How to apply for a one-year marriage extension of stay

[Bill Miller]

I keep reading about a "one year extension of stay". I have been going to Savan., Laos, and getting a new non "O" visa each year.
Have I been wasting time and resources doing this, when I could go to immigration at Jomtien and get an extension instead?
Somebody please help an old, disabled guy here. I have done endless (it seems) searches, and keep getting page after page of irrelevant stuff to wade through. I had a stroke this past March, which makes a lot of reading difficult, and my Thai partner is, like, "I don't understand why you need to do this..." 
Neither do I, waan jai! ????
 "My Thai wife stubbornly refused to believe me until I took her to Immigration and she heard if from the horse's mouth." Thanks, Cusanas. Just so! ????
Give me a "1,2,3" precis, or a link to the article with the current, applicable info. Please.
I did, after all, join "Thai Visa" on the assumption that I would find what I needed. Navigation is not easy! ????

Edited November 18, 2018 by Bill Miller

[Maestro]

@Bill Miller   You were off topic with your post in the other thread and therefore I have split it off to create this new topic.

[Maestro]

@Bill Miller  What immigration office do you use?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Bill, here's an Adobe PDF document that Ubon Joe, our resident expert here, put together on marriage extension requirements.

 

0 Thai Marriage Extension Reqs 2018 from UbonJoe.pdf

 

Also, you should get advice from members who live in/use the Jomtien Immigration office, and some offices have their own individual takes on rules, such as requiring some extra things or certain numbers of copies or other niggling details.

 

Also, you didn't mention your nationality or when you might be applying for a marriage extension.

 

If you're an American, Brit, Aussie or Dane, you're probably aware that those countries' embassies in Thailand are ceasing to issue income letters used to document the 40,000 baht per month in income that's one of the available financial requirements (the other being 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least two months prior to applying).

 

If you're planning to use the Thai bank deposit approach, then nothing's changing. If you're planning to use the monthly income method, the specifics on the phasing out of the income letters varies by country/embassy. Thai Immigration is supposed to accept the letters for 6 months after they're issued, but whether that's going to remain the case for Americans, Brits and Aussies heading into 2019 seems a bit uncertain.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

@Bill Miller   You were off topic with your post in the other thread and therefore I have split it off to create this new topic.

Thanks so much.
I use Jomtien as my "home" IO.
I tried to do something in Bkk a couple of years ago, but they said "Oh, no. You live in Sattahip area. Must go to Jomtien." 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Thanks so much.
I use Jomtien as my "home" IO.
I tried to do something in Bkk a couple of years ago, but they said "Oh, no. You live in Sattahip area. Must go to Jomtien." 

 

For extensions of stay, I believe, you generally have to apply at the Immigration office that has jurisdiction for where you're living. You don't get to "shop" for the most cooperative office.

 

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Bill, here's an Adobe PDF document that Ubon Joe, our resident expert here, put together on marriage extension requirements.

 

0 Thai Marriage Extension Reqs 2018 from UbonJoe.pdf

 

Also, you should get advice from members who live in/use the Jomtien Immigration office, and some offices have their own individual takes on rules, such as requiring some extra things or certain numbers of copies or other niggling details.

 

Also, you didn't mention your nationality or when you might be applying for a marriage extension.

 

If you're an American, Brit, Aussie or Dane, you're probably aware that those countries' embassies in Thailand are ceasing to issue income letters used to document the 40,000 baht per month in income that's one of the available financial requirements (the other being 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least two months prior to applying).

 

If you're planning to use the Thai bank deposit approach, then nothing's changing. If you're planning to use the monthly income method, the specifics on the phasing out of the income letters varies by country/embassy. Thai Immigration is supposed to accept the letters for 6 months after they're issued, but whether that's going to remain the case for Americans, Brits and Aussies heading into 2019 seems a bit uncertain.

 

 

 

Thanks so much.
I am a Yank, and as to when is in her bailiwick. She would like to do the deed in the US, but has been turned down twice for a visitor visa.
I think it might be easier if we got hitched here, then get a spousal visa. Original intent was just to show my "pal" some of the sights, but somewhere along the way we decided we like to hangout on a more permanent basis.????
I have been here four years on a retirement basis, using an affidavit from the US Embassy, and getting a new visa from Savannakhet. 
Just checked on line, and have 77,000 + baht/month showing as deposited in my Thai bank for  the past three months. I hope they figure some way to accept that as more solid proof than my dubious, farang sworn affidavit.
statement. 800,000 would be tough to put all in one pot.400,000 easier, if she will consent to marry here. She has been filled with horror stories about women unable to inherit because they were married here. I am fairly certain that this is due to insufficient care to the legalities of a proper will.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As a fellow American, you can still get a new income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy in BKK until the end of 2018. And it certainly would be valid with Thai Immigration through the end of 2018.

