Bad craftsmanship - what would you do?

[NorthernRyland]

20 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But it seems the management and the committee don't care.

They don't care for sure. Thais view these matters as so petty and insignificant that they're often confused as to why anyone would ever bring it up.

 

To put it in perspective it would be like if you hired someone to clean the floor of a NBA basketball court and when they were finished you called them up and told them to come back because you found a single hair on the floor. Any sane person would think you lost your mind but that's how you sound to a Thai when you bring up these things.

 

That's what were up against here.

[Lucky mike]

Pride in workmanship is often tossed in the same barrel as maintenance, duty of care, road manners, best mouth shut and acceptance of mediocrity...

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, Lucky mike said:

Pride in workmanship is often tossed in the same barrel as maintenance, duty of care, road manners, best mouth shut and acceptance of mediocrity...

I found the tradesmen in the US took pride in their work because it was a core part of their identity. Doing poor wok was embarrassing and you would get ridiculed by your co-workers.

 

Contrast that with Thai men, who are typically more than happy to be known as the guy who does shit work or doesn't care about his job. 

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Contrast that with Thai men, who are typically more than happy to be known as the guy who does shit work or doesn't care about his job.

Is that the truth?

It seems one big problem is that nobody trains Thai technicians to work according to a good standard.

And good technicians don't want to share their knowledge because they are afraid other will get their work.

 

I remember the Thai owner of a small motorcycle repair shop many years ago. He did a good job with my and other people's bikes.

At some stage I bought a book written by a European professional motorcycle tuner and I showed the book to the Thai. He said the book is fantastic and he made a copy for himself. He also told me Thais would never publish such a book or tell anybody else all these techniques and tricks. They would keep the knowledge for themselves.

 

I guess this is part of the problem in Thailand.

[mike324]

best bet it to talk to one of the co owner who is on the board, they have the power to convince the office managers or even other co owners on the board to get it fixed properly.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, genericptr said:

Thais view these matters as so petty and insignificant that they're often confused as to why anyone would ever bring it up.

That's why most Thais should not be involved in management or committees. By nature many are inclined to bodge and cut corners.

[manchega]

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

They think that we are a serious pest. They know that we are much less likely to be fobbed off. If we get involved they know their game will be up.

 

Juristic managers and juristic persons are known to skim funds. It's an endemic problem. Thais just accept it as the way it is. We have only one token farang on the committee, really old guy who only spends a few months of the year here, doesn't speak Thai and has broken English. As much use as a fart in a lift.

I can guarantee that the sheer incompetance will see you leaving not from lack of involvement but by not understanding the system,

someone somewhere is actually in control of things, someone with no life except for planning what ever it is to do

you will find you have zero traction, but everyone will let you speak, but it will be futile, even if you were dominating a meeting 

first you need to understand the system

then try to take a number 9 nail and screw it into your head with a pair of pliers and you will actually be getting towards understanding how things get done

[manchega]

8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

There is something you can do: sack the manageress, or point out to her that if she doesnt stop stealing (because it is theft) she will be fired. Then start monitoring and checking all accounts and quotes and bills.

It costs money to hire a legal team and press these charges, you as an individual have no power to fire someone stealing or not, it requries the whole committee, yes you can check accounts between your work, family and rest of life

or realise the futility

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is that the truth?

It seems one big problem is that nobody trains Thai technicians to work according to a good standard.

I could never begin to understand what the Thai men go through since I wasn't raised here but this is my observation.

 

After seeing such a staggering volume of poor work here I can only assume they just don't care. However, I've never actually asked a Thai face to face why their work is so bad and if they care, they just don't know how to do better or they don't even know their work is crap.

 

Maybe we need a nation wide survey to get to the bottom of it.

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, manchega said:

It costs money to hire a legal team and press these charges, you as an individual have no power to fire someone stealing or not, it requries the whole committee, yes you can check accounts between your work, family and rest of life

or realise the futility

There is probably no need for a "legal team" to do this as the threat would normally be enough. If a lawyer (one would be enough) is needed then it will be paid for out of common funds. After all, the co-owners will all benefit from the removal of someone who is losing or stealing their money.

To fire staff requires only a majority decision of the committee, or indeed a majority decision of co-owners at a GM. A unanimous decision is NOT needed.

 

The point is that if everyone says "waste of time", as you do, then indeed nothing will ever change. However if even only a few people chose to say "let's stop this" then it will stop.

[KittenKong]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems one big problem is that nobody trains Thai technicians to work according to a good standard.

And good technicians don't want to share their knowledge because they are afraid other will get their work.

I dont think that this is it. I have had air-con technicians do a good job one day and then a few months later the same technicians do an awful job.

Many Thais are simply erratic.

[kannot]

On 11/12/2018 at 12:17 PM, manchega said:

fuk in shrines

???? spot  on

[kannot]

On 11/12/2018 at 7:44 PM, genericptr said:

I could never begin to understand what the Thai men go through since I wasn't raised here but this is my observation.

 

After seeing such a staggering volume of poor work here I can only assume they just don't care. However, I've never actually asked a Thai face to face why their work is so bad and if they care, they just don't know how to do better or they don't even know their work is crap.

 

Maybe we need a nation wide survey to get to the bottom of it.

I told one once his work was crap years ago, he left in a huff shouting my work is good, it was total crap, heres  how he left a ceiling, never used any Thais for anything since, total waste of time and do more damage than good, finished  all the ceilings myself removing his " beautifully  cut boards"

Taped and  filled them then painted em 4  times (last photo in progress)

[simoh1490]

A neighbour is building a dozen houses nearby and I stopped to look at them, the radiant barrier was installed incorrectly in the first house and would only serve to increase heat rather than reduce it. Hoping to head off a problem for the chap before the other houses were roofed I printed some pictures off the web showing how to install radiant barrier correctly and I gave them to him and talked him through the problem and he said thank you - three months later I returned from the UK and checked on the rest of the houses, all had been fitted with radiant barrier incorrectly, all exactly the same as the first house I had seen. Hey, not my houses and I won't have to live in them, now it's your problem, good luck with that.

[kannot]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

A neighbour is building a dozen houses nearby and I stopped to look at them, the radiant barrier was installed incorrectly in the first house and would only serve to increase heat rather than reduce it. Hoping to head off a problem for the chap before the other houses were roofed I printed some pictures off the web showing how to install radiant barrier correctly and I gave them to him and talked him through the problem and he said thank you - three months later I returned from the UK and checked on the rest of the houses, all had been fitted with radiant barrier incorrectly, all exactly the same as the first house I had seen. Hey, not my houses and I won't have to live in them, now it's your problem, good luck with that.

Sounds typical, gawd  knows what lurks  under  all the concrete and  render in most houses.

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, kannot said:

I told one once his work was crap years ago, he left in a huff shouting my work is good, it was total crap, heres  how he left a ceiling, never used any Thais for anything since, total waste of time and do more damage than good, finished  all the ceilings myself removing his " beautifully  cut boards"

Taped and  filled them then painted em 4  times (last photo in progress)

Thais are known to be the kings of silicone, they use it to correct any kind of bad work

[watcharacters]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:14 AM, KittenKong said:

There is something you can do: sack the manageress, or point out to her that if she doesnt stop stealing (because it is theft) she will be fired. Then start monitoring and checking all accounts and quotes and bills.

 

Can he do that as a farang without  risk of life or limb?

 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

Can he do that as a farang without  risk of life or limb?

Staff have been sacked in my building without any co-owners being the worse for it.