A proactive approach to our current embassy letters.

[khunken]

I thank BB1958 for taking the time and effort into a proposal that has merit. I do, however detect a condescending attitude to those who legitimately questioned the Chinese inclusion.

I lake the idea as it allows those of us who are considered too old to purchase health insurance at anything but a rip-off rate.

I totally disagree with BB1958's assessment of Big Joke who, to me, has demonstrated no great intelligence and uses photo ops to claim credit for work that he has had no part in......the raising of the Phoenix being one of many examples.

As other posters have said, involvement of people of influence, possibly from the embassies, would be crucial in getting this proposal heard by those in the Interior Ministry.

[DJ54]

OP BB1958 sounds like a great idea on paper. Now how to put the plan in action. If we could get someone’s attention that’s innovative and they like the idea and want to present it’s a win win.

 

Attached is for fellow Americans who thought the US Embassy 

wasn’t listening. For those that complained congratulations you helped throw yourself under the bus...

 

For those who who have lived in The Kingdom continuously since Oct. 1998. Article relates to your income requirement of 20,000 bht

[NanLaew]

22 hours ago, BB1958 said:

... Add to this most Expats IMPORT at least 10-20++++ TIMES this amount of hard NEW currency into the Kingdom every month. ...

Talk about "quick & dirty" math. Gotta say, I'm interested in the 'science' behind that postulation. Does it come with its own batteries?

[DJ54]

1 hour ago, BB1958 said:

I find your post utterly confusing and disjointed, but then that's just me...

??? All opinions should be digested and part of the end goal solution......

[BB1958]

29 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Talk about "quick & dirty" math. Gotta say, I'm interested in the 'science' behind that postulation. Does it come with its own batteries?

I will spell it out as I can see the ambiguity, 10x2500 = 25,000 Baht per month 20x2500 = 50,000 Baht per month. The ++++ is for those that import more than 50,000 Baht per month.

Given the flippant nature of the rest of your post relating to "batteries", I suspect that it is possible you want to insult... Not sure on that one?

 

I will close for this evening, as I find... evenings to be "fueled" not by batteries.....???? Good Night.

Edited November 10, 2018 by BB1958

[elviajero]

@BB1958

 

A few expats may or may not have a problem proving their income in the future, and some (a lot IMO) of those will have been fraudulently claiming income making the actual number of legitimate expats affected even less -- and your solution is to charge everyone 30,000 baht per year! It seems you are just after cheap insurance!

 

A few points you haven't addressed that would be a priority to immigration;

• We have to prove income/cash to show that we can afford our temporary stay. How does 30K prove our financial standing?
• The financials are set at 65K/800K, and the age to 50+, partly to limit the numbers of qualifying expats. How are you going to control/stop an increase in expat numbers?

The simple solution, which immigration are already discussing/considering (reported by me 1 month ago), will be for expats to transfer funds regularly to their bank in Thailand so immigration can see the actual income. That should not be a problem for those that have a legitimate income. Problem solved! Those that can't, or don't want, to transfer the required funds will need to find another loophole to exploit, or go home.

 

Anyone that needs/wants insurance can buy it. An elderly ailing expat with no money in the bank or insurance should seriously think about returning home.

 

As I said earlier, the visa system needs an overhaul. Longer permits to stay for long term spouses/retirees would be a good start.

 

Anyone that thinks the Thai visa system is hard wants to try getting visas for Thais going the other way! They might then appreciate how easy we have it!

[Lovethailandelite]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I agree with what you are saying but what the 3 Embassies and some offices of Thai Imm are also saying is  show me the money which to me is also flawed.

 

To get to where you want to be with your proposal- time is needed. If you could walk into  'Big Jok' and he said yes today- it could not be implemented for quite some time- especially the collection of monies- the methodology and the  medical tie in. Several different ministries involved as well as the cabinet/

 

To make your plan come into fruition- there has to be a bridge  which buys time and to me the current letter system is  about as good as you can get  for the bridge without  the disruption which is being played out daily on this forum.  