 

Under Immigration's longstanding policy, those affidavits are supposed to be accepted by them up to 6 months after issue, meaning the latest validity date for a late December U.S. Embassy affidavit should be the end of June 2019.

 

HOWEVER, it remains unclear whether Thai Immigration is going to continue to honor that 6 month validity period for affidavits from the several embassies that are ceasing to issue them. So, any Immigration application by an American based on the affidavit during 2018 should be fine, any during the 6 month period is uncertain at present, and anything beyond mid-2019 almost certainly won't be allowed to use a U.S. Embassy affidavit.

 

The unfortunate part at present is, no one really knows what if anything Immigration is going to accept for Americans going into 2019 in the way of proving monthly income. The Embassy has said monthly deposits to a Thai bank account should be accepted. But Thai Immigration has yet to publicly confirm that thus far. So at the moment, the only certain financial approach into 2019 and beyond is the 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account for the financial part of a marriage extension of stay application.

 

Depending on how soon you plan or need to apply to Immigration, it's possible that some public policy statement will be forthcoming from Immigration in the coming weeks/months to clarify matters, but no one knows if or when right now. So that's what we know and don't know regarding marriage based extensions of stay by Americans.

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[otherstuff1957]

10 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

She has been filled with horror stories about women unable to inherit because they were married here. I am fairly certain that this is due to insufficient care to the legalities of a proper will.


20 years ago this would have been a concern.   Since 1997 (I think) the laws have been amended so that Thai women who are married to foreigners have the same rights as any other Thai woman.

[Justin Side]

11 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

 She has been filled with horror stories about women unable to inherit because they were married here. I am fairly certain that this is due to insufficient care to the legalities of a proper will.

 

She will lose absolutely nothing by marrying you.

In fact she will probably have the kudos of having a western husband.

[Wallander4]

Jomtien Immigration is a nightmare with Extension based on marriage - I have done it a few times but will change to retirement extension now since you are treated as a criminal when you apply for marriage extension 

[Carlosm]

Can someone post an example of a Kor Ror 2 for me, or PM me a copy, so i can take it to my Amphur, they're not too sharp at my local Amphur.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Carlosm said:

Can someone post an example of a Kor Ror 2 for me, or PM me a copy, so i can take it to my Amphur, they're not too sharp at my local Amphur.

The will know what it is. Easy for your wife to get it by just showing here ID and completing a form.

Screenshot ot the top of one. Note the number on the right side.

 

[JackThompson]

13 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Thanks so much.
I use Jomtien as my "home" IO.
I tried to do something in Bkk a couple of years ago, but they said "Oh, no. You live in Sattahip area. Must go to Jomtien." 

My advise on Jomtien for marriage-based extensions (assuming you do get married - a necessary pre-requisite):

• Be sure you have a TM-30 submitted.
• I hope you own your own condo, because if you rent, you will need a stack of documents from your landlord to show at the family-based-extension desk - more than is required for the TM-30 desk.  This may involve the landlord going to an amphoe to get fresh documents.
• Unless your landlord will comply, you then have two choices if in the jurisdiction of the Jomtien office:
  • A Non-O-ME Visa from Savannakhet, with same-day-return border-bounces every 90-days.  That is still easier than having to apply for Non-O Visas based on retirement every 90-days.
  • Pay an agent 25K Baht to get the extension.  The clawing for agent-money is why they make the process difficult in the first place - to extort money from you for an honest, valid extension application (note - I've been through this personally at that office). 

 

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You don't get to "shop" for the most cooperative office. 

This is true - unfortunately.  The BKK/Chang Wattana office is reported as being professional - a vast improvement over many local offices, including Jomtien for Non-O stamps and Thai-family-based extensions.

[Carlosm]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

The will know what it is. Easy for your wife to get it by just showing here ID and completing a form.

Screenshot ot the top of one. Note the number on the right side.

 

Thanks for that !

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

A Non-O-ME Visa from Savannakhet, with same-day-return border-bounces every 90-days.  That is still easier than having to apply for Non-O Visas based on retirement every 90-days.

