A proactive approach to our current embassy letters.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

I get what you are saying, but, if these forums are indeed MONITORED I believe we have already shot our collective selves in the foot here. So many short sighted individuals "bragging" how they got around things, has already worked it's magic.  I personally do not see a "flawed" system being re-introduced. OF COURSE I COULD BE TOTALLY WRONG.

I agree with what you are saying but what the 3 Embassies and some offices of Thai Imm are also saying is  show me the money which to me is also flawed.

 

To get to where you want to be with your proposal- time is needed. If you could walk into  'Big Jok' and he said yes today- it could not be implemented for quite some time- especially the collection of monies- the methodology and the  medical tie in. Several different ministries involved as well as the cabinet/

 

To make your plan come into fruition- there has to be a bridge  which buys time and to me the current letter system is  about as good as you can get  for the bridge without  the disruption which is being played out daily on this forum.  

 

I find it hard to believe that  the 3 Embassies and  the Police Commissioner cannot come to an 'agreement'  to continue the status quo for at least one more year.  To do this- there needs to be someone of stature- Thai or  Foreigner who says -Let's talk. Possibly a former Thai Ambassador to either the US/UK/AUS.   There is an open forum at the US Consulate in Chiang Mai- 20 Nov- if you are an American you might consider attending or send in your proposal for review.  Time is not on our side.

[BB1958]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I agree with what you are saying but what the 3 Embassies and some offices of Thai Imm are also saying is  show me the money which to me is also flawed.

 

To get to where you want to be with your proposal- time is needed. If you could walk into  'Big Jok' and he said yes today- it could not be implemented for quite some time- especially the collection of monies- the methodology and the  medical tie in. Several different ministries involved as well as the cabinet/

 

To make your plan come into fruition- there has to be a bridge  which buys time and to me the current letter system is  about as good as you can get  for the bridge without  the disruption which is being played out daily on this forum.  

 

I find it hard to believe that  the 3 Embassies and  the Police Commissioner cannot come to an 'agreement'  to continue the status quo for at least one more year.  To do this- there needs to be someone of stature- Thai or  Foreigner who says -Let's talk. Possibly a former Thai Ambassador to either the US/UK/AUS.   There is an open forum at the US Consulate in Chiang Mai- 20 Nov- if you are an American you might consider attending or send in your proposal for review.  Time is not on our side.

I have to say it is hard to argue with your logic... Not sure how long Thaksin took to implement his scheme? Or indeed the other schemes. Regardless, whatever the outcome, Thai leaders need to place Thailand FIRST, that is their duty and then we do enter the equation.

 

I am not American, I am Australian, but, we're all human and it affects many of us. Surprisingly it will not affect me, but that's another story.  I have enough modest resources to live in my home country AND Thailand, for variable periods of time. I probably will continue this as I just really love Australia. I refer to Thailand as my second home - and a beautiful one it is.

[Krataiboy]

Irrespective of the pensions letter issue, I am sure many of us who are too old to get private medical insurance would welcome the opportunity somehow to "buy in" to the Thai public health system. 

 

I have been here 20 years and at 80 no insurers will touch me. Personally, I would be prepared to pay a lump sum "admission fee" to join the Thai NHS, plus an annual premium, providing these were not too exorbitant.

 

The alternative is to "go private" here if I get something really nasty, which would swiftly soak up the modest legacy I hope to leave to my Thai wife.

 

My only other option would be to fly back to my homeland (assuming I were physically capable) where, as a "non-resident" I would be charged 150 percent of the cost of any treatment - despite my already having paid 45 years' NI stamp, plus ongoing tax on my UK pensions.

 

Otherwise it's case of cross your fingers for a quick, inexpensive exit.

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Krataiboy

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

am not American, I am Australian, but, we're all human and it affects many of us. Surprisingly it will not affect me, but that's another story.  I have enough modest resources to live in my home country AND Thailand, for variable periods of time. I probably will continue this as I just really love Australia. I refer to Thailand as my second home - and a beautiful one it is.

I only mentioned nationality  as I know of the open forum in Chiang Mai at the US Consulate. IMO- there is nothing stopping you from sending in a proposal- the key is the 3  Embassies should be working together to work out a proposal that would benefit  their citizens and the Thai Government.  What is the rush to stop the letters?  I find it hard to believe that a Thai official would have demanded that a foreign Embassy do their letters a certain way.  Demand means confrontation and Thai people are non confrontational.

