Money Transfer Outbound

[chiang mai]

There's two parts to this thread, the first is information for those who are not aware and the second part seeks feedback and suggestions.

When a foreigner buys real estate in Thailand they are required to fund the purchase with money brought in from overseas. The foreign currency arrives, is converted into Baht, a certificate is issued and the purchase is completed. All well and good so far and a route many of us have been down.

But then the foreigner decides to sell and as in my case, convert the funds back into a native currency and transfer the money back overseas. In order to do this the foreigner has to produce a receipt from the Land Office showing that tax has been paid on the sale of the real estate, not just on the amount declared to the Land Office but on the amount of money deposited that resulted from the sale - more often than not the amount quoted to the Land Office is substantially less than the actual sale price and where individuals chose to leave the money in Thailand (as in the case of native Thai's) there is unlikely to be a problem. But where the money is to be remitted overseas the Thai banks act as an auditor for the BOT to ensure that the entire sale amount was taxed. If you have not paid tax on the full amount you are restricted in the amount you can transfer out and this equals the taxed amount. And before anyone starts to scream at me, the certificate you recieved when you brought the money in to the country is only a part of the picture when taking the money out.

As for part two of this thread, my lawyer "negotiated" on my behalf a lower sales price at the Land Office although I did not ask him to do so. He felt pleased however because he felt that he had saved me tax at the Land Office and had complied with accepted practice in my neck of the woods. The banks however will not now touch a majority of the sale proceeds for transfer purposes because they are untaxed. So the question is, how do you repatriate several million Baht under these circumstances? BTW - The Land Office will not allow a correction to the deal that has been done.

[Gaudente]

So the question is, how do you repatriate several million Baht under these circumstances? BTW - The Land Office will not allow a correction to the deal that has been done.

You can't. Indeed it is already a pain in the ass to simply take out the money you wired in before, as I have discovered first hand experience in these days.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1102006

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1130507

[jakesideas]

I transfered money out of Thai in 2 bank checks that I cashed when I got back to my home country. There is a limit on the amount on each check so I had to make 2. They were denominated in my home currency. Seemed to work fine.

But next time I want to get the foreign exchange rate because it is so good. I have a question for you now... do they ask you at the Thai bank for SWIFT transfer if you would like to transfer in Baht or the other currency? I mean do they give you a choice so you can get the out of country exchange rate?

[chiang mai]

I transfered money out of Thai in 2 bank checks that I cashed when I got back to my home country. There is a limit on the amount on each check so I had to make 2. They were denominated in my home currency. Seemed to work fine.

But next time I want to get the foreign exchange rate because it is so good. I have a question for you now... do they ask you at the Thai bank for SWIFT transfer if you would like to transfer in Baht or the other currency? I mean do they give you a choice so you can get the out of country exchange rate?

I think you have a choice although I cannot be certain. In my case I wanted to convert to Sterling here in Thailand and then transfer out. Just out of curiosity, what was the limit of each cheque that you managed to clear offshore?

Edited February 17, 2007 by chiang mai

[Gaudente]

I transfered money out of Thai in 2 bank checks that I cashed when I got back to my home country. There is a limit on the amount on each check so I had to make 2. They were denominated in my home currency. Seemed to work fine.

But next time I want to get the foreign exchange rate because it is so good. I have a question for you now... do they ask you at the Thai bank for SWIFT transfer if you would like to transfer in Baht or the other currency? I mean do they give you a choice so you can get the out of country exchange rate?

My bank (Bangkok Bank Pattaya 2nd road branch) told me you cannot swift baht out of country. You MUST change it in another currency before swifting it, therefore getting the in-shore exchange rate of 35.80 to the U.S.$.

If I have well understood, you cannot exit the country with more of 50,000 baht in cash , so there is no way you can get the off-shore rate (now 33.20 to the U.S.$).

I have read you can bring with you 500,000 baht if you go to Vietnam. But I wonder if , once there, you can buy U.S.$ and then swift them out, or just vietnamese dong that must stay inside Vietnam forever....

Even if you take the risk of smuggling large amount of baht in cash, remember the exchange rate for banknotes is much worse then the official off-shore rate, so I wonder if that could be a way too.

Two days ago I was in Singapore and asked my bank if they manage a THB account, they answered THB is not a convertible currency in Singapore and therefore could not accept a THB swift. The exchange booths operating in Singapore apply the same exchange rate going in Thailand. (with US$=1.54S$ 1000baht=43S$ thats US$=35.80 THB again)

[jakesideas]

That is very interesting and informative info Gaudente- thanks. I will guess I am resigned to the in-country rate. Chiang Mai- It was BKK Bank and the limit was about US 8K per check. This was at a small branch. I don't know if there was a limit to the number of checks. Another suggestion is to go to a few different banks and check the policy- even different branches of the same bank. Have you been to the main branch of your bank? I wonder what the rate is on the street- at the change money places.