 

I find it hard to believe that  the 3 Embassies and  the Police Commissioner cannot come to an 'agreement'  to continue the status quo for at least one more year.  To do this- there needs to be someone of stature- Thai or  Foreigner who says -Let's talk. Possibly a former Thai Ambassador to either the US/UK/AUS.   There is an open forum at the US Consulate in Chiang Mai- 20 Nov- if you are an American you might consider attending or send in your proposal for review.  Time is not on our side.

It's hardly an open forum. It is a 1 hour meeting from 2.30-3.30pm. I doubt there will be much time for any questions.

[DJ54]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I get what you are saying, but, if these forums are indeed MONITORED I believe we have already shot our collective selves in the foot here.

Your absolutely correct. I have no doubt that the forum is monitored along with other social media.

 

As in all things one needs to think what they post

 

[DJ54]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I get what you are saying, but, if these forums are indeed MONITORED I believe we have already shot our collective selves in the foot here.

Your absolutely correct. I have no doubt that the forum is monitored along with other social media.

 

As in all things one needs to think what they post

 

[DJ54]

4 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I have been here 20 years 

If you were here Oct. 1998 you may qualify for th 20,000 bht

as attached 

[Cricky]

I work offshore and have 1^st class insurance provided by my employer. This insurance is for my family - myself, spouse and children, why would I get additional insurance.

 

The system in place works for me, I have the 800,000 baht 3 months prior to extension every year, this pays for my children’s education and I top it up for expenses.

 

Changing things will complicate things for others, including myself.

What have you got in place for people in similar situation to mine?

 

I use the KISS method also, in addition "if ain't broke don’t fix it".

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It's hardly an open forum. It is a 1 hour meeting from 2.30-3.30pm. I doubt there will be much time for any questions.

But be careful no-one tries to grab the mic off you!

[JackThompson]

I've suggested elsewhere, limit the health-cover to "stabilize and repatriate."  

As for those who already have health-insurance - great - you can go to a private hospital and get the best care.  What I would propose, is a simple fail-safe to protect Thailand from any foreigner-health costs - so remove that as a stick to beat us with, claiming we are destitute income-liars who are mooching off their health-system.  Removing long-term care would cut the cost dramatically.

 

A higher figure - $1000 USD/yr you suggested - is something I've suggested be availed to under-50s working remotely - but would not fit with many retirees' budgets - and might also be difficult to finance on even that amount, given the age-brackets involved. 

 

But here's the real rub:

Expect that the Elite Visa and "agent money" beneficiary-chains would shoot this down in a heartbeat.  A Visa Agent fee is 25K Baht/yr, shared with the agents who process those extensions.  How would your system pay for their expensive cars, homes, and fun (which their salaries could never cover)?

 

Folks need to realize - this is not about us "really having the money" or "Thailand making money" as a country (to help their people with schools, etc) - it is about deep-state players, who have persisted through every change in govt for decades (how long have agents been around?). 

 

They are looking out only after "them and theirs" - not "Thailand" or what is right, true, and proper.  Every so-called "crackdown," follows this pattern - as is the likely outcome of this latest letter-change - more Agent and Elite business. 

 

FYI - I reached my level of cynicism about this after direct-experience with corrupt IOs and Amphur personnel - and was shocked, given the decency of most Thai people I have met, who are not part of bureaucratic-systems.

[Golden Triangle]

34 minutes ago, VYCM said:

I work offshore and have 1^st class insurance provided by my employer. This insurance is for my family - myself, spouse and children, why would I get additional insurance.

 

The system in place works for me, I have the 800,000 baht 3 months prior to extension every year, this pays for my children’s education and I top it up for expenses.

 

Changing things will complicate things for others, including myself.

What have you got in place for people in similar situation to mine?

 

I use the KISS method also, in addition "if ain't broke don’t fix it".

And how old are you ? And when you either get laid off (as a hell of a lot of my mates have been) and then find yourself slightly too old to be re employed in an industry that you have worked for all your life, what then ?

 

It's no fun having no money coming into your account each month with school fees, food, water, electric and socialising plus that health insurance that used to be paid for you, I have many friends who have had to adjust their lifestyles accordingly after a lifetime of working off shore and being paid big bucks for it, just because you are okay today does not mean that you will be okay next week or next month, so a bit less of the I'm alright jack attitude might stand you in better stead on this forum, life is hard enough as it is, how would you cope if you got laid off tomorrow ? 