Just to clarify, as I think this could be misunderstood: Don't have to " apply for Non-O Visas based on retirement every 90-days." Once a year works.
I decided a couple of years ago to "bag it" with Jomtien after an effort to extort 16,000 baht, pre "Big Joke", over the newly enforced residency rules. I get a new non "O" multi entry at Savan, and do a "bounce" every 90 days at whatever neighboring nation tickles our fancy. 
Ongoing story about the residency thing; ny landlady lives in Europe somewhere, I think Germany. My waan jai found the condo for me, and did all the negotiating, etc., with a delightful young real estate gal. Problems? The lease was in Thai, and signed by my nearest and dearest. TM 30? What's that?
Decided to "unscrew the inscrutables" in all this. A very helpful woman at the Juristic office cobbled up a lease agreement in my name, and for a 500 baht fee went to Jomtien on my behalf, settled the 1,600 baht TM 30 fine, and brought me back the appropriate receipts, forms, etc.
They would not give me a copy of the "lease", which I guess is a sort of phony, anyhow, the real owner never being present in all this. The gal did it all as an  "agent in situ". I don't mind as we have been paying month to month for half a year anyway. Just happy to have the TM 30.
Anyone know if Jomtien will accept that for a residence certificate? Might just want to get a driver's license, however much I grit my teeth when on the roads here.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Bill Miller

[Maestro]

54 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

...My waan jai...

What does "waan jai" mean in the context of your post? Google Translate guesses that it is Hindi but gives no meaningful English translation.

 

[Bill Miller]

39 minutes ago, Maestro said:

What does "waan jai" mean in the context of your post? Google Translate guesses that it is Hindi but gives no meaningful English translation.

 

It is a Paiboon romanization I have seen for 

 

หวานใจ, meaning "sweetheart". ????

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

A very helpful woman at the Juristic office cobbled up a lease agreement in my name, and for a 500 baht fee went to Jomtien on my behalf, settled the 1,600 baht TM 30 fine, and brought me back the appropriate receipts, forms, etc.

The problem you will face, if you tried to get an extension based on marriage, is that the "family desk" will first demand you have a TM-30 (which you do), but then demand another batch of landlord-docs, because you rent. 

 

The "Landlord Docs" the family-desk will demand (unless something changed) include (but may not be limited to):

 - Landlord's ID

 - Landlords Tabien Bahn

 - Rental-location Tabien Bahn

 - Rental-location Chanote (if condo, shows dimensions of the condo, purchase-by landlord, etc)

 - Rental Contract / Lease

 

Copies of all the above must be signed by the landlord.  Docs from the juristic person or lease-agent will be refused.  Add to the above, everything on the helpful list posted on this site, which works at Chang Wattana, and some other offices.

 

So if your landlord is absent and/or cannot deliver all the above, you are toast, unless you pay them off with an agent-submitted app with brown-envelope.  Even if you supply the whole list (as I did), they may start asking for "new copies from the amphoe" of things you have supplied, and you end up with a Non-O-ME, anyway.

 

My lesson learned was this: They don't really care if your marriage is legit, or you have the required funds, etc - that is just for show.  The agent-application will bypass all that.  A certain fraction of applicants are allowed to do "honest" applications for show, while the rest are shaken-down.

 

If anyone has an "on paper only" marriage, it is clear how they get a permitted-stay in Thailand.  The crook's agent will get red-carpet treatment, while honest applicants have their Thai wife questioned like a traitor/criminal, then denied, anyway.  This is why, when people say "expats" are causing "crackdowns," I must disagree - this could not be farther from the truth.  The only "crackdown" that would do any good at all, would be internal, and would be targeting all of the largest offices in Thailand.  Somehow, I don't think that's likely to happen. Easier to keep blaming the foreigners.

Edited November 19, 2018 by JackThompson

[ocddave]

Ok, in UbonJoe's PDF it states Bank Book, which I believe has to be stamped the day of the visit to the Immigration Office? But the more important question, what is this letter from the bank, what am I asking them for that satisfies the Immigration Officer?

[maxcorrigan]

6 minutes ago, ocddave said:

Ok, in UbonJoe's PDF it states Bank Book, which I believe has to be stamped the day of the visit to the Immigration Office? But the more important question, what is this letter from the bank, what am I asking them for that satisfies the Immigration Officer?

The bank will know exactly what is required i believe they are pre printed and the bank just fills in the details, you won't have any problem!

[Maestro]

7 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

It is a Paiboon romanization I have seen for 

 

หวานใจ, meaning "sweetheart". ????

Thank you. In future, please use English only.

[Bill Miller]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:08 PM, JackThompson said:

The problem you will face, if you tried to get an extension based on marriage, is that the "family desk" will first demand you have a TM-30 (which you do), but then demand another batch of landlord-docs, because you rent. 

I did not quote the entire discussion, for brevity's sake.
Do you think the same would apply if I go for a one year extension based on retirement? The juristic gal seemed very certain that the TM 30 should suffice.
Maybe have to go back to 90 day border hops, and yearly visa renewal at Savan.?

 

[Maestro]

Removed some off-topic posts.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

I did not quote the entire discussion, for brevity's sake.
Do you think the same would apply if I go for a one year extension based on retirement? The juristic gal seemed very certain that the TM 30 should suffice.
Maybe have to go back to 90 day border hops, and yearly visa renewal at Savan.?