[Gaudente]

That is very interesting and informative info Gaudente- thanks. I will guess I am resigned to the in-country rate. Chiang Mai- It was BKK Bank and the limit was about US 8K per check. This was at a small branch. I don't know if there was a limit to the number of checks. Another suggestion is to go to a few different banks and check the policy- even different branches of the same bank. Have you been to the main branch of your bank? I wonder what the rate is on the street- at the change money places.

As the foreign remittence lady of Pattaya branch was continously speaking at the phone / sending documents by fax with the main branch in Bangkok, I guess she was applying the same rules I would be given in that branch.

If I still had a business visa enabling me to open a bank account with another bank I could try to investigate other banks here in Pattaya, but being now on tourist visa that would be useless. The rate on the street is always 35.80 (a little worse for banknotes), here in Pattaya the exchange booths are all bank owned. And anyway, as long as the bank gives you 35.50sell/36.00buy$ rates how could any private exchange booth stay outside that range ?

[chiang mai]

I had read somewhere that the maximum that anyone can take out of Thailand is USD 20,000 per trip. Can anyone confirm that?

[topfield]

Sorry that this posting offers no solutions..only questions that could lead to a solution

You state that your bank branch will not permit you to tt baht out of Thailand.

Well I would ask them to show you in their authority for this in chapter and verse. The BOT regs are published in a manual each head office should hold. Alternatively ring the BOT yourself and ask as they do have a public equiry number.

Why do I have reason to believe your branch's info is untrue ?

Well in May '97 at the height of the baht crisis and with draconian rules in place I was permitted to tt baht out of Thailand. To do this all I had to prove was that foreign funds had come in . I was also permitted to send out interest payments I had received on showing proof.

Secondly I wouyld call Bangkok Bank in Singapore . I know several expats who hold baht a/c there. If you are permitted to open a convertible baht a/c there you will be half way to getting the offshore rate which will give you a premium of around ten percent ( 35.75 v 33.25 to the dollar) so surely worth the trouble.

[chiang mai]

Sorry that this posting offers no solutions..only questions that could lead to a solution

You state that your bank branch will not permit you to tt baht out of Thailand.

Well I would ask them to show you in their authority for this in chapter and verse. The BOT regs are published in a manual each head office should hold. Alternatively ring the BOT yourself and ask as they do have a public equiry number.

Why do I have reason to believe your branch's info is untrue ?

Well in May '97 at the height of the baht crisis and with draconian rules in place I was permitted to tt baht out of Thailand. To do this all I had to prove was that foreign funds had come in . I was also permitted to send out interest payments I had received on showing proof.

Secondly I wouyld call Bangkok Bank in Singapore . I know several expats who hold baht a/c there. If you are permitted to open a convertible baht a/c there you will be half way to getting the offshore rate which will give you a premium of around ten percent ( 35.75 v 33.25 to the dollar) so surely worth the trouble.

Thanks for the feedback Topfield. I do have a multi currency account with HSBC in Hong Kong and this allows me to hold Baht there if I wish. In this particular case however I am not looking to make a profit on the offshore vs onshore rate, just to repatriate funds into Sterling to take advantage of the higher rates of return on Sterling. As far as the banks authority to do what they have done: I haven't really questioned it because I have had the same response from both HSBC and Bangkok Bank - it appears they act as an auditor or agent for BOT in this respect. I do however intend to chat with the BOT helpline to see where that takes me and in case anyone ever needs the number it is 02 2835555.

cheers

[tingtong]

well, i dont know when you last had 10000$ in hand; it is anything but slim

[topfield]

well, i dont know when you last had 10000$ in hand; it is anything but slim

Try Singapore cash. They have in circulation ten thousand dollar notes !! Yes each note worth over three thousand pounds or 6500 US !!

Not talking about the US 10,000 dollar bills with Chase on them. These are collectors items and sell for $70,000 No I'm referring the the Singapore notes which are available at all bank branches in the City state.

PS There is also a Thai Baht 100,000 note. The BOT quite keen to offer these and phoned me three times a year or two back!!

[chiang mai]

well, i dont know when you last had 10000$ in hand; it is anything but slim

Try Singapore cash. They have in circulation ten thousand dollar notes !! Yes each note worth over three thousand pounds or 6500 US !!

Not talking about the US 10,000 dollar bills with Chase on them. These are collectors items and sell for $70,000 No I'm referring the the Singapore notes which are available at all bank branches in the City state.

PS There is also a Thai Baht 100,000 note. The BOT quite keen to offer these and phoned me three times a year or two back!!