 

No doubt okay for maybe a year or 2 if you were savvy and put money away but that won't last forever, I've had friends sell their houses and cars just to stay afloat, don't be so smug mate, it could happen to you tomorrow.

[biggles45]

I imagine that if nothing changes with this issue, TI insist on the  embassy letter and embassies refuse to supply them, then quite a number of ex-pats who cant deposit the required monies into the bank may be forced to leave. 

 

Surely the first question to ask is.....Will the Thai authorities care?

 

They have 33+ million tourists flocking to the country, 11 million Chinese plus lots of Indians. I believe that they will be blinded by these numbers and the revenue they produce and OUR problems will not even register with them. 

[a977]

19 hours ago, Russell17au said:

A lot of people are saying that Thai Immigration have to change this or have to change that to suit us. Every country in the world has their own immigration laws and it is up to the different embassies to supply their citizens with the appropriate documents that are needed for each different country. Well, Thailand has its immigration laws and it is not up to Thailand to change their laws, it is up to our embassies to change their rules and supply us with the appropriate documents to suit the Thai Immigration laws. The 3 main embassies that are involved in this problem need to look at what system they can use that will provide the applicant with the documentation that Thai Immigration want

This is so true, when you fill out your affidavit and sign it you are saying that what you have written is true and correct if not you are liable, the only thing the Embassy is doing by signing is verifying that your signature is correct, it is not the Embassy that is liable it is their interpretation of the rule. when one goes to the embassy for the letter they should produce their yearly income tax assessment and statement from pension stating the exact amount they earn that way if the Embassy are so worried about signing off on something that maybe wrong they have the proof in front of them no ploblem. For me as an Australian all the Embassy has to do is look up my Centrelink number and they have all the info they need right there in front of them, but no that is too hard instead they say no more letters that's easy. 

[onera1961]

6 minutes ago, a977 said:

For me as an Australian all the Embassy has to do is look up my Centrelink number and they have all the info they need right there in front of them, but no that is too hard instead they say no more letters that's easy. 

Many people have lots of other incomes that may not be in Centerlink (not sure what is Centerlink, sorry). Need a solution that covers everybody not a single person whose income may be in Centerlink. The only generalized solution is monthly money deposited in a Thai bank

Edited November 11, 2018 by onera1961

[a977]

1 minute ago, onera1961 said:

Many people have lots of other incomes that may not be in Centerlink (not sure what is Centerlink, sorry). Need a solution that covers everybody not a single person whose income may be in Centerlink. 

Centrelink is the Government agency in charge of pensions for which we all have a number similar to social security, not sure what called in other countries.

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, a977 said:

Centrelink is the Government agency in charge of pensions for which we all have a number similar to social security, not sure what called in other countries.

But not everybody gets pension. In the US, it is 62 minimum age to start receiving SS. Have to think about a generalized solution that covers everybody. Monthly regular deposit in a Thai bank is simple and easy. Have to make sure TI accepts that without embassy letter. Then the problem is solved. 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

But not everybody gets pension. In the US, it is 62 minimum age to start receiving SS. Have to think about a generalized solution that covers everybody. Monthly regular deposit in a Thai bank is simple and easy. Have to make sure TI accepts that without embassy letter. Then the problem is solved. 

Agree - and I also hope a solution exists for folks not of retirement-age in our passport-countries.  This would still be a change in the rules, since "total-income" was the standard prior - not "net transferred to Thailand" income - so many could have to wire money back to cover taxes, etc.  As well, many don't receive their incomes monthly.  But, this outcome would be much better than losing the income option entirely - so perhaps the best we can hope for at this point.

[Krataiboy]

On 11/10/2018 at 4:57 PM, DJ54 said:

If you were here Oct. 1998 you may qualify for th 20,000 bht

as attached 

Arrived in Aug '98, so yes I do qualify and was aware of the fact. But thanks for the heads up.

[Lacessit]

Quite good ideas by the OP. Doubtful Thai authorities or embassies would take note.