It is my contention that the Embassies were asked to verify/certify the income as 100% accurate, said impossible and then said no letter.  They could have  negotiated for a different outcome or at the very least a  reasonable transition.  Instead, we are left with a mishmash of  different Thai Imm offices asking for different proof and most expats confused and  upset.

 

I don't blame Thai Imm- they have changed nothing. However, I do blame the 3 Embassies for not understanding  the negotiation process; Thai sensibilities and the potential chaos that has been created. I still believe a year transition is needed and to that extent, I have sent my request to the US Embassy.

 

 

[worrab]

19 hours ago, BB1958 said:

A THAI going to Europe is compelled to purchase a minimum insurance cover of B1,110,000 for B750 per month.

My G/F never had to get this when she came over to stay with me for 6 months. I was the one sponsoring her at the time and would have had to pay for any treatment if required.

 

Even though what you are saying about having to pay THB2500 a month sounds good in reality is it? Would the health insurance be the same as UK NHS, in other words you get treatment for ALL medical problems as in the Thai 30 baht scheme or would the health insurance not cover pre-exisitng conditions such as I have? Just asking as you know how you think you are getting a good scheme only for the Thai authorities to change bits and pieces. 

 

 Insurance for me would be astronomical and combined with age impossible and therefore I am fortunate that I do have the necessary funds if needed. 

[BB1958]

13 minutes ago, worrab said:

My G/F never had to get this when she came over to stay with me for 6 months. I was the one sponsoring her at the time and would have had to pay for any treatment if required.

 

Even though what you are saying about having to pay THB2500 a month sounds good in reality is it? Would the health insurance be the same as UK NHS, in other words you get treatment for ALL medical problems as in the Thai 30 baht scheme or would the health insurance not cover pre-exisitng conditions such as I have? Just asking as you know how you think you are getting a good scheme only for the Thai authorities to change bits and pieces. 

 

 Insurance for me would be astronomical and combined with age impossible and therefore I am fortunate that I do have the necessary funds if needed. 

The UK never signed up to the schengen agreement.

The proposal is that it is the same as Thai people get with their B30 scheme.

Edited November 10, 2018 by BB1958

[HHTel]

2 hours ago, BB1958 said:

The figures (In your opinion) are way out. The figures are in fact NOT way out I was careful to avoid demographics - except as stated.

 

{SNIP}The Department of Employment reported that 18,812 Chinese obtained work permits last year, almost double the figure of 9,618 Chinese in 2011.

 

The Immigration Department puts the total number of Chinese nationals residing in Thailand last year at 91,272, however, academic studies have put the figure as high as 350,000-400,000 in the past decade. 

As the expatriate Chinese community grows, real estate investment is also on the rise as Chinese look for second homes in Thailand. The Suttangrak Group is developing housing projects worth five billion baht to sell as time-shares to Chinese buyers. Thailand as a base for business in Southeast Asia is becoming more common. Also, Thailand as a place to stay and work as a second home is also more common". {END} DUE TO FORUM RULES I CANNOT QUOTE MY SOURCE.

 

There are forum members who have commented on the rise in numbers of Chinese in recent times.

 

Thank you for your post..

 

Ahem.  My quote came from the same article as the one you are quoting and if you read the whole, you will find that the Chinese are not here to retire but to invest, work, study etc.

 

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, BB1958 said:

such as adopting the "Schengen" system and applying this to ALL tourists. It WILL add an insurance surchage to a visa/visa exempt.. of about $22.00 US dollars.

I (US passport) don't remember giving a surcharge while entering Schengen area. Nor my friend (with a Singapore passport). Is it added to airfare? I just came back from Switzerland and Portugal and don't see any insurance surcharge in the ticket price also. 

[BB1958]

1 minute ago, HHTel said:

Ahem.  My quote came from the same article as the one you are quoting and if you read the whole, you will find that the Chinese are not here to retire but to invest, work, study etc.

 

You do not know how much I did or did not read... But I will leave others to ascertain the value and relevance of this statements WITHIN THE ARTICLE

 

{SNIP}As the expatriate Chinese community grows, real estate investment is also on the rise as Chinese look for second homes in Thailand.{END}

 

I will not engage in semantics with you it is both counter productive and pointless..

Thank you for your post..

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, BB1958 said:

{SNIP}As the expatriate Chinese community grows, real estate investment is also on the rise as Chinese look for second homes in Thailand.{END}

Chinese tour buses are now making stops in Condo sales offices at Jomiten. I rented in a brand new condo and most the units in the complex are sold to Chinese or Russians. The one I am renting is a one bed room condo from a Chinese lady who lives in China. It is good for renters though. As Thai developers build more and more condos and bought by Chinese who has no interest of staying here, they will rent it out and there will be abundance supply of condos for rental. 