Thanks for the thought. Whilst I would guess it is unlikely that Super Rich carries the Sing 10k note using Sing money this might work - because they are high denomination bills and it would be easy to convert direct to Sterling in Singapore and transfer to my HSBC account in HK using HSBC Sing. Plus, a day trip to Sing for this purpose would be cost effective and not wear out the profit margin. I've never been to Super Rich but understand from previous posts that it is accross from World Trade. Can anyone tell me which side of World Trade that is - Sukhumvit/Chidlom, Amari or the long road up the side?

[topfield]

well, i dont know when you last had 10000$ in hand; it is anything but slim

Try Singapore cash. They have in circulation ten thousand dollar notes !! Yes each note worth over three thousand pounds or 6500 US !!

Not talking about the US 10,000 dollar bills with Chase on them. These are collectors items and sell for $70,000 No I'm referring the the Singapore notes which are available at all bank branches in the City state.

PS There is also a Thai Baht 100,000 note. The BOT quite keen to offer these and phoned me three times a year or two back!!

Thanks for the thought. Whilst I would guess it is unlikely that Super Rich carries the Sing 10k note using Sing money this might work - because they are high denomination bills and it would be easy to convert direct to Sterling in Singapore and transfer to my HSBC account in HK using HSBC Sing. Plus, a day trip to Sing for this purpose would be cost effective and not wear out the profit margin. I've never been to Super Rich but understand from previous posts that it is accross from World Trade. Can anyone tell me which side of World Trade that is - Sukhumvit/Chidlom, Amari or the long road up the side?

They are in the street alongside to Big C. They might have the 10k note , you can call them to reserve some as these notes are used extensively in Asia for gold trading. They are almost as good as a travellers cheque as people write down the serial numbers so if stolen easy to catch the thief. Unfortunalely there are no 5k Sing $ notes so 1k Sing is the nearest denomination below.

Why ? Well this 10k note was introduced during the early part of the last century to match the Bank of England one thousand pound notes and for some reason they have seen no need for a Sing$5k note. Therefore if not enough Sing 10K's available the next largest is the very popular and much used 500 Euro bill worth around the same as the 1K Sing.or the ever popular 1K Swiss franc note.

Oh yes, the Baht 100,000 note ..it really does exist but I would not recommend it as its too dam-n expensive .

[Gaudente]

Sorry that this posting offers no solutions..only questions that could lead to a solution

You state that your bank branch will not permit you to tt baht out of Thailand.

Well I would ask them to show you in their authority for this in chapter and verse.

Do we live in the same Thailand ? is another Thailand out there in a parallel universe ? Because in the Thailand I live in if I asked them something like that they would simply pretend not to understand me (or, more probably they actually would not understand me) they would send me to the branch director that would answer he must ask to his superior, so "can you please come back tomorrow?"....and the day after they all would pretend nothing happened the day before and restart the bullshit until I die of old age.

So you are suggesting me I should hire an attorney and make him answer that question for me ? I think the result would be speaking with another person pretending not to understand, and this time I should also pay for that !

[jakesideas]

Hey I've got another idea for transferring money out of Thailand that I wonder if any of you have tried. How about money in a Thai person's account like Thai wife or gf's for example. Can a person of Thai nationality transfer money out without a certificate stating where the money is coming from? And can they transfer money out in baht or foreign currency?

[chiang mai]

Hey I've got another idea for transferring money out of Thailand that I wonder if any of you have tried. How about money in a Thai person's account like Thai wife or gf's for example. Can a person of Thai nationality transfer money out without a certificate stating where the money is coming from? And can they transfer money out in baht or foreign currency?

Yes, Thai's can transfer up to 500,000 USD without any reference to BOT and there is indeed a cottage industry of firms that specialize in doing just that. But there are some obvious inherent risks to doing things that way.

[Gaudente]

Hey I've got another idea for transferring money out of Thailand that I wonder if any of you have tried. How about money in a Thai person's account like Thai wife or gf's for example.

Indeed that way you would be relieved of all problems about your money ....

[sabajja]

Hey I've got another idea for transferring money out of Thailand that I wonder if any of you have tried. How about money in a Thai person's account like Thai wife or gf's for example. Can a person of Thai nationality transfer money out without a certificate stating where the money is coming from? And can they transfer money out in baht or foreign currency?

Yes, Thai's can transfer up to 500,000 USD without any reference to BOT and there is indeed a cottage industry of firms that specialize in doing just that. But there are some obvious inherent risks to doing things that way.

Yesterday, my Thai wife contacted Bangkok bank in phuket, asking to send 2 million baht to my mother back in Sweden.(60.000$)

Forget it !!

If the purpose would be to let's say, buy an apartment,

she will need documents proofing the purchase sent from Sweden !

Not only that, they have to be in her name as well.

If the purpose would be for support, 2 million wouldn't be accepted,

as they think it's to much !

Furthermore, they said, nowadays you need to proof what the money is to be used for, no matter what the amount.

This information received from both TMB and Bangkok bank as of yesterday.

Edited March 21, 2007 by sabajja