals -- and cancel the 65k/mo deposits.

 

So, after 2 years+, you're back to where you began -- but now no $50 for the embassy's income letter, plus no trip to town. Just a bank letter. And, assuming that 65k/mo to your Thai bank account would have been from liquid funds, drawing little interest, opportunity cost (at today's interest rates) would have been slight.

 

I can't see how this is all going to cause problems, at least for those of us who can 'show the money.' And hopefully for others, I hope somehow TI can show some accommodation measures.

 

And, of course, there will have to be phase in measures, for first time extension applicants (3 months of 65k deposits?). And for those caught in between old and new regs.

 

And for those fearing sending money to Thailand...I would suggest doing a little research on exactly what your risks are (little, in my research). Besides, I can only presume you're not sending the bulk of your savings over here -- so, why not a little diversification away from the Trump model ☺️.

[ningnong]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

 

"We will continue to notarize income affidavit forms through the end of 2018. Thai Immigration Bureau officials confirmed to us that they will support early visa renewals for U.S. citizens during the transition period"

 

In theory someone could go in for renewal months in advance to fall within the 6 month window the income affidavit is (maybe) good for?

 

For example:
If you're due for renewal in September 2019 would you be able to do the renewal in June 2019?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, ningnong said:

In theory someone could go in for renewal months in advance to fall within the 6 month window the income affidavit is (maybe) good for?

For example:
If you're due for renewal in September 2019 would you be able to do the renewal in June 2019?

Unless immigration makes a directive that will accept applications any earlier the 30 days or 45 day that is allowed I certainly would not plan on it being done.

Mine is due in August so I do not plan on getting an income affidavit at this time. I would have to be able to apply 60 days early to use it.

 

[JLCrab]

23 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And for those fearing sending money to Thailand..

I have now lived in Thailand for 15 years without ever having to make a bulk 800K baht deposit or pay for an Elite visa and, if I don't have to start now, then I am not going to start now.

 

I have already started the 65K+ FTT transfer just this month NOV and if the income route to extension of stay isn't clear I'll be in USA next JULY to go for an O-A.

Edited November 22, 2018 by JLCrab