[BB1958]

11 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I (US passport) don't remember giving a surcharge while entering Schengen area. Nor my friend (with a Singapore passport). Is it added to airfare? I just came back from Switzerland and Portugal and don't see any insurance surcharge in the ticket price also. 

Extract from “Regulation (EC) No 810/2009 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 13 July 2009”, which entered into force on April 5 of 2010:

“… Applicants for a uniform visa for one or two entries shall prove that they are in possession of adequate and valid travel medical insurance to cover any expenses which might arise in connection with repatriation for medical reasons, urgent medical attention and/or emergency hospital treatment or death, during their stay(s) on the territory of the Member States.
The insurance shall be valid throughout the territory of the Schengen Arearea Member States and cover the entire period of the person’s intended stay or transit. The minimum coverage shall be EUR 30,000” (…)

My understanding is that A US Person and a Singapore person is exempt from this requirement - A THAI is not exempt.

Edited November 10, 2018 by BB1958

[HHTel]

4 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Chinese tour buses are now making stops in Condo sales offices at Jomiten. I rented in a brand new condo and most the units in the complex are sold to Chinese or Russians. The one I am renting is a one bed room condo from a Chinese lady who lives in China. It is good for renters though. As Thai developers build more and more condos and bought by Chinese who has no interest of staying here, they will rent it out and there will be abundance supply of condos for rental. 

Exactly.  The Chinese are about making money and opportunity, not to settle.

[BB1958]

4 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Chinese tour buses are now making stops in Condo sales offices at Jomiten. I rented in a brand new condo and most the units in the complex are sold to Chinese or Russians. The one I am renting is a one bed room condo from a Chinese lady who lives in China. It is good for renters though. As Thai developers build more and more condos and bought by Chinese who has no interest of staying here, they will rent it out and there will be abundance supply of condos for rental. 

You OF COURSE are clearly an EXPERT, I will defer to your expertise and admit I cannot compete with your massive intellectual prowess..

Enjoy your day... 

[thailand49]

4 hours ago, BB1958 said:

Hi Tracy B, Thank you for reading and replying, It already works in Europe (Of course NOT exactly) - But this board (sadly) is extremely negative. The negative responders are soooooo predictable (I had already guessed some who have already posted) and there are many more to come - if the thread survives that long.

 

Some will suggest it's to simplistic (But, will not offer alternatives, some will deliberately include an "irrelevancy" to derail the topic... It is so sad that few things can be debated here, without abuse and (unwarranted) derogatory remarks. Or unnecessary "Thai Bashing"

 

However, I am not a "Thai basher" one of my closest Thai friends recently passed aged 61. A couple of weeks before, we visited him and had dinner - funny thing, he gave me a "man Hug" - rare for him and exceedingly rare for me... He said at dinner that he will visit his sister the following week... which he did. He died there and I did not see him again... Their family and mine have friendships spanning 40 years, I held HIS, mum's hand whilst she passed, some 10 years ago - many things bonded us over the years... Heartbreaking.

 

I do think Pol Maj-General Surachat Hakpal (big Joke) has a significant intellect and displays good common sense, commitment, perseverance  - I would not be surprised, once his acting status becomes the real deal and he becomes the gazetted Immigration Police chief, that he radically changes the immigration landscape. I also believe that he listens, AND he is aware of this forum. Plus (again sadly) all the insulting "drivel" aimed at Thai people.

I wonder how is expressing an opinion comes out as "drivel or bashing"  yes there are lots of negatives comments regarding Thais but last time I look we are talking about Thailand. Provide another subject outside I'm sure you will find negatives too. Just because of an opinion isn't spoken or written the way you want doesn't mean it is drivel or bashing. The reality the majority are negative isn't because people woke up one morning and said to themselves let's get the Thais?

Personally, I wish Big Jokes or whoever is in charge make themselves available to the Expat community I would love to speak out as to what my opinion is regarding any subject he wants to discuss about his country not because I hate Thailand or it's people but provide solutions instead of being part of the problem. I'm here because I want to help and at times criticism is painful to hear but without a bit of pain there isn't any gain.

Edited November 10, 2018 by thailand49

[onera1961]

5 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

My understanding is that A US Person and a Singapore person is exempt from this requirement - A THAI is not exempt.