The retirement desk will not want more than a TM-30 - and are even "light" in enforcement of that.  It's a night-and-day difference in attitude in the Jomtien office between those 2 desks.

 

I ended up getting a Non-O-ME (marriage) Visa, because I was a renter - and under-50, so retirement not an option.

[Bill Miller]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The retirement desk will not want more than a TM-30 - and are even "light" in enforcement of that.  It's a night-and-day difference in attitude in the Jomtien office between those 2 desks.

 

I ended up getting a Non-O-ME (marriage) Visa, because I was a renter - and under-50, so retirement not an option.

Thanks! I will give it a go on the retirement angle. I think the marriage deal may wait until we settle in a different, less hostile IO environment anyway. If there is such.☺️ 

[dragons70]

On 11/19/2018 at 3:05 PM, Bill Miller said:

Just to clarify, as I think this could be misunderstood: Don't have to " apply for Non-O Visas based on retirement every 90-days." Once a year works.
I decided a couple of years ago to "bag it" with Jomtien after an effort to extort 16,000 baht, pre "Big Joke", over the newly enforced residency rules. I get a new non "O" multi entry at Savan, and do a "bounce" every 90 days at whatever neighboring nation tickles our fancy. 
Ongoing story about the residency thing; ny landlady lives in Europe somewhere, I think Germany. My waan jai found the condo for me, and did all the negotiating, etc., with a delightful young real estate gal. Problems? The lease was in Thai, and signed by my nearest and dearest. TM 30? What's that?
Decided to "unscrew the inscrutables" in all this. A very helpful woman at the Juristic office cobbled up a lease agreement in my name, and for a 500 baht fee went to Jomtien on my behalf, settled the 1,600 baht TM 30 fine, and brought me back the appropriate receipts, forms, etc.
They would not give me a copy of the "lease", which I guess is a sort of phony, anyhow, the real owner never being present in all this. The gal did it all as an  "agent in situ". I don't mind as we have been paying month to month for half a year anyway. Just happy to have the TM 30.
Anyone know if Jomtien will accept that for a residence certificate? Might just want to get a driver's license, however much I grit my teeth when on the roads here.

For a 500 baht fee? 555... some call it being helpful, I call it corruption. 

[dragons70]

On 11/19/2018 at 10:58 AM, Wallander4 said:

Jomtien Immigration is a nightmare with Extension based on marriage - I have done it a few times but will change to retirement extension now since you are treated as a criminal when you apply for marriage extension 

Spot on. The Jomtien office is as corrupt as they come. They want to make it harder for one of 2 reasons 1) they hope we’ll get so frustrated with the ever changing rules that we use an agent, from whom they get kickbacks 2) They hope we change to a retirement visa. It’s easier for them, and puts a potential 800,000 extra baht into Thai banks. 

 

I understand the need to weed out the fraudulent marriages, but making someone jump through more hoops after 10 years of marriage/playing their silly games, is just ridiculous...Jomtien immigration office is Thailand 1.0 at its worst, a Big Joke...

 

[dragons70]

On 11/19/2018 at 11:53 AM, JackThompson said:

My advise on Jomtien for marriage-based extensions (assuming you do get married - a necessary pre-requisite):

• Be sure you have a TM-30 submitted.
• I hope you own your own condo, because if you rent, you will need a stack of documents from your landlord to show at the family-based-extension desk - more than is required for the TM-30 desk.  This may involve the landlord going to an amphoe to get fresh documents.
• Unless your landlord will comply, you then have two choices if in the jurisdiction of the Jomtien office:
  • A Non-O-ME Visa from Savannakhet, with same-day-return border-bounces every 90-days.  That is still easier than having to apply for Non-O Visas based on retirement every 90-days.
  • Pay an agent 25K Baht to get the extension.  The clawing for agent-money is why they make the process difficult in the first place - to extort money from you for an honest, valid extension application (note - I've been through this personally at that office). 

 

This is true - unfortunately.  The BKK/Chang Wattana office is reported as being professional - a vast improvement over many local offices, including Jomtien for Non-O stamps and Thai-family-based extensions.

Your point about the agent money extortion is spot on ????. Big Joke, in his new corporate statement on the Jomtien immigration website, says there’ll be ‘standardisation’ of processes/regulations across all immigration offices. Not holding my breath...

[Bill Miller]

38 minutes ago, dragons70 said:

For a 500 baht fee? 555... some call it being helpful, I call it corruption. 

I think you misunderstood, or I did not explain clearly.
This was not an IO person, but a lady from the condo office who took the time and drove 25 kilometers to Jomtien to help me out. Not, I think, a normal part of a commercial concern's duties. 
I appreciated her help, and did throw in a tip. ????