Ok, from the Regulation, it seems insurance is required only when you apply for a visa. People form the USA or Singapore, or japan, or Korea, or a host of other countries don't need a visa to enter Schengen area and they don't have to buy  any insurance. 

[BB1958]

4 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

I wonder how is expressing an opinion comes out as "drivel or bashing"  yes there are lots of negatives comments regarding Thais but last time I look we are talking about Thailand. Provide another subject outside I'm sure you will find negatives too. Just because of an opinion isn't spoken or written the way you want doesn't mean it is drivel or bashing. The reality the majority are negative isn't because people woke up one morning and said to themselves let's get the Thais?

Personally, I wish Big Jokes or whoever is in charge make themselves available to the Expat community I would love to speak out as to what my opinion is regarding any subject he wants to discuss about his country not because I hate Thailand or it's people but provide solutions instead of being part of the problem. I'm here because I want to help and at times criticism is painful to hear but without a bit of pain there isn't any gain.

I find your post utterly confusing and disjointed, but then that's just me...

 

Thank you for your contribution...

[BB1958]

3 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Ok, from the Regulation, it seems insurance is required only when you apply for a visa. People form the USA or Singapore, or japan, or Korea, or a host of other countries don't need a visa to enter Schengen area and they don't have to buy  any insurance. 

 

3 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

 

SOURCE https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/who-needs-schengen-visa/ - you are absolutely correct.

Edited November 10, 2018 by BB1958
Double quote??

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Olmate said:

16 hours ago, elviajero said:

There is a lot about the visa system that needs reform, but your idea is just nuts, and far to simplistic.

 

Why would you suggest expats currently paying 1,900 per year pay 30,000!?

 

There is no problem to fix for most expats/visitors.

So all the posters in these various threads, have no problem?

“MOST”

[HHTel]

19 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

I will not engage in semantics with you it is both counter productive and pointless..

Fair enough.  Although in the context of this and other related threads, I would hardly call it 'counter productive and pointless'.  The subject needs some honing in order to produce a viable option.  Putting forward the idea of 'billions of baht' into the Thai economy is of no interest to the Thai authorities as it only accounts for small change in the larger picture. It's certainly not the way to negotiate a better deal with the authorities.

[onera1961]

I am only advocating for Thai embassy to accept 65K/month transfer to a bank account in Thailand without embassy letter. This is simple and solves all the problems. Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

Edited November 10, 2018 by onera1961

[BB1958]

1 minute ago, onera1961 said:

I am only advocating for Thai embassy to accept 65K/month transfer to a bank account in Thailand without embassy letter. This is simple and solves all the problems. 

For you!!!

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, BB1958 said:

For you!!!

I am on an O-A visa and I will continue to do so in foreseeable future. Getting an O-A visa is simpler for me and two years of no headache. For the first 9-month of my stay in Thailand this year on an O-A visa, I avoided doing 90-day report also by leaving the country. But I am not sure how long I can continue this. So, I rented a condo and made sure the the agent do a TM30. I simply like to avoid dealing with TI. 

[thailand49]

Before the subject gets closed like the others because people start to get untracked.

First, the 3 Embassy didn't quickly decide to stop after the subject was verification came up it was days if not a week after.  The 3 Embassy took a wait and see approach with no indication so the rumors ran and ran to the point the first Embassy was the U.S. who responded the end of the letter. They refer citizens to the Thai Immigration website which didn't provide much since there was nothing new by saying nothing the rumor continued and continues!

To me, this is another case of diplomacy or Government just can't run anything and that includes the ability to just ask a questions and communicate! To me it is really that simple.

This thread takes us from the income to basically medical? So I ask the ops is the reason the affidavit not being given is because Expats are stiffing the government throughout Thailand for medical bills unpaid? I've read a number of stories about Tourist ( Gofund stories ) so are Expats now being confused with Tourist?

I have been buying medical insurance here in Thailand if it is a problem then I can understand the government concern but I seriously haven't heard any evidence of it?

What I simply ask is whatever rule the Thai Immigration want to make it clear throughout Thailand. The bashing or whatever people want to call it wasn't just made up. Just look at the responses are there really so many people making up one office want or doesn't want something. This view has been going on since I arrived 13 years ago. Are the Expats in CM or where ever lying about this too? Each year I do my renewed I xerox all the pages on my passport but provide what the previous year required by the agent I keep the rest handy if I miss something because I hate running outside to get it very unnerving to me, in 13 years of applying it has only been one year where I wasn't ask for something new.

If the problem is medical I would gladly pay as suggested 30,000 baht a year for my extension and some decent form of medical treatment but then the government would open a whole can of worms dealing with the hospital that charges us Expat more because of our origin or color. I would gladly as an Expat partake they be doing me a favor since I'm being discriminated in so many ways including my age for being refused insurance option due to my retirement age. 

My suggestion if verification is an issue then I would suggest the Thai immigration do it themselves. I would gladly pay the 1700 on top of the extension fee to Thai Immigration but I seriously doubt there is anyone there who can comprehend the documents and make the verification in all the languages so if they do want the job they can knock themselves out and if they take all your paperwork for your extension and ask you to pick up your passport tomorrow I guarantee if you park behind their building you will see the documents toss out with the trash and the Immigrations can now obtain their yearly funding without asking the goverment for it. This way it stays and helps the Thai economy no point the Embassy getting it since they can't even provide information.  ????

Edited November 10, 2018 by thailand49

[Golden Triangle]

BB1958, I like your idea, it would certainly make life a lot easier for many people, I have sufficient resources in my home country and could easily open another bank account and just leave the required 800,000 Baht in the bank all year round just to satisfy immigration, but as I have stated elsewhere on this other threads on this issue the exchange rate from the UK to here is punitive at the moment and likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future, due mainly to the farce that is Brexit, when I first moved here the required 800k Baht was appx £15- £16k that has rocketed to nearly £20k now and likely to get worse. 

 

I have 2 pensions paid here which have also lost value, and whilst I have for the last few years always renewed my extension with the cash in the bank I will now be looking at other avenues or unfortunately other countries sadly. 

[thailand49]

43 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

I find your post utterly confusing and disjointed, but then that's just me...

 

Thank you for your contribution...

That is a response normally given when people have no argument for their position so thank you for making your contribution or drivel response. You might also get your post corrected and no matter how much you want to disguise things with all your quotes of stats.  There isn't a relationship why the affidavit isn't being issued and your suggestion of medical!

Edited November 10, 2018 by thailand49

[mejomini]

Doing away with the embassy letter, and replacing it with a bank verification letter for the monthly income deposits like for the 400/800 K THB in the bank would be the logical solution. A compulsory proof of insurance a la Schengen (or payment into the Baht plan) along with the income verification, a visa fee, and voila, problem solved.  Why make things so complicated?

[FritsSikkink]

21 hours ago, BB1958 said:

Thank you for taking it seriously - Thailand has been innovative - their "tourist Police" are even better than Spain's (Who started a tourist Police system, I seem to recall) No reason why they cannot capitalise on this too..

Why should I pay 15 times more then now? Because you can't get your act together?

[OJAS]

I personally share others’ doubts as to whether the OP’s proposals are ever likely to see the light of day in practice.

 

However, the figures which he has revealed are IMHO interesting in that 4.9% of foreign residents in 2010 consisted of Americans and Brits, Although Australians are not listed separately, it might be reasonable to infer, on the basis of the Singaporean and Indonesian percentages, that they would have made up 0.1% of the total at most.

 

So, hypothetically speaking, assuming that these percentages were also representative of those who were on non-immigrant retirement or marriage extensions in 2010, it would appear that, at most, 5% would potentially have been affected by the Australian, American and British embassies’ decisions to withdraw their income confirmation services had these been taken in 2010.

 

However, the actual proportion of Americans, Aussies and Brits who would have actually been affected by such embassy decisions in 2010 would, of course, have been rather less as many of them would have been proving finances for their non-immigrant retirement or marriage extensions on the basis of 800k or 400k in the bank.

 

On the assumption that there has been no disproportionate increase in the number of American, Australian and British non-immigrants seeking retirement or marriage extensions since 2010, therefore, it strikes me as unlikely that the IB would now be prepared to sanction any alternative method of proving 65k or 40k monthly income based on transfers into Thai bank accounts purely for the benefit of just a small fraction of total non-immigrants on retirement or marriage extensions as things stand.

 

 

[onera1961]

46 minutes ago, mejomini said:

A compulsory proof of insurance a la Schengen

I like the insurance idea but it is not new. All O-X visa holders must buy a health insurance and it is around 60K/annum. I am thinking about buying it. It will just add another 5K/month to my expenses. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by onera1961

[evadgib]

Any 'Insurance' idea wont work until cost of treatment is based on nature of injury rather than ethnicity of patient.

I'd like to see PR becoming the norm for anyone that has been here trouble-free for 3 years or longer & with a reset button to keep the serial drink drivers in check.

